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I will give you $20 to design my computer!!
Old 4th January 2015
  #1
Here for the gear
I will give you $20 to design my computer!!

Yes... 20 dollars, american! In ones, fives,tens, or a single Andrew Jackson!!!
Seriously thought... I really will send someone $20 bucks if they'll help me design a computer, one specifically for musical endeavors. I will paypall that isht to you today!

I've been reading through the "today we build our studio pc" thread, and it's awesome ... but also a little overwhelming. I understand a lot of these things sure, but it's not something I enjoy researching and studying or doing. I'd say I'm basically the opposite of brainbotkiller. And I mean that as the utmost of compliments.

My goal is to get a platform that is really good now and will allow for future upgrading/growth (as best we can predict what the future of the components will be)
If it's all parts and I have to put it together, fine. I believe I can do that. If it starts with a barebones package and I adds specific parts to make it what I want/need, I'm good with that. Heck even if you can show me why a laptop fits the bill better than a desktop, I'll listen.

Budget = $1000 (I know, that's like Ford money, not Porsche money, but that's what I got)
Musical endeavors include, recording, mixing, mastering ... general hobbyist home studio stuff. Until I can afford a bunch of nice outboard gear, the computer will be carrying the load for the on-board plugins.
*It will be Windows, but don't consider cost of OS in this, as I'm not sure what platform I'll put on it yet. I could reuse an existing one.
+ I don't need monitors (like the video kind).
+ I have a 500Gb external drive dedicated to my current PC that can be re-purposed.
+ I have a 10k 1Tb internal drive that can be reuse.
+ It must have Firewire as I'm using an Onyx Blackbird as my interface currently. I could potentially use my existing Firewire card, assuming it's compatible withe the new motherboard.

- I don't know that there's much else salvageable from my current PC. But that just means I can keep it as my internet connected (aka porn) computer. Safely isolated from the other segments of my home network.

-I don't know anything about anything (and don't want to) when it comes to specific detail regarding processor/motherboard/chipsets/FSB/BSB and god knows what else happens there. All I know is that there are some required combinations and also debate over best performance vs cost and longevity of the technology. I lean towards longevity in most cases and I will cut cost/performance temporarily if need be. If a solid state drive is radical, but a 10k disk will work pretty well now, then the 10k makes sense as I can start save up for a SSD over the coming months. I would say that logic applies to RAM type vs amount, CPU type, hard drive type vs size. I'm actually looking for something I can continue to build up over the next year, so consider that. However, what I initially build should be complete enough to have me up and running right out of the box ~some assembly required~.

I'm sure this is a woefully iniquity starting point ... so lead me in the direction you need me to go. Ask me the questions you need to ask and I'll be as responsive and informative as I can.

Happy start to your 2015 and Thanks!

-r
Old 5th January 2015
  #2
Lives for gear
 

I'm researching a build at the moment and have really tried to knuckle something down, and I think I am on the right path. My build came in at about $1000 and that was just me picking the stuff I thought appropriate.... Try this for size -

CPU - Intel i7-4790k - $350
MB - Gigabyte GA-Z79X-UD3H-BK - $140
RAM - 16GB Team Extreme 2x8GB Kit - $128
CPU Cooler - Noctua NH-D14 - $80
System HD - Samsung 840 EVO SSD 250 GB - $147
CASE - Fractal Design R4 Blk - $80 (On special on Newegg)
Power Supply - Rosewill 750W - $80 (Still not entirely decided on this one.. I just picked something that on face value would be suitable)

TOTAL - $1005 Those prices are rough... you could probably shop around and save a few bucks here and there. That motherboard will support CPU and RAM upgrades down the track, plenty of IO for your other HDD's you might want to use. A few PCIe and a PCI slot (The PCI slot was important for me for my soundcard).

This is what I am looking at and from my research would be a plenty suitable machine. I too am going to repurpose some 7200 RPM drives I already have.

-Rob

Edit - Regarding Firewire, I'd look at adding an appropriate Firewire card as this Mobo doesn't have it. You may have to do a little dig as to what is the most supported / stable Firewire chipset.
Old 5th January 2015
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by renopowers View Post
Yes... 20 dollars, american! In ones, fives,tens, or a single Andrew Jackson!!!
Seriously thought... I really will send someone $20 bucks if they'll help me design a computer, one specifically for musical endeavors. I will paypall that isht to you today!

I've been reading through the "today we build our studio pc" thread, and it's awesome ... but also a little overwhelming. I understand a lot of these things sure, but it's not something I enjoy researching and studying or doing. I'd say I'm basically the opposite of brainbotkiller. And I mean that as the utmost of compliments.

My goal is to get a platform that is really good now and will allow for future upgrading/growth (as best we can predict what the future of the components will be)
If it's all parts and I have to put it together, fine. I believe I can do that. If it starts with a barebones package and I adds specific parts to make it what I want/need, I'm good with that. Heck even if you can show me why a laptop fits the bill better than a desktop, I'll listen.

Budget = $1000 (I know, that's like Ford money, not Porsche money, but that's what I got)
Musical endeavors include, recording, mixing, mastering ... general hobbyist home studio stuff. Until I can afford a bunch of nice outboard gear, the computer will be carrying the load for the on-board plugins.
*It will be Windows, but don't consider cost of OS in this, as I'm not sure what platform I'll put on it yet. I could reuse an existing one.
+ I don't need monitors (like the video kind).
+ I have a 500Gb external drive dedicated to my current PC that can be re-purposed.
+ I have a 10k 1Tb internal drive that can be reuse.
+ It must have Firewire as I'm using an Onyx Blackbird as my interface currently. I could potentially use my existing Firewire card, assuming it's compatible withe the new motherboard.

- I don't know that there's much else salvageable from my current PC. But that just means I can keep it as my internet connected (aka porn) computer. Safely isolated from the other segments of my home network.

-I don't know anything about anything (and don't want to) when it comes to specific detail regarding processor/motherboard/chipsets/FSB/BSB and god knows what else happens there. All I know is that there are some required combinations and also debate over best performance vs cost and longevity of the technology. I lean towards longevity in most cases and I will cut cost/performance temporarily if need be. If a solid state drive is radical, but a 10k disk will work pretty well now, then the 10k makes sense as I can start save up for a SSD over the coming months. I would say that logic applies to RAM type vs amount, CPU type, hard drive type vs size. I'm actually looking for something I can continue to build up over the next year, so consider that. However, what I initially build should be complete enough to have me up and running right out of the box ~some assembly required~.

I'm sure this is a woefully iniquity starting point ... so lead me in the direction you need me to go. Ask me the questions you need to ask and I'll be as responsive and informative as I can.

Happy start to your 2015 and Thanks!

-r
:P thanks for mentioning me - keep in mind, I do this for a living so it's a little off the cuff from time to time.

I'm happy to help if you need it, though, so let me know.
Old 5th January 2015
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draytone View Post
I'm researching a build at the moment and have really tried to knuckle something down, and I think I am on the right path. My build came in at about $1000 and that was just me picking the stuff I thought appropriate.... Try this for size -

CPU - Intel i7-4790k - $350
MB - Gigabyte GA-Z79X-UD3H-BK - $140
RAM - 16GB Team Extreme 2x8GB Kit - $128
CPU Cooler - Noctua NH-D14 - $80
System HD - Samsung 840 EVO SSD 250 GB - $147
CASE - Fractal Design R4 Blk - $80 (On special on Newegg)
Power Supply - Rosewill 750W - $80 (Still not entirely decided on this one.. I just picked something that on face value would be suitable)

TOTAL - $1005 Those prices are rough... you could probably shop around and save a few bucks here and there. That motherboard will support CPU and RAM upgrades down the track, plenty of IO for your other HDD's you might want to use. A few PCIe and a PCI slot (The PCI slot was important for me for my soundcard).

This is what I am looking at and from my research would be a plenty suitable machine. I too am going to repurpose some 7200 RPM drives I already have.

