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Peoples ASCAP checks dropping 50%+ Pitch & Harmony Plugins
Old 4 weeks ago
  #61
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P View Post
Right. That's why it's so odd.

I noticed immediately from the November 2017 Distribution to the February 2018 Distribution but thought that it might be a reporting anomaly, so I figured I'd wait a quarter or two before reporting it to ASCAP.

At this point, it's been a full 4 quarters of significant decline each quarter.

It's just bizarre.
Weird.

I had a few minutes, and just checked my ASCAP statements for percentage changes. I didn't do Int; the past two years, those are consistently within a few hundred $, making the change (up or down) relatively insignificant.

Here's Dom:

1/17 > 1/18: -49%

4/17 > 4/18: +182%

7/17 > 7/18: -11%

10/17 > 10/18 +19%

1/18 > 1/19: +8%

Overall, the '18 royalty amt was up 5%

Cheers.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #62
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Today of course is the big BMI day.....

Royalties down 30% over this quarter last year. I must say that this quarter last year was GOOD though....

Lowest payout in 11 quarters - since 2016.

Good news for me is that Netflix (not any of the other streamers though) paid out an actual REAL amount. Wild. I think I know why. One of the series I have over a hundred shows in is always on the "popular" areas of Netflix.

Same ol, same ol......
Old 4 weeks ago
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Weird.

I had a few minutes, and just checked my ASCAP statements for percentage changes. I didn't do Int; the past two years, those are consistently within a few hundred $, making the change (up or down) relatively insignificant.
Thanks, Jeff!

My Domestic Royalties have stayed consistent with ASCAP. Based on Episode additions each quarter, I've been able to reasonable predict a Revenue "Floor" for for each quarter in the past 5 years. There have been quarters in which it far exceeded the "Floor" but fortunately, it hasn't slipped below that number.

The Foreign piece is where it became wonky last year.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Today of course is the big BMI day.....

Royalties down 30% over this quarter last year. I must say that this quarter last year was GOOD though....

Lowest payout in 11 quarters - since 2016.

Good news for me is that Netflix (not any of the other streamers though) paid out an actual REAL amount. Wild. I think I know why. One of the series I have over a hundred shows in is always on the "popular" areas of Netflix.

Same ol, same ol......
Streaming is so weird. There are quarters in which I'll receive a healthy chunk of streaming royalties but most quarters it's zero.

And here's a quirk that many of you may or may not experience: I swear, and I'm not exaggerating, every stinkin' time I hear my music on TV, whether it's Cable or Network or Streaming, I never receive royalties for those performances and have to follow up with publishers and ASCAP.

Most recently, I was doing my taxes in September and had Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee on while working and heard a 45 second cue of mine in the Jay Leno episode, which first aired in Season 3. I checked my ASCAP database and nope, not a single penny. I checked ASCAP for a Cue Sheet and nope, no cue sheet.

That's just another thing I need to follow up on with them. It's maddening.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #65
Today's BMI statement was pretty normal ... outside of what seems to be missing cue sheets for an entire show I'm pretty sure is (still) using my cue for most of its music. It's been worth a good chunk of change in past quarters, so that's gonna be fun to chase down.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P View Post
Streaming is so weird. There are quarters in which I'll receive a healthy chunk of streaming royalties but most quarters it's zero.

And here's a quirk that many of you may or may not experience: I swear, and I'm not exaggerating, every stinkin' time I hear my music on TV, whether it's Cable or Network or Streaming, I never receive royalties for those performances and have to follow up with publishers and ASCAP.

Most recently, I was doing my taxes in September and had Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee on while working and heard a 45 second cue of mine in the Jay Leno episode, which first aired in Season 3. I checked my ASCAP database and nope, not a single penny. I checked ASCAP for a Cue Sheet and nope, no cue sheet.

That's just another thing I need to follow up on with them. It's maddening.
I feel you frustration. I actually have cue sheets with ASCAP and have not been paid for music on 11 TV series. I filed 11 member inquiries. I expect to be told “no royalties will be paid due to music not falling within the survey” or some other BS.


Hey, at least streaming royalties are growing!



Old 4 weeks ago
  #67
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Ukiah Bass's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P View Post
Streaming is so weird. There are quarters in which I'll receive a healthy chunk of streaming royalties but most quarters it's zero.

