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UAD Lexcicon 224 - is it me, or is it just like it is? Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 2nd August 2014
  #1
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
UAD Lexcicon 224 - is it me, or is it just like it is?

Because of the positive LX 480 thread I gave the UAD 224 a second try with hope it will make me lucky this time.

But I have to ask:
Can someone please explain me the euphoria about this plug in?

I gave it a try and it sounds small, without depth-dimension, nothing to go crazy about. Even one of my Alesis Midiverb II eats it in seconds on lead guitar. You just dial in any program of the MV and the guitar is surrounded by a space. If you switch over to the UAD LX 224 there is no space, just a point of reverb. The 224 is more flat, no matter what I dial in. I even read the manual because I thought I am doing something wrong. If you give the 224 more input level it starts to sound but the space is nothing I would go WOW about. Its washy..... sounds like a bath room.

I have my doubts that the hardware sounded like the plug in?
And if yes, why people go crazy about it?

Or am I doing something wrong with it?
Or is it just another UAD marketing "blah we did it" plug in?
Old 3rd August 2014
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
Because of the positive LX 480 thread I gave the UAD 224 a second try with hope it will make me lucky this time.

But I have to ask:
Can someone please explain me the euphoria about this plug in?

I gave it a try and it sounds small, without depth-dimension, nothing to go crazy about. Even one of my Alesis Midiverb II eats it in seconds on lead guitar. You just dial in any program of the MV and the guitar is surrounded by a space. If you switch over to the UAD LX 224 there is no space, just a point of reverb. The 224 is more flat, no matter what I dial in. I even read the manual because I thought I am doing something wrong. If you give the 224 more input level it starts to sound but the space is nothing I would go WOW about. Its washy..... sounds like a bath room.

I have my doubts that the hardware sounded like the plug in?
And if yes, why people go crazy about it?

Or am I doing something wrong with it?
Or is it just another UAD marketing "blah we did it" plug in?


I would start off by asking just how you are using the UAD 224? Aux Send or Inline track, Sub Group and or End of Master Bus etc. Have you seen the Youtube tutorials on the way to use the Plug In and the Various uses just on those Videos it shows! I'm thinking possibly your not using it to it's fullest extent and/or have the amount in an Aux send turned down to a degree and not 100% wet etc.

Please.......Your uses Sir!

Regards
TheLastByte
Old 3rd August 2014
  #3
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Marando's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
Because of the positive LX 480 thread I gave the UAD 224 a second try with hope it will make me lucky this time.

But I have to ask:
Can someone please explain me the euphoria about this plug in?

I gave it a try and it sounds small, without depth-dimension, nothing to go crazy about. Even one of my Alesis Midiverb II eats it in seconds on lead guitar. You just dial in any program of the MV and the guitar is surrounded by a space. If you switch over to the UAD LX 224 there is no space, just a point of reverb. The 224 is more flat, no matter what I dial in. I even read the manual because I thought I am doing something wrong. If you give the 224 more input level it starts to sound but the space is nothing I would go WOW about. Its washy..... sounds like a bath room.

I have my doubts that the hardware sounded like the plug in?
And if yes, why people go crazy about it?

Or am I doing something wrong with it?
Or is it just another UAD marketing "blah we did it" plug in?
If I didn't know better I would ask if you tried it in mono. Because I have not the same experience as you, I believe the UAD Lexicon can be smooth, wide, lush.. You name it. In EDM I prefer it over the LX480 plugin any day.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #4
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AlexK's Avatar
 

I've found the UAD verbs to be the best plugin reverbs I've used, the 224 no exception (which is amazingly close to the hardware IMO).
Old 3rd August 2014
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexK View Post
I've found the UAD verbs to be the best plugin reverbs I've used, the 224 no exception (which is amazingly close to the hardware IMO).
I disagree regarding 224 being close to hardware.

