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ASCAP Royalties Vs. BMI Studio Accessories
Old 9th July 2018
  #1
ASCAP Royalties Vs. BMI

Hey guys,
Wanted to float out this question to you all since ASCAP domestic just paid this morning...

I am seeing what appears to be a low number for MTV placements in prime time and i wanted to ask if these amounts on my statement sound right to you or are too low?

I was seeing across the board $28.5 per 1 min of Prime Time airing per one airing. I was seeing this amount consistent across three shows.

I just got off the phone with a BMI writer that has had music on the same show seeing $100-$130 per min prime time 1 airing.

Anyone else in any of these ballparks?

THANK YOU!
Old 9th July 2018
  #2
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clearside View Post
Hey guys,
Wanted to float out this question to you all since ASCAP domestic just paid this morning...

I am seeing what appears to be a low number for MTV placements in prime time and i wanted to ask if these amounts on my statement sound right to you or are too low?

I was seeing across the board $28.5 per 1 min of Prime Time airing per one airing. I was seeing this amount consistent across three shows.

I just got off the phone with a BMI writer that has had music on the same show seeing $100-$130 per min prime time 1 airing.

Anyone else in any of these ballparks?

THANK YOU!
Just did a quick check I'm at $29.26 for an instrumental, showing as BG on my statement..

Two things to look for...is the BMI cue notated as a background instrumental? Or did they notate it as a vocal?

Also...with BMI it's super hard to tell if it's 1 airing or several...I don't believe they have the amount of times it's aired on the statement but ill check again to make sure..
Old 10th July 2018
  #3
BMI lists number of airings but not day part. I’ve got some stuff in reruns on MTV that I know aired outside of prime time paying about $20 per minute for a background instrumental. But then there are a few that paid more like $50 per minute. Maybe those were in prime time.

This is a super small sample size, though, and BMI does supposedly take ratings into account when apportioning royalties, so every show could be different.
Old 11th July 2018
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by clearside View Post
Hey guys,
Wanted to float out this question to you all since ASCAP domestic just paid this morning...

I am seeing what appears to be a low number for MTV placements in prime time and i wanted to ask if these amounts on my statement sound right to you or are too low?

I was seeing across the board $28.5 per 1 min of Prime Time airing per one airing. I was seeing this amount consistent across three shows.

I just got off the phone with a BMI writer that has had music on the same show seeing $100-$130 per min prime time 1 airing.

Anyone else in any of these ballparks?

THANK YOU!
The other thing is comparing the AMOUNT of plays.

ASCAP may have given you roughly $30/min, and you might have 30 airings...

BMI may have given you $100/min, but you might only have 9 airings.

If you are going to compare you really need to cowrite with a BMI writer and check with the cowriter. When I've compared things I've cowritten with BMI writers they usually make more per airing, but I have usually made more total because I end up with way more airings than they had on their BMI statement.

I'll have 200 airings of a promo, while they have it listed once. I'll have 10 listings of an inshow placement airing, they'll have 3. So yes, they might have a higher rate... but you really have to not only look at the per minute but also the sum total.
Old 12th July 2018
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
The other thing is comparing the AMOUNT of plays.
Thanks for the advice guys! This really helps
Old 12th July 2018
  #6
Here for the gear
 

At least you're getting paid. Every PRS (UK) member (including me) I know is seeing a payout of £0 indicated today. The PRS is the monumentally incompetent PRO in existence.
Old 12th July 2018
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetM View Post
At least you're getting paid. Every PRS (UK) member (including me) I know is seeing a payout of £0 indicated today. The PRS is the monumentally incompetent PRO in existence.
Wait, what? They aren’t paying any royalties to anyone today? OMG, that is crazy! Might be time for you to switch to a US PRO.
Old 12th July 2018
  #8
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The figures have now reverted to the correct amount.

It is one thing after another with the PRS. A lot of composers/songwriters are very unhappy with the organisation at the moment. It's no wonder that they're currently being sued by three of the biggest ever UK acts...
Old 12th July 2018
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
Wait, what? They aren’t paying any royalties to anyone today? OMG, that is crazy! Might be time for you to switch to a US PRO.
The PRS would still handle UK royalties if I did that and then hand them over to the US PRO.
Old 12th July 2018
  #10
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PetM View Post
The PRS would still handle UK royalties if I did that and then hand them over to the US PRO.
Which would, no doubt, make things worse.
Old 15th July 2018
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

i was thinking of resigning from ASCAP as they are not paying me for so many placements due to their ridiculous survey system. anyone else experience this and if so did you switch and get a better experience with BMI pay outs?
Old 17th July 2018
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannymc View Post
i was thinking of resigning from ASCAP as they are not paying me for so many placements due to their ridiculous survey system. anyone else experience this and if so did you switch and get a better experience with BMI pay outs?
While I'm not a huge fan of ASCAP either, I have had the opposite experience with eh surveys. I have had higher payments because of the averaging assumptions that you get paid on when you show up in a survey.