And here's a quirk that many of you may or may not experience: I swear, and I'm not exaggerating, every stinkin' time I hear my music on TV, whether it's Cable or Network or Streaming, I never receive royalties for those performances and have to follow up with publishers and ASCAP.

Most recently, I was doing my taxes in September and had Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee on while working and heard a 45 second cue of mine in the Jay Leno episode, which first aired in Season 3. I checked my ASCAP database and nope, not a single penny. I checked ASCAP for a Cue Sheet and nope, no cue sheet.

That's just another thing I need to follow up on with them. It's maddening.

Reports like this one suggest the PROs are not being completely honest with their reporting. Maybe, instead of a new PRO, writers need to create algorithms that can check on their PRO's(s') algorithms.

This type of electronically and automatically checking some digital process is mainstream in other areas. Algorithms on YouTube can almost immediately spot unlicensed use of music. Online trading systems are automatically adjusting for price difference in securities. Online retailers are constantly checking each other's websites for pricing; when one site changes a price minutely, the competitor's site immediately changes theirs. It's done with bots. More than half the traffic on the internet is from bots like these.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukiah Bass View Post
Maybe, instead of a new PRO, writers need to create algorithms that can check on their PRO's(s') algorithms.
If I knew how to do that, I would not write music. And I probably wouldn’t create an algorithm for musicians either. I’d be writing algorithms for where the big money is!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #69
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gsilbers's Avatar
 

still think streaming companies pay out too low.

i keep repeating this i know... but to give u an idea of why..

when disney/fox/sony license a tv show or a movie to netflix. those huge distribution companies with good sales poeple ask for a license fee based on how much revenue and or viewers will the show get by region. be it by ads or by on demand etc. so they based license fees accordigny.
it used ot be that streaming companies would not be a big deal... showing old movies and tv shows of bygone era etc.
but now... well.. things have changed.
so much so.. that the big movie studios license the same tv show or movie for the same amount of money for the same license period to both big bradcasters and netflix. (and netflix by region.. the same show gets a new license of also $100k per region, like germany, france etc)
For example they give a big broadcaster james bond (early ones) for say... $100k for a year and at the same time, give the same movie for the same licnese fee to netflix for the same period.
So the money is there... and both broadcaster and streaming is the same. there has to be the same amount of value given to that movie to make a return on that original license fee.
So why... if both netflix and a big briadcasters pay a license to show that movie that costs the same amount, which again, its based on value being brought by viewers then netflix and amazon etc pay much less royalties to composers for performance rights.
yes... ascap has mentioned to many composers its based on amount of views streamed.. which netflix doesnt give out. amazon does. but they calculate it based on their own calculation. they told bmi and ascap... we are paying per view X amount. and we have to say.. ok. im sure thats how it is.
so i think ascap/bmi are not too aware of the amount of license fees streaming giants pay.... or maybe they are already way too powerful. I understand that license fees and composer royalties are not related.... but ..shoudnt they if both are based on revenue per show?... and those are tied to how big of a network it is etc
Pretty sure there are other things missing in my comment... which is fine... i know i dont know much..i just know those facts i mentioned above. but still everyone keep seeing how amazon and netflix are making bank on profits and making their own huge tv and movie releases, can keep licensing marvel size movies and yet... all of us are..hmm... sooooooooo why are we getting peanuts?
so imo i think we just have to keep asking ascap and bmi and keep the pressure... cuz.. streaming is the future... and if those fees get low then it might be that it wil become the standard while tv stations go into live events.. or into streaming.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #70
Gear Maniac
 

I can't tell you how many times I have seen missed and unreported episodes of my cues on BMI. I call their offices and get forwarded to voicemail, without a return call.

Regarding streaming, I have a theory and it may not be popular. Do you think that Snoop Dog's production music division gets 1/34 of a cent for a streamed episode of ANY show? I seriously doubt it. I think there is a double standard and PRO's like BMI rip all of us off so they can pay BIGGER names, BIGGER money.




"And here's a quirk that many of you may or may not experience: I swear, and I'm not exaggerating, every stinkin' time I hear my music on TV, whether it's Cable or Network or Streaming, I never receive royalties for those performances and have to follow up with publishers and ASCAP.

Most recently, I was doing my taxes in September and had Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee on while working and heard a 45 second cue of mine in the Jay Leno episode, which first aired in Season 3. I checked my ASCAP database and nope, not a single penny. I checked ASCAP for a Cue Sheet and nope, no cue sheet.

That's just another thing I need to follow up on with them. It's maddening."
Old 3 weeks ago
  #71
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kclements's Avatar
 

Not sure if it will go anywhere, but the PMC is asking for Panel/Workshop suggestions. So I sent in one about holding the PROs accountable to composers and how we might get some answers to these questions. Maybe if enough people contact the PMA suggesting we talk about this, we can start a process of holding the PROs accountable?

naive, perhaps, but we need to start somewhere, no?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #72
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kclements View Post
Not sure if it will go anywhere, but the PMC is asking for Panel/Workshop suggestions. So I sent in one about holding the PROs accountable to composers and how we might get some answers to these questions. Maybe if enough people contact the PMA suggesting we talk about this, we can start a process of holding the PROs accountable?

naive, perhaps, but we need to start somewhere, no?
Post of the year.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #73
Gear Addict
 

Here's the PMC link to request the panel - PMC 2019 Panel Proposal
Old 3 weeks ago
  #74
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VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

I suggested a panel exploring the pros and cons of creating a new production music centered PRO. What are the chances of that panel happening?

"We'd, uh, like to thank the sponsors of this next panel... about creating a new PRO... uh, ASCAP and BMI! Thanks guys!"
Old 3 weeks ago
  #75
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
I suggested a panel exploring the pros and cons of creating a new production music centered PRO. What are the chances of that panel happening?

"We'd, uh, like to thank the sponsors of this next panel... about creating a new PRO... uh, ASCAP and BMI! Thanks guys!"
Maybe they'll host the panel at the ASCAP Expo! WRITE YOUR TRUTH!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #76
Gear Head
 
kclements's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFulford View Post
Post of the year.
It’s an honor just to be nominated
Old 3 weeks ago
  #77
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
I suggested a panel exploring the pros and cons of creating a new production music centered PRO. What are the chances of that panel happening?

"We'd, uh, like to thank the sponsors of this next panel... about creating a new PRO... uh, ASCAP and BMI! Thanks guys!"
Yeah i've been telling Hunter for a couple years now to talk to the PMA about starting a PMA PRO. He knows the ins and outs of how a PRO works, he worked for SESAC for years before moving over to the PMA and then to SourceAudio.

If they contact you about the panel, make sure you get him on as a panelist.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #78
Also, just FYI guys... they also look at how many times the same panel idea has been submitted by different people. If a bunch of people all submit the same basic premise, like "creating a new PRO for Production Music Libraries" then they are more likely to do it than if only one or two people submit the idea.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #79
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
Also, just FYI guys... they also look at how many times the same panel idea has been submitted by different people. If a bunch of people all submit the same basic premise, like "creating a new PRO for Production Music Libraries" then they are more likely to do it than if only one or two people submit the idea.

OK then... Enough time for talking....

Let's get the ball rolling. I'm in,

I just submitted :

TITLE :
Creating a new PRO for Production Music Composers / Publishers / Libraries

DESCRIPTION :
Exploring the possibility of a new PRO that will place production music as the primary focus of their endeavors -- aka -- Leaving ASCAP and BMI behind unless they change quickly.

PANELISTS :
I put down Hunter, as well as yourself, some of our mutual friends, and a couple of principal posters on this forum (you probably know who you are...)

I also mentioned that no, I would not organize or moderate the panel.


PLEASE GUYS!!! Send in something similar. If this gains traction, we might just change the world for those of us who primarily work / write production music!!!

If they have a panel like this - I WILL BE THERE!!!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #80
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFulford View Post
Here's the PMC link to request the panel - PMC 2019 Panel Proposal
Quoted for those who may have missed it. Thx John!


