The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
GuitarRig 5 Alternatives? Amp Sim & Guitar Effects Plugins
Old 7th August 2014
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
MrMoose's Avatar
 

GuitarRig 5 Alternatives?

Hi guys, I'm just wondering if you have any advice or suggestions in creating a realistic guitar tone on a record using plugins like GuitarRig. What I mean is, to my ears when I dial up a tone in GuitarRig it sounds fake as, cool, but fake as, just as it is it would never fly in a mix. I'm sure if I had an AxeFX or Kemper I would be getting solid sounds but I don't have $3000 or more to buy one of those. At the moment I've been getting a decent sound starting in GuitarRig just to dial in the tone and then trying to fatten it up with other plugins but I guess I'm asking, are there any better options out there? I don't have a killer amp or anything so I'm relying on stuff I can do in the box. I know the technology is at the level but I've been unable to find anything "better than GuitarRig but cheaper than an AxeFX". Any suggestions or tips to beefing up GuitarRig to sound more realistic and full would be very much appreciated!
Old 7th August 2014
  #2
Gear Maniac
What tones are you after? I can get plausible cleans and slightly overdriven tones with amp sims.. I just got s-gear which I really like. For more gain, I crank the gain on my great river preamp or use some od pedals otb. I also like using a tape sim like avid reel tape or slate vtm but that's icing
Old 7th August 2014
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
MrMoose's Avatar
 

Thanks anth, it's the overdriven "wall of guitars" type sounds and leads which sound the least authentic to me, or at least noticably so.

Kochamara, I read that post before, but from my recollection GuitarRig scored well, not that it's not a great product, it is, I was just wondering if there was a more high end option, without going all the way to an axe fx or similar
Old 7th August 2014
  #5
Lives for gear
 
szmola's Avatar
Try Softube Metal Amp Room and Vintage Amp Room.
Old 7th August 2014
  #6
Lives for gear
 
tkaitkai's Avatar
 

Brainworx Rockrack is great for a high gain, "wall of guitars" sound. It's on sale right now for $140. Go demo it out, highly recommended.

You could also look into Amplitube 3 and LePou plugins. As mentioned, Metal Amp Room and S-Gear are also great options.
Old 7th August 2014
  #7
Gear Addict
 
Inceptic's Avatar
 

GuitarRig is not good for high gain. I bought TSE x50 v2.0 when it came out, and it works wonders for high gain metal stuff.

TSE x50
Old 7th August 2014
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Rob King's Avatar
I have been demoing S-gear and it is pretty fabulous! only $99 and the models and effects sound very good. Try the demo.

S-Gear
Old 7th August 2014
  #9
Gear Head
 

+1 for Softube. Been using vintage amp room for years, often after Guitar Rig for it's effects.

I used to be in a band that had an AC30, JMP and Silverface, so it fit perfect. Only three amps, but they are distinct and the mic position has a wide effect.

Also, I usually get better results when I can monitor loud. For me, a big part of a guitar's sound is generated from sympathetic feedback from an amp. It's sustains and breaks up differently.
Old 8th August 2014
  #10
Lives for gear
As an owner of Bogner, Marshall, and Fender amps, I have a really hard time with emulators. They are nothing like what they are trying to emulate. The AxeFX may be a little better, but have you ever heard one with none of the effects turned on? Not great.

I hear what you are saying about doing guitar tones ITB though. It's nice especially when you have an idea at 3 in the morning and can't exactly crank up an amp. I have gotten passable ITB tones with Eleven Free. Here is what i do:

- Plug my guitar into either my homemade tube screamer clone or an Emma Electronic StingBug.

- Run that signal into a LA-610 Mkll preamp taking full advantage of the tubes, and compressor.

- Use an LX480 plugin set to a plate reverb

- Add Delay to taste (usually H-delay).

I get some decent passable tones this way. If I remove the reverb and delay effects, I start hearing those nasty digital artifacts. The better tones come with more gain. Cleaner sounds are also passable, but they are not Fender or Bogner clean.

I realize that you may not have the gear I listed, but I would start with any pedals you have and then playing around with some reverb and delay plugins.
Old 8th August 2014
  #11
Lives for gear
 
ksandvik's Avatar
 

I have not been that happy with Guitar Rig 5 recently, especially C++ destructor crashing bugs that NI ignores even if I emailed them about projects with GR5 that crash when launching them.

Anyway, take a look at S-Gear, very good sounds and if you need more effects, most DAWs have plenty of plug-ins and stomp box emulation plug-ins available.
Old 8th August 2014
  #12
Gear Head
 

I really like the Brainworx Rockrack...You can achieve very nice sounds! I used it as a guitar sound for monitoring during a recording while I was recording the clean signal to reamp it. The band liked it so much that asked me to tell them more about it and the settings that I had and try to do a mix with it first and do the reamp after.

Guitar Rig is nice, too. I like some clean sounds and some delay and reverb effects. But it needs a lot of search. In my opinion Rockrack is more on the plug-n-play side. And it sounds more natural.

Other options...For high gain staff you should check the Peavey Revalver. Many parameters to play with. In our studio, we recorded and mixed death metal guitars for an album only with this.

TSE products must be nice, too. My studio partner like them a lot. He is a guitar player, too. I do not have personal experience with them but I trust him.

About softube...I like and have many of their plugins, but I am not fan of their guitar simulations.

Last thing to remember is that the playing is very important, too. And the process and the control after the recording, etc. For example one of my best bands (Meshuggah) recorded one of their albums with the Cubase plugins. When I read it I was shocked because I never liked the Cubase plugins and sounded fake to me, but I really like the Meshuggah guitar sound. So there are many thing in your chain that you should care for.
Old 8th August 2014
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
MrMoose's Avatar
 

Thank you so much everyone these responses are just what I was looking for, I'm keen to demo all the ones you suggested, something's telling me I think I'm gonna find what I was looking for
Old 8th August 2014
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Avening's Avatar
 

If you already have a nice tube head, another alternative is to grab a direct box (like the new Mesa Boogie Cabclone) and go direct in to your recording interface. There are a bunch of low wattage tube heads out there for sub $500 (Egnater Tweaker comes to mind), and with a product like the Cabclone, you get all the interaction and playability of a real tube head, but you don't need a speaker cab. At least the bare-bones tone will be great, then you can use plugins to add things like delay/verb ect.

Cab Clone Guitar Speaker Cabinet Simulator
Old 8th August 2014
  #15
Gear Addict
 

I'm not a high gain guy, but Amplitube gets it done for me. The custom shop and fender stuff is fantastic.
Old 9th August 2014
  #16
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksandvik View Post
...and if you need more effects, most DAWs have plenty of plug-ins and stomp box emulation plug-ins available.
My guess is that if doesn't like Guitar Rig, he is not going to like stomp box emulators either. I think a better solution to getting closer to a 'real' amp sound is to use real pedals. Running the guitar signal through diodes, transistors, and capacitors adds a little something that plugins can't.
Old 9th August 2014
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
Core's Avatar
 

Sansamp PSA-1 can actually be quite nice if you don't overdo it. Amplitube ain't bad either. I think the trick with both of them is to use less gain than you think you need. If you drench the track in gain it's not going to work well in a mix.
Old 9th August 2014
  #18
Lives for gear
 
tkaitkai's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avening View Post
If you already have a nice tube head, another alternative is to grab a direct box (like the new Mesa Boogie Cabclone) and go direct in to your recording interface. There are a bunch of low wattage tube heads out there for sub $500 (Egnater Tweaker comes to mind), and with a product like the Cabclone, you get all the interaction and playability of a real tube head, but you don't need a speaker cab. At least the bare-bones tone will be great, then you can use plugins to add things like delay/verb ect.

Cab Clone Guitar Speaker Cabinet Simulator
Whoa, that looks awesome, surprised I'm just now hearing about that!

Are there any other similar options? Would love to try something like that, but I don't know if $300 is worth the cost.
Old 9th August 2014
  #19
Gear Addict
 
Blues Bird's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob King View Post
I have been demoing S-gear and it is pretty fabulous! only $99 and the models and effects sound very good. Try the demo.

S-Gear

This !!!
Old 9th August 2014
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Avening's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkaitkai View Post
Whoa, that looks awesome, surprised I'm just now hearing about that!

