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Did BMG Buy Well?
Old 25th September 2018
  #1
Gear Head
 

Did BMG Buy Well?

OR did they buy into a bubble, like crypto currency?

I heard BMG was spending an exorbitant amount of money buying decent catalogs up.

Beds & Beats, Altitude, and others.

Does anyone know EXACTLY how much they overpaid by?
Old 25th September 2018
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngrichyrich View Post
OR did they buy into a bubble, like crypto currency?

I heard BMG was spending an exorbitant amount of money buying decent catalogs up.

Beds & Beats, Altitude, and others.

Does anyone know EXACTLY how much they overpaid by?
I have no idea, but I now have a song in the BMG catalog. Where is my cut? Lol!
Old 25th September 2018
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
I have no idea, but I now have a song in the BMG catalog. Where is my cut? Lol!
Ownership is where the REAL $ is.
Old 26th September 2018
  #4
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Interestingly enough a lot of folks are saying the catalog purchasing happening in the publishing world is also similar to a bubble, they are all fighting for market share because of Web 3.0 and the success of streaming.

I personally think that whats happening in music is similar to crypto!
Old 26th September 2018
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngrichyrich View Post
Ownership is where the REAL $ is.
Yes, that is true.
Old 26th September 2018
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngrichyrich View Post
Does anyone know EXACTLY how much they overpaid by?
$2.5 mil
Old 26th September 2018
  #7
I know a few people at some of the libraries they have bought. I wouldn't say they overpaid at all.

You have to realize they aren't buying small unknown catalogs. They are buying top performing catalogs like Immediate Music and No Sheet Music. So those types of companies do not come cheap.

BMG is positioning themselves to be the next big production music powerhouse. Most people don't realize up until this point Universal Publishing Production Music has been the biggest and strongest "library" worldwide for years now. BMG seems like they are trying to knock them out of the top spot.

And they are going after key talent as well. They were able to get John Clifford to move over from Universal to BMG (which is a huge deal, a big part of Unippm's success worldwide is from John). And then John was able to literally take all of Universal's asian licensing staff over to BMG. Universal had 5 offices throughout Asia. They are all empty now because they all work for BMG.

In the next 5 to 10 years you are going to see BMG become a huge player in the production music industry. Universal was making $40-$60mil in profit (not revenue, that is net profit after paying out to all their 3rd party catalogs) every year worldwide from their production music division... now BMG is snagging a lot of Universal's top earning catalogs and their top performing staff... so what do you think? Will it be worth it? Is it really "overpaying" when they could be making $40-$60mil a year in profits several years from now?
Old 26th September 2018
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
You have to realize they aren't buying small unknown catalogs. They are buying top performing catalogs like Immediate Music and No Sheet Music.
What is the purpose of those smaller cos. (IM, NSM) selling to BMG? When you get to the point of say, an IM, does BMG really have the potential for so many more placements, that the increase there more than makes up for the revenue split?
Old 26th September 2018
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
What is the purpose of those smaller cos. (IM, NSM) selling to BMG? When you get to the point of say, an IM, does BMG really have the potential for so many more placements, that the increase there more than makes up for the revenue split?
Well, there are a variety of factors as to why a company sells. first and foremost is retirement. Maybe the owners want to retire?

Second could be revenue. Sometimes these purchasing deals aren't for 100% of the catalog. Maybe BMG is buying 80% of the ownership. So that money gives a big influx of cash that can allow the library to do things it wanted but never had the capital to do.

Third could be just easier for the owners. A lot of times in these deals, the owners stay on with a huge salary and help run the catalog but all of the day to day "operations" get taken over by the larger corporate owner now. So then the original owners can focus more on things like making music and less on things like earnings forecasts, ebitda and TPS reports!

There is a number of reasons why people sell, even beyond just these three. Some library owners sell just so they can start over again from scratch, build up another catalog and then sell that one off, rinse and repeat over and over.
Old 26th September 2018
  #10
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
I know a few people at some of the libraries they have bought. I wouldn't say they overpaid at all.

You have to realize they aren't buying small unknown catalogs. They are buying top performing catalogs like Immediate Music and No Sheet Music. So those types of companies do not come cheap.

BMG is positioning themselves to be the next big production music powerhouse. Most people don't realize up until this point Universal Publishing Production Music has been the biggest and strongest "library" worldwide for years now. BMG seems like they are trying to knock them out of the top spot.

And they are going after key talent as well. They were able to get John Clifford to move over from Universal to BMG (which is a huge deal, a big part of Unippm's success worldwide is from John). And then John was able to literally take all of Universal's asian licensing staff over to BMG. Universal had 5 offices throughout Asia. They are all empty now because they all work for BMG.

In the next 5 to 10 years you are going to see BMG become a huge player in the production music industry. Universal was making $40-$60mil in profit (not revenue, that is net profit after paying out to all their 3rd party catalogs) every year worldwide from their production music division... now BMG is snagging a lot of Universal's top earning catalogs and their top performing staff... so what do you think? Will it be worth it? Is it really "overpaying" when they could be making $40-$60mil a year in profits several years from now?
Universal is gonna knock BMG out. BMG doesn't stand a chance, let's be real.
Old 27th September 2018
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngrichyrich View Post
Universal is gonna knock BMG out. BMG doesn't stand a chance, let's be real.
Hmmm....I dunno if that is being real tbh.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
Here for the gear
 

BMG Production Music’s Revenue, NPS and EBITDA has more than doubled over the last two years, (beginning of 2017 to end of 2018) and in 2019 BMG PM are on track to grow a further 40+%. They are already highly profitable, so no one should be too sure about UPM retaining that top spot for too long!

Last edited by PMbizinsider; 4 weeks ago at 09:13 PM.. Reason: Error
Old 4 weeks ago
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMbizinsider View Post
BMG Production Music’s Revenue, NPS and EBITDA has more than doubled over the last two years, (beginning of 2017 to end of 2018) and in 2019 BMG PM are on track to grow a further 40+%. They are already highly profitable, so no one should be too sure about UPM retaining that top spot for too long!
Are UPPM in top spot?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
They are buying top performing catalogs like Immediate Music and No Sheet Music.
NSM are a top performing catalogue? !!

Wow.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lornemalvo View Post
NSM are a top performing catalogue? !!

Wow.
I was going to say. Know a few people with stuff on NSM, they wouldn't agree...

The (sometimes only) appeal of being on these small labels is that due to their size, your work might not get lost in a barrage of releases and content. No upfront, 50/50 sync splits (not much chance with so many blanket licenses). I have stuff on a label taken over by BMG. My royalties went right down.

And this again, is why I won't write for these companies. They get all your music for no cost, they build a huge 'asset', then sell it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
I was going to say. Know a few people with stuff on NSM, they wouldn't agree...

The (sometimes only) appeal of being on these small labels is that due to their size, your work might not get lost in a barrage of releases and content. No upfront, 50/50 sync splits (not much chance with so many blanket licenses). I have stuff on a label taken over by BMG. My royalties went right down.

And this again, is why I won't write for the companies. They get all your music for no cost, they build a huge 'asset', then sell it.
Not being snarky - did you mean why you won't write for 'these' companies? Who do you write for if not a company, or a small label company? Do you mean you only write when there's an up front paid?

I have a few albums with different labels that were taken over by BMG. Mostly BMG have sucked completely, but one or two old tracks suddenly got new placements. Overall there's no way I'd consider BMG up there with the best.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
Not being snarky - did you mean why you won't write for 'these' companies? Who do you write for if not a company, or a small label company? Do you mean you only write when there's an up front paid?

I have a few albums with different labels that were taken over by BMG. Mostly BMG have sucked completely, but one or two old tracks suddenly got new placements. Overall there's no way I'd consider BMG up there with the best.