And i will repeat myself again and again and again. UAD Lex 224 is absolutely total letdown. I mean a flop. I have tried every reverb plugin out there including all DSP solution existing to this date (likely) and i am really sensitive to reverbs especially "direct ports".

UAD version is success from marketing standpoint obviously since they made that fancy videos and they claim to have exact port but i can tell you all this - let's just say that i am total deluded moron but before you reject me please do this (i am telling this to anyone not only to the person i quoted):

Borrow or rent real 224 and then compare it to UAD. And then go here and tell us is it amazingly close? Unless you where tortured by canon fire in your childhood you will hear VERY obvious difference in sound. I can say load i mean ton of my subjective opinions but let's just say it doesn't "bloom" like hardware at all. Dispersion is whacky and whole character for which real hardware is well known for (that weird totally unreal but musical and spacious depth and modulation) is pretty much missing/different in plugin. This debate is old and ihave found quite a lot of users which have/had real hardware reporting same experience as mine - here on gearslutz. Old threads but i guess they can be found somehow

Please don't believe what i say, test it by yourself. You can not even match it because (which is another scary thing when i read people say it is amazingly close to real hardware) UAD control on 224 plugin are likely related to some weird machine from another dimension. If you don't belive me feel free to match plugin faders to real hardware fader. No not even close but let's say that one need to adjust plugin to match hardware by ear - NOT POSSIBLE

Simply i don't get it when people say that it is amazingly or scary close to hardware. I guess these people never actually tested real hardware. Never.

I mean i do get it. It is nice to think that you are having real lexicon sound within your plugin and one is free to believe in such thing but reality my friends is pretty different.

Like i said take my words with grain of salt - rent real hardware, compare it and then go here and tell us your story.

Btw isn't it weird that UAD created 1:1 port but for some reason they don't offer sound comparison between hardware and software. I mean that alone would me amazing marketing injection and sale credit - only if it was true

Like i said try it for yourself.

Like someone here said - i am choosing LX480 any day for any kind of music
Old 3rd August 2014
  #6
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slammy80's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marando View Post
If I didn't know better I would ask if you tried it in mono. Because I have not the same experience as you, I believe the UAD Lexicon can be smooth, wide, lush.. You name it. In EDM I prefer it over the LX480 plugin any day.
Hah... I thought the same thing (it must be in "mono"). Or Mr. HOLMES is not using the dry/wet "solo" button correctly via send/insert.

In my experience, the 224 is anything but those things mentioned in the OP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
... it sounds small, without depth-dimension, ... flat, no matter what I dial in. ... Its washy..... sounds like a bath room.
Also... this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
I have my doubts that the hardware sounded like the plug in?
You do realize that the UAD plugin uses the exact same algorithms etc. from the original? It's the same reverb as the hardware...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpod View Post
And i will repeat myself again and again and again.... UAD Lex 224 is absolutely total letdown. I mean a flop. .... UAD version is success from marketing standpoint obviously since they made that fancy videos.... You can not even match it because UAD control on 224 plugin are likely related to some weird machine from another dimension.... Simply i don't get it when people say that it is amazingly or scary close to hardware. I guess these people never actually tested real hardware. Never. ...

Like i said take my words with grain of salt.


You got it, dude. I'm now taking everything you say with a grain of salt.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #7
Gear Addict
i have to agree to the OP. i cant understand the hype. my pcm70 sounds way bigger than this plug in. ah dammit - i just got a real emt140 - no need for plug ins anyway
Old 3rd August 2014
  #8
Gear Addict
it actually kept me from buying a real 224 because i thought if i dont like the plug why would i buy the original. and it was a steal - i´m actually still angry when i think of it. it was mint, mint, refurbished original 224 for 1300 euros. arrrrrgh!!!!
Old 3rd August 2014
  #9
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skythemusic's Avatar
First of all the Midiverb II is freaking awesome.

Alas, the only really good ITB reverb I have heard is the Nebula VNXT spring. I personally find the UAD reverbs to suck, though I have only used the 140 and 250 and not the 224. I also don't like the Lexicon reverb plug ins. I much prefer the lowly LXP and MPX's of the world, not to mention the PCM's. I have no idea why this is so, I certainly would prefer cheap and convenient plugins. Maybe its the older converters, but even more likely it is the way computers process sound. It is what it is...though some disagree.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #10
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nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

I havent come across a plugin that gets close to the hardware in general. Especially with reverbs.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #11
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Native Instruments delivered a more compelling algorithm with their version of the 224. (RC 24).
Old 3rd August 2014
  #12
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glenn Taylor's Avatar
 

I had a 224xl and using plate with 120 pre delay was one of many great settings I found on it for vocals. I regret selling it,but it was starting to act up and they are expensive to get fixed if you can find someone to fix it.Do not miss the repair bills plug ins offer not having to pay.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #13
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Leevi's Avatar
 

I dont think it sounds bad at all. My "problem" with it was that it sounded too warm to my needs. Also LX480 sounded more impressive and alive. I might buy it when it comes to the sale next time though.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #14
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
I have my doubts that the hardware sounded like the plug in?
Me too.

IIRC, years ago I went to the UAD site where they had files recorded with a real 224 and the UAD version... Personally, I thought the UAD had little in common with the real thing... The reverb tail sounded grainy and hollow... Nothing special at all.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #15
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slammy80 View Post
You do realize that the UAD plugin uses the exact same algorithms etc. from the original? It's the same reverb as the hardware...
No it isn't. Even Lexicon couldn't recreate the 224 because they don't have the technology/algorithms to do it anymore.

The people who designed the old machines took their knowledge with them. The same goes for Eventide.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #16
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dark blue man's Avatar
UAD lex 224 is an outstanding ITB reverb. I use it all the time, but I'm well passed taking notice of the opinions of furum posters. How it sounds to me is the only criteria worth diddely as far as I'm concerned and, to me, the LEX 224 is knock out

I've never heard the hardware nor do I care
Old 3rd August 2014
  #17
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Cool

Thanks for all the opinions.
Its just my taste / opinion.

I think the UAD 224 sounds not much better as any IR of it I own.
I would love to hear a real comparsion, but I can imagine why UAD is avoiding this.

If the HW sounds like this.
I would not buy the HW either.

I did a collection of cheapo verbs in the last few years.
Boss/Midiverbs/Yamaha etc.
For my ears they all eat the UAD 224 in having personality.
But it can be perception as well.

As with many other UAD plugs I think its overpriced for what it does.

Seen from a standpoint of investment.
I would rather buy two mind conditon MV II or III instead of the LX 224.

In the end we talk taste I think the UAD 224 is not my cup of tea.
The UAD EMT 140 Plate is awsome.
I use it very often on the SD.

Have to say, with the passing years, I get very sceptical about new releases in the plug in world.
If the first hype is gone realty sets in.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #18
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skythemusic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
Thanks for all the opinions.
Its just my taste / opinion.

I think the UAD 224 sounds not much better as any IR of it I own.
I would love to hear a real comparsion, but I can imagine why UAD is avoiding this.

If the HW sounds like this.
I would not buy the HW either.

I did a collection of cheapo verbs in the last few years.
Boss/Midiverbs/Yamaha etc.
For my ears they all eat the UAD 224 in having personality.
But it can be perception as well.

As with many other UAD plugs I think its overpriced for what it does.

Senn from a standpoint of investment.
I would rather buy two mind conditon MV II or III instead of the LX 224.

In the end we talk taste I think the UAD 224 is not my cup of tea.
The UAD EMT 140 Plate is awsome.
I use it very often on the SD.

Have to say, with the passing years, I get very sceptical about new releases in the plug in world.
If the first hype is gone realty sets in.

You are onto it though IMNSHO. For the last 5 years or so I have been buying just about every old and cheap digital reverb I can think of. Most of them are from $50-300, about the same cost as the average plugin. They all have their own unique personality and application, they allow me to hands on turn knobs and buttons, they don't require any updates, I have never had to repair one (unlike nearly every "high end" piece I have), and they likely will go up in value at least intrinsically. Why people buy plugins that will be outdated almost immediately when they could buy interesting hardware for the same price is beyond me. Most of those 80's and 90's units keep plugging along, a few of them I have had for 25 years and they all still work every time I turn them on with no hassle of os updates, dongle bs, etc.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #19
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Here you go, straight from the horse's mouth.

Lexicon 224 Plug-In Trailer for UAD-2 - YouTube

To my ears, the UAD captures some of the *characteristics* of the hardware, but not the *sound*. The hardware sounds warm, big and round. The plug-in sounds grainy, harsh and hollow.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #20
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Here you go, straight from the horse's mouth.

Lexicon 224 Plug-In Trailer for UAD-2 - YouTube

To my ears, the UAD captures some of the *characteristics* of the hardware, but not the *sound*. The hardware sounds warm, big and round. The plug-in sounds grainy, harsh and hollow.
A lot of blah and a lot blub and a few sconds AB ing something without showing the tools…. a lot of famous AE say how great it is but you do not see them using it in examples… LOL… to me this is BS marketing which has nothing to do with sending any usefull information to the intrested customer…
Old 3rd August 2014
  #21
Tui
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Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
to me this is BS marketing
That is my impression also.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #22
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Anyway I just was intrested in diffrent opinions…
As always you cant discuss about taste…
Old 3rd August 2014
  #23
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dark blue man's Avatar
Without doubt some of the UAD plug-ins are over-priced and not always good value for money. Fortunately, the Lex 224 is not one of them.

UAD Lex 224 is a diamond.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #24
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Quote:
In my experience, the 224 is anything but those things mentioned in the OP:
Yeah but you also said Slate's Mu was the best Fairchild emulation on the market, and that It "KILLS" UAD in every way possible, so forgive me for not buying into your post.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #25
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dark blue man's Avatar
Old 3rd August 2014
  #26
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dark blue man View Post
Old 3rd August 2014
  #27
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dark blue man's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
How very mature of you. An intelligent response would have been better but not to worry. The Dunning Kruger effect will have to do when it's all you have
Old 3rd August 2014
  #28
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dark blue man View Post
How very mature of you. An intelligent response would have been better but not to worry. The Dunning Kruger effect will have to do when it's all you have
Simple we can see the HW standing next to him but he is not showing some ABs he is not telling any information about the process to recreate the HW… nothig I can gain anything from. Instead of something intelligent he is fireing up a few samples. AH. Thats just stupid, at least it would be nice to hear it in action in a mix.

I say it agian - the marketing vidoes get some sort of strange.
They have nothing to do with giving away some serious information….
But I said it before the Lex 224 is not for me, if you are happy with it everything is fine…
Old 3rd August 2014
  #29
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dark blue man's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
Simple we can see the HW standing next to him but he is not showing some ABs he is not telling any information about the process to recreate the HW… nothig I can gain anything from. Instead of something intelligent he is fireing up a few samples. AH. Thats just stupid, at least it would be nice to hear it in action in a mix.

I say it agian - the marketing vidoes get some sort of strange.
They have nothing to do with giving away some serious information….
But I said it before the Lex 224 is not for me, if you are happy with it everything is fine…
No worries. So don't buy it. Simple!
Old 3rd August 2014
  #30
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ionian's Avatar
You have to take everything with a grain of salt.

Someone posted here a few months ago that they had bought a Lex 224 and everything sounded amazing going through it.

One of the engineers who is in that UAD Lexi video, singing its praises, responded to that thread saying something like that it was the transformers in that unit just add magic to anything that goes through it and how no plug in yet has been able to capture that magic.

I felt like responding to him, "Oh, not even that UAD Lexi you were praising in the video a few years ago?" But I really don't like to call out and embarrass people - especially when they make it easy.

But I did take a mental note about marketing hype and BS.
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