Are there any other similar options? Would love to try something like that, but I don't know if $300 is worth the cost.
Palmer have been making boxes like this for a while, but they're much more expensive than the Mesa. The Mesa IS the cost-effective option. You could probably DIY a similar type of unit, but the jury is out on how it sounds ...

$300 for what it does is pretty fair to me.
Old 10th August 2014
  #21
It's still an unfortunate truth that amp sims are still not great at big gutsy guitar sounds,also[at times] I find Guitar Rig 5 Pro lacking a little more in this area than say Amplitube 3,though not by much.

I used a Guitar Rig on a song "Alone" on my soundcloud,but Amplitube on "My Airships Caught in the Power Lines",and on "Nutshell" I used my Marshall 2203 with 4x12 Greenback Celestions mic'ed off axis,with a 58.

Guitar Rig is good for clean sounds especially my most recent song-"Black C" that's just the Roland Jazz Chorus,mixed with a "plexi' with the gain turned right down and tweaked[like they ALL are].

Iv'e tried Scuffman,and quite a few others[many!],though Iv'e yet to invest in something like the expensive Amp Modellers,when I have a perfectly good marshall[plus others sitting right here] The reason I ended up using amp sims like Guitar Rig or Amplitube 3 on those other songs was because they were supposed to be "scratch" tracks,but turned out usable enough not to bother going back and doing it again with a mic'ed marshall,so they do have their place it just takes a LOT of tweaking sometimes.

Sometimes a de-esser gets rid of some of the "fizz" of the high gain settings on the amp sims,also I sometimes use a Boss DS-1 before the audio interface,along with a NS-2 noise suppressor in "send -return" mode,but usually I find Amplitube 3 is better at the "High Gain" type sounds,though they are what they are.
Bob
Old 10th August 2014
  #22
I'm gonna agree with everyone that GR5 is "just not there" - yet, I think the same can be said for every single plugin and/or hardware box. Yes, that includes the Axe and Kemper (and yes, I have plenty of experience with both)!!!

The truth is, you'll never get "Oh My GAWD" sounds out of plugins - hell, I helped develop a product to help a bit with that, and even I know the limitations - but you can get a lot closer than many here seem to think. The trick is to tweak, tweak, tweak - if you try to do "simple" patches (single amps with single cabs and single mics), it just won't do it. You'll have (IMHO and E) much better luck if you spend a lot of time developing patches that do what you want in more "processed", "complicated" ways. Have fun with the splitters, using multiple amps and cabs, comps between amp and cab, parallel paths, and so on - you'd be surprised with what is possible. You can get more than usable sounds out of GR5 in that way - but it isn't going to be quick or easy.

Actually, given that I own pretty much all the plugin guitar processors, I have to say that GR5 does a better job than most once you get down to tweaking. Amplitube, ReValver (a good one), Scuffham, and the others (especially Softube) pretty much assume you are going to use the plugin as a straight "plug-and-play" affair. They can do complex routings, but they don't make it easy. That makes them pretty much "you get what you see" - meaning if you aren't happy with the sound, you're gonna have to go outside the plugin to process it. GR5 is the opposite - its modular nature makes it really easy to tweak and tweak and tweak, and there are no real limitations in how you route things. It also doesn't sound half bad, once you get used to always replacing the cab with CR Pro and tweaking. That being said, it has the worst presets of any of them!

If you want something more "naturalistic", I actually think Peavey's product does a really good job. YMMV, of course...
Old 11th August 2014
  #23
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dented42ford View Post
I'm gonna agree with everyone that GR5 is "just not there" - yet, I think the same can be said for every single plugin and/or hardware box. Yes, that includes the Axe and Kemper (and yes, I have plenty of experience with both)!!!
No argument there. I think if you have ever actually owned a nice tube amp, you can immediately tell the difference. I have owned Marshalls, Fenders, and Bogners. None, and i mean NONE of these emulators are like the amps they try to emulate. They can sound ok when you throw all the built in effects on them, but then they sound like plastic, and you can still hear the nasty little digital artifacts. I like them because you can write with them at 3:00 in the morning without waking anybody up. They are great tools for that sort of thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dented42ford View Post
The truth is, you'll never get "Oh My GAWD" sounds out of plugins
I agree for the most part. The Lexicon PCM Native however was good enough to make me want me to sell my PCM 70 and 80. The LX480 was good enough to save me from spending $5K on a used Lexicon 480l. I had a really big "oh My GAWD" grin on my face when I heard it for the first time. It still brings a big smile to my face. Reverbs are a slightly different animal. They are basically algorithms where as with amps you are dealing with tubes, diodes, transformers, etc., that are part of the sound. Unfortunately, the technology isn't quite there yet in terms of emulating those components. They have been trying for many, many years. I'm just glad that tubes haven't gone the way of the dinosaur the way they predicted years ago.
Old 19th August 2015
  #24
Gear Nut
 

hey bud- i felt the same way, until i found some really killer impulse responses for cabs. i find that most companies do a pretty decent job at modeling the head/amps but the cab sims always fall REAL short. i use the guitar rig 5 head sims almost exclusively, (to me, the jcm 800 model and jump plexi model sound really great) and then i downloaded some IR from rosen.digital - they have AWESOME cab sims for like 8 dollars per cab sim. most amp sims just never sound right; i just recorded my bands record, i used guitar rig 5 jcm 800/jump plexi for dirty sounds, and the fender twin sim/roland 120 sim for cleans, along side with the rosen digital cab sims, and man they really sound good. the record is out now, and there isn't a single person that i've showed the record to that has been able to tell they arent real amps. lepou plugins has some cool stuff too- i use their plug in "le cab" to load my cab impulse responses. definitely worth at least checking out!
Old 19th August 2015
  #25
Lives for gear
I used all of them and I loved th2 before I recently found recabinet 4, it has it cab impulses,mics and amps. No digital feel,built in filters ect. It's the closest di guitar sim I've ever used to date. I'm running a Les Paul studio,through a great River pre,Rosetta 200 and it sounds like axe and in the same ball park. Truely a gem not many talk about.

Before using it I had to use like 4 plugins on top with little tricks like lpf pretty low then boost to bring back in,console emulation,and then add cab impulse plugins to tame rough edges . No need with this. Seen a lot of people compare it to schuffman and axe. Pick a preset you roughly like then a few tweaks to your liking and your off. It's actually inspired me step away from ableton more and migrate back into logic to work on more guitar based tracks along side my ableton stuff. Can't wait to play more with it this week. Cpu hit seems lower than others, allowing me to record at lower sample rates with no hiccups. Check it out or at least demo it.

Last edited by mattg082; 19th August 2015 at 07:12 AM..
Old 4th September 2015
  #26
Gear Nut
 
Hitrate's Avatar
Thanks for your input guys, this thread is gold :D I've been fiddling with guitar rig for a few years, and am looking for the better alternative, will evaluate the different options as per you guys' advice, before potentially investing in some real tubes if I'm not satisfied.
Old 4th September 2015
  #27
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitrate View Post
Thanks for your input guys, this thread is gold :D I've been fiddling with guitar rig for a few years, and am looking for the better alternative, will evaluate the different options as per you guys' advice, before potentially investing in some real tubes if I'm not satisfied.
Check Bias Desktop, if not already familiar with it. IMO none of the current plugs can deliver excactly what I'm after, but while making my own music at home Bias is okayish enough. Sounds like guitar to me
Old 4th September 2015
  #28
Amplitube 3 Mesa-Boogie sounds real good!
Old 4th September 2015
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
Fab Macedo's Avatar
You can't go wrong with S-Gear 2.5 the best I ever tried, killer sound and it feels amazing
Old 4th September 2015
  #30
Lives for gear
 
ksandvik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
My guess is that if doesn't like Guitar Rig, he is not going to like stomp box emulators either. I think a better solution to getting closer to a 'real' amp sound is to use real pedals. Running the guitar signal through diodes, transistors, and capacitors adds a little something that plugins can't.
Yep, most of my pedalboard is analog pedals. However, you could get pretty far with very processed sounds in recordings with pure DAW plug-in solutions. A lot of contemporary guitar music has super-processed guitars, anyway.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump