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What is wrong with my impulse response sounds?
Old 24th January 2015
  #1
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What is wrong with my impulse response sounds?

I just don't get it. I've a ESP gtr w/ emg 81/85, saffire pro audio interface, Logic pro, TSE808, TSE X50 (or LeCab, Nadir etc..) and I can't get even near to those crushing metal tones you hear in YouTube etc etc. It's fizzy and thin even if I tweak the gain etc etc. The sound needs always some tweaking but in my case tone sounds bad from the very beginning. Any idea what could be wrong?
Old 24th January 2015
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ioxio View Post
I just don't get it. I've a ESP gtr w/ emg 81/85, saffire pro audio interface, Logic pro, TSE808, TSE X50 (or LeCab, Nadir etc..) and I can't get even near to those crushing metal tones you hear in YouTube etc etc. It's fizzy and thin even if I tweak the gain etc etc. The sound needs always some tweaking but in my case tone sounds bad from the very beginning. Any idea what could be wrong?
Sorry I don't have an answer. I don't have TSE. But can you link to a YouTube video with the sound you want? That would help other people answer your question, and I'm interested to learn about this.
Old 25th January 2015
  #3
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tkaitkai's Avatar
 

I'd highly recommend looking into the following options:

-IK Amplitube 3: Soldano amp, ENGL cabs + amps
-Line 6: POD Farm Metal Shop
-Brainworx: Rockrack
-Ignite Amps: Emissary, NRR-1, The Anvil amps

The impulses you choose can make a world of a difference. For heavier guitar tones, it's usually a good practice to start with close mic positions (0" - 2"). Start with a combination of an SM57 with one of the following: Sennheiser 421/409, Neumann U87, Royer 121, or AKG C414. Experiment with on/off axis positioning and different speaker placement (cap, cone, edge, etc.).

God's Cab and Redwirez 1960A cab (free) are both great impulse packs to start with.

For metal and heavier hardcore, don't go overboard with drive/gain. The key is to double or quad track your guitars with moderate gain and tightly align them - this will give you much more punch/definition, which is important for the guitars to be perceived as heavy.

On the amp itself, try dialing down the midrange a bit. If you need more top end, try boosting the presence before you boost the treble. No need to go nuts, either; often, the exact bass/mid/treble setting you need will only be a few steps off center.

Lastly, while you adjust your settings, always be sure to do so within the context of your mix, and frequently A/B with a reference track.
Old 25th January 2015
  #4
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Thank you all!
Well right now I'm fiddling with impulse responses.I have lepou, ignite amps, audio assault, TSE etc.. Obviously there are differences when compared to "real thing" but it seems that people are getting quite nice sounds out of those plugins. I'm recording metal and I'm quad tracking guitars. What I'm after is kind of a swedish death metal sound. Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41fRwpIGHmg

For some reason my sound with this impulse is quiet, powerless and it lacks that growling. I tried to tweak gain but sound is still quite fizzy.
Mayby I could send some examples!
Old 25th January 2015
  #5
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tkaitkai's Avatar
 

Yeah, it'd definitely help if you posted a clip. You should be able to get pretty close to that using LePou, Amplitube, or Pod Farm.

Are you sure you're routing things correctly? Your plugin chain should look like this:

Pedal/Stomp FX (i.e. TSE 808, etc.) —> Amp simulation (i.e. Le456, Emissary, etc.) —> Impulse Response loader (i.e. LeCab + God's Cab IR)
Old 27th January 2015
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkaitkai View Post
Yeah, it'd definitely help if you posted a clip. You should be able to get pretty close to that using LePou, Amplitube, or Pod Farm.

Are you sure you're routing things correctly? Your plugin chain should look like this:

Pedal/Stomp FX (i.e. TSE 808, etc.) —> Amp simulation (i.e. Le456, Emissary, etc.) —> Impulse Response loader (i.e. LeCab + God's Cab IR)
Yes. It goes exactly like that. I try to post something later.
It feels that there is too much gain but when I turn it lower it loses all the power and sounds more like balalaika. :face palm: Even if I quad track.

It is also weird that people can make it sound like 3D. There are depth and dimensions in the sound. If I quad track I pan 2 gtrs 100% left/right and other 2 somewhere in between. Still it sounds flat and one dimensional.

It would be nice to hear your gtr sounds and what you got in your signal chain.
Old 28th January 2015
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ioxio View Post
Yes. It goes exactly like that. I try to post something later.
It feels that there is too much gain but when I turn it lower it loses all the power and sounds more like balalaika. :face palm: Even if I quad track.

It is also weird that people can make it sound like 3D. There are depth and dimensions in the sound. If I quad track I pan 2 gtrs 100% left/right and other 2 somewhere in between. Still it sounds flat and one dimensional.

It would be nice to hear your gtr sounds and what you got in your signal chain.
Here's a clip I recorded for fun:



Double tracked and did some light editing. Signal chain:

Guitar: LTD ESP EC-1000, Seymour Duncan 59 pickups
Interface: Focusrite 2i2
Pedal: TSE 808
Amp: Ignite Amps Emissary
Cabinet Amplitube's ENGL PRO XXL
Mics: 57 on the cap, condenser on the cone, both close to the grill

Last edited by tkaitkai; 28th January 2015 at 03:23 AM..
Old 28th January 2015
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkaitkai View Post
Here's a clip I recorded for fun:



Double tracked and did some light editing. Signal chain:

Guitar: LTD ESP EC-1000, Seymour Duncan 59 pickups
Interface: Focusrite 2i2
Pedal: TSE 808
Amp: Ignite Amps Emissary
Cabinet Amplitube's ENGL PRO XXL
Mics: 57 on the cap, condenser on the cone, both close to the grill
Sounds cool! Which tuning and string gauge?
I think one of my problem is that I just cannot make the guitars sit in the mix. I make them too loud and EQ wise I don't leave space for bass and whole thing ends sound like muddy…or then I boost highs too much...
Old 28th January 2015
  #9
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tkaitkai's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ioxio View Post
Sounds cool! Which tuning and string gauge?
I think one of my problem is that I just cannot make the guitars sit in the mix. I make them too loud and EQ wise I don't leave space for bass and whole thing ends sound like muddy…or then I boost highs too much...
I used 11 gauge Ernie Ball strings, tuned to Drop C. Nothing crazy!

To get your guitars sitting right in a mix, focus on nailing the tone first. Get it somewhere in the ballpark in solo, but really dial it in to perfection with the drums and bass in. Consistently A/B with a reference track while you do this. In my experience, the order of priorities goes like this:

1. Choose the right amp sim + impulse response
2. Choose the right pedal
3. Dial in the amp's tone settings
4. Dial in the pedal's settings

If you choose the wrong amp + IR, no amount of tone adjustments will make it sound right. By contrast, if you get everything right to begin with, you probably won't have to do much in the mixing phase.

To be honest, while LePou amps are great for certain applications, I have never been able to get a satisfactory high gain tone from them. Amplitube + Emissary, on the other hand, have worked really well for me. YMMV.
Old 28th January 2015
  #10
Here for the gear
 

LePous are quite good but I get the feeling that tone is "almost there" but something is missing. I think I have to try Amplitube.

Thanks for the tips! I think I'll strip them from all plug-ins and start the whole thing again.

…are there any mixing guys available here? We are doing our debut album and I've started to think that maybe I shouldn't mix it to avoid regretting it later :D
Old 28th January 2015
  #11
Two things.

Firstly IR will only ever sound like an EQ on the DI, simply because that's all it's ever used for (frequency attenuation convolution), once you hear it you will never un-hear it and you will never escape that nasty fizz short of the blanket. A real amp recording contains much more between the preamp and console. Best of luck with that stuff but it's a fundamentally ****ty technology in its current state.

Secondly a large part of the sound is the bass guitar. Use your guitar for just the upper mids where it sits, let the bass do the heavy lifting for a meaty sound.
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