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$ Make Some Money $
Old 23rd June 2018
  #1
Here for the gear
$ Make Some Money $

Hey guys !

I thought I'd let all my fellow Gearslutz users know that the video game company Ubisoft Entertainment is looking for music for there new game called Beyond Good & Evil 2. It's set up at Hitrecord and any 1 is welcome to join.

There looking for musical seeds, beats, samples and riffs that we can develop into space pirate songs! Kind of like grand theft auto's Radio. You can remix any track. So all you Gurus get at it!!!

Any way I hope some of you join us and have fun.

Here is the link

HITRECORD

Last edited by Sillyrobin; 24th June 2018 at 06:48 PM..
Old 23rd June 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 

First question that comes to my mind: What does it pay?

Second question, you mix Ubisoft and "us", so it's a bit unclear just who "you" are. Are you representing Ubisoft or someone else? What is "Hitrecord"?

Lastly, hate to be one of those people, but:

Old 23rd June 2018
  #3
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Amber's Avatar
 

Hitrecord.org is Joseph Gordon Levitt's website. They've had a lot of legit projects on there.
Old 23rd June 2018
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
Arcana's Avatar
 

I was going to say 'Welcome to the forum Sillyrobin' but then I realised it's taken you 9 years to make a single post

A bit odd that a huge company like Ubisoft are looking for composers/remixers, on a game that's possibly been in development since 2008.
But if it's done via Joseph Gordon Levitt's company, it seems like it could worth pursuing. Still, a bit odd.
Old 24th June 2018
  #5
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
I was going to say 'Welcome to the forum Sillyrobin' but then I realised it's taken you 9 years to make a single post

A bit odd that a huge company like Ubisoft are looking for composers/remixers, on a game that's possibly been in development since 2008.
But if it's done via Joseph Gordon Levitt's company, it seems like it could worth pursuing. Still, a bit odd.
Sorry for the delay lol. And yes its true Joseph Gordon Levitt's is running it. Its a great place to collaborate and if what you do is something they pic you will be payed.
Old 24th June 2018
  #6
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
First question that comes to my mind: What does it pay?

Second question, you mix Ubisoft and "us", so it's a bit unclear just who "you" are. Are you representing Ubisoft or someone else? What is "Hitrecord"?

Lastly, hate to be one of those people, but:
QA 1. Well how it works is they make the money off the product and split the profit with the people involved.

QA 2. My Name is Robin. I represent me. I have been collaborating at Hitrecord for over 2 years and made around $2000 . Hope that helps.

This is my profile. All the tracks on my profile were made by my self and people from around the world. It's a great community and I hope you join us some day.
HITRECORD

Last edited by Sillyrobin; 24th June 2018 at 07:02 PM..
Old 24th June 2018
  #7
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sillyrobin View Post
QA 1. Well how it works is they make the money of the product and split the profit with the people involved.
Do I have a signed contract in my hand that stipulates this, and that also says that the music will not be used for anything else, before I submit anything?
Old 24th June 2018
  #8
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Do I have a signed contract in my hand that stipulates this, and that also says that the music will not be used for anything else, before I submit anything?
This is the help section on there website. It has all the info about payments.

HITRECORD

All so Joe just posted something the other day about people asking the same question. So this link might help answer some questions you might have as well.
HITRECORD
Old 24th June 2018
  #9
Lives for gear
I might be interested. I love video games but I write synthwave darkwave style. Very 80s
Old 24th June 2018
  #10
Here for the gear
I must say it's a little funny to me reading how this post can freak people out. Even though Joseph Gordon Levitt's is running the website and I gave the link.


Just look at this.
YouTube
Old 24th June 2018
  #11
Lives for gear
Thank you i will look at the site. Yeah i have no idea.
Old 24th June 2018
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sillyrobin View Post
I must say it's a little funny to me reading how this post can freak people out.
Nobody's freaking out. But you're some random dude or dudette who registered in 2005 and only now made your first post. We don't know you, and most appear to not know the website you referred to. Neither did we know anything about compensation.