-Rob

Edit - Regarding Firewire, I'd look at adding an appropriate Firewire card as this Mobo doesn't have it. You may have to do a little dig as to what is the most supported / stable Firewire chipset.
Big nope to that PSU and RAM. Need a secondary hard drive of some kind.
Old 5th January 2015
  #5
Lives for gear
 

I thought the OP had drives he was re-purposing?
Old 6th January 2015
  #6
Lives for gear
 

What PSU and RAM would you recommend? (Not wanting to high jack this thread for my own benefit but I guess we would all like to know what is moreso recommended
Old 6th January 2015
  #7
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draytone View Post
What PSU and RAM would you recommend? (Not wanting to high jack this thread for my own benefit but I guess we would all like to know what is moreso recommended
No worries!

I'm interested in knowing about the RAM as well. I'm assuming there's "better" .. but don't know why/what.

-r
Old 6th January 2015
  #8
Here for the gear
also... is there a clear cut direction between Intel and AMD? My old box is a quad core Phenom the reviews on it back in the day were good. It was cheaper at the time than Intel and I think it did well on Tom's Hardware.
Are there things to consider besides just the speed stuff?? Compatibility wise maybe?
Old 6th January 2015
  #9
Gear Addict
 

Get a Mac.

I'll accept my 20 dollars in cash, check, or money order. Lol =P
Old 6th January 2015
  #10
Do not get an EVO for OS. Samples at most.
Only pick AMD if any Intel is still too expensive. Intel is faster at the same price point and uses much less power (heat, noise, power bill).
Old 6th January 2015
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
Do not get an EVO for OS. Samples at most.
What's wrong with the EVO for OS?

I just ordered one for that very purpose.
Old 6th January 2015
  #12
Lives for gear
 

As for the Drives, since this is a budget box build, with the $150 allocated for drives you are better off getting two 2TB 7200 prm drives for that same amount of money (one for the main and the other for project storage / sample storage). SSD's just get you faster load times, your DAW will basically function the same.

As for power supplies look for a 650 / 750 watt Seasonic on sale for about the same budget amount (Newegg runs them once a month it seems).

If you have a Microcenter nearby, their in-store pricing of the 4790K will be the lowest you can get it for and you will also be likely to find a very cheap but functional case there (they typically have many closeouts - no extra shipping costs and less chance of a dented case).

For a CPU cooler you can save some bucks and still have full overclocking speed (what the 4790K will give you) using a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO which you should easily be able to find for $35.

You owe me a beer if we ever meet up LOL, by the way I'd drop the $20 and just ask for help. It's kind of insulting saying I'll give you 0.2% of what I'm going to spend if you help me.
Old 6th January 2015
  #13
Gear Nut
 

If You want hustle free system and concentrate on making Music then this is the real deal

Parallels 10 Mac = $79.99 (to install Windows on your iMac, great experience for both worlds Huh)

Used iMac 27" i5 Quad core Cpu, 8gb ram= $900
I will give you  to design my computer!!Apple A1312 iMac 27" Mid 2010 i5 Quad Core 2 8GHz Processor 8GB RAM 1TB HD C 885909585090 | eBay
Add a few more Dollars to buy
1. Harddisk Enclosure $12 (for your 1tb Harddrive to have another external drive)
2. Extra Ram 8gb $80 (to Have More power for your iMac)
All = iMac 27"
i5 Quad Core
16gb Ram
1tb Internal HDD
10k 1Tb External Drive
500gb external drive

Total Amount = $1071.99
Old 7th January 2015
  #14
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamslim11 View Post
If You want hustle free system and concentrate on making Music then this is the real deal

Parallels 10 Mac = $79.99 (to install Windows on your iMac, great experience for both worlds Huh)

Used iMac 27" i5 Quad core Cpu, 8gb ram= $900
I will give you  to design my computer!!Apple A1312 iMac 27" Mid 2010 i5 Quad Core 2 8GHz Processor 8GB RAM 1TB HD C 885909585090 | eBay
Add a few more Dollars to buy
1. Harddisk Enclosure $12 (for your 1tb Harddrive to have another external drive)
2. Extra Ram 8gb $80 (to Have More power for your iMac)
All = iMac 27"
i5 Quad Core
16gb Ram
1tb Internal HDD
10k 1Tb External Drive
500gb external drive

Total Amount = $1071.99
This is very interesting... I have to say, I'm not excited to learn a new OS, but moving to windows 8 basically means that anyway. I'm assuming it's as easy to wipe a Mac and put on a fresh OS install as it is with a Windows machine?
This seems like a good option ... I just avoided Mac for so long. I'm a windows guys ... it's what I know.
But it is all in a nice tight package. I hate this stuff!!

-r
Old 7th January 2015
  #15
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
...by the way I'd drop the $20 and just ask for help. It's kind of insulting saying I'll give you 0.2% of what I'm going to spend if you help me.
This was said with a healthy dose of humor... not as an attempt to reset minimum wage rates. If beer tickles your fancy though... I'll buy the first round for sure!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
If you have a Microcenter nearby, their in-store pricing of the 4790K will be the lowest you can get it for and you will also be likely to find a very cheap but functional case there (they typically have many closeouts - no extra shipping costs and less chance of a dented case).
There is one on the south side of Denver. Not too far...
For the motherboard? I feel like that's a critical piece of the puzzle, right? I'm sure there are a half dozen different models that would fit that CPU, but is there a best one ... better yet, ones to stay away from?? And does that affect what memory you can use?

Maybe that's my really the crux of my issue here. Putting a motherboard, CPU and Memory combination together. Drives, cases, power supplies ... all of that stuff is pretty flexible, right. If I get a killer combination of those three things, then wrapping everything around it should be doable.

It seems like that Intel Core i7-4790K (something Haswell) is the popular choice for processor. What mother board and memory would be best paired with it??

{edit} You're freaking kidding me... looking up the i7-4790K I found that the i7-4770K is really the "flagship" processor for intel's i7 line. I swear to god I hate this stuff.{/edit}

-r
Old 7th January 2015
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by redddog View Post
What's wrong with the EVO for OS?

I just ordered one for that very purpose.
It uses triple cell storage, which wears off faster than the pro's for example. Nowadays the SSD wear is beyond 5 years so it should not be a big issue, but since there is continuous writing on the OS drive I am wary, even more because there is not enough experience with these drives and their tech. They also had a major issue in the firmware to start with, which seems fixed now.
But just because I say I would not use them doesn't mean they die in one year from now. It is just the kind of drive I would not use for OS.
Old 7th January 2015
  #17
Lives for gear
 

renopowers, currently for best bang for the buck PC DAW rigs you are looking at overclocking an Intel 4790K 4 core (total build around $1k) or the Intel 5820K 6 core (total build around $1.5K) based on price and DAWbench scores. Given that and your budget the 4790K is the right CPU for you. As for building a DAW box if this is your first time, relax, it's not rocket science, just something you have to carefully do step by step. Having a friend that has done one before to help you along will make it easier. There is info and even videos on the net to guide you. Take your time and watch out for static (especially during this time of year).

As for motherboards to team up with the 4790K, what audio interface will you be using? If you will be using a PCI card(s) interface then the Asus Z97-C will give you three PCI slots and will work nicely as others have used it for this purpose with the 4790K. If your interface will be PCIe card(s) or USB then many more motherboards are good canidates. Many pro builders like the Gigabyte offerings.

As for memory, depending on what motherboard you end up with, it will likely have a downloadable list of compatible memory to use as a guide. Others not on the list may work as well but that list is what the board maker has tested and passed.

Since you have a Microcenter nearby the 4790K will cost you only $250 for an instore purchase. They also run deals there when you buy a CPU from them they will discount some motherboards $40 to $50 so check their online flyer and more importantly ask a saleperson when buying the CPU for a deal. While you are there you can grab a cheap but functional case (I like models that have the hard drives mounted sideways where they are easy to pull out from the side when the case side panel is removed). While there pick up some case fans if the case doesn't include them (the larger the size, the quieter the fan). While there pick up the CPU cooler, Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO if they have it in stock (if not it will be $35 online at many sources). While there pick up a cheap wireless keyboard / mouse. While there pick up a cheap SATA DVD burner. For the rest of what you need you may save some money with careful online buying catching the sales as they happen over the next few weeks. Knowing what you need and it's market and on-sale price will help you determine if Microcenter has a decent price for that particular item. Remember the whole purpose of them selling the CPU and motherboards so cheap is they hope you will buy everything else there too where those items will have a healthy markup.

Looks like you owe me two beers if we ever meet up LOL. Good luck on the build and post your experience / results for others here to learn from.
Old 7th January 2015
  #18
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
It uses triple cell storage, which wears off faster than the pro's for example. Nowadays the SSD wear is beyond 5 years so it should not be a big issue, but since there is continuous writing on the OS drive I am wary, even more because there is not enough experience with these drives and their tech. They also had a major issue in the firmware to start with, which seems fixed now.
But just because I say I would not use them doesn't mean they die in one year from now. It is just the kind of drive I would not use for OS.
Things that use software to boost performance really make me nervous. I'm glad you put some logic behind my fears of the EVO. It's why I spent the extra money on the 840 Pro.
Old 7th January 2015
  #19
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by renopowers View Post
Budget = $1000 (I know, that's like Ford money, not Porsche money, but that's what I got)
Musical endeavors include, recording, mixing, mastering ... general hobbyist home studio stuff.
+ I have a 10k 1Tb internal drive that can be reuse.
+ It must have Firewire as I'm using an Onyx Blackbird as my interface currently. I could potentially use my existing Firewire card, assuming it's compatible withe the new motherboard.
-r
I don't know what your current system is but like you, I have been looking to upgrade to an X99/Haswell system . The only reason i'm looking to upgrade is for the occasional video editing I do (non-professional) and my system takes about 3x realtime to render H.264 mp4 video. As for audio use, my system can take anything I can throw at it. It is a 5 year old Asus P6T-SE with an i7-920 2.66ghz quad core cpu . I have three sticks of 2 Gb Mushkin Black . I have an intel SSD system drive, a 1 Tb Velociraptor where the active audio files are stored/read and two 2Tb WD Black drives for cold storage, restore images, ect . I also have an Onyx, a 1640i that is fine with the P6T onboard firewire . My 5 year old system can capture all 16 mics and do separate headphone mix overdubs without a problem, I run at 64 samples 1.2ms in Reaper. In editing, I have tried to "push it" with dozens of tracks and multiple effects on every channel instead of sends, and it still had no problem . I also use some soft synths and ni maschine after tracking. Like you, I'm a non-professional, enthusiast. If you're just doing audio, tracking, editing, overdubs, I see P6T or similar systems for about 1/4 of your budget. As for future upgrading, the P6T has PCIe slots and $50 cards usually come out to allow connection of future devices...but by that time the newer systems will cost half of what they do today. Nothing wrong with a modern system though. Anyway, a P6T/i7 quad will more than adequately run your Onyx, plenty of channels and vst/vsti . The guys on gearslutz are a wealth of information. I got the P6T/i7 and ram after reading many gearslutz threads and then calling ADK . If you really want a new system, give ADK a call, tell him what your doing and ask if they will sell you a cpu/mobo/ram then use whatever else you already have, that's what I did. I wanted a little faster cpu but they assured me he 920 was more than adequate for audio work. 5 years later the system is still fine for tracking me and my buddies, editing, ect . . I'm not arguing against any of the suggestions here, just posting what is working with my Onyx . Good luck with your build !

btw, check out off lease computersellers (not ebay). I always see complete i7 quad core's real cheap ...if you were closer I have a complete XW8600 3.33 Xeon quad core i'd give you, but the thing is too darn big to ship. It's my bedroom computer and she wants this big "boat anchor" gone ...lol
Good luck with your build !
Old 7th January 2015
  #20
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by renopowers View Post
This is very interesting... I have to say, I'm not excited to learn a new OS, but moving to windows 8 basically means that anyway. I'm assuming it's as easy to wipe a Mac and put on a fresh OS install as it is with a Windows machine?
This seems like a good option ... I just avoided Mac for so long. I'm a windows guys ... it's what I know.
But it is all in a nice tight package. I hate this stuff!!

-r
Its as easy as ABC, its easier to install os x than windows because you don't need any fancy and extra drivers,after the initial installation ,thats why i love MACs, parallels is also well developed and you won't get into any hiccups, if i had the money thats what i would probably buy and use

Quote:
Originally Posted by renopowers View Post
This is very interesting... I have to say, I'm not excited to learn a new OS, but moving to windows 8 basically means that anyway.

-r
Windows 8 aka iOS 8 is a no go zone for Music Production don't try that, and parallels with windows 7 is so perfect on a MAC, thats what i use With FL Studio Producers who come and can't use logic or other MAC only DAWs
Old 7th January 2015
  #21
Gear Head
 

..

