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Music Makes Cash? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 5th December 2017
  #271
Gear Maniac
 
Arcana's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Of course music is being used in new technology. But he completely misses the point. So far that I won't even comment further.

Sure, take advantage of writing for streaming services. Go for it!!
I generally like his videos, but I have to agree on that. Pointing out there's a new market, without mentioning the fact that it pays diddly squat, is a major oversight. Rather baffling really.
Old 5th December 2017
  #272
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Netflix holds back on production company payouts. Production company makes producer pinch pennies. Producer tightens up the purse strings for the director. Director cheaps out and scores via prod music library instead of hiring a dedicated composer. Prod. Music library comes in too expensive, so director goes to an RF library. RF library composers can't make ends meet, so they only use sound libraries instead of musicians. Musicians find a "day gig" cause their sessions dried up. Studios are let go because composers are doing it all in house. And on and on.... It's a "race to the bottom" - bottom line trumps quality and art in general.
What a neat little fictional story, so much more to whine about when you make stuff up lol.

Netflix shows employ dedicated composers, here's a short list you can look up the rest:

House of Cards - Jeff Beal
Stranger Things - Kyle Dixon and Michael Stein
Ozark - Danny Bensi & Saunder Jurriaans
The Defenders - John Paesano
Glow - Craig Wedren
Orange Is the New Black - Gwendolyn Sanford
Narcos - Pedro Bromfman
Old 5th December 2017
  #273
Gear Guru
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Netflix shows employ dedicated composers, here's a short list you can look up the rest:
Well of course they do newguy. Employ composers that is. But if said composers are relying on traditional back end from BMI/ASCAP to make their employment viable and/or profitable, the reality is that they will need to score 100 shows instead of 1 to make the same amount they made off cable shows - all things being equal. Because at this point in the game, BMI/ASCAP is paying roughly 1/100th on Netflix shows as they are on cable shows. No whine, just simple math that is verifiable.

I hope that Jeff & the gang are making their profits on their up front creative fees rather than on back end payouts.
Old 6th December 2017
  #274
Just FYI, Netflix operates in two different ways for its original content.

1) they hire/contract a production company to make a tv show or film for them. That is what they do for House of Cards, Narcos, etc.

2) Netflix itself produces a tv show with its own in-house staff and tries to be the production company in addition to being the distributor.

For 1) it’s a normal deal, no different than doing s show for CBS, FOX, etc.

For 2) the deal Netflix offers the composer is notoriously bad. Really super low fee, complete buyout including direct performance, no money for production or live instruments, etc. The few composers I know who have been approached directly have basically laughed at the deal they were offered and Netflix said it was not negotiable... so they said no.

The composers I know who are hired by an outside production company who is making the show for Netflix usually do ok. Some of the shows have small budgets, but others have decent music budgets, no different than working for any other network.
Old 6th December 2017
  #275
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post

House of Cards - Jeff Beal
Stranger Things - Kyle Dixon and Michael Stein
Ozark - Danny Bensi & Saunder Jurriaans
The Defenders - John Paesano
Glow - Craig Wedren
Orange Is the New Black - Gwendolyn Sanford
Narcos - Pedro Bromfman
all of these shows are not produced directly by Netflix. They are produced by big production companies and Netflix had to bid (and win) the option for those shows. house of cards, the defenders, narcos, etc were all shopped to the big networks and Netflix and Netflix was really aggressive in winning the option agreement to own those shows.

But there is tons of b rated and c rated films and tv shows in Netflix that Netflix made themselves and paid next to nothing to make (and it shows).
Old 6th December 2017
  #276
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I'd be very intrigued to know what the backends are like for a show like House of Cards. Jeff Beals work on that is pretty stunning and to think how much he could be making if it was on a primetime network. I really hope the fee is higher than a usual tv rate to give up such a huge piece of the franchise.