All the questions were reasonable, and I bet nobody had asked any questions you had interpreted as "freaking out" if you had just told us about it straight up instead. There's a lot of use and abuse in our industry, so skepticism is warranted.

That's all.
Old 24th June 2018
  #13
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sillyrobin View Post
I must say it's a little funny to me reading how this post can freak people out.
I have yet to see anyone "freak out". In this thread, anyway.

I looked at your links. No mention of a contract. Unless I missed it?
Old 24th June 2018
  #14
Lives for gear
 

I got the impression that you submit content, and can then use other people's content as you see fit in the creation of 'art', and if the piece of 'art' gets an offer to be sold/distributed the deal/contract is worked out at that point in time.
Old 24th June 2018
  #15
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Nobody's freaking out. But you're some random dude or dudette who registered in 2005 and only now made your first post. We don't know you, and most appear to not know the website you referred to. Neither did we know anything about compensation.

All the questions were reasonable, and I bet nobody had asked any questions you had interpreted as "freaking out" if you had just told us about it straight up instead. There's a lot of use and abuse in our industry, so skepticism is warranted.

That's all.

Fair enough. "Freaking out" is an overstatement. And your right I haven't been posting on gearslutz or made a presents here before. But I did recently organize my Google chrome tab bar and place all my music form sites into 1 folder. So that's how this post happened. I also went to many other form sites asking for help as well. This project is important for every 1 in the community to pull off and do it right so we always have big name Company’s giving opportunity’s to make money. Plus we need more musicians to help us finish all kinds of projects over there. Every 1's skepticism is understandable. But in some ways I would say No. Reason for this is because I put links to the website. Also Joseph Gordon Levitt's is a legit name. Just google him and you'll quickly know what I'm talking about. Plus the website had a TV show on Netflix, made a commercial for LG and they got an Emmy nomination for Hitrecords (Are You There, Democracy? It's Me, the Internet." project) Even Edward Snowden commented on that project. Also just recently payed out Hundreds of musicians for a Mixtape they put together. A lot of great musicians came together from around the world and made some amazing stuff. Here is a link to it.
HitRECord | Hit RECord | Free Listening on SoundCloud . Last but not least Ubisoft Entertainment should speak for its self as well.

Sorry for not doing my due diligence to give you guys all the details all in the headliner. But I'm just a hobbyist passing the word along to fellow musicians. That's really what's happening here guys. That should be more reassuring it’s not spam because it’s not wrapped in a pretty bow for you. Also if you don’t believe me there is this thing called google to get more info.

Over all it’s a really open and friendly community over there and if you like to make music with other people online I’m sure you’ll have fun.
Old 24th June 2018
  #16
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I got the impression that you submit content, and can then use other people's content as you see fit in the creation of 'art', and if the piece of 'art' gets an offer to be sold/distributed the deal/contract is worked out at that point in time.
Yep
Old 24th June 2018
  #17
Lives for gear
 

We were just asking for more info. Once you gave it we weren't doubting you. At most just asking follow up questions.

And I know who JGL is. I don't live under a rock, although I occasionally listen to it.
Old 24th June 2018
  #18
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
We were just asking for more info. Once you gave it we weren't doubting you. At most just asking follow up questions.

And I know who JGL is. I don't live under a rock, although I occasionally listen to it.
I hear ya Bud. It's sad though that we all need to keep are guard up like this. There are so many scams out there that even when a honest company like Hitrecord comes along that actually pays people for there work it sounds unbelievable. I seen Joseph Gordon promote Hitrecord on Facebook and give a rundown on what its about and confidently jumped in to the community of musicians over there. Some of you are hearing it from me and I am a nobody so I understand. And I should have had more understanding as well. Sorry about that.
Old 24th June 2018
  #19
Here for the gear
Here is a really good example of what is happening.

YouTube

YouTube
Old 25th June 2018
  #20
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
I'm not digging the vibe. I want to see a contract, and have a brief. Either I hit it, or I don't. Fire me, or pay me.

