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COMPOSERS: Problem with sample purveyor [Public Service Announcement]
Old 11th September 2019
  #331
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnysota View Post
Hello etch, the reason why libraries are pulling out tracks that use splice loops is because too many cues/tracks that are submitted are using the same loop not because they come from splice. And this is 100% accurate information I received from a certain Music library. That's why I always encourage producers to chop,alter the loops and samples the best they can to avoid having their work rejected.
Yes, it isn’t that difficult to chop these things up. But some people figure “I bought it, so I’ll use it however I want”.

In a way, I feel that libraries can’t complain too much. Most pay nothing for the cues they get from composers. If the library makes no investment in the product, why do they expect the composer to foot the bill for unique sounds for every project?

On the other hand, composers should be trying to up their game and use better tools and do unique things with the samples they get. It does help to stand out amongst the torrent of other music out there.
Old 11th September 2019
  #332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
Yes, it isn’t that difficult to chop these things up. But some people figure “I bought it, so I’ll use it however I want”.

In a way, I feel that libraries can’t complain too much. Most pay nothing for the cues they get from composers. If the library makes no investment in the product, why do they expect the composer to foot the bill for unique sounds for every project?

On the other hand, composers should be trying to up their game and use better tools and do unique things with the samples they get. It does help to stand out amongst the torrent of other music out there.
Exactly!!! +1000

I went to a Guild of Music Supervisors event once where they had 5 different music sup's up on stage... I remember one of the guys was from MTV and he was saying that he can tell when a new sample pack comes out, because he'll get hundreds upon hundreds of the same exact sounds/loops in all these different compositions from different composers.

He get's hundreds upon hundreds of submissions a day for the shows he is working on.... he tries to get through as many as he can... he might listen to at least the first 5 to 20 seconds of 500 to 800 tracks in a day, almost every day!!!! So all the people using the same apple loops, splice loops, big fish audio loops, etc and everyone using the same kits and patches from Toontrack, Native Instruments, EastWest, etc all start to sound literally the same. He might not know the name of the sample pack, but he said he can definitely recognize them... and it makes everything sound homogenized and kind of bland... he said the tracks that stand out and get his attention as he is going down the list auditioning, are the ones that definitely sound different and unique compared to everyone else.

A lot of the library tracks I get hired to work on, even if we use samples, also have live elements that I (or someone else) track and mix, which adds a unique "signature" sound to each piece that separates it from everything else.
Old 26th September 2019
  #333
Gear Nut
 

well damn

BYEEEE splice
Old 2 weeks ago
  #334
Here for the gear
 
broadcastdeath's Avatar
 

I contacted Splice, and...

One of my emails to them:

Quote:
Hi Abbie,

Thank you for getting back to me.

I understand I don't own the samples, this isn't a buy out. Same as I
didn't own the sample CD's back in the day when that was a thing. Other
people paid for the same product, I can't sue them if they used the same
breakbeat for example.

So just so I can be clear, if I compose a song, that song features a
sample of a guitar loop I've downloaded from splice, but it's
incorporated into my production, do we need to agree a royalty split if
that composition is used in an advert or is used by a film maker for
their Netflix documentary?

I'm really hoping that isn't the case, because I've been a long time
user, and I'm kinda missing logging in everyday and seeing what's new :D

Thanks again,

Dan
Splice response:

Quote:
Hi again,

If you compose a song that features a sample from Splice Sounds and that song is used on Netflix or in a commercial, it's still Royalty Free.

Best Regards,

Brandon
Splice Customer Experience
Old 1 week ago
  #335
Gear Nut
 
Lilbroz's Avatar
 

The terms of use for Sounds was recently updated. Splice certainly makes it seem like you can use them commercially as long as it's not standing alone or "un-edited".

Your Use of Sounds
Sounds are licensed, not sold, to you. We grant you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, perpetual right to use Sounds you obtain through Splice Sounds in combination with other sounds in music productions to create new recordings. This means that you may modify, reproduce, publicly perform, distribute, transmit, communicate to the public, sublicense and otherwise use Sounds, including for commercial purposes. However, you may not (a) use or sublicense the Sounds in isolation as sound effects, loops, or as source material for any other form of sample (even if you modify the Sounds), (b) use or sublicense Sounds in a manner competitive to Company or its licensors, (c), sublicense, sell, loan, share, lend, broadcast, rent, lease, assign, distribute, or transfer all of the Sounds to a third party except as incorporated into a new music production; or (d) redistribute Sounds in new sample packs. Additionally, for clarity, you may not use the name, image, or likeness of the artist associated with a Sound in any way without that artist’s express written permission.

Ownership
You do not own the copyright in the Sound, and if you submit a takedown notice to any third party sites for a work you create using a Sound, then you are responsible for ensuring that such takedown notice is not being issued for a different work on the basis that the different work includes the same Sound. Submitting a takedown notice in violation of The Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 (the “DMCA”) may subject you to liability for damages under Section 512(f) of the U.S. Copyright Act.
Old 4 days ago
  #336
Gear Head
 

Gothic Storm sent this out...


Hi to all our writers

Recently we’ve had an admin and reputation problem caused by exposed ready-made loops in our music, from companies like

splice.com

Companies that sell these loops include:

• Splice
• Black Octopus
• Output Arcade
• Sounds.com
• Loopmasters
• Noiiz


Here’s the problem: if our composer uses a loop but other publishers and commercial pop producers use the same loop, there is a tune recognition clash where software including YouTube, Soundmouse and Tunesat detect a clash. Then, we are told by our sub publishers
around the world that we are infringing copyright and they proactively remove our material from sale.

Then, I have to find out where the loop came from and prove both that it’s from a commercial sample library and that the EULA allows the loop to be exposed on its own in this way.

This takes a lot of time, and causes admin problems for everyone: us, sub publishers and clients. It could also cause lost income, and worst for me is it causes reputation damage. This is because ready-made loops are seen as an inferior and cheap way to create
music compared to having great producers who can record their own amazing sounds without ready made loops.

IS THIS A LEGAL PROBLEM?

Mostly no, it’s an admin and reputation problem for us.

However I have heard stories about one of these companies not vetting the source of their samples well and selling loops that infringe copyright.

WHAT ABOUT PERCUSSION OR BURIED LAYERS OR SINGLE HIT SAMPLES?

Layers such as percussion loops buried in the mix are fine.

Single hit samples are also fine.

The real problem is just musical hook loops, especially when they are prominent in the mix.

WHAT ABOUT PREVIOUS TRACKS THAT HAVE THESE LOOPS?

Don’t worry. We can deal with these problems by telling people they are from sample libraries. The hassle of removing music from our library is worse than the hassle of tune recognition clashes so this is just a new rule from now.

WHAT ABOUT LOOPS ON STEMS?

If you have loops fairly buried in the mix that’s ok but never deliver them to us isolated on a stem. Always make sure your stems blend more than one sound together through the entire duration of the stem.

Doing this will avoid infringing the End User License Agreements (EULAs) of most sample libraries.

NEW CONTRACTS FROM NOW:

From now our writer agreements will include a request to never have sample library loops exposed (totally isolated or very prominent) in a mix. They will also request you to never deliver stems with unlayered sample library loops.

NEW CLAUSES HERE:

Here’s the new clauses we are adding to our writer agreements:

[The Writer ensures:]

(i) That if the Writer is using any third party sample library ‘loops’ (short licensed recordings of musical or rhythmical material), they are heavily layered or disguised so as not to be clearly recognisable by an expert listener or Tune Recognition software
(such as Tunesat or YouTube ContentID).

(j) That if the Writer is using any third party sample library ‘loops’ (short licensed recordings of musical or rhythmical material), they are never delivered to the Publisher in isolation in ‘stems’ (separate layers of sound which added together create a full
mix), but instead throughout the entire duration of the stem are layered together with at least one other sound.

BEST ADVICE: NO LOOPS!

The simplest approach you can take is to never use any sample library loops, but if you do, stick to rhythmical loops which cause far fewer tune recognition clash problems.

Thanks!

Dan
Old 4 days ago
  #337
Lives for gear
 

I'm thinking of starting a "loop" company with a flagrantly composer-friendly, easy to read EULA. Complete with MIDI files for each loop so musicians can adjust key/tempo/progression easily..

Would this be something yall would be interested in??
Old 4 days ago
  #338
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFulford View Post
I'm thinking of starting a "loop" company with a flagrantly composer-friendly, easy to read EULA. Complete with MIDI files for each loop so musicians can adjust key/tempo/progression easily..

Would this be something yall would be interested in??
Sounds like a good idea. But some people will not adjust key/tempo/progression. They will use the samples as is and say “I made a hit record!”.

What happens then?
Old 4 days ago
  #339
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
Sounds like a good idea. But some people will not adjust key/tempo/progression. They will use the samples as is and say “I made a hit record!”.

What happens then?
That would be really cool!
Old 4 days ago
  #340
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFulford View Post
That would be really cool!
Well, go for it. I would love to hear what you come up with. Do you plan on selling sample packs on Splice, ADSR Sounds, and other sites?
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