Which one is NSM by the way?
To clarify, I mean libraries that pay nothing up front.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #18
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
To clarify, I mean libraries that pay nothing up front.
Wow, you don't write for any library that doesn't pay up front? Have you done that since you started out?!

I know of some writers who are making a good living from libraries that don't pay up front, e.g. >250k/year royalties, but I'm guessing they're probably exceptions.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #19
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Amber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
Wow, you don't write for any library that doesn't pay up front? Have you done that since you started out?!

I know of some writers who are making a good living from libraries that don't pay up front, e.g. >250k/year royalties, but I'm guessing they're probably exceptions.
I'd say 10% of my work is with libraries that don't pay anything up front.

250k is a good living from those however, be curious what libraries they are! It seems so hit or miss and a big time suck to get it wrong.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #20
Mrx
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
I'd say 10% of my work is with libraries that don't pay anything up front.

250k is a good living from those however, be curious what libraries they are! It seems to hit or miss and a big time suck to get it wrong.
It is very much a hit and miss in my experience, especially with the traditional UK needle drop libraries. Going non exclusive (exclusively) is beginning to look a lot more attractive.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #21
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Amber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrx View Post
It is very much a hit and miss in my experience, especially with the traditional UK needle drop libraries. Going non exclusive (exclusively) is beginning to look a lot more attractive.
Yeah, I know a lot of composers and I don't know anyone making that money from the 50/50 sync, no upfront/advance model libraries (outside of trailer of course, but that's another story).

Now, Universal, Audio Network, yes. Quite a few.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by lornemalvo View Post
NSM are a top performing catalogue? !!

Wow.
Oh, Nuts... sorry... I meant Deep East. BMG didn't buy NSM, they bought Deep East. I don't know why I do that. I always called DEM NSM and vice versa. LOL
Old 4 weeks ago
  #23
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Amber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
Oh, Nuts... sorry... I meant Deep East. BMG didn't buy NSM, they bought Deep East. I don't know why I do that. I always called DEM NSM and vice versa. LOL
Yeah DEM stuff is great quality.

I've also just realised, No Sheet Music. Is that a play on certain British accents?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber View Post
Yeah DEM stuff is great quality.

I've also just realised, No Sheet Music. Is that a play on certain British accents?
Wow, I thought the same thing and I am a Yankee!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lornemalvo View Post
Are UPPM in top spot?
Yes UPM are still in top spot - but we need to remember that this is a market leading position built up over decades!.....and a lot of that growth prior to 2008 was thanks to BMG!

When it comes to BMG Production music - you have to remember that they have been in this business before. No one should forget that everything Universal PM has in their arsenal, was inherited from the ‘old’ BMG - when BMG Music publishing was sold to Universal in 2008 (before the global crash - BMG were smart!)

Now they are back in the PM business again - and the reality is, that whilst that new journey started in 2013 with BMG’s acquisition of Selectracks...the company has really only been operating as ‘properly set up’ international production music concern - with a footprint in most major markets - since the beginning of 2017....and per Etch-a-sketch’s post it is no coincidence that the company has seen major growth since mid 2017 when John Clifford joined, having moved over from Universal PM.

So if you are a composer with material in BMGs catalogues it is not unusual (during integration / transition) to see a dip in royalties in the short-term. BUT with the exponential growth BMG PM are experiencing (which is outpacing every other PM company out there) - I would encourage some on this thread not to be too short-sighted

Make no mistake - BMG PM have some of the most experienced people in this business joining their team.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #26
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMbizinsider View Post
Yes UPM are still in top spot
Coolio! That's good to know as I have about 600 hundred tracks with them.

BMG - not done anything for them but I know some of their team well. JC is awesome and a bit of a library biz genius and will make it a huge success I'm sure. If anyone can do it, JC can.

He certainly seems to be getting a good team together
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