I don't need other people taking my music and "fixing" or "changing" it in the name of collaboration. Also, I don't need a group of folks sitting around a table deciding on how much I should get paid after all is said and done. "Hey, let's give Bob $4,322.76 dollars and John $0.72." That shows poor management skills to me. Or the ability to not be able to wrap their head around a project. I know, I know, it's a new way or working. IMO - for hobbyists. Call me old school, but I'm not interested in playing "career games" on the internet instead of bolstering my actual career.....

I'm actually not sure why you are on here promoting the heck out of it.... ???
Old 25th June 2018
  #21
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I'm not digging the vibe. I want to see a contract, and have a brief. Either I hit it, or I don't. Fire me, or pay me.

I don't need other people taking my music and "fixing" or "changing" it in the name of collaboration. Also, I don't need a group of folks sitting around a table deciding on how much I should get paid after all is said and done. "Hey, let's give Bob $4,322.76 dollars and John $0.72." That shows poor management skills to me. Or the ability to not be able to wrap their head around a project. I know, I know, it's a new way or working. IMO - for hobbyists. Call me old school, but I'm not interested in playing "career games" on the internet instead of bolstering my actual career.....

I'm actually not sure why you are on here promoting the heck out of it.... ???

WHY ??
QUOTE "Music For Picture Discuss the composition & creation, production, licensing and ins and outs of music for film, TV, commercials and any other motion picture sync. Music For Games" QUOTE

Other then what the title of the form suggest I'm not sure what your question is.

And yeah I do regret it.

Over all if I start a thread I would imagine I should take some responsibility to answer some question and add information to what its about.. And I am a hobbyists and so are many other artist. I would believe 99% are. I'm sure you have better resources and don't share the same enthusiasm towards this project because you know better. Well all the Power to ya Bud. I didn't mean to offend any 1. I'm just realizing now that people can get sensitive about this subject matter. Hitrecord operates the way it does and many hobbyists like myself don't have music as a career are more then happy to participate. But yeah if you are a pro making the big bucks I would agree you keep doing your thing Man.

Last edited by Sillyrobin; 25th June 2018 at 11:22 PM..
Old 25th June 2018
  #22
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
It's about education. Please, there's no need to get your feathers ruffled. If I offended, I apologize.

We see more scammy types of "new skool" production schemes than you could possibly imagine. They pop up every week. Honestly, without investigating further, this seems like another one of them with a pretty face attached. And when announced by a first time poster..... Well, it is instantly suspect, as you have already experienced.

You mention that you do this as a hobby, so I'll assume that you have a real job that pays the bills, yes? IMO, in "real life", no one who participates with hitrecord would agree to work their day job where they came in to work, and all their co-workers came in to work, and then somewhere down the road, their boss and his associates decided how much money they would make. No....they would expect to be told that when they were hired. That kind of work scenario wouldn't last a minute in the real world. So, perhaps you can see my (our) perspective.

Hey, I could be wrong. Or maybe I just don't "get it". Or maybe this is that way we'll all be working in 10 years. Who knows. But for now, it certainly seems opportunistic. And the video with Joseph Gordon Levitt and all the checks....dude, that's tacky at best.
Old 26th June 2018
  #23
Quote:
...Contributing Artist Shares. If any RECord or Non-RECord Contribution you have Posted or provided to hitRECord is part of a Final Product that has been distributed, commercialized, and generated Profits (or, in the Operating Committee’s determination, other tangible benefits) for a Contributing Artists’ Profit Pool (defined below), then the Company will notify you via electronic mail to the address associated with your account of the Contributing Artist’s Share (defined below) that has been conditionally granted to you following monetization. We say conditionally because you are not entitled to any allocation of a Contributing Artists’ Profit Pool unless you meet the requirements for a Participating Contributing Artist, as defined in Section 2.a.i below. As set forth in the Terms, you are welcome to comment on the Contributing Artist’s Share that you and others have been conditionally allocated within the Contributing Artists’ Profit Pool (e.g., make a case for a different percentage, notify the Operating Committee of any omissions in attributions to your RECords, etc.) for a Final Product, provided that the Company may accept or reject any different allocations suggested in any comments and change the allocation of the Contributing Artists’ Profit Pool among all Contributing Artists for a Final Product in its sole discretion and at any time during the period in which the Company specifies for the determination of the Contributing Artists’ Profit Pool, which in no case will be less than two (2) weeks from the date that the Company first notifies the Contributing Artists for a Final Product of their respective Contributing Artist Shares. The date on which the Operating Committee finalizes the Contributing Artists’ Profit Pool is the “Allocation Date.”
Quote:
Each Contributing Artist to a Final Product will be deemed a “Participating Contributing Artist” and will share in an applicable Contributing Artists’ Profit Pool provided he/she:

has accepted the Terms;

complied with the Submission Guidelines;

Posted a RECord or made a Non-RECord Contribution to hitRECord that is included in a Final Product; and

Provided sufficient identifying information to enable the Company to pay him or her before the close of the period specified in Section 1.a.ii, which at a minimum includes full legal name, valid physical address, and any tax information required by applicable law (“Requisite Payment Information”).
Quote:
The “Contributing Artists’ Profit Pool” from a Final Product will mean:

fifty percent (50%) of the Profits (defined below) from a Final Product that has been distributed and commercialized, if any, and

any amount the Company allocates to Contributing Artists for:

products sold or licensed, or tangible expressions that serve as an inspiration for the sale or licensing of a derivative work of a product to third parties for distribution (e.g. on any form of linear or on-demand television), or

amounts negotiated by the Company for allocation to Contributing Artists as part of a line item in an approved budget for any usage of the Final Product.

Subparts (i) and (ii) of this Section 2(b)(i)(1)(b) are the “Discretionary Profit Pool”.

Retained Profits. The Company will retain the remaining 50% of the Profits, if any, in the case of Section 2(b)(i)(1)(a), and any proceeds the Company receives from any third party, such as a television distribution partner, whether directly or indirect, minus the Discretionary Profit Pool, in the case of Section 2(b)(i)(1)(b) (the “Retained Profits”). Because there are unlikely to be Profits for many distributed Final Products due to the high cost of production (e.g. for television), the Company will seek to obtain amounts for the Discretionary Profit Pool through negotiations with distribution partners. This may include specific, budgeted line item amounts that will be dedicated entirely to Contributing Artists or specific fees for the Use (as defined below) of a Final Product, whether alone or as part of a larger work. These amounts are likely to vary over time and be subject to the vagaries of arm’s length, free market negotiations.
Quote:
Participating Contributing Artists for a Final Product will be entitled to a share of the Contributing Artists’ Profit Pool as the Operating Committee will award in its sole discretion. The Operating Committee will make its determinations following the acceptance of feedback from the hitRECord community of Users. The comment period will be open for not less than two (2) weeks but may be kept open for longer periods in the Company’s sole discretion. The Company will identify the duration of the comment period for a Final Product when it first notifies the Participating Contributing Artists to that Final Product, subject to any extensions identified in the immediately preceding sentence.

