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Migrating out of Logic X - Help me choose a new DAW please! MIDI Processors
Old 10th November 2014
  #1
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Jpchartrand's Avatar
Migrating out of Logic X - Help me choose a new DAW please!

OK so I've been trying and exploring new DAWs due to Logic X being too restrictive and incomplete.

Things that I like in Logic X:

Marquee tool
Timeline
Ease of routing
Track Stacks
Color scheme

Things I hate in Logic X:

No assignable FX parameter knob in mixer
APPLE LOOPS - Can't preview audio like in Ableton
FlexPitch - Why is it so hard to change the pitch of a wav??

Recently I've spent a LOT of time customizing Reaper to do pretty much everything I want but I am really missing Ableton/Bitwig's scene view. It's so easy and fun to build tracks with those features.

I really liked bitwig but it lacks the same as what ableton lacks...The ability to change the pitch of previewed samples...Also...Ableton doesn't allow you to change the volume of previewed samples (WTF?!). It seems like every DAW is missing something critical that another one has. Am I being too needy? Do I just lack the knowledge to have these DAWs operate the way I want them to?

Any feedback would be appreciated!
Old 10th November 2014
  #2
Gear Head
 

You mention liking Ableton. Is there something about it that is a dealbreaker for you to where you don't want to use it?
Old 10th November 2014
  #3
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Jpchartrand's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by defdwight View Post
You mention liking Ableton. Is there something about it that is a dealbreaker for you to where you don't want to use it?
I absolutely hate the mixer and routing in Ableton. Also the fact that I can't adjust the volume and pitch of the sample preview is a big deal to me... Are there workarounds?
Old 10th November 2014
  #4
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpchartrand View Post
I absolutely hate the mixer and routing in Ableton. Also the fact that I can't adjust the volume and pitch of the sample preview is a big deal to me... Are there workarounds?
I'm not a fan of the mixer GUI either, mainly the fader which I find far more cumbersome than necessary to manipulate. I don't have any issues with the routing though. What don't you like about the routing?

I don't know of a way to adjust the pitch of a sample when previewing it, but IIRC the volume is adjusted with the metronome volume "knob" on the master bus. Pretty sure that controls the volume of the metronome as well as sample previews, don't know for sure though.

As far as a workaround, I'd probably just audition samples in the browser until I found something close, then drag it over to an empty track in the arrangement to play with the pitch in the clip view. The dragging being the only added motion in the process.
Old 10th November 2014
  #5
I find the time and pitch machine of Logic Pro X to be quite easy and useful. Not a big fan of the flex pitch but destructively pitch shifting the wave worked very well for me in my last remix.
Old 10th November 2014
  #6
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Jpchartrand's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Moe View Post
I find the time and pitch machine of Logic Pro X to be quite easy and useful. Not a big fan of the flex pitch but destructively pitch shifting the wave worked very well for me in my last remix.
Can you please give some instructions on how to use it? Every time I tried it asks for cents and not semitone and it just ends up being a huge pain...
Old 11th November 2014
  #7
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h4nc0's Avatar
100 cents = 1 semitone. You can use Elastique Pitch by Zplane which sounds really good for pitch shifting in any DAW.

Blue knob on master fader in Ableton will control volume for sample preview.

Trust me on this one. No DAW will be perfect.
Old 11th November 2014
  #8
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Jpchartrand's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by h4nc0 View Post
100 cents = 1 semitone. You can use Elastique Pitch by Zplane which sounds really good for pitch shifting in any DAW.

Blue knob on master fader in Ableton will control volume for sample preview.

Trust me on this one. No DAW will be perfect.
Oh I trust you as I have seen it myself. The closest one to perfection I have found is Reaper. However it lacks basic features such as being able to set the default zoom for piano roll, unable to select a part of a wav without having to affect the whole time selection. On the other hand it can do amazing things. Change wav pitch directly on the media item, modify pitch and volume of previewed samples, assignable fx parameter knobs in the mixer, etc... It even has a scene view like ableton now as a third party plugin.
Old 11th November 2014
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by h4nc0 View Post
Trust me on this one. No DAW will be perfect.
+1

Unless you find another DAW that completely blows Logic away, then I'd suggest that you stick to Logic and learn to work with it. They all have their pros and cons.

When Mackie neglected Tracktion I made the move over to Logic. And while I still find the UI and workflow frustrating at times, I've learned to appreciate the versatility and powerful features it has. Much of it I would most likely miss if I switch back to Tracktion again.
Old 11th November 2014
  #10
Gear Addict
Logic 9/X have the most going for them. I see it as halfway between Pro Tools and Ableton. VERY easy to record and edit audio, yet there are a plethora of producer/composer workflow tools. If Apple added the Ableton macro & audio effect rack work flow to Logic, I wouldn't touch another software again. I was super excited for Logic X's "Smart Controls", but it turned out to be a broken, incomplete, and useless attempt.

I've been trying to convince myself to use Ableton recently, mainly because I love the audio effect rack system/macros a LOT; especially to use with Acustica Nebula EQs (the only EQ I'll ever use). The Session view is nice, but I'm not as excited as I once was by it. Maybe I'm just a linear recorder kinda guy.
Old 11th November 2014
  #11
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EastWest Lurker's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpchartrand View Post

Things I hate in Logic X:

1. No assignable FX parameter knob in mixer
2. APPLE LOOPS - Can't preview audio like in Ableton
3. FlexPitch - Why is it so hard to change the pitch of a wav??

1. You can use Smart Controls for this.
2. Sure you can.
3. It isn't, if you know how.
Old 11th November 2014
  #12
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Jpchartrand's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastWest Lurker View Post
1. You can use Smart Controls for this.
2. Sure you can.
3. It isn't, if you know how.
1. Smart controls cannot be viewed as knobs in the mixer view.
2. No you can't. Maybe with Apple Loops but not with every kind of loop. I don't use apple loops so...
3. It is. I know how. Still a pain. Ableton, Reaper, Bitwig, etc... do it so much better.
Old 11th November 2014
  #13
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Moved from Logic to Cubase, very nice. Thinking of reaper now though.

I encourage change of daws. They all work pretty much the same so unless you are thick, there should´t be a problem to get up to speed very quick.
Old 11th November 2014
  #14
h4nco is correct 100 percent is one semitone. In the time and pitch machine you can progressively add the pitch change and preview it before applying. I find the pitch plugins to not sound as natural as modifying the audio wave itself. Here's an example of a remix a just did using the time pitch machine in several areas. The hip/hop break VOX was originally 7 semitones lower. https://soundcloud.com/aloneincrowds...n-crowds-remix
Old 11th November 2014
  #15
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madgansound's Avatar
 

To the OP -

I grabbed Logic 7 when it came out, then 8, then 9 and I refused to grab X as it seemed like more of a visual gimmick/GUI refresh than an upgrade when it came out. I don't use / despise amp sims and don't need a lot of virtual instruments - I enjoy and am fortunate enough to record real instruments in real spaces for my projects mixed with a little MIDI for strings, horns and synths. Eventually because of these factors I started migrating towards Reaper right after Logic X arrived. Now I use it for 85% of what I do and I don't regret spending the time and a little money for tutorials to help learn it for a second. All DAW's are similar and all of our workflows are somewhat similar speaking in 'general' terms. It's the slight differences with everything that can matter as you are finding out. Maybe your solution is not just one tool? It may be different DAW's for different things that you may be working on at any given time. I still find Logic fun and 'easier' to sketch out ideas in sometimes. But anything I start there always gets dragged into Reaper at some point in the process. Sometimes I just like tracking with a RADAR or just using Metric Halo's MIO Console. No bells and whistles, no b.s. - that can be very relaxing and liberating every once and a while. I guess what I'm trying got say is don't put yourself in a box. There doesn't have to be one solution or one DAW to do everything you want to do with music. Tons of different paths to the same end result and none of them incorrect........ and loads of other clichés.

You will find a working solution as you're already well on your way to solving the problem.
Old 12th November 2014
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpchartrand View Post
OK so I've been trying and exploring new DAWs due to Logic X being too restrictive and incomplete.

Things that I like in Logic X:

Marquee tool
Timeline
Ease of routing
Track Stacks
Color scheme

Things I hate in Logic X:

No assignable FX parameter knob in mixer
APPLE LOOPS - Can't preview audio like in Ableton
FlexPitch - Why is it so hard to change the pitch of a wav??

Recently I've spent a LOT of time customizing Reaper to do pretty much everything I want but I am really missing Ableton/Bitwig's scene view. It's so easy and fun to build tracks with those features.

I really liked bitwig but it lacks the same as what ableton lacks...The ability to change the pitch of previewed samples...Also...Ableton doesn't allow you to change the volume of previewed samples (WTF?!). It seems like every DAW is missing something critical that another one has. Am I being too needy? Do I just lack the knowledge to have these DAWs operate the way I want them to?

Any feedback would be appreciated!
If you treat DAWs like instruments it's easier to work with more than one. If Logic is your drum set and Live is your guitar why not combining them to create your music?

I recommend staying with Logic and rethink your workflow or try studio one.
How long did you work with logic?
Old 12th November 2014
  #17
TNM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpchartrand View Post
1. Smart controls cannot be viewed as knobs in the mixer view.
2. No you can't. Maybe with Apple Loops but not with every kind of loop. I don't use apple loops so...
3. It is. I know how. Still a pain. Ableton, Reaper, Bitwig, etc... do it so much better.
geez you are pedantic.

One of the most powerful daws in the world, logic is.

you can preview acid and apple loops with embedded tempo data. They DO need to add a browser than can auto time any kind of file, agreed. In the meantime buy the most basic version of ableton and have it rewired into logic when you want to preview a loop in time that is a format logic doesn't automatically auto stretch. Takes 2 seconds and will all be in sync with your logic project. Or convert your loops to apple loops. DONE.

as far as the pitch, seems you want pitch clip automation. Flex pitch works differently, like melodyne. I guess you mean like in ableton clip view with the pencil that draws pitch. This has it's uses, sure, once again, rewire.

You can transpose clips in logic's inspector view very easily, that's another way. You can just slice up the file and pitch each segment differently with the transpose parameter.

Or, just buy bit****, ableton or creeper.

Enjoy the industry's worst pdc with ableton. LOL. Bitwig 1.1 will be a huge improvement, although you still can't do the basic task of resizing main tracks vertically in the main arranger page. That in itself for me is a complete deal breaker for life until fixed.

Or try PT, very easy and cheap to get into now, and has the auto tempo preview you like of any type of audio file. You will need melodyne or something for the pitch, or once again, rewire ableton.

But don't even know why i answered, as describing logic as too restrictive and incomplete tells me you are looking for something that doesn't exist, as not one single daw does everything perfectly. There's always *something* that you wish it would have from another daw. But sure, try and see that the grass isn't always greener.

Oh, studio one is another option for you. It has the mixer macro controls for it's *included* plugins, auto tempo preview and conform on insertion, and melodyne basic included. But it has 1/5th the performance of logic on mac. As i said, there is always something.

Good luck.
Old 12th November 2014
  #18
TNM
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by the way, as far as changing pitch during preview (or auto conform if the apple loop has embedded pitch data and you have chosen a global project key), that one is not that common. I think Cubase does it too.
Old 12th November 2014
  #19
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Jpchartrand's Avatar
Lol yes I am pedantic and I know it. I blame Reaper for that since it allows so much customization. The weird thing about Reaper is that it doesn't easily do some of the really basic stuff or even not at all (like marquee select a section of the track).

All in all I think I will be using Reaper with Ableton. I'm positive Reaper 5 will be amazing so I have to get used to it.

Logic was great and I still think it's the most intuitive DAW with the best workflow BY FAR. It's unfortunately too slow or limited for what I need to do now. Reaper has beaten it to the curb.
Old 12th November 2014
  #20
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zebastian21's Avatar
 

long time Logic user here, but it sucks for auditioning non apple loops, even the apple loops themselves are slow to play in sync with the song while previewing.
So I've been working with Live rewired to logic for many years now, Ableton is still the best for audio manipulation
Old 13th November 2014
  #21
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EastWest Lurker's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpchartrand View Post
1. Smart controls cannot be viewed as knobs in the mixer view.
2. No you can't. Maybe with Apple Loops but not with every kind of loop. I don't use apple loops so...
3. It is. I know how. Still a pain. Ableton, Reaper, Bitwig, etc... do it so much better.
1. True but you can use them in conjunction with the Mixer.

2. Apple Loops is what YOU mentioned.

3. i am pretty confident that if you were in LA and hired me for a consultation, you would find I could show you ways so that it is not much of a pain.

And for the benefits you get switching to one of the others, you will find equally PITA things in them. That is the way it is with DAWs.
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