The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Any latency using Dante with Burl BMB3?
Old 15th October 2014
  #1
Gear Addict
 

Thread Starter
Any latency using Dante with Burl BMB3?

I consider to buy Burl Audio Mothership B80 with Dante card BMB3 and wonder if anybody played with it?

It seams to be a "packed and repacked" protocol which create latecy.... how much latency is it?
Old 16th October 2014
  #2
Here for the gear
 

Depending on how many gigabit switches you have in your network, Dante latency can be as low as 0.15ms
If you had as many as 10 gigabit switches, which would be a pretty large network, you're looking at around 1ms
Old 17th October 2014
  #4
Gear Addict
 

Thread Starter
Any users of Dante?
Old 22nd October 2014
  #5
Gear Addict
 

Thread Starter
50/50

Eather the latency is SO huge that no slut want to talk about this untill they sell theirs Burl OR there is no latency issue at all!
A perfect converter
Old 24th October 2014
  #6
Lives for gear
 
owensands's Avatar
I asked burl about it(bmb3) and they said it wont be available till january so maybe no one knows yet?
Old 24th October 2014
  #7
If you have latency problems in 2014, I think you need a better computer........
Old 24th October 2014
  #8
Lives for gear
Well, since ultimately it is ASIO or Core to the software, it will be the same as any non-proprietary native system latency.

Dante Virtual Soundcard will have significantly more latency than a dedicated Dante PCIe card.
Old 25th October 2014
  #9
Lives for gear
 

How about if you have that setup just post real world total trip numbers for an apples to apples comparison against other products. Just list your particular setup and the total latency for a particular sample rate (most manufacturers will use 96K sample rate for the lower latency numbers inherent with a higher sample rate). Citing a latency number for one leg of the hardware journey can be viewed as marketing spin as we know drivers are a huge factor in the total latency number. Scope it or if using Windows use this free utility:

RTL Utility | Oblique Audio

Round Trip Latency (RTL), J-Scope Oscilloscope
Old 26th October 2014
  #10
Gear Addict
 
Avast!'s Avatar
Valid tangent:

If using a Mothership via Dante with PT HD software, and deleting the Avid hardware (HD3 cards), what functions would be lost in the fray? Would latency be nominally the same? =)
Old 26th October 2014
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avast! View Post
If using a Mothership via Dante with PT HD software, and deleting the Avid hardware (HD3 cards), what functions would be lost in the fray? Would latency be nominally the same?
No. Pro Tools HDX, using dedicated DSP HDX cards, has the lowest latency, period. Anything else can be considered native, and roughly equivalent to other native ASIO or Core systems. That's the whole point of HDX vs native in general.
Old 28th October 2014
  #12
Gear Addict
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
If you have latency problems in 2014, I think you need a better computer........
Old 26th December 2014
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Just to get this straight, a Burl B2 with Dante can plug straight into my Ethernet port with no interface? Wow
Old 26th December 2014
  #14
Lives for gear
 

The interface is in the unit itself just like with USB interfaces which also "just plug into" your computer.
Old 30th January 2015
  #15
I've heard through a dealer that the Mothership with Dante has been delayed a few more months... No one knows latency times yet for that unit, however, there are a few people who have tried out the focusrite rednet units with favorable results. I wonder what the delay is with BURL. I REALLY want it to be the solution for me
Old 1 week ago
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
Sonic Reducer's Avatar
 

Any more developments regarding Burl and Dante ? I'm seriously considering a Dante B16 and later possibly even moving my B80 from Digilink to Dante.

Do Pro Tools HD and Pro Tools vanilla offer solid performance with a Dante Burl and Dante virtual sound card?
Old 1 week ago
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
Sonic Reducer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avast! View Post
If using a Mothership via Dante with PT HD software, and deleting the Avid hardware (HD3 cards), what functions would be lost in the fray? Would latency be nominally the same? =)
I'd love to know this as well! Can you even do that? I think you would be reduced to 32 I/O in PTHD without Avid hardware. For some reason I'm under the impression you'd have to use Pro Tools vanilla with the Dante Virtual Sound card. Perhaps more experienced voices than mine can illuminate us.

Also curious about the latency.

Clearly Burl likes Dante and I think it's a sound investment to head in that direction with our hardware choices.
Old 1 week ago
  #18
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Just get a little analog mixer and split the mike into that for monitoring!
Old 1 week ago
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
Sonic Reducer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Just get a little analog mixer and split the mike into that for monitoring!
Hello Mr. Olhsson! Firstly, I just want to say that I always devour your posts, you are a fountain of knowledge and wisdom, thank you!

I can see how this would work for a live recording- split the mic (with a Y adapter!?) into the dante converter for recording and into the mixer for monitoring via auxes. Dante Virtual Sound card latency becomes a non-factor.

But what of overdubs? The tracks play out of the DAW via the DVS card into the mixer, the tracks are sent via the auxes to the talent to sing along to, and the overdub input gets split as above ? (split instead of damaging the audio by going through the direct outs of an inferior quality little mixer)

Does this achieve near zero latency for the monitoring despite the use of the Dante Virtual Soundcard ?

And should one consider this to be a preferable solution to acquiring the RedNet PCIe card to reduce the latency and use Pro Tools for the monitor mix?

Why does dante make me question all basic recording routing haha
Old 1 week ago
  #20
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Analog monitoring is always best. Just feed the mix you want to overdub to into the mixer. You can send an echo return too if the singer wants that.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
Sonic Reducer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Analog monitoring is always best. Just feed the mix you want to overdub to into the mixer. You can send an echo return too if the singer wants that.
Perfect, that's what I figured
Old 6 days ago
  #22
Gear Head
 
SonicAxiom's Avatar
I've been using DVS on my main studio laptop (win7x64/Reaper) for almost 3 years for tracking and mixing. It works well as long as you have some kind of separate mixer providing direct monitoring. I achieved this while tracking by splitting incoming signals right after a Yamaha Nuage A16 analog/Dante converter. Once on the Dante network, I used Dante Controller to route them to the laptop (via DVS) and also to a Yamaha DM1000 equipped with an MY16-AUD Dante expansion card. Obviously, there where no latency issues while mixing through DVS, however the quite powerful 8-core i7 cpu struggled to process fx plugins in the DAW while having to manage the NIC's in/out streams. I could launch a lot less plugin instances in a mix with DVS compared to using an Orion32 via USB in spite of the powerful processor.

That's why in the end I purchased the Yamaha Dante Accelerator PCIe card to replace DVS, however requiring a dedicated desktop computer as the laptop obviously can't hold a PCIe card. With this card, I can get latency down to less than 1 ms with virtually limitless fx processing. The PCIe card takes care of the audio streaming (quite massive with up to 128 ins/outs) and the cpu can conventrate on plugin processing. Another great advantage of having that PCIe card is that I can now live-monitor and track VSTi's incl. a massive chain of fx plugins on top of it.

It's important to note that Dante devices of any manufacturer are fully interoparable. A RedNet device, converter or PCIe card of any brand can exchange audio streams with any other Dante enabled device (regardless of the manufacturer) or DVS equipped computer on the network. This is one of the major benefits of Dante.
Old 6 days ago
  #23
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Direct monitoring works better than ANY computer interface!
Old 6 days ago
  #24
Burl themselves recommend the Dante PCIE card
Old 6 days ago
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
Sonic Reducer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
Burl themselves recommend the Dante PCIE card
Interesting.. along WITH their Dante BMB card ? That seems wasteful! Their BMB card alone doesn`t offer sufficient performance?
Does one need something like the Focusrite Red 4Pre to get the most out of the Dante Burl?
Old 6 days ago
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Reducer View Post
Interesting.. along WITH their Dante BMB card ? That seems wasteful! Their BMB card alone doesn`t offer sufficient performance?
Does one need something like the Focusrite Red 4Pre to get the most out of the Dante Burl?
to get the best latency performance, using the DANTE format on your computer, the REDNET pcie card is the way to go,
Old 4 days ago
  #27
Lives for gear
 

As Bob mentions the best monitoring / cues are an analog system. Anything digital adds latency. Think of cues as a feedback loop where a musician reacts / adjusts their playing based on what they hear (like not wearing headphones). Adding delay (latency), messes with that feedback loop and while musicians can make further adjustments based on what latency they are sensitive to, it still screws with their performance.

Now even with using an analog monitoring system the problem comes with doing softsynth overdubs with a very busy mix where likely you need to set high buffers (much higher latency) in the DAW app. Now there is a noticable delay from when you press down a key on the keyboard until when you hear the result. The only decent work around to that is using a second computer which produces that softsyth (set to a low buffer / latency) and then record that overdubbed part just as you would others.

If you are running a business for money, you should have at least 2 computers for redundancy anyways.
Old 4 days ago
  #28
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

The main problem latency creates seems to be comb filtering. Performances become impaired long before it is noticeable to the performers. That makes it a great way to sell more studio time if you are billing by the hour! Just monitoring on speakers solves the problem.
Loading mentioned products ...
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get instant access to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump