The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
still the owner of the master/recordings if using samples? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 11th December 2018
  #1
Gear Nut
 

still the owner of the master/recordings if using samples?

hi,

this forum is my 1st choise when in doubt about something music/licensing related
or in search of info

very informative
and grat people too

this is my question:

could you still claim ownership of the master/recordings of your own original composition if you are using 100% royalty free samples in the production process?

thanks
Mike
Old 12th December 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Barring the rare exception where the EULAs might restrict this*, the answer to your Q is yes. Once you create original content with samples to which you have purchased a license to use, that content is 100% yours, and the sample lib company has no claim. The rights and ownership of the original sample content, however, remain with the sample lib company.

*Best Service (--edit-- might be BigFish instead) has some weird stipulation in their EULA, which requires you to get permission to use some of their sample content for some purposes. There might be others who do this, but BS is the only one I know of.

Last edited by Jeff Hayat; 14th December 2018 at 03:02 PM..
Old 13th December 2018
  #3
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
*Best Service has some weird stipulation in their EULA, which requires you to get permission to use some of their sample content for some purposes. There might be others who do this, but BS is the only one I know of.
Hey Jeff - was wondering if Best Service may have changed their EULA? I have a couple of their sample libraries and they appear to have a standard EULA.

I emailed them directly about the sample libraries I have and they said this EULA is valid since they never came with any documents.

Another library I have found that don't allow their samples for production music without securing special permission is Big Fish. I have a few of their libraries from many years back and sent them a list which they gave the green light on. They got back in a couple of days.

The other company I found to be unclear about using their samples in library/production music is Producer Loops. All the third party sample libraries they sell have their own EULA depending on the company but I found some of the the actual Producer Loops libraries stated in the EULA that you could not use them in Production/Library music, while other libraries from their catalogue didn't mention it. It seemed totally random so I emailed them and they said that I could in fact use them...

The other issue I've found is when supplying stems. Each company I've contacted seems to have a slightly different take on this. Some are like 'sure go for it, it's standard industry practice' while others like Spectrasonics require you to layer something under any of their sounds so nothing is isolated in the stem. If in doubt you essentially need to run it past their licensing department.

It would be great to have a database of companies that really allow freedom to use their samples in all commercial music including library/production music and also allow stems without layering.

John Fulford has a great video on his channel where he talks about the importance of checking the EULA for each sample library bought. It would be awesome to know if there are any companies that anyone knows of that have potentially complicated EULAs.
Old 14th December 2018
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekkle View Post
Another library I have found that don't allow their samples for production music without securing special permission is Big Fish.
AHHHH - might be BF and not BS - I might be confused. Sorry!

And yeah, stems can be a problem. One of the libs I do work for recently added this to their delivery req:

NO submix can contain a single loop from a sample library on its own. Any individual samples or loops need to be layered with another element. For example: If a Damage drum loop is by itself in a DRUM ONLY mix please add a shaker to it or some booms or another loop, etc.

That's a publisher talking - not a sample lib dev. Makes sense; I guess they don't want any ELUA issues.

But I think it should in fact be up to the composer to make sure that they don't leave anything exposed in a stem.

Cheers.
Old 14th December 2018
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
One of the libs I do work for recently added this to their delivery req:

NO submix can contain a single loop from a sample library on its own. Any individual samples or loops need to be layered with another element. For example: If a Damage drum loop is by itself in a DRUM ONLY mix please add a shaker to it or some booms or another loop, etc.
Yeah, I'm planning on a quick percussion-tracking session next week because of a clause similar to this. One of my demos has an Apple loop that I want to replace rather than layer it in the mix. It's a two-bar loop, no big deal, but it does mean that I need to figure out where I put the guiro last time I used it ...

(Actually what I need to do is organize my own performances of these sorts of perc loops... I have recordings of some common tambourine / shaker / guiro patterns in a bunch of tracks that I could probably re-use if I had them properly organized.)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 

what jeff said is correct. as for big fish... they did have that EULA but i think they revised it due to the backlash for a music library extra license . there is some post somehere which they say its ok as long as its not using the demo track. but i could be wrong on the time line.

Last edited by gsilbers; 4 weeks ago at 07:22 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
what jeff said is correct. as for big fish... they did have that EULA but i think they revised it due to the backlash. there is some post somehere which they say its ok as long as its not using the demo track. but i could be wrong on the time line.
It seems quite the opposite
Right now they are on sale on Loopmasters and there it's clearly stated that their packs can not be used in production music
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
Gear Nut
 

[QUOTE=Jeff Hayat;13682989]Barring the rare exception where the EULAs might restrict this*, the answer to your Q is yes. Once you create original content with samples to which you have purchased a license to use, that content is 100% yours, and the sample lib company has no claim. The rights and ownership of the original sample content, however, remain with the sample lib company.

