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Multiple mics summed?
Old 5 days ago
  #1
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Multiple mics summed?

Recorded with multiple mics which were then later summed into: Close, Decca, Hall

This does not sound normal to me for an orch, or part(s) thereof. Is it?
Old 3 days ago
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Recorded with multiple mics which were then later summed into: Close, Decca, Hall

This does not sound normal to me for an orch, or part(s) thereof. Is it?
Might need a bit more context!
Old 3 days ago
  #3
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It is a string sample lib recorded in some hall... that's all I have!
Old 3 days ago
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Recorded with multiple mics which were then later summed into: Close, Decca, Hall

This does not sound normal to me for an orch, or part(s) thereof. Is it?
String lib? Sounds like they took the close / ancillary mics and folded them into the appropriate aforementioned "stems". I'd say that sounds normal to me. They can't give you control over EVERY mic. They've got to condense things to some degree. That entails summing them together into the appropriate mic group.
Old 3 days ago
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
String lib? Sounds like they took the close / ancillary mics and folded them into the appropriate aforementioned "stems". I'd say that sounds normal to me. They can't give you control over EVERY mic. They've got to condense things to some degree. That entails summing them together into the appropriate mic group.
Well, yeah they could.... but I understand at some point, you have to make d/ls, HDD space and RAM usage feasible.

So, if you have several mic positions, which are a DTree and some ancillary/others, and you fold down/sum those into what you now call a DTree... that's not really a DTree, is it?
Old 3 days ago
  #6
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If you have stereo playback of a decca tree (3 mics), is it not summed? Is it still not a Decca Tree that is played back (in fact the first way before surround playback was used)?
I'd even expand that to the three mics on the tree and the 2 flanking mics which is the Decca technique. All justifiably could be called "Decca" (no tree). Which is what you've quoted says. And that's definitely a sum.

This is all pretty standard.

And besides d/ls, HDD space, and RAM, if you really wanted to control all mics in real time, it puts a burden on most people's computer from processing that many voices and crossfades in real time. So they are doing you a favour.
Old 3 days ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Well, yeah they could.... but I understand at some point, you have to make d/ls, HDD space and RAM usage feasible.

So, if you have several mic positions, which are a DTree and some ancillary/others, and you fold down/sum those into what you now call a DTree... that's not really a DTree, is it?

Jeff - first, maybe I'm an idiot but I don't know what d/ls is....

But yeah, technically if any mic is added to the 3 decca tree mics, it's not "technically" a decca tree. Then again, neither is a stereo fold-down to get out your stereo instance of Kontakt. But that said, I could give you several examples of 2 simultaneous decca tree's, multiple outriggers - front and back of the orch, several mics mid and far hall in various configs (depending on hall), and of course the close mics combined in unique and creative ways to achieve the best result. What goes where on a close / decca / hall stem is completely dependent on what was recorded and what the ultimate sound is.

What happens if the hall mics were too far back? What if the decca's were too close? What if the spot mics are too strident? Various combinations in subtle ghostings can really smooth things out and add definition if needed.

I could easily see a "close decca" (right over the conductors head) being added to the "close" stem. And a touch of main decca or outriggers to the "hall" stem for a touch of definition. in Stereo applications, the room (not far hall) outriggers will almost certainly be added to the LCR or stereo stem. Certainly, adding in a touch of close mics with a mid to far decca happens all the time - esp with some low perc.

It's all about creative choices, and the sonics you're after.
Old 3 days ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
If you have stereo playback of a decca tree (3 mics), is it not summed?.
Technically, yes, but I am talking before you make the final stereo/whatever mix.
Old 3 days ago
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Jeff - first, maybe I'm an idiot
NO!

d/l = download

As for the rest of your post, you are right, of course, but there in lies the issue, AFAIC. You are talking mixing, and creative decisions that are made to, as you say, achieve the sonics you're after.

But in this sample lib, much of this is done for you already. I guess that's what I have an issue with.

Another issue I have is with the way I worded my initial Q But that's for another day...

Cheers.
Old 3 days ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
NO!

d/l = download

As for the rest of your post, you are right, of course, but there in lies the issue, AFAIC. You are talking mixing, and creative decisions that are made to, as you say, achieve the sonics you're after.

But in this sample lib, much of this is done for you already. I guess that's what I have an issue with.

Another issue I have is with the way I worded my initial Q But that's for another day...

Cheers.
You said d/ls - what''s the S bro!!!!???

Yeah, but every library I've ever seen has combined (summed) mics. They just don't TELL you they have combined mics. For SURE they've taken 20+ close mics and combined them to "close" stereo. Then 3-5 decca + outriggers and combined them to stereo decca tree. Then....hard to know how many hall mics they used.

It's all an illusion Jeff!!
Old 3 days ago
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
You said d/ls - what''s the S bro!!!!???
Yer joking. Tell me yer joking....


Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Yeah, but every library I've ever seen has combined (summed) mics. They just don't TELL you they have combined mics.
Oh. Really? Nah. Yeah???
Old 1 day ago
  #12
yup, that is standard operating procedure for most orchestral libraries.

Close - is a stereo sum of all the close mics used on the orchestra (up to about 50 usually)

Tree - is a sum of the Decca Tree and outrigger pair (5 mics)

Hall - is a sum of all ambient microphones placed around the hall/studio for natural room reverb (anywhere from 4 to sometimes 12 or 16 mics)
Old 1 day ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
Close - is a stereo sum of all the close mics used on the orchestra (up to about 50 usually)
ok, well that makes sense.

So, in your opinion, does not having these mics separated (the DT and the OR for ex [tho SFA has those sep.]) put the end user at a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to depth and space? As compared, say, to a pro mixer with all of these mic positions at his disposal individually...
Old 7 hours ago
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
So, in your opinion, does not having these mics separated (the DT and the OR for ex [tho SFA has those sep.]) put the end user at a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to depth and space? As compared, say, to a pro mixer with all of these mic positions at his disposal individually...
Well, maybe... But by far and away the main disadvantage is that you're mixing samples, not real players. Think of it as a totally different ball game to mixing a real orchestral multitrack.
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