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Apple Loops - Never Again! Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 30th December 2016
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Turner View Post
Oh wow! I totally know Donny! He is--quite literally--the MAN! I often see him, first thing in the morning, when I park :-) I will totally tell him hello!!! As well as Charles and Antoine, though I don't know Antoine, really... (The "guitar" dept, where I am, is sort of in its own universe.)

Well, I hope John does another one of those seminars! I'll make sure to hit it! And hoist a glass with you guys as well :-)

HAPPY NEW YEAR Derek!!!
Dale
Yup, Donny IS the man!!! He and I have been friends since college. We've worked together a lot over the years. Charles and Antoine are pretty amazing too. Charles is hands down one of the best singers I've ever worked with an Antoine is one of the best guitarists I've ever worked with. All three of them are amazing composers too!!
Old 30th December 2016
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
You'd be surprised. For every music sup I talk to that doesn't care, I end up talking to two or three that do. I remember one music sup from Bunim-Murray at a panel that John Fulford hosted at MI in hollywood said that he HATES stock loops. He said he gets about 150 music submissions every day... and in each submission there is between 3 and 10 tracks of audio usually. And he makes it a point to listen to everything...

He was saying that he very quickly identifies loops because he is constantly hearing the same ones used over and over... He said on the panel, if you want to stand out, do something original. When using loops everything becomes homogenized. Everything starts sounding the same... After listening to 1000 tracks in one day... all the tracks that use the same loops start to just blend together in your mind and none of them ever really stand out... and after a couple of days... you will have probably heard the same loops used hundreds if not thousands of times... day in and day out listening to all the new music that comes in... it's the ones that are DIFFERENT, that aren't using all the same stock loops as everyone else, that grab a music sup's attention.

Yes... there are clients who could care less and just go for the path of least resistance... but there are also clients that are looking for originality and uniqueness. You just have to figure out which clients are which and send them music accordingly.

Another sticky situation legally that I've been dealing with a lot lately is the legality of using commercially available/retail loops in music cues where you have to deliver the stems to the client as well. Technically, by the terms of most loop licensing agreements... you are not allowed to distribute or resell the loop on it's own as your own creation... but when you give stems to a client that licenses a track, that is exactly what you are doing... and if the client decides to just use the drum loop for 15 seconds before bringing in any other instruments... you just violated the license agreement with the loop library because now their loop by itself, outside of a musical composition, has your name on it instead of theirs.

As this industry changes, stems are becoming a HUGE topic and a big request with more and more clients. At some point commercial loop libraries may become a thing of the past in favor of sampled virtual instruments and one shots because of this very reason.
That's good to hear, thanks. Kind of underlines what I took from the experience. Whether it equals more or less placements, I'd prefer to have my catalog be at least unique in the fact that there aren't hundreds of other tracks using the same canned stuff as the years pass. With all the creative compromises of writing library music it feels better to at least retain that aspect personally.
Old 3rd January 2017
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
Yup, Donny IS the man!!! He and I have been friends since college. We've worked together a lot over the years. Charles and Antoine are pretty amazing too. Charles is hands down one of the best singers I've ever worked with an Antoine is one of the best guitarists I've ever worked with. All three of them are amazing composers too!!
Oh wow!!!! I didn't know you guys were ol' school chums!! I'm probably off/wrong, but I think a bunch of MI staff cats also went to the same college as Donny.. in FL? (Greg Weiss, Ron Dziubla, Scott Parker...). Perhaps yer pals with them as well? SMALL WORLD, regardless!!!!

I will have to listen to Antoine!!!! What a sick talent pool (Charles, Antoine, Donny... and yourself!) RAD!

Hope your NEW YEAR is off to a rawkin' start, Derek!!! Happy TUES!!!
Dale
Old 3rd January 2017
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Turner View Post
Oh wow!!!! I didn't know you guys were ol' school chums!! I'm probably off/wrong, but I think a bunch of MI staff cats also went to the same college as Donny.. in FL? (Greg Weiss, Ron Dziubla, Scott Parker...). Perhaps yer pals with them as well? SMALL WORLD, regardless!!!!

I will have to listen to Antoine!!!! What a sick talent pool (Charles, Antoine, Donny... and yourself!) RAD!

Hope your NEW YEAR is off to a rawkin' start, Derek!!! Happy TUES!!!
Dale
We all went to Berklee in Boston. Jesse Stern too... I don't know Greg, Ron or Scott though. But it is possible they are all berklee grads as well.
Old 6th January 2017
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etch-A-Sketch View Post
We all went to Berklee in Boston. Jesse Stern too... I don't know Greg, Ron or Scott though. But it is possible they are all berklee grads as well.
Oops!!!! I ventured too far South, lol! (was thinking Florida, for some reason). I know Jesse though...

Have a great upcoming weekend Derek!!
Dale
Old 18th April 2017
  #36
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For what it's worth- I did end up having a track placed in the same show and... it used an Apple conga loop combined with real guitars. So my entire rant proved wrong, but I do think I'll stick to no melody loops from now on and limit use to percussion.
Old 18th April 2017
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by old ghost View Post
For what it's worth- I did end up having a track placed in the same show and... it used an Apple conga loop combined with real guitars. So my entire rant proved wrong, but I do think I'll stick to no melody loops from now on and limit use to percussion.
All is good!
Old 18th April 2017
  #38
007
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Hmm, interesting rant, and now reading all of this, I personally can't fault the Apple loop.
In fact there is nothing or no one to fault, that looks like a typical "client prefers track A to track B" roll of the dice situation.

Yes, I can imagine the frustration you felt when hearing similar tracks to yours ending up on the show you also pitched for, but as someone else mentioned, I doubt the Apple loop is what tipped the scale. I've often found those Apple Loops quite useful when working under on a :30 spot with a tight deadline, and in no way would I even bother mic'ing up a drum kit or recording my bongos at 1 am when the loops are doing a great job with the appropriate fills and transitions to boot.

And if there are vocals on the spot, it matters even less.
While I agree with Etch's excellent post on the matter, from my personal experience with agency producers and clients, when there's a vocal carrying the tune, the Apple Loop is rather insignificant, the voice is king.

I honestly think this type of over-thinking "loops vs. no loops" process, especially in the realm of commercials and mundane bed music on a show is completely counter-intuitive. Create the music as a whole, create an experience and get your audience (and client) engaged, because while some sups do care, well, the majority of them don't give a fvck, that's the cold truth. They're not the cool indie label looking for the next Radiohead, nor are you pitching to be the composer for the next AMC or HBO smash series, that's another story.

I use them when and where I see fit and I have no shame in admitting it, even "as is" with a touch of eq/comp to fit within the mix.
I've won quite a few spots with some Apple juice under the hood, for if it works for the track, it just works, period.
Oh, and so have thousands of other media composers.

Never say never, it's just noise.
Old 18th April 2017
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007 View Post
Hmm, interesting rant, and now reading all of this, I personally can't fault the Apple loop.
In fact there is nothing or no one to fault, that looks like a typical "client prefers track A to track B" roll of the dice situation.

Yes, I can imagine the frustration you felt when hearing similar tracks to yours ending up on the show you also pitched for, but as someone else mentioned, I doubt the Apple loop is what tipped the scale. I've often found those Apple Loops quite useful when working under on a :30 spot with a tight deadline, and in no way would I even bother mic'ing up a drum kit or recording my bongos at 1 am when the loops are doing a great job with the appropriate fills and transitions to boot.

And if there are vocals on the spot, it matters even less.
While I agree with Etch's excellent post on the matter, from my personal experience with agency producers and clients, when there's a vocal carrying the tune, the Apple Loop is rather insignificant, the voice is king.

I honestly think this type of over-thinking "loops vs. no loops" process, especially in the realm of commercials and mundane bed music on a show is completely counter-intuitive. Create the music as a whole, create an experience and get your audience (and client) engaged, because while some sups do care, well, the majority of them don't give a fvck, that's the cold truth. They're not the cool indie label looking for the next Radiohead, nor are you pitching to be the composer for the next AMC or HBO smash series, that's another story.

I use them when and where I see fit and I have no shame in admitting it, even "as is" with a touch of eq/comp to fit within the mix.
I've won quite a few spots with some Apple juice under the hood, for if it works for the track, it just works, period.
Oh, and so have thousands of other media composers.

Never say never, it's just noise.
Yeah I definitely admit to overthinking it... was just really bizarre that the exact same obscure loop I used would be on there. The odds seemed against it but I definitely learned something so all good as DI said.
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