PS - I'm gunna keep bumping this thread if people don't join it. LOL
Old 3 weeks ago
  #81
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VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

Do you think it would be inappropriate to ask Doug Wood to be on a panel like this? (While we secretly ask him to head up the new PRO ) I think you'd have to have at least a couple of the biggest indie's represented- Joe Saba, Cassie Lord... maybe David Vanacore repping a different angle, etc. But it would also be great (and maybe essential) to have composers in the mix. I'm sure there are endless takes on this, from the major publishers to the lowliest of composers.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #82
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
Do you think it would be inappropriate to ask Doug Wood to be on a panel like this? (While we secretly ask him to head up the new PRO ) I think you'd have to have at least a couple of the biggest indie's represented- Joe Saba, Cassie Lord... maybe David Vanacore repping a different angle, etc. But it would also be great (and maybe essential) to have composers in the mix. I'm sure there are endless takes on this, from the major publishers to the lowliest of composers.
Agreed. No I don't think it inappropriate. Let's get some opinions going.

Where are all the regulars in this forum who stand to benefit HUGELY from a production music PRO??

Do I have to bump this again? I'll do it!!!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #83
I'm pretty sure that PROs don't payout based on actual numbers and don't claim to.

If you go back to when the first started, it was logistically impossible to do that. The data for TV shows etc was kept by hand, and there were also all of the club licensing fees. So they came up with a formula for calculating payouts and it's probably never changed.

Radio has probably always been possible to keep close to accurate records. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that a given song's percentage of plays in clubs is very similar to its percentage of plays on the radio.

When you go back far enough, more TV shows had live band or staff composers so they would have owned the compositions and recordings.


I'd bet that there was a point where their formula was pretty close to accurate, but as technology has changed, they haven't revised the formula. When you consider that there have always been huge chunks of money going to the publishers, they're the ones who are going to be most resistant to the PROs becoming a fact based accounting service as opposed to a formula based licensing service.


And if you really think about it, if they move to watermarking and are just an accounting service, the PROs can be replaced by an app, so there's really no incentive for the PROs to move away from a formula.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #84
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
but as technology has changed, they haven't revised the formula. When you consider that there have always been huge chunks of money going to the publishers, they're the ones who are going to be most resistant to the PROs becoming a fact based accounting service as opposed to a formula based licensing service.


And if you really think about it, if they move to watermarking and are just an accounting service, the PROs can be replaced by an app, so there's really no incentive for the PROs to move away from a formula.
Actually, publishers of production based music make pretty much exactly what the composers make. It's a 100% / 100% split. That said, yeah, they could almost be replaced by an app - although they would need someone to monitor things and watermark the music, etc..

But yes. It's time for a change.

Anyone else put in a request to the PMC for a panel on "new kind of PRO focused on production music?" Come on guys. Don't make me bump this again.

Here you go : PMC 2019 Panel Proposal
Old 3 weeks ago
  #85
Gear Head
 
kclements's Avatar
 

I put my request in.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #86
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VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Actually, publishers of production based music make pretty much exactly what the composers make. It's a 100% / 100% split. That said, yeah, they could almost be replaced by an app - although they would need someone to monitor things and watermark the music, etc..

But yes. It's time for a change.

Anyone else put in a request to the PMC for a panel on "new kind of PRO focused on production music?" Come on guys. Don't make me bump this again.

Here you go : PMC 2019 Panel Proposal
Gotta say, I like what you're doing here, Bill. I like it a lot!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #87
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
Gotta say, I like what you're doing here, Bill. I like it a lot!
Thanks Vita. I wish more would sign on to the vision....

Hey where's @Jeff Hayat ? He should be all over this....
Old 3 weeks ago
  #88
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Thanks Vita. I wish more would sign on to the vision....

Hey where's @Jeff Hayat ? He should be all over this....
Front and center. What is it you need me to do?

-- edit -- fill out that form, and request that PMC form a production music PRO?

Last edited by Jeff Hayat; 3 weeks ago at 08:13 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #89
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Front and center. What is it you need me to do?

-- edit -- fill out that form, and request that PMC form a production music PRO?





Yes. Go ahead and petition the PMC to put on a panel discussing the possibilities of creating a production music oriented PRO. Use your own words.

If we all get on this, maybe it can start to gain some traction and possibly, just possibly, the existing PRO's, or maybe a new PRO, will take production music seriously, and our royalties will start coming out like they should.

THANKS JEFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone else care about their royalties?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #90
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Anyone else care about their royalties?
I do.
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