Has anyone seen a decrease in buyout rates recently? The last few buyout offers I've been offered have been way below what I've seen before. Library and for picture. I hope it's not a trend.
Old 6th December 2017
  #277
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Netflix's own developed content is pretty awful to be fair.
Old 7th December 2017
  #278
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz4 View Post
I'd be very intrigued to know what the backends are like for a show like House of Cards. Jeff Beals work on that is pretty stunning and to think how much he could be making if it was on a primetime network. I really hope the fee is higher than a usual tv rate to give up such a huge piece of the franchise.

Has anyone seen a decrease in buyout rates recently? The last few buyout offers I've been offered have been way below what I've seen before. Library and for picture. I hope it's not a trend.
That is a good question... the composers I am mixing for are doing a netflix show that is being produced by Dreamworks.

I know the budget and money are a little lower than what the composers normally get for a regular TV show... and they have no idea what the royalties are going to be like.

I would imagine when Jeff agreed to do this he probably wanted a decent amount of money up front. I have no idea if he got it though... Netflix and the production company that produces House Of Cards (Media Rights Capital, Panic Pictures, and Trigger Street Productions) probably tried to negotiate him down saying they had no money for the show as is standard operating procedure. But I have no idea what he agreed to. I do know they spent $100mil on the first 26 episodes of House Of Cards, which comes out to $3.8 mil an episode... which is right around the same amount as any other big prime time TV show's budget.

The Economics of Netflix's $100 Million New Show - The Atlantic

an interesting little footnote to this article at the end...

Quote:
*This post originally stated that Netflix owned the syndication rights to House of Cards. However, The production company Media Rights Capital own them.
That is pretty stupid of them... they pay $4mil an episode and they don't retain syndication rights?!?! The main production company they bought the show off of still does (Media Rights Capital). That just shows the inexperience and blissful ignorance of the people negotiating these deals at Netflix. Networks like CBS and FOX do get the syndications rights for the same type of deal and the same time of money!

i'm sure now that Netflix has done this a few times, they have learned their lesson... but it just highlights how this whole process is still very much the "wild west" for them and they are flying by the seat of their pants.
Old 7th December 2017
  #279
Old 7th December 2017
  #280
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
That is a good question... the composers I am mixing for are doing a netflix show that is being produced by Dreamworks.

I know the budget and money are a little lower than what the composers normally get for a regular TV show... and they have no idea what the royalties are going to be like.

I would imagine when Jeff agreed to do this he probably wanted a decent amount of money up front. I have no idea if he got it though... Netflix and the production company that produces House Of Cards (Media Rights Capital, Panic Pictures, and Trigger Street Productions) probably tried to negotiate him down saying they had no money for the show as is standard operating procedure. But I have no idea what he agreed to. I do know they spent $100mil on the first 26 episodes of House Of Cards, which comes out to $3.8 mil an episode... which is right around the same amount as any other big prime time TV show's budget.

The Economics of Netflix's $100 Million New Show - The Atlantic

an interesting little footnote to this article at the end...



That is pretty stupid of them... they pay $4mil an episode and they don't retain syndication rights?!?! The main production company they bought the show off of still does (Media Rights Capital). That just shows the inexperience and blissful ignorance of the people negotiating these deals at Netflix. Networks like CBS and FOX do get the syndications rights for the same type of deal and the same time of money!

i'm sure now that Netflix has done this a few times, they have learned their lesson... but it just highlights how this whole process is still very much the "wild west" for them and they are flying by the seat of their pants.

Wait one... I like you Etech, but are you saying the composers are so bad you have to remix them? I mean every since the 90's the composers I know produced a finished product. No "remixing" required. I'm confused what you say you do.
Old 7th December 2017
  #281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Wait one... I like you Etech, but are you saying the composers are so bad you have to remix them? I mean every since the 90's the composers I know produced a finished product. No "remixing" required. I'm confused what you say you do.
LOL... actually it's quite the opposite. The composers are so good and so in demand they do not have time to track, mix and edit their own music. Especially when each tv episode's score is a big orchestral score or hybrid electronic and orchestra score.

While I'm mixing an episode for the composer, the composer has already moved on and is composing the score for the next episode or another episode for a different show (some composers will have anywhere from 2 or 3 shows simultaneously to 10 or more at the same time). It's not worth the composer's time to mix the episode into the required deliverables the show needs for the final dub. So they outsource the mixing to score mixers.

There are a lot of TV shows that have score mixers.

Go to imdb and look up mixers like Jim Hill. Jim mixes/mixed the scores to the TV shows: Empire, Bates Motel, Penny Dreadful, Mad Men, Fargo, Revenge, Resurrection, Vegas, etc..

Look up Phil McGowan. He mixed/mixes the scores for the TV shows: Ozark (on Netflix), The Defenders (on Netflix), Taken, Reign, Salvation, Iron Fist (on Netflix), Emerald City, Vikings, Of Kings and Prophets, etc...

Look up Steve Kaplan. He's recorded and mixed the scores for the TV shows Outlander, Agents of SHIELD, Damien, The Walking Dead, Black Sails, Da Vinci's Demons, Defiance, Constantine, Person of Interest, Battlestar Galactica, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, Human Target, Pushing Daisies, etc...

Look up Rick Riccio. He has mixed the score to almost every episode of the Simpsons.

Look up Noah Scot Snyder he is now mixing the score to each episode of the new Seth MacFarlane TV show "The Orville".

There are a lot of music mixers that not only mix the scores for films but also for TV shows. I think this forum's moderator "Narcoman" also mixes TV show scores in addition to films.
Old 7th December 2017
  #282
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
LOL... actually it's quite the opposite. The composers are so good and so in demand they do not have time to track, mix and edit their own music. Especially when each tv episode's score is a big orchestral score or hybrid electronic and orchestra score.

While I'm mixing an episode for the composer, the composer has already moved on and is composing the score for the next episode or another episode for a different show (some composers will have anywhere from 2 or 3 shows simultaneously to 10 or more at the same time). It's not worth the composer's time to mix the episode into the required deliverables the show needs for the final dub. So they outsource the mixing to score mixers.

There are a lot of TV shows that have score mixers.

Go to imdb and look up mixers like Jim Hill. Jim mixes/mixed the scores to the TV shows: Empire, Bates Motel, Penny Dreadful, Mad Men, Fargo, Revenge, Resurrection, Vegas, etc..

Look up Phil McGowan. He mixed/mixes the scores for the TV shows: Ozark (on Netflix), The Defenders (on Netflix), Taken, Reign, Salvation, Iron Fist (on Netflix), Emerald City, Vikings, Of Kings and Prophets, etc...

Look up Steve Kaplan. He's recorded and mixed the scores for the TV shows Outlander, Agents of SHIELD, Damien, The Walking Dead, Black Sails, Da Vinci's Demons, Defiance, Constantine, Person of Interest, Battlestar Galactica, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, Human Target, Pushing Daisies, etc...

Look up Rick Riccio. He has mixed the score to almost every episode of the Simpsons.

Look up Noah Scot Snyder he is now mixing the score to each episode of the new Seth MacFarlane TV show "The Orville".

There are a lot of music mixers that not only mix the scores for films but also for TV shows. I think this forum's moderator "Narcoman" also mixes TV show scores in addition to films.
Still trying to get my head around this.... so you're the "clean up crew?".... the composer writes it it and moves on, and it's now your "problem" to fit it to the picture? A "re mixer" ... I guess in old world terminology it is...

I'm very familiar with "music editors" ...is that what you do?
Old 7th December 2017
  #283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Still trying to get my head around this.... so you're the "clean up crew?".... the composer writes it it and moves on, and it's now your "problem" to fit it to the picture? That is not a "re mixer" but...snit.... I guess in old world terminology it is...

I'm very familiar with "music editors" ...is that what you do?
On some tv shows there is no music editor, so I will do the checkerboarding and labeling after I mix everything.

I take the 100’s of midi and live tracks that were written to picture and I mix them down with effects and automation into a 5.1 mix, a stereo mix, an A stems stereo mix, a B stems stereo mix, and then a set of 8 to 12 instrument stems for the A set of tracks and 8 to 12 instrument stems for the B set of tracks.

From a pure mixing standpoint it’s no different than mixing anything else. Level balance, EQ, reverb, sometimes delay, compression and other effects... especially when I have raw live tracks to deal with and I’m mixing them in with midi instruments.

The composers will do their own midi demos that get sent to the director and producers for approval. After the demos are approved we track anything that needs to get recorded live and then I do the final mixes. The writing, recording and delivery all happen within a few days. The pace is really quick because there is a new episode every week. The composer will have 2 to 5 days to write 40 to 42 min of music, print it all to audio, record any live instruments, mix it, and deliver it to the dub stage for the final dub and then it starts all over again.

Most composers have a mixer or a few different mixers if they are working on a lot of shows. We are hired by the composer usually, not the production company or the studio. So we are a contractor for the composer.
Old 7th December 2017
  #284
Lives for gear
 

Thank you.... for teaching me that.
Old 7th December 2017
  #285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Still trying to get my head around this.... so you're the "clean up crew?".... the composer writes it it and moves on, and it's now your "problem" to fit it to the picture? A "re mixer" ... I guess in old world terminology it is...

I'm very familiar with "music editors" ...is that what you do?
Also, the mixer I give the music to is the “re mixer”. Their title is technically “re-recording mixer”.

I think the problem here is that you are for some reason thinking that the composer already mixes it. Most composers don’t really mix it. Especially if there is live stuff but even with midi only, they aren’t really mixing it, they just bounce the music out of the players as is. No real mixing happens at all with them.

It’s kind of the old adage... jack of all and master of none or master of one and jack of none. The composers I work for are phenomenal composers, but they don’t really know that much about mixing nor do they even really care to know anything about mixing... nor do they usually have a correctly tuned room acoustically to even mix in. So I can hear things in my room they can’t and I have the experience and ears to know how to fix it sonically and make it sound good.
Old 7th December 2017
  #286
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To back up what Etch mentioned - very few episodic TV film composers mix their own music. 95% of the time, there's just no time to do it. Even films, or maybe I should say ESPECIALLY films these days, there's just no time. A composer is the head of a TEAM - and that's how it works. Orchestrators, Music Prep (copyists), Music Editors, Engineers, Mix Engineers, Programmers, and of course, the never mentioned ghost writers. Without a team, it's extremely difficult to keep the pace. And if you're on 2+ shows as Etch mentioned, it's virtually impossible without a well honed team. Music composition is a team sport.
Old 7th December 2017
  #287
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jazz4's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
That is a good question... the composers I am mixing for are doing a netflix show that is being produced by Dreamworks.

I know the budget and money are a little lower than what the composers normally get for a regular TV show... and they have no idea what the royalties are going to be like.

I would imagine when Jeff agreed to do this he probably wanted a decent amount of money up front. I have no idea if he got it though... Netflix and the production company that produces House Of Cards (Media Rights Capital, Panic Pictures, and Trigger Street Productions) probably tried to negotiate him down saying they had no money for the show as is standard operating procedure. But I have no idea what he agreed to. I do know they spent $100mil on the first 26 episodes of House Of Cards, which comes out to $3.8 mil an episode... which is right around the same amount as any other big prime time TV show's budget.

The Economics of Netflix's $100 Million New Show - The Atlantic

an interesting little footnote to this article at the end...



That is pretty stupid of them... they pay $4mil an episode and they don't retain syndication rights?!?! The main production company they bought the show off of still does (Media Rights Capital). That just shows the inexperience and blissful ignorance of the people negotiating these deals at Netflix. Networks like CBS and FOX do get the syndications rights for the same type of deal and the same time of money!

i'm sure now that Netflix has done this a few times, they have learned their lesson... but it just highlights how this whole process is still very much the "wild west" for them and they are flying by the seat of their pants.
Interesting, thanks. I'm guessing the platform affects the actors' backend too. No way can they pull in the kind of residuals the likes of sitcom actors have on a syndicated network. Don't the Friends cast still earn millions per year each for rebroadcasts? Really surprised to hear Netflix don't retain syndication rights. Smartest guy in tv imo is Jerry Seinfeld, he understood how much money is to be made in holding rights. He's the Paul McCartney of TV.

I sure hope these composers are getting well compensated ahead of time. Tired of hearing "the budget is low."
Old 7th December 2017
  #288
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Troy Engle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Wait one... I like you Etech, but are you saying the composers are so bad you have to remix them? I mean every since the 90's the composers I know produced a finished product. No "remixing" required. I'm confused what you say you do.
I think you might be confusing Mix, Re-mix, and Remix. Etch said he was "mixing". Mixing is setting levels, EQ, effects, etc. If you re-mix. you change the levels EQ, effects, etc, of the original "mix". If you "remix" you chop up bits and pieces of a song, and maybe add new ones, and make something new. It took me a while to figure out that "remix" was not the same as fixing someone's bad mix!

And P.S. most major ex libraries "re-mix" your cues. They have full-time engineers (like Etch), that specialize in mixing the raw files or stems of your cues.
Old 27th December 2017
  #289
Gear interested
 

Joined this summer. Great info and I've gotten a few placements. The good thing is he pays you per song if you get accepted on to the album. So far that's kinda paid for the monthly subscription.
Old 27th December 2017
  #290
Quote:
Originally Posted by guscave View Post
Joined this summer. Great info and I've gotten a few placements. The good thing is he pays you per song if you get accepted on to the album. So far that's kinda paid for the monthly subscription.
Congrats!
Old 13th February 2018
  #291
Here for the gear
 

Wow! Lots of passionate discussion here about my YT channel and products/services. (This is Jesse from Sync My Music, formerly 'Music Makes Cash')

Would LOVE to answer/address any questions or concerns you guys have.

Seems like the most common issues/concerns seem to be:

1) "Is the Syndicate a scam?"
No, the Syndicate is a paid service that offers producers feedback, guidance, mentorship, tutorials & opportunity to licensing gigs from a seasoned veteran in the TV/film business (been making my full-time income since 2009). Members can easily have their membership dues paid off by regularly contributing to monthly opps (provides incentive to "stick with it" as many producers do end up giving up since royalties can take a year to 2 to start showing up). I've also offered custom commercial opps that have paid $1000+. I offer a 7 day trial and a 30-day money back guarantee - and members can cancel whenever they want. If they don't get value from the membership, they shouldn't continue on with it. To date I've only had 1 member who's left because he wasn't satisfied with my feedback (gave him an instant refund). My members consistently give me high remarks and reviews so judging on the marketplace, I'm fairly safe in knowing that I provide a valuable service.

A scam would be selling a service and then not delivering the promised service or offering a totally different service that wasn't being offered.

2) "Producers should just go directly to Libraries themselves - they don't need a service like the Syndicate"

Many of you who feel this way might be looking through the filter of someone who's already established and currently WORKING in the licensing industry. There was a time in the past when I'm sure that wasn't the case and I'm sure you had lots of questions/uncertainties about how to get started, what kind of music to make and what strategies you could employ to make sure your music gets the most/biggest placements. I know that when I first got started, I made TONS of mistakes - made tons of tracks that never ended up getting placed, signed bad deals where I split writer's shares with people who didn't help me write the music, and had no disciplined production schedule to ensure I stayed consistently productive. And back then, there was NOTHING out there to teach me this stuff but I certainly would have at least entertained such a service, even if it wasn't free. Wouldn't you? Would have saved me years of doing things the hard/wrong way. (Time vs. Money value)

Current Syndicate members will attest that I CONSTANTLY tell them to start creating their own direct relationships with music libraries & supervisors (I offer an email submission template to all members to give them a good idea for how to directly approach Libraries). I also tell them that my opps will NOT give any one member a full-time income source - they NEED to get out there a start submitting on their own in order to get enough work and opps to build up their catalogues. I've designed the group to give members enough feedback, guidance and experience submitting to opps that they have the skills and confidence to leave the Syndicate at the end of 12 months. They can obviously stay if they want, but no one is being mislead into thinking they're only path to full-time income is by staying in the Syndicate. And as many of you have pointed out, I do currently have about 200 videos on my YouTube channel that are free to watch at anytime (the feedback on those has been they they are fairly informative, useful and motivating). I've also spent 8+ hours giving feedback for free on tracks submitted by my Subscribers.

3) "Jesse's making both backend (publishing royalties) and up-front (Syndicate dues) from his members."
No that's not true. All publishing rights and royalties go to our distribution partners (libraries, etc.). I take NO backend money from the opps I provide the members. They keep 100% of their writer's share plus any consideration fees offered (usually $50/track which comes out of my pocket).

4) "Jesse created the Syndicate just to get rich and have other producers satisfy his licensing obligations."
I definitely started my education/mentorship business to be profitable (as you ALL likely make music in an attempt to be profitable and make your full-time income). I make NO apologies for creating & running a profitable business that provides a valuable service to its customers (that's the American Dream!), but let me explain WHY I created this business:

In 2016, I ran into a major creative depression - I hit a wall and felt like I was just going to give up on music licensing. I was making good money, but I was isolated and felt like I was just creating cover versions of my previous work (sucks if you've been there). I ended up taking a few months off and brainstormed how I could motivate/encourage myself to get back into the game. The idea of teaching all that I knew about the licensing business (which is very niche and particular) excited me. I also wanted to create an online community of producers who could help each other get through those times of doubt and lack of motivation. Back then I didn't have a clear idea of what I would offer, but over the months and years the Syndicate has taken it's form (mostly shaped from the feedback I get from current members). As I've been mentoring and educating producers for a few years now, I can also say that I feel GOOD about helping others who are just getting started - and I think it's going to feel good to look back on a career where hundreds of producers were driven to succeed from my efforts.

And no, I'm not having the Syndicate members satisfy MY licensing obligations. All of the opps I offer the Syndicate members are separate from my current obligations (yes I still work with many libraries, supervisors, ad agencies, etc.) I brought the new distributors on board once I had a solid group of talented producers that could deliver licensable music. I did that to give members a leg into the business.

5) "Jesse is optimistic about the future of music licensing, but streaming pays so little and he doesn't tell his subscribers this."
You should watch more of my videos because I DO say that current streaming royalties are VERY small (I use words like "laughable" and "not worth printing on a check" in my YouTube videos), BUT...I'm not a pessimist. I don't believe the "good ol days" are behind us - I see NEW entertainment mediums popping up (VR, AR, etc.) that will need music to license. Now obviously I'm not a fortune teller and no one REALLY knows what the future will bring, but you have two choices in terms of your perspective: 1) You can believe the future is bleak and it's just not worth pursuing anymore or 2) You can be open to new avenues of licensing income with changing technologies (like when Cable TV first came out!) and jump on new industries that could become the next multi-billion dollar industry. I choose the 2nd option.

If there are any other questions/concerns you may have, please feel free to reach out! -Jesse
Old 14th February 2018
  #292
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Was wondering if/when you'd show up

A scam would be selling a service and then not delivering the promised service or offering a totally different service that wasn't being offered.

Well, that's ONE way to describe a scam.... but not the only way.

There was a time in the past when I'm sure that wasn't the case and I'm sure you had lots of questions/uncertainties about how to get started, what kind of music to make and what strategies you could employ to make sure your music gets the most/biggest placements.

Well, of course. When I started in '10, I didn't know WTF I was doing, nor did I know anything about the business. But I learned, and slowly but surely worked my way to a six-fig + per year salary - and I did so without paying you, nor anyone like you. I went from zero to hero by myself. And there ain't anything so special about me.

In fact, the only person who gets paid in my little corner of the world, is ME!

Point #3 - good to know.

Tho your post has some good info and clears a thing or two up, I think you are missing the point here.

The point being that you are taking money from people who don't know any better, to provide a service that can easily be employed by anyone and everyone themselves. You make it sound as tho one needs to fork over $25 per track AND $1200 per year to have a legit shot at making money. At least those were the #s I found last year. Well, truth be known - nobody needs to do that. You are feeding off of people's lack of experience and insecurity to make a buck for yourself. And while maybe not a scam, it is predatory in the very least. If you directly hooked composers up with jobs, and made formal introductions to industry people who then hired those composers - that's one thing. But a service that offers feedback, guidance, mentorship, tutorials & opportunity to licensing gigs from a seasoned veteran in the TV/film business ... c'mon. If I did it without the likes of you, so can anyone and everyone else.

Earlier, drBill said this:

Because it's easier to hand over money than do your due diligence and put in some hard (and potentially embarrassing and ego crushing) work.

And that's the gist of it all.

Cheers.

Last edited by Jeff Hayat; 14th February 2018 at 03:30 AM..
Old 14th February 2018
  #293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
You are feeding off of people's lack of experience and insecurity to make a buck for yourself. And while maybe not a scam, it is predatory in the very least.
Ehhh, I'm not so sure it's fair to make such an accusation. That's like saying, "It's BS that IKEA charges $40 for a coffee table that I can assemble myself from cardboard collected from the trash can"...

To me, I've always just viewed Jesse as offering a program that clearly some people find value in and want to buy. Personally, $99/month is too much for my taste but you can be damn sure that if I was investing that kind of dough I'd better see my return in a short amount of time...as soon as I felt the program wasn't working, I'd drop it without hesitation. Who knows, maybe the jokes on us and every one of the "Syndicate" members is not only making their $1200/year back but jumpstarting their career by 5 years and blowing past those "struggle" years we can all relate to?

Like I've said before in this thread, I don't have any skin in the game...I just watch Jesse's videos and have never gotten the feeling that this guy is trying to scam people. Hell, I'm pretty sure he even forgets to mention his "Syndicate" in 9/10 videos...I've had people try to sell me insurance on batting gloves FAR more directly and pushy than Jesse sells his program.
Old 14th February 2018
  #294
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Was wondering if/when you'd show up

A scam would be selling a service and then not delivering the promised service or offering a totally different service that wasn't being offered.

Well, that's ONE way to describe a scam.... but not the only way.

There was a time in the past when I'm sure that wasn't the case and I'm sure you had lots of questions/uncertainties about how to get started, what kind of music to make and what strategies you could employ to make sure your music gets the most/biggest placements.

Well, of course. When I started in '10, I didn't know WTF I was doing, nor did I know anything about the business. But I learned, and slowly but surely worked my way to a six-fig + per year salary - and I did so without paying you, nor anyone like you. I went from zero to hero by myself. And there ain't anything so special about me.

In fact, the only person who gets paid in my little corner of the world, is ME!

Point #3 - good to know.

Tho your post has some good info and clears a thing or two up, I think you are missing the point here.

The point being that you are taking money from people who don't know any better, to provide a service that can easily be employed by anyone and everyone themselves. You make it sound as tho one needs to fork over $25 per track AND $1200 per year to have a legit shot at making money. At least those were the #s I found last year. Well, truth be known - nobody needs to do that. You are feeding off of people's lack of experience and insecurity to make a buck for yourself. And while maybe not a scam, it is predatory in the very least. If you directly hooked composers up with jobs, and made formal introductions to industry people who then hired those composers - that's one thing. But a service that offers feedback, guidance, mentorship, tutorials & opportunity to licensing gigs from a seasoned veteran in the TV/film business ... c'mon. If I did it without the likes of you, so can anyone and everyone else.

Earlier, drBill said this:

Because it's easier to hand over money than do your due diligence and put in some hard (and potentially embarrassing and ego crushing) work.

And that's the gist of it all.

Cheers.
Couldn't agree more. If the dude was genuinely successful and in demand - and from what I've seen I'm not at all convinced tbh - there is no way he would have time to do this little sideline. He's done 100s of videos! I wouldn't have the time myself and I don't know of any other successful composer that would.

Leeching off the desperate imo. I dunno how he can sleep at night. IMO it is quite obvious that this is his core business, not composing!
Old 14th February 2018
  #295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
On some tv shows there is no music editor, so I will do the checkerboarding and labeling after I mix everything.

I take the 100’s of midi and live tracks that were written to picture and I mix them down with effects and automation into a 5.1 mix, a stereo mix, an A stems stereo mix, a B stems stereo mix, and then a set of 8 to 12 instrument stems for the A set of tracks and 8 to 12 instrument stems for the B set of tracks.

From a pure mixing standpoint it’s no different than mixing anything else. Level balance, EQ, reverb, sometimes delay, compression and other effects... especially when I have raw live tracks to deal with and I’m mixing them in with midi instruments.

The composers will do their own midi demos that get sent to the director and producers for approval. After the demos are approved we track anything that needs to get recorded live and then I do the final mixes. The writing, recording and delivery all happen within a few days. The pace is really quick because there is a new episode every week. The composer will have 2 to 5 days to write 40 to 42 min of music, print it all to audio, record any live instruments, mix it, and deliver it to the dub stage for the final dub and then it starts all over again.

Most composers have a mixer or a few different mixers if they are working on a lot of shows. We are hired by the composer usually, not the production company or the studio. So we are a contractor for the composer.
Very cool
Old 14th February 2018
  #296
Gear Maniac
 
Arcana's Avatar
 

Quote:
... the Syndicate is a paid service that offers producers feedback, guidance, mentorship, tutorials
We can discuss all day long whether or not $99 is an appropriate amount for this, but no one to my knowledge provides these things for free.
I'm not sure how deep the feedback is, but whenever I've seen someone offer this it has been around $30 per track.

Sure, one can post in 'Songwriting' but often you might just get a 'nice tune dude' - or if you are lucky, some decent feedback, but most probably not from guy who's in tune with the production music world.

Today, I wouldn't want to pay $99 a month, but 7 years ago, you bet.
That could have saved me a lot of grief trying to figure it all out by myself.

When I started I actually had an 'agent' - he took a 20% cut of my writer's share, just for having an in with KPM. He would get 3 or 4 writers together and make an album which he would then pitch. Now, that I think is exploitation, but I didn't know back then.

I don't agree with the 'pay to submit a track' thing, but paying for feedback, guidance, mentorship and tutorials seems fair to me.
Old 14th February 2018
  #297
Gear Maniac
 
Troy Engle's Avatar
 

I wouldn't call it a scam either. To me a scam is when someone doesn't get anything for their money. I would never recommend his service,or paying anyone to get into this industry for that matter, but we live in a world where people pay a premium for Blue Apron, because they are too lazy to go to the store and buy all the ingredients themselves! I really don't see any difference. If he's happy and his clients are happy, there's not much you can do. To me it's like guitar lessons. Do guitar teachers turn you into a pro..no, but people still pay $100 a month for that. Some students will get a lot better, and others not so much. Just my 2 cents! Carry on!
Old 14th February 2018
  #298
Quote:
Originally Posted by lornemalvo View Post
Leeching off the desperate imo. I dunno how he can sleep at night. IMO it is quite obvious that this is his core business, not composing!
I don't see the issue with that.
Old 14th February 2018
  #299
Here for the gear
 

I've done nothing but MAKE MONEY in the Syndicate and get connected with quality libraries. Jesse never hesitates to help you or answer any questions you have. There a lot of false accusations posted in here. I'm not going to go back and forth and argue with anyone, but how can you knock something so bad if you haven't tried it? And if YOU don't need it, then what's your point in worrying with it and trying your hardest to turn people away from it. You have to spend money to make money. Until you sign up and get inside the syndicate to see how it all goes down and the info and opportunities you get, you can't say anything. Bottom line. I can guarantee if you were actually a part of the group you would have a totally different opinion. I've been producing music for most of my life, but struggled with getting in to the tv/film licensing side of things. Since being in the syndicate I've learned a ton about the business and not only that, but I've got a huge jump start with the opportunities provided within (and again) MADE MONEY and have't paid a dime. Most of ya'll are so amped up about this it's funny. I'm a syndicate member, I'm making money within the syndicate, I'm learning a ton about the business, I'm building relationships with other great producers and most importantly I'm having fun doing it.
Old 14th February 2018
  #300
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
I don't see the issue with that.
That's really great to know.
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