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Experience with Catch the Moon Music & Others Like This
Old 23rd April 2018
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeWolf View Post
Similar to the lottery?
In a way, yes.

It isn’t totally random. There are variables that composers can control. But there definitely is luck involved in getting successful and staying successful.
Old 2nd October 2018
  #32
Lives for gear
Bump:

Has anyone else taken her course? There's literally no reviews on the web anywhere I can find. Her marketing is very aggressive, and she runs a kind of loss leader challenge on Facebook, then offers her course at $200 per month to get in. You would think there would be people reviewing the course?

It's also curious - why would she want to train hundreds of sync writers to compete with her and her agency?
Old 3rd October 2018
  #33
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LobCity View Post
It's also curious - why would she want to train hundreds of sync writers to compete with her and her agency?
I think that question answers itself.

Reminds me a lot of the SEO industry, thousands of guys selling methods and "loopholes" to make thousands or millions over night, so why weren't they just doing it themselves? Why did they need to bother aggressively marketing a $97 ebook to me? (that i could get right now for $9 if I acted quick!)
Old 3rd October 2018
  #34
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbiterred View Post
I think that question answers itself.
So you think she's finding the sync industry is saturated, and that "coaching" people for $2,500 per head / per year is more revenue than she can create from just syncing her own material?

It's just so over the top. I can't find anyone who will actually say "Yeah, I took her course, and I placed "this song" on "this project". They all talk about what they're learning, how charming she is, and so on, but there's a bunch of people in their facebook group basically asking some of her students "Have you actually had placements?", and they all seem to choose their words very carefully and avoiding giving a direct "Yes".

I am not the paranoid type, and I would obviously be ok with $200 per month if I would be building a revenue stream, but I don't want to throw money at a glorified webinar and some vague suggestion that I might get to talk to some supervisor at some point <<<<< that's pretty much the pitch.
Old 3rd October 2018
  #35
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
What's that old saying from George Bernard Shaw.....

"Those that can, do. Those that can't teach". Or something like that...

Still valid in 2018 IMO.
Old 3rd October 2018
  #36
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LobCity View Post
So you think she's finding the sync industry is saturated, and that "coaching" people for $2,500 per head / per year is more revenue than she can create from just syncing her own material?

It's just so over the top. I can't find anyone who will actually say "Yeah, I took her course, and I placed "this song" on "this project". They all talk about what they're learning, how charming she is, and so on, but there's a bunch of people in their facebook group basically asking some of her students "Have you actually had placements?", and they all seem to choose their words very carefully and avoiding giving a direct "Yes".

I am not the paranoid type, and I would obviously be ok with $200 per month if I would be building a revenue stream, but I don't want to throw money at a glorified webinar and some vague suggestion that I might get to talk to some supervisor at some point <<<<< that's pretty much the pitch.
I think drBill summed it up quite well. It sounds like you've already answered your own questions, I wouldn't keep trying to justify it.

$200 a month can buy a lot of gear/legit courses on production skills that will actually help you make better music which is what we all need to be doing. As far as I can see there is no magic bullet, make music, call/email/connect however you possibly can.

I think drBill also said in the Music Makes Cash thread that you may as well count on supporting yourself in some other way for at least 10 years while you build the chops and portfolio to develop a full-time income, and that the business is also in a rapid state of flux so maybe it's not even legit to think about at this point in time.

I know personally I've been actively pursuing it as a side gig with my regular job and while I'm certainly no-where near able to call it a full-time income replacement it's lead to some interesting opportunities, a decent amount of gear/beer money, and my skills have gotten a million times better which is leading to more opportunities. I do it cause I'd rather be down in the studio most nights than slugging it out at a stinky bar for another night (though I do a lot of that too).

Honestly I've always just loved writing music and the whole self-production thing has been like the rush of learning a new instrument. I'd be down in the studio doing something whether I had any expectations of getting paid or not, but the possibility of getting some juicy placement money out of it makes it a little easier to justify to the SO

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you want to start building a decent little side-income to grow your studio or whatever, you definitely don't need to spend $200 to do it, in fact you would actively be making it **much** harder on yourself. Get some basic gear, start writing, hit up the RF libraries, start making contacts however you possibly can... There are a few great youtube channels that talk about doing this stuff and the art of background music, I can try and find them for you if you like. That's ALL you need.

If you are thinking that you are going to break into the big time and go full-time, this place will provide you with some excellent feedback for free and probably humble you a great deal, again letting you keep your $200.
Old 4th October 2018
  #37
If anyone wants to learn about music licensing and has a spare $200 U.S.D. a month, hit me up.
Old 4th October 2018
  #38
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
If anyone wants to learn about music licensing and has a spare $200 U.S.D. a month, hit me up.
The Inside Job with Desire Inspires - I'll build ya the website if you cut me in.
Old 4th October 2018
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbiterred View Post
The Inside Job with Desire Inspires - I'll build ya the website if you cut me in.
My guy overseas can build a fully functional website for $100 U.S.D.

Can you provide a similar experience for $95 bucks? Also, fill out this contract. Legal stuff to protect me in case you screw up......
Old 4th October 2018
  #40
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
My guy overseas can build a fully functional website for $100 U.S.D.

Can you provide a similar experience for $95 bucks? Also, fill out this contract. Legal stuff to protect me in case you screw up......
How about for $47 I'll sell you an exclusive PDF with all the tools and knowledge you'll need to build your own and start your own side-side-side business creating websites for other hungry clients?

Act now and I'll sell it to you for $29

Ok... Ok... $7!
Old 6th October 2018
  #41
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
What's that old saying from George Bernard Shaw.....

"Those that can, do. Those that can't teach". Or something like that...

Still valid in 2018 IMO.
With all due respect:

In 2018:

The naive play, the sentimentals teach and the realistists work.
Old 17th October 2018
  #42
I took 2 of her courses, one that was a three week challenge Facebook thing which was free. Part her model is to try to help people get their music up to snuff. But Cathy who is the one with one with the connections and knowledge does not run the classes. Her about 25 year old assistances do and Cathy pops in about once a month. I have more experience making and recording songs than everyone combined. The classes were like record a song in this style for this advertising need to pitch to x-y and z and post it on Facebook and we will tell you how good it is. If we like it enough we may want to pitch it.

Cathy has connections in the LA scene and she does run her own licensing company. She and her team are also musicians so your in a weird way competing with them for the same pitches. I spent money on a year long class that was supposed to have webinars with top licensing firms each month and other perks and lesson but as it turned out only 1 licensing firms webinar happened so I got a refund. I found the courses to be mostly pep talks, but I am already spending more than full time in the studio so I am already motivated. I find that I need to first and foremost record music with studio clients and second for the record label. We keep our minds open to sync options and she could get us a deal someday. She liked our work a lot.

They do for a fact get deals for people as they were mentioned in some of the private Facebook classes. She seems to focus on the higher paying deals as they listed the payouts which were in the $10,000 to $80,000.00 range. If you like a community of people to share your music with and get a listen to now and then by the Catch the Moon people and now and then critiqued it could be a good fit. Be aware that most the people are very raw regarding talent and recording knowledge. I found the sales pitches to pay for the next courses and wow have a great day emails from them to be disingenuous and - "not yet another sale pitch" but thats me. Mostly they seemed to be getting people to even be motivated to write a song and record at all. Listening to my music on their crappy lap top speakers during webinars did not give me the feeling they knew anything about audio. Then they were commenting on the bass, the mix, how well it was mastered. Such is the advertising music business I guess. You can see a lot of their videos on Youtube I believe.

Last edited by AudioSoundzz; 17th October 2018 at 03:49 PM..
Old 20th January 2019
  #43
Here for the gear
 

Hi - I've just joined Gearslutz, after finding this thread VERRRY interesting. [Note: I made this post a few minutes ago, before AudioSoundzz's update loaded in my browser. Glad to learn what happened for you.] [Note2: I came up with this cute MaineStream moniker on the spot, and have since learned there's a MaineStreamMusic company, dagnabbit. I have no connection with them.]

I'd like to hear updates, since most of this thread is a year and a half old. AudioSoundzz, You got in on the ground floor -- it's now close to $2K for the year. And drBill, Goodkeys and others, how do you see the scene has changed over this time period? Plus, any and all of you, I have everything to learn about libraries, etc. Orbiterred, if you're still willing to provide a list of good YouTube channels, that would be fantastic. Though I've been a musician all my life and a songwriter for a dozen+ years, with licensing I'm starting from scratch.

I'm a singer and songwriter, used to be based in NYC and Woodstock NY, now in the gorgeous wilds of the Downeast Maine coast. Licensing hadn't occurred to me as a potential income stream for my music till I took Cathy's 5-day freebie course on FB this week, because I was more familiar with singer-songwriter friends just having had success in placing their stems, or the whole instrumental mix minus the vocals. Cathy's pitch-course had some good overview content for a newbie, and good energy (hey, it had better be good when you're selling a primo package!), but the kinds of details I want to know in advance before plunking down that kind of money are lacking. And she didn't respond to an email I sent her 2 days ago with some questions.

What's appealing to me about her pitch--and yes, I'm super-familiar with the bait-and-upsell online guru model, in a LOT of subject areas--is that it seems to promise a one-stop source of information, a working/learning community and potential placement/agenting. When I did my Master's Certificate in Songwriting online with Berkleemusic several years back, it was a great learning experience, intense and demanding, and I met good colleagues and teachers. I liked the collaborative/feedback process. Now that I'm geographically isolated from a lot of in-person musical comrades and resources I had in NY, this was calling out to me.

I think the posts in this thread have persuaded me to follow my gut in 2 ways: yes, licensing could be a good direction for my work; and no, as lonely as the prospect of doing it on my own seems, I need to energetically learn about the licensing scene while writing a LOT of new material. My newbie-ness is daunting, and I'm an older newbie, too. Would be grateful to hear from anyone about how to get started building the kind of community that Cathy presents herself as ready to deliver to clients on a silver platter. Thanks in advance!
Old 20th January 2019
  #44
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LobCity View Post
Bump:

Has anyone else taken her course? There's literally no reviews on the web anywhere I can find. Her marketing is very aggressive, and she runs a kind of loss leader challenge on Facebook, then offers her course at $200 per month to get in. You would think there would be people reviewing the course?

It's also curious - why would she want to train hundreds of sync writers to compete with her and her agency?
=======
I've wondered about that "absence of presence" on the web too, LobCity. I didn't even find this thread in my first couple of searches. It makes me think she may have done a very professional reputation scrub job, at least. With most gurus, it doesn't take much digging to find the gold and the dross about them.
Old 20th January 2019
  #45
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaineStream View Post
What's appealing to me about her pitch--and yes, I'm super-familiar with the bait-and-upsell online guru model, in a LOT of subject areas--is that it seems to promise a one-stop source of information,
IMDb.

Cathy Heller - IMDb


10 credits over 5 years - and no activity in the last 2-3 years. It seems that selling the dream is vastly more lucrative than actually doing it.

Especially since you are waaay behind the curve, and the golden days of big money $20k + licenses are far behind us - unless your name is Bono or Townsend. These days it's $50 micro sync's and thousands of $0.29 to $1.73 performance royalties, while writing 200+ tunes a year to keep up - then in 5-10 years, you're living the dream. That is unless streaming takes over. Oh wait......

So....you can pay someone to hold your hand and sell you a dream. Or you can listen to people on this very forum who have been doing it for 10, 20, 30 years, even longer.

Personally, I've got 323 show series / film credits and thousands of individual shows on my IMDb page. But don't take my word for it.

Use common sense. Good luck.
Old 20th January 2019
  #46
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
IMDb.

Cathy Heller - IMDb


Especially since you are waaay behind the curve, and the golden days of big money $20k + licenses are far behind us - unless your name is Bono or Townsend. These days it's $50 micro sync's and thousands of $0.29 to $1.73 performance royalties, while writing 200+ tunes a year to keep up - then in 5-10 years, you're living the dream. That is unless streaming takes over. Oh wait......

<snip>

Use common sense. Good luck.

Thanks, drBill. Daunting, the picture you describe now. And as I explore this site, which has such a wealth of information, I see there are lots of rabbit holes. Just as a sidebar for-instance, understanding the nuances of legalese that may mean Splice is a bad bet to use; etc. So I'd need a lawyer on board too?

Another Growth Experience.
Best,
Old 4 weeks ago
  #47
Gear Head
 
jthom's Avatar
 

catch the moon continued...

I'm resurrecting this thread as Cathy and Catch the Moon are doing another free 5 day advertisement for their upcoming course (which, for us Canadians, costs just over $2600 with the current exchange rate).

I am new to sync licensing and I gather, from reading this thread, that I might as well not even begin down that road at this point. But before I completely give up, I wanted to ask Dr. Bill - what do you mean exactly about streaming taking over? Forgive my ignorance but how does music streaming relate to the licensing process?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #48
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jthom View Post
how does music streaming relate to the licensing process?
I don't think drBill is referring to music streaming so much as he is referring to netflix/hulu and similar streaming companies (this is music for picture afterall). It seems to be that they are paying a fraction of what cable paid out in royalties which could really hurt the whole back-end model. I'm sure he probably has more to say about it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #49
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jthom View Post
I wanted to ask Dr. Bill - what do you mean exactly about streaming taking over? Forgive my ignorance but how does music streaming relate to the licensing process?
By 2019 one can certainly make the case that streaming (Hulu, AOD, Netflix, etc.) is the future, and that broadcast - especially cable - is the past. Arguably at least.