Notwithstanding any other provision of these Monetization Terms, if one or more Contributing Artists for a Final Product have failed to provide the Company the Requisite Payment Information by the Allocation Date (an “Unpayable Contributing Artist”), then any conditional allocation made to those Unpayable Contributing Artist(s) will be set aside until the earlier of (i) the date on which he or she provides the Requisite Payment Information, or (ii) the third anniversary of the Allocation Date. If those Unpayable Contributing Artist(s) do not provide the Requisite Payment Information by the third anniversary of the Allocation Date, then any conditional allocation made to those Unpayable Contributing Artist(s) will be deemed null and void and the Company will retain that conditional amount for use in paying contributors in future community projects.
Quote:
Minimum Balance Requirements. Distributions of a Contributing Artists’ Profit Pool for a Final Product will not be payable until the minimum balance of the Contributing Artists’ Profit Pool is equal to or greater than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00) (the “Minimum Profit Pool Balance”). Once the Minimum Profit Pool Balance is achieved, all Participating Contributing Artists for that Final Product will be eligible for a distribution equal to their Participating Contributing Artist’s Share; provided, however, that no Contributing Artist will be entitled to receive payment of his/her Participating Contributing Artist’s Share until he/she is owed at least Five Dollars ($5.00) in Distributable Contributing Artist Profits (the “Minimum Distribution Balance”). We have to impose this limit so that the cost of distributing the Contributing Artist Profit Pool does not consume Distributable Contributing Artist Profits.
Quote:
Delays in Distributions. Each Participating Contributing Artist acknowledges and agrees that the Company is a small, start-up company and that distributing Distributable Contributing Artist Profits to Participating Contributing Artists can be labor intensive, time consuming, and expensive. We also want to make sure we get it right – which, in and of itself, is a difficult and time-consuming process. Each Participating Contributing Artist therefore agrees that the Company may suspend a distribution of Distributable Contributing Artist Profits for up to two Semi-Annual Periods if the Company is not reasonably capable, in light of its then-current resources, of making a timely distribution. A determination of reasonable capability will be made, if ever, in the sole discretion of the board of directors of the Company. Any temporary suspension of distributions pursuant to this Section 2(d)(x) will result simply in a temporary carryforward of any Distributable Contributing Artist Profits account balances, which will eventually be distributed to you in accordance with these Monetized Final Product Terms. In the event the Company delays the distribution of Distributable Contributing Artist Profits pursuant to this Section 2(d)(x), the Company will notify the Participating Contributing Artists allocated a portion of the Distributable Contributing Artist Profits subject to delay by electronic mail to the e-mail address associated with each such Contributing Artist’s account, and each Contributing Artist hereby consents to receive such notification via electronic mail. hitRECord may also provide notice by posting a message on hitRECord, such notice to be in addition to – and not a substitute for – notice by e-mail.
figured I'd post some of the interesting stuff from their "agreement" as an FYI.


Man... my laywer would have a field day with this. LOL

Here's one for everyone to ponder... throughout this entire agreement they only ever refer to "profits, if any, ..." They are never giving any of the content creators 50% of any actual licenses or gross revenue. They only give 50% OF THE PROFIT, after any and all company expenses have been deducted... which is complete [email protected]#$. They didn't make the content, they didn't have to pay for the equipment and the musicians to create the music. all they are doing is creating a portal through which to share your music and then they are going to "try" and license it for you.

With companies that split licensing, they do just that, they split the licensing, not the profits.

who is to say how much the company's operating costs are? The content creators don't get a say in that. If Gordon and the other execs are taking high 6 figure or 7 figure salaries at some point, that is part of the operating costs... so tough to the content creators, all of your licensing goes to pay their salaries... if there is anything left, THEN and only then do you get HALF of it (not even all of it!) So not only is this company taking all of your money to pay themselves... when there is excess money left over, they take an additional 50% for themselves and you are left with the remaining 50%.

Let me give you a cost' breakdown of how this works... A license for TV and film is around $1000.

Let's say they get 1 license a day for the next 180 days... that is $180,000. Yay! The company has 22 full time staff in the Los Angeles area. 22 staff with an average salary $50,000 (that is say $25,000 for entry level employees and over $100,000 for President and other execs). That is $1.1 Mil a year... or $525,000 every 180 days. then you have an office space to house 22 people, which will cost anywhere from $10k to $20k a month in LA... so lets say $15k. So that is an additional $90,000 for six months. Then you have server and hosting costs, internet costs, etc which can all add up to about $5000~$10,000 per month. so let's say $8000. That is $48,000 in 6 months.

Total rough overhead for the company in a 6 month period is probably around $663,000. How much licensing is needed to pay for all that? That's about 3 or 4 licenses a day... probably more because they will probably license stuff waaaay below market value because they think they can "gain credits" by doing so. So it will take them 10 licenses a day or more just to stay afloat... all the while you, as the content creator making the stuff they are licensing... gets $0.