Ciao Jeff

That's ok, I understand it,
You are the owner of the music and you can license it.
But, does it also means that you are owner of the master?
I've found nothing about it in the EULAs

Thanks
Mike
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikevsmike View Post
It seems quite the opposite
Right now they are on sale on Loopmasters and there it's clearly stated that their packs can not be used in production music
yes.. its a bit all over the place.
here is what im talking about
End User License Agreement | Big Fish Audio Help Center

"Can you use Big Fish Audio products in the making of a music library?

Yes. Big Fish Audio makes loops and virtual instruments. All virtual instruments are licensed to you for use in the creation of music, including music libraries. Our loop libraries commonly are in construction kit format. This means that we have created an entire song and presented you with the stems or individual tracks. The mix track or the demo track cannot be used for the creation of a music library and you can not recreate the mix track or demo track for the purpose of a music library. The stems or files, other than the mix track or demo track, can be used in the creation of library music.
"
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikevsmike View Post
But, does it also means that you are owner of the master?
YES
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
Arcana's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
yes.. its a bit all over the place.
here is what im talking about
End User License Agreement | Big Fish Audio Help Center

"Can you use Big Fish Audio products in the making of a music library?

Yes. Big Fish Audio makes loops and virtual instruments. All virtual instruments are licensed to you for use in the creation of music, including music libraries. Our loop libraries commonly are in construction kit format. This means that we have created an entire song and presented you with the stems or individual tracks. The mix track or the demo track cannot be used for the creation of a music library and you can not recreate the mix track or demo track for the purpose of a music library. The stems or files, other than the mix track or demo track, can be used in the creation of library music.
"
The mix or demo track is the mp3 demo they create to show off the library. It makes sense that it can't be used by composers. So no 'all over the place' as far as I'm concerned.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
The mix or demo track is the mp3 demo they create to show off the library. It makes sense that it can't be used by composers. So no 'all over the place' as far as I'm concerned.
the all over the place.. i meant that the eula is different on different places. some libraries just say cannot use i music libraries at all. some say it needs an extra license. and it varies where the library is.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #13
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikevsmike View Post
hi,

this forum is my 1st choise when in doubt about something music/licensing related
or in search of info

very informative
and grat people too

this is my question:

could you still claim ownership of the master/recordings of your own original composition if you are using 100% royalty free samples in the production process?

thanks
Mike

Yes, provided of course you have a valid license (i.e. you paid for it). That's the whole point of paying $$ for sample libraries and VSTs --- to be able to use it for your music without any further restrictions.

Like others have pointed out, be careful when you use loops or samples in an isolated context. Omnisphere has a clause in its EULA that it has to be used in a "musical context" (I'm paraphrasing). The purpose of that is to prevent people from creating their own sample libraries, using stems you created.

Also, make sure that you are in compliance with the amount of users. EW for example requires a license per individual end user, so if you are a composer and you have an assistant working for you in your studio, and you both use EW samples, you need two licenses. In practical terms EW may never find out if you breach the license terms, but don't go there ... it's legally risky and also unethical.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #14
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter5992 View Post
Like others have pointed out, be careful when you use loops or samples in an isolated context. Omnisphere has a clause in its EULA that it has to be used in a "musical context" (I'm paraphrasing). The purpose of that is to prevent people from creating their own sample libraries, using stems you created.
yes. To the point that there are libraries who will not accept a single Omnisphere sound in a stem. Others require at least 3 other sounds in conjunction with an Omnisphere sound in a stem. Tedious, but necessary.
Old 6 days ago
  #15
Here for the gear
 
nwade90's Avatar
I've been a bit of a Lurky Lurkerson on these forums lately, but I have to say that it has been an eye-opening six months. My foray in to using RF samples in my music is a recent thing, so I appreciate the reminders to read the fine print. I've used Loop Loft samples pretty copiously in my own music for years as well as potential production music, so this thread prompted me to re-read (if I even fully grasped what I was reading in the first place) their EULA, which is similar to Big Fish.

Quote:
All sounds and/or sound libraries purchased from The Loop Loft, Inc. are licensed, not sold, to you by The Loop Loft, Inc. The Loop Loft, Inc is the exclusive copyright holder and licensor of all sounds and/or sound libraries purchased from The Loop Loft, Inc websites. By purchasing sounds from The Loop Loft, Inc you are granted a non-exclusive right/license to incorporate The Loop Loft’s sounds in sync and within audio, visual, or multimedia productions and compositions. Audio, visual, and multimedia productions and compositions that qualify include film productions, television programs, radio/tv advertisements, website media, video game production, business presentations, album productions, artist promotions, and soundtracks – royalty free. However, The Loop Loft Inc products cannot be used in any productions or compositions for any Sound and/or Loop libraries whatsoever.
Well [email protected]#$ me running! And the above-mentioned issue of stems and samples used in isolation? Good to know moving forward! So thanks for the wisdom and free advice before I run afoul of the law
Top Mentioned Products
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
tmoney / Newbie audio engineering + production question zone
3
tmoney / Newbie audio engineering + production question zone
4
mizpulyn / So much gear, so little time
0
thedrumnotes / Music Business
16
vox345 / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
0

Forum Jump
Forum Jump