If you believe that paradigm to be true, you might very well be terrified if you want to make a living in this business. Because from my experience with a variety of shows and films that have played on major channels for over a decade - which were moved over exclusively to streaming a few years ago - that streaming is paying about 94% LESS than cable, which pays less than network TV. Fun times. Mind you, these were classic shows (films mostly) that are classics that have been paying out consistently for years.

And it throws the past, and all of it's methods of working and making a living out the window. Time for new strategies.

So...if you are based on a back end paradigm for earning a living, streaming does not bode well for the future. Signing exclusive contracts with companies that market into cable TV, pay no (or minimal) front end buyout, and offer sync splits and backend becomes far riskier than in the past. Micro syncs up front becomes more attractive. The big payday in the sky where you net $5k+ for a sync - almost extinct unless you are a rockstar with associated catalog.

Questions? Yeah, we've all got em. I've got no crystal ball, but I CAN see a bit into the future by analyzing what's going on in the present.


PS - $2600??????? Serious?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
PS - $2600??????? Serious?
Shameful. What a waste of money.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #51
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jthom View Post
I'm resurrecting this thread as Cathy and Catch the Moon are doing another free 5 day advertisement for their upcoming course (which, for us Canadians, costs just over $2600 with the current exchange rate).

I am new to sync licensing and I gather, from reading this thread, that I might as well not even begin down that road at this point. But before I completely give up, I wanted to ask Dr. Bill - what do you mean exactly about streaming taking over? Forgive my ignorance but how does music streaming relate to the licensing process?
Make 10 cold calls before you go to the event, you'll learn more than anyone else there, because you'll have context to what's being taught.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #52
Lives for gear
 
Amber's Avatar
 

The site alone seems more tailored to people wanting to get their music synced than actually serving those who need music. That tells me all I need to know.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #53
Gear Head
 
jthom's Avatar
 

I asked Cathy the following question during today's live group:

"Hey Cathy - is it true the sync landscape has really changed and that pay, especially licensing for streaming sites like Netflix, is way lower than even a couple years ago?"

Her response:

"no, I haven't seen the fees change for us. I am seeing the opposite. We have an artist who got 27k for a trailer for a Hulu show, we did an end title for a streaming show and it was great"
Old 4 weeks ago
  #54
Gear Head
 
jthom's Avatar
 

update - her response has been verified. on today's live stream she showed us the cheques. she also showed us/read us print offs of this week's emails requesting music and the budgets were pretty impressive.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by jthom View Post
update - her response has been verified. on today's live stream she showed us the cheques. she also showed us/read us print offs of this week's emails requesting music and the budgets were pretty impressive.
Excellent.

Send me the info. I got $20 for you.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #56
Here for the gear
 

I work for Catch The Moon Music, have been a professional producer in the L.A. area for about 5 years. I've had a pretty good amount of success with sync. Songs of mine have been featured on international ads, shows, movies and in-store radio.

It honestly saddens me to see people slamming Cathy Heller, who is one of the kindest people I've ever known. We just wrapped a small sync conference in L.A. called SyncKeepers where we brought in some real heavy hitters from major studios, video game companies, trailer houses and licensing agencies. Lots of panels and networking opportunities. Many of whom our students made direct contacts with through our song listening sessions. It was really fun, and the whole thing felt like a family get together. Everyone cheering everyone else on, seeing everyone growing as songwriters, producers and artists. And celebrating the real breakthroughs folks repped by our agency, and others that have taken what we taught them and started hustling on their own, have had.

There's no "magic bullet" with being successful in sync, nor are we ever telling anyone that's the case. I'm sure there are some folks who didn't feel like they got their money's worth working with us, but I'd say the vast majority feel completely the opposite. What we do isn't for everyone. We create an environment where people can quickly learn what is and isn't working in modern licensing for ads, TV/film, trailers, video games. They can get an honest assessment on a regular basis on where their songwriting is, their production chops, and then we try as much as we can to encourage them to take the next step forward with it so that their songs become highly marketable and songs that we want to pitch.

We're pitching songs on behalf of our students from our library every week. It's a testament to the quality of the work they do in class, as well as the natural talent and experience they bring into it. Some of it also has to do with how well they work with others, as we find there's a special thing that happens when people create something together with a common goal.

I'm not saying that anything the pros said about doing it yourself, learning online, etc. isn't possible. But there's also a TON of bad info out there too. So if you decide to go out on your own, make sure you find mentors who can help you weed through all that. And I wish everyone who wants to learn how to be successful with music licensing the best success, there's definitely tons of opportunity. I see it every day in my inbox with all the briefs that come in, and the deals we make.

-John
Old 4 weeks ago
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanumanchalisa View Post
What we do isn't for everyone.
I agree with that.
Topic:
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