Last edited by YZ125; 7th January 2015 at 10:01 PM.. Reason: error, double post
Old 7th January 2015
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
It uses triple cell storage, which wears off faster than the pro's for example. Nowadays the SSD wear is beyond 5 years so it should not be a big issue, but since there is continuous writing on the OS drive I am wary, even more because there is not enough experience with these drives and their tech. They also had a major issue in the firmware to start with, which seems fixed now.
But just because I say I would not use them doesn't mean they die in one year from now. It is just the kind of drive I would not use for OS.
I actually just replaced a failed OS hard drive with a Samsung EVO.

It was very simple to plug in, I had no issues at all and the start up the PC has improved massively.

Just sayin...


.
Old 7th January 2015
  #23
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamslim11 View Post
Windows 8 aka iOS 8 is a no go zone for Music Production don't try that...
If you are referring to Windows 8 specifically, then I would agree. Windows 8.1 on the other hand is very stable. I moved from Win7 to 8.1 and have had zero issues. 8.0 on the other hand was a bit of a nightmare.
Old 7th January 2015
  #24
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by City Beats View Post
Get a Mac.

I'll accept my 20 dollars in cash, check, or money order. Lol =P
lolz
no
Old 7th January 2015
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamslim11 View Post
If You want hustle free system and concentrate on making Music then this is the real deal
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamslim11 View Post
Its as easy as ABC, its easier to install os x than windows because you don't need any fancy and extra drivers,after the initial installation ,thats why i love MACs, parallels is also well developed and you won't get into any hiccups, if i had the money thats what i would probably buy and use
...
Windows 8 aka iOS 8 is a no go zone for Music Production don't try that, and parallels with windows 7 is so perfect on a MAC, thats what i use With FL Smilies
Studio Producers who come and can't use logic or other MAC only DAWs
Hi iamslim11,

are you just joking or it was meant seriously?
Advice kinda like.. if you want to run Windows programs, buy old Mac, which has two times slower processor than recommended i7-4790, and then finish it with another layer of speed decrease (IOs, all emulated hardware) with virtualization software (have you actually tried to run some ASIO applications there and compare its performance to native system with direct access to sound device? what about DPC latency in virtualized machine? disk I/O benchmarks..).
That is, what I call, hustle free system for the real Studio Producer.

Windows 8 aka iOS 8 quote is also bit exaggerated.. Functionally there is not so many significant differences between Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 if used in DAW workload. Generally all mentioned operating systems can be very stable and perform well, unless someone rushed with newer versions and didn't wait for proper software updates from respective software and hardware vendors.

Michal
Old 8th January 2015
  #26
Gear Head
 

he said
Quote:
Originally Posted by renopowers View Post
p,
Musical endeavors include, recording, mixing, mastering ... general hobbyist home studio stuff.

-r
Old 8th January 2015
  #27
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenix View Post
Things that use software to boost performance really make me nervous. I'm glad you put some logic behind my fears of the EVO. It's why I spent the extra money on the 840 Pro.
Actually the 'software to boost performance' features that Samsung offers are independant of EVO or Pro status, they're basically using system RAM to add additional levels of write Caching, and is completely optional.

Also DAW Plus didn't mention that, he was referring to TLC or Triple-Level-Cell Nand where the Nand has MORE than the number of signalling levels or states than MLC uses. TLC = Triple Level Cell, MLC = Multi Level Cell....and TLC is actually misleading as a term anyway but that's tech for you.

2 signalling states is SLC which is used in Enterprise class SSD's (SAS) and was used in the very first SSD's. (1 higher voltage signalling level for the 1, and the lowest state for 0). MLC has more states than SLC so that it can store 2 bits per 'cell', and so TLC refers of course to storing 3 bits per cell...and since there are now so many signalling states, and since these 'reference voltage' states actually CHANGE OVER TIME, the TLC drives wear out faster than MLC which wears faster than SLC... and thus 'bit rot' occurs much faster. The controller adjusts for the 'states' changing voltage over time, but the 'bug' that occured also involved this 'adjusting of reference voltage states over time' not working correctly in EVO class drives...so it's still an emerging and not fully proven tech. This is compounded by the fact that Nand's robustness (aside from SLC/MLC/TLC) overall is REDUCED as the CMOS tech moves to smaller & smaller processes....

So the stated lifespan of the drives indeed *seems* to be plenty of time, but we really don't know the # of drives that may fail 1-2 years out until we get there. Which is why DAW Plus is being (possibly rightfully so) cautious about them.
Old 8th January 2015
  #28
Lives for gear
 
valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leras View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
It uses triple cell storage, which wears off faster than the pro's for example. Nowadays the SSD wear is beyond 5 years so it should not be a big issue, but since there is continuous writing on the OS drive I am wary, even more because there is not enough experience with these drives and their tech. They also had a major issue in the firmware to start with, which seems fixed now.
But just because I say I would not use them doesn't mean they die in one year from now. It is just the kind of drive I would not use for OS.
I actually just replaced a failed OS hard drive with a Samsung EVO.

It was very simple to plug in, I had no issues at all and the start up the PC has improved massively.

Just sayin...


.
And read above for more information on what DAW Plus is referring to...EVO class is using tech that's unproven enough that other SSD makers are only starting to consider moving to TLC. The 'robustness' of TLC depends more on the drive's controller and its ability to constantly adjust to changing voltage references than it does the NAND itself, and is affected by how 'overprivisioned' a drive is (how much spare NAND is included to help 'wear-level' the drive as NAND cells are put out of commission).

Loosely translated: many modern consumer class drives are relying more & more on 'smarter' controller & firmware tricks than they are on the NAND itself, and this will become more & more the case as process shrinks continue to occur (which affects the durability of the NAND at least as much as how many signalling states are used, if not more).
Old 8th January 2015
  #29
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All that being said, I have 1 SLC drive (used for a write-cache for: Smoke/Nuke/Fusion/After Effects), 2 Crucial M500/M550 drives and 1 Samsung 840 EVO. The Crucial & Samsung drives are about the same performance wise (due to being SATA bottlenecked really) and the EVO is used for a framestore for footage that is USED in the compositing process but not written frequently (it's not a write or cache drive, but rather footage that is READ only most of the time). Ie, the EVO's usage is 100% comparable to using the drive for 'samples and sample libraries', as DAW Plus suggests...

My Audio machines are still SSD free largely because I've been waiting on 1TB drives to get cheaper...
Old 8th January 2015
  #30
CPU - Intel i7-4790k - $350
MB - Gigabyte GA-Z79X-UD3H-BK - $140 --> i would recommend this one instead: Motherboards - SABERTOOTH Z97 MARK 2 - ASUS its around the same price. (It has one of the lowest DPC latencys.)
RAM - 16GB Team Extreme 2x8GB Kit - $128
CPU Cooler - Noctua NH-D14 - $80 instead of the Noctua -> get an corsair water system HS100.
System HD - Samsung 840 EVO SSD 250 GB - $147
CASE - Fractal Design R4 Blk - $80 (On special on Newegg)
Power Supply - Rosewill 750W - $80 (Still not entirely decided on this one.. I just picked something that on face value would be suitable)

I would recommend this power supply:

Leises Netzteil DARK POWER PRO 10 | 750W CM be quiet! Silent PSU & Cooling for your PC

For an audio computer, you want the system to be fairly low volume, while providing good power. I would also recommend a passive graphics card, instead of the internal HD GFX, and instead of the i7, a XEON processor, the processeor will be cheaper than the i7, same cpu core, just without the HD graphics, you will get overall a better performance, if you use a external graphics card, because the layer 2 cache is not shared with GPU operation.

Low Power Xeon => means less cooling needed, lower system volume, but costs a little more 406$ , only the cpu.

High Power Xeon =>
http://www.amazon.com/INTEL-Intel-Bx...on+E3-1275L+V3

Rest is ok.

Amazon.com: Intel CM8064601575224S XEON E3-1275L V3 FC-LGA12C 2.7GHZ 8MB TRAY: Computers & Accessories

http://www.amazon.com/Zotac-GeForce-...+graphics+card


The proposed upgrades will cost you around 1200$ all inc, but are totally worth it.
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