Now... once they do pass the $633,000 in six months mark revenue wise... THEN profit starts kicking in. So if they make $700,000 in a six month period... then there is $67,000 in profit... wahooo!!! Oh wait, the company then takes half of that too!... so there is $33,500 in the "profit pool" to then be split between the thousands (or 10's of thousands) of people who's intellectual property just earned $700,000 in revenue....

and then the company decides how much your share of the 50% should be. You can contest it but there is nothing binding the company to listen to you instead of listening to someone else. And in the comments for the intellectual property, anyone can comment on what they think the splits should be, not just the interested parties. So someone could come along and say your contribution isn't valuable and the company can decide to go with that instead of your claims. So maybe you are Aloe Blacc and you write the song "Wake Me Up" and post it up on the site. A DJ named Avicci comes along and just adds a house kick drum to your song and puts a filter sweep across it in one point... that is it. But now because some idiot in the forum says they feel the kick drum really makes the song, you are deemed to only get 10% of the 50% profit while Avicci gets the other 40% because, hey, someone in the forum said the kick drum really makes the song and the committee at the company saw that and agreed with it... so the fact that you wrote the lyrics, melody, chord progression, tracked all the instruments and sung on it yourself means nothing to them... congrats on your 10%!

And then you can't even get paid until each piece of intellectual property has accrued $500 in payouts... and even then the company can decide to delay your payment for up to a year.

Wow. that sounds like a great deal to me!

To each their own, definitely enter at your own risk. I don't care who is associated with it or how much they have been paid off by a VC firm to be the spokesperson for the company... the devil is in the details. And the details for this company do not look that good.

And just as a final note... people get very emotional and very aggressive when it comes to percentage splits of intellectual property they have created. It has even created some of the most deadly feuds in the music business (Tupac and Biggie hated each other because they couldn't agree on splits for a song they wrote together... they actually started shooting at each other over the mixing console in the control room. True story). And now some arbitrary company is going to tell you how much your creative vision is worth AFTER THE FACT?!?!? That is messed up. just my opinion.
Old 26th June 2018
  #24
oh, and they also keep 100% of any proceeds the Company receives from any third party, such as a television distribution partner, whether directly or indirect.

"Third parties" could also include PRO royalties. Additional syndication licenses. Neighboring rights... sub-contractors/producers, etc. Stuff the intellectual property creators would normally receive additional revenue on.

and because they leave it so broad... they could really apply that clause to almost anything. An ad agency creates a spot for a big brand... because the ad agency pays for the music on behalf of the big brand as a third party contractor, that is now proceeds received from a third party and they can keep 100% of that and not have to share any profits from it.


Like I said... the devil is in the details.
Old 26th June 2018
  #25
Thank you to drBill and Etch-A-Sketch for breaking down the particulars of this company. I am going to steer clear!
Old 26th June 2018
  #26
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
A BIG tip of the hat to mr Etch who did the "further investigation" I eluded to, but was far too lazy to get to. LOL
Old 26th June 2018
  #27
Lives for gear
 

The Company may suspend a distribution of Distributable Contributing Artist Profits for up to two Semi-Annual Periods if the Company is not reasonably capable, in light of its then-current resources, of making a timely distribution.


WHAT?!?!?!
Old 26th June 2018
  #28
Here for the gear
 

"My personal position on contracts is simple: if I am unable to read a contract in 15-20 minutes and understand 90% of its provisions, I throw it away."

- Robert Fripp

Golden advice IMHO.
Old 27th June 2018
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFulford View Post
The Company may suspend a distribution of Distributable Contributing Artist Profits for up to two Semi-Annual Periods if the Company is not reasonably capable, in light of its then-current resources, of making a timely distribution.


WHAT?!?!?!
exactly.
Old 27th June 2018
  #30
another point that I didn't highlight before is this...

Quote:
amounts negotiated by the Company for allocation to Contributing Artists as part of a line item in an approved budget for any usage of the Final Product.
What they are actually talking about is a blanket license but they don't know enough about licensing to know it is a blanket licensing. They call it a "line item in an approved budget".

Basically if they negotiate a blanket rate for all the music up on the site, so the client can use any music on the site as much as they want for a set price... THE COMPANY allocates whatever percentage they want (doesn't even have to be 50%, it could even be 0%).

so they negotiate a $50,000 blanket deal with say FOX promo for a year... FOX can use any music from the site as much as they want for a year. The company then decides how much of that $50k they want to "give" to the content creators and then splits that portion between all of the ones who received uses during that year.
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