So the surveys have actually worked to my benefit in the past, but I know for some the surveys work against you.
Old 18th July 2018
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
While I'm not a huge fan of ASCAP either, I have had the opposite experience with eh surveys. I have had higher payments because of the averaging assumptions that you get paid on when you show up in a survey.

So the surveys have actually worked to my benefit in the past, but I know for some the surveys work against you.
Yeah - there are times BMI will be better, and times ASCAP will be better. But if you are really diversified, I don't think you can say one is better than the other across the board.

It's kinda like goin' cruisin' for babes. Do I take out the BMW, or the ZR1? Ooh - she's hot, but she's a BWM chick - too bad I brought the Vette. Next nite, it's oooh - check her **** out! But damn, she's a Vette babe.... too bad I brought the beamer :(
Old 19th July 2018
  #14
ASCAP now charges $50 for a songwriter account and $50 for a publisher account. Good frickin’ grief!

Member Enrollment
Old 19th July 2018
  #15
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markodarko's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
It's kinda like goin' cruisin' for babes. (
Blimey. I thought I only had an hour's nap. Did I wake up in the past?
Old 19th July 2018
  #16
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
ASCAP now charges $50 for a songwriter account and $50 for a publisher account. Good frickin’ grief!

Member Enrollment
That's predatory.
Old 19th July 2018
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
That's predatory.
Absolutely!
Old 19th July 2018
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
ASCAP now charges $50 for a songwriter account and $50 for a publisher account. Good frickin’ grief!
Hasn't this always been the case with ASCAP? I think that's why I joined with BMI umpty years ago when I was broke and had zero clue, truthfully.
Old 19th July 2018
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpacaRoom View Post
Hasn't this always been the case with ASCAP? I think that's why I joined with BMI umpty years ago when I was broke and had zero clue, truthfully.
I joined back in 2007 and I don’t think I paid anything for songwriter or publisher membership.
Old 19th July 2018
  #20
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VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
ASCAP now charges $50 for a songwriter account and $50 for a publisher account. Good frickin’ grief!

Member Enrollment
Hahaha! I think they charged $10 for like 100 years. Why don't you go sign up as a publisher with BMI and get back to me?
Old 19th July 2018
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
Hahaha! I think they charged $10 for like 100 years. Why don't you go sign up as a publisher with BMI and get back to me?
It’s $150 for a publisher membership with BMI, right?
Old 19th July 2018
  #22
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VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
It’s $150 for a publisher membership with BMI, right?
Yup. $250 per if you're a company, which every publisher should be... LLC at a minimum.
Old 19th July 2018
  #23
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpacaRoom View Post
Hasn't this always been the case with ASCAP?
No - it was always free for songwriters (well, at least since '09 when I joined; prior to that I do not know).

There was a charge to join as a pub, tho.

Don't forget - (at least in the USA) the fee you pay is a tax deduction, do remember to add it to your expenses!
Old 20th July 2018
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
Hahaha! I think they charged $10 for like 100 years. Why don't you go sign up as a publisher with BMI and get back to me?
I payed like $25 and $25 to join ASCAP back in 2006/2007-ish.

I just joined SESAC July 1st and was $0 and $0 for writer and pub account. So happy to be leaving ASCAP however I am leaving my back catalog behind and going with only future works with SESAC so unfortunately ASCAP will be in my life for years to come...
Old 20th July 2018
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

i joined ASCAP in 2015 and there was a charge of $100. maybe it was because i was a non- US resident not sure. either way my experience with them has been awful and not worth one penny of that. i really dont think they care about us little guys anyway they are more concerned with keeping their big clients happy.
Old 20th July 2018
  #26
Here for the gear
 

Is/are there any reason(s) to choose BMI over ASCAP or vice versa?
Old 20th July 2018
  #27
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VitaEtMusica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clearside View Post
I payed like $25 and $25 to join ASCAP back in 2006/2007-ish.

I just joined SESAC July 1st and was $0 and $0 for writer and pub account. So happy to be leaving ASCAP however I am leaving my back catalog behind and going with only future works with SESAC so unfortunately ASCAP will be in my life for years to come...
SESAC has its own problems too. I'll say it again- until TV, Film, and Library writers come together and form their own PRO committed to transparency and fairness, we'll never have representation we can trust to do the right thing.
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