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PROs...still a mistery for me! Studio Monitors
Old 1st April 2018
  #31
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Soooo coool......

Old 1st April 2018
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
I don’t know about BMI, but ASCAP collects about $500 mil a year from TV and cable broadcasters and about $60-$65 mil from all radio stations I. The US.
In 2016, it was $759 million in the USA, while BMI was at $784.
Old 1st April 2018
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
In 2016, it was $759 million in the USA, while BMI was at $784.
Nope...it’s around $500 -$550 mil for both ascap and BMI... just found an article on BMI from billboard.

BMI's Revenues, Royalty Distributions Both Top $1 Billion, Though Digital Services Revenue Growth Slows | Billboard

Quote:
Breaking out revenue by source, media revenue -- which includes television, cable and radio -- totaled $524 million, a 6.5 percent increase over the $492 million in collections in fiscal 2016; while general revenue -- which includes background music in stores, hotels, airlines and bars and clubs -- totaled $149 million, up 6.43 percent from the $140 million collected in the prior fiscal year. BMI said it licensed an additional 13,000 businesses last year, which is on top of the 15,000 businesses it added in fiscal 2016.

Meanwhile, the growth of new media revenue -- such as that from digital services like Pandora and Spotify -- slowed, though it was still up 7.24 percent to $163 million from $152 million in fiscal 2016. When that $152 million is compared to how much revenue those services paid BMI in the prior fiscal year, the new media category had enjoyed explosive growth of nearly 51 percent over the nearly $101 million collected in fiscal 2015.
Old 1st April 2018
  #35
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Yess...and they pay me $500 every couple of months..


Nice thing to know....
Old 1st April 2018
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Yess...and they pay me $500 every couple of months..


Nice thing to know....
How much you make has nothing whatsoever to do with how much your PRO takes in. Why would it?
Old 1st April 2018
  #37
$784 mil and $759 mil is total domestic (US) collections, NOT solely TV and cable. In that same article you posted about BMI it says

Quote:
Revenue from all media licensing, including radio, television and cable and satellite entertainment, grew to $492 million, with cable and satellite entertainment accounting for the largest portion of BMI’s domestic revenue for the third consecutive year
Ascap did not list any sort of breakdown for how much tv and cable made...

But you will notice they lump TV, cable and satellite television IN WITH radio so that they can move the money around...

I know for a fact they only collect between $60 to $65 mil every year from the entire radio market.

And while they don’t divulge payouts to specific artists or songs... lawsuits do

Looking at copyright infringement lawsuits you can see how much hit songs make and how the revenue is broken down. blurred lines is a good one to look at as I have mentioned before.

That song had no tv or film sync licenses or tv/cable airplay except for fair use uses because it was so controversial. The lawsuit even states that the majority of the money it made came from ascap royalties to the tune of $14mil!!! Over 80% of that total came from ascap royalties (so $11mil).

What is hard to understand is how that song can get $11 mil from ascap when it only aired on radio and there were so many other songs that were MUCH bigger radio hits that year from Justin Timberlake, Taylor swift, etc.

Clearly, they are spending more than the $60mil they collect from radio for songs that are mainly only radio hits. Where is that extra money coming from??? tv, cable and satellite broadcast collections.
Old 1st April 2018
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
Clearly, they are spending more than the $60mil they collect from radio for songs that are mainly only radio hits. Where is that extra money coming from??? tv, cable and satellite broadcast collections.
Exactly. Great if you're a pop star. Not so great if you're a composer. And BMI does it too.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freshdax View Post
...but HOW do they do any Content ID- or public performance tracking, if they just have the key data (track's name, duration)? Nor GEMA or BMI (the two PROs I've worked/working with), required me to upload any music, and they also never ask for uploading any of my recordings....OR is there an optional way to send them my music?

Also, how are online-usage royalties managed? Do producers also have to fill cue-sheets for those??! (..wondering, as I never heard of it) But most likely the online royalties are extremely low anyway.
Tracking in the USA is done by a company called Nielsen. They use monitoring equipment to collect their information, you can submit music your to them.

Radio stations who are licensees of ASCAP/BMI are ordered to keep and submit data of the music they play.
BMI do this 3 days a week, however ASCAP do it constantly so get more accurate data.

Online usage data is pretty much 100% accurate as it's all digital.

Companies like Tunesat also monitor TV but it is a legal requirement for Music Supervisors at Channels to submit cuesheets, it's the small print in their license with the PROs.

You need to remember that tracking music and audio fingerprint technology is tracking the master recording, not the song (lyrics, melody) itself (I.e the writers) however, as long as the information you provide is correct the writers will be linked to the master recording.

Sometimes there are problems, this is why blockchain is considered to be so important, it can maintain a database of masters and writers together whilst tracking everything.

Alot of people have said they can be their own PRO using blockchain but this is nothing more than wishful thinking.

It would mean Public businesses, Radio, Shops, Online broadcasters and TV channels. Would need to get hundreds of thousands of licenses to play the music from each writer and publisher. PROs simply administer these rights by issuing a license that covers all music in one go.

Unfortunately PROs are pretty much here to stay.
The only alternative is a blockchain powered PRO but then all writers and publishers will need to leave BMI and ASCAP for the new model that is yet to exist.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #40
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drBill's Avatar
While the above may be "technically" correct on most points, in reality (which is where I live and collect royalties), it is far from being anywhere remotely close to correct.

The suggestion that : "Online usage data is pretty much 100% accurate as it's all digital." (haha) and "it is a legal requirement for Music Supervisors at Channels to submit cuesheets" is actually hilarious. Yes, I know this is "supposedly" the rule, but there are so many loopholes and cracks where stuff slips through the "requirements" that at this point, it's almost criminal to suggest that these things are being done appropriately.

Utopia is a nice concept, but reality is where I live, and I've got 20+ pieces of music with over 15 million views each on youtube and AdRev can't even figure out who I am for ONE of them -- much less for all of them. A total joke. Music sup's continuously "forget" to send in cue sheets, and the shows air anyway. They make constant "mistakes" on cue sheets that are never resolved. And the PRO's LOVE this because it gives them plausible deniability - so they can continue to do business behind the curtains in the self-serving ways they always done things. Blockchain and the like are the last thing they want.

Composers will not be paid fairly and/or accurately until there is transparency in the PRO's.
Old 4th April 2018
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica View Post
Blockchain is one of the foundations of a common ID system being floated by the OMI, so it does have everything to do with it. Networks aren't going to negotiate licenses with or pay a million composers. There will always be gatekeepers. It doesn't mean it won't be the end of or a diminishing role of PRO's, it has more to do with individual (mega) publishers/content owners negotiating direct license deals. Gotta remember, as a single composer you have no power. That's why the PRO's were created in the first place.

I do appreciate where you'd like to see this all go- it would amazing. But the logistics of what you're proposing aren't in the cards any time soon.
Hi Vita,

Probably I didn't explain myself adequately when I said that "blockchain has nothing to do with ID system," I meant to say that it is something more than just that. It opens a whole new world of opportunities.
I am way more positive than you about this; I think that sooner or later (as it happened with Napster) the revolution (for good or for bad) will be inevitable. Gatekeepers will be ignored. The blockchain will validate music usage, and the licenses will be transactions in the network.
I even see a futures market of potential music licenses.

Best!
Old 4th April 2018
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by FranRevert View Post
Hi Vita,

Probably I didn't explain myself adequately when I said that "blockchain has nothing to do with ID system," I meant to say that it is something more than just that. It opens a whole new world of opportunities.
I am way more positive than you about this; I think that sooner or later (as it happened with Napster) the revolution (for good or for bad) will be inevitable. Gatekeepers will be ignored. The blockchain will validate music usage, and the licenses will be transactions in the network.
I even see a futures market of potential music licenses.

Best!
In the grand scheme of things, I don’t think music licensing is important enough for people to devote time, people, and money to it. Tech will be used for moving money around first and foremost.

Blockchain isn't this cure-all to fix music licensing.
Old 4th April 2018
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FranRevert View Post
Hi Vita,

Probably I didn't explain myself adequately when I said that "blockchain has nothing to do with ID system," I meant to say that it is something more than just that. It opens a whole new world of opportunities.
I am way more positive than you about this; I think that sooner or later (as it happened with Napster) the revolution (for good or for bad) will be inevitable. Gatekeepers will be ignored. The blockchain will validate music usage, and the licenses will be transactions in the network.
I even see a futures market of potential music licenses.

Best!
I gotcha. It would be super awesome, and that's what blockchain, et al has the potential to become, but not anytime soon. For that to work in the TV/Film/Ad world everyone would have to agree on a unified tracking system and a standard rate card. Any outliers would have to negotiate their own individual license with any and all networks. What do you figure the chances of that are? I figure about the same as everyone agreeing to turn in their gold and fiat for bitcoin.

Now, if you want to talk about a blockchain API becoming the preferred method of reporting, tracking and payment once a PRO or publisher has negotiated a license on behalf of it's composers... maybe. But you'd still have to get everyone to agree to a standard rate card. It's not unheard of- GEMA has something similar, but there's always a way to game the system.

You're talking about such a massive systemic change that it would be akin to congress passing a bill with a single 10% income tax, no loopholes, no deductions, just 10% on all gains. Your 1040 would be 3 lines.

Anyway, the first step is a common ID system... once that's done it's just data that can be used in myriad ways.
Old 5th April 2018
  #44
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Well all I can say is that there are a lot of people very fed with PRS (UK). So much so that three of the biggest ever UK acts are suing them.
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