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Loudness of tracks of EDM producers like Hardwell,Showtek,David Guetta etc. Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 31st July 2014
  #31
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JanZoo's Avatar
And voila, this proves that nobody actually listen to the references that OPs are referring to, newsflash...

Sorry mate for bashing you like this,but this first song you posted is no way near -3RMS, it's around -9ish on it's loudest passages, I've heard way louder stuff... I don't know which scale are you using to measure the RMS, but the scale you are using certainly doesn't give you real numbers...

And all of the guys are like "Go home and learn boy", "Go to the pro ME", "it's in the mix" without hearing the examples and examine that they are no way near the hot numbers you wrote it...

Pro ME doesn't guarantee nothing, just practice, mixing is a craft and an art and it takes time to make decent results, there are no shortcuts
Old 31st July 2014
  #32
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greggybud's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanZoo View Post

Sorry mate for bashing you like this,but this first song you posted is no way near -3RMS, it's around -9ish on it's loudest passages, I've heard way louder stuff... I don't know which scale are you using to measure the RMS, but the scale you are using certainly doesn't give you real numbers...
34 prior posts and you are the first to mention it.

To the OP: I suggest learning or understanding your measuring tools first. Second, what is your source? Digital download? CD? Vinyl? Or maybe a copy from a youtube video? Thirdly, how did you load this?

I don't have the source audio, but if I did I would load it into Wavelab and give the your real dbRMS.

No disrespect, but -3dbRMS is just silly.
Old 31st July 2014
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greggybud View Post
34 prior posts and you are the first to mention it.

To the OP: I suggest learning or understanding your measuring tools first. Second, what is your source? Digital download? CD? Vinyl? Or maybe a copy from a youtube video? Thirdly, how did you load this?

I don't have the source audio, but if I did I would load it into Wavelab and give the your real dbRMS.

No disrespect, but -3dbRMS is just silly.
Beatport download!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 31st July 2014
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanZoo View Post
And voila, this proves that nobody actually listen to the references that OPs are referring to, newsflash...

Sorry mate for bashing you like this,but this first song you posted is no way near -3RMS, it's around -9ish on it's loudest passages, I've heard way louder stuff... I don't know which scale are you using to measure the RMS, but the scale you are using certainly doesn't give you real numbers...

And all of the guys are like "Go home and learn boy", "Go to the pro ME", "it's in the mix" without hearing the examples and examine that they are no way near the hot numbers you wrote it...

Pro ME doesn't guarantee nothing, just practice, mixing is a craft and an art and it takes time to make decent results, there are no shortcuts
I think you are using K systems to monitor
Old 31st July 2014
  #35
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sardi's Avatar
 

Something is wrong with your metering.

I just imported that track (shudder) into PT and used 3 different meter plugins. One reported -8.2 RMS & the other -7.6 RMS and the other somewhere around the mid -7 RMS mark.

I don't think I have EVER come across a song mastered to -3 RMS.
Old 31st July 2014
  #36
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"(shudder)"
Old 31st July 2014
  #37
Yeah....I've NEVER seen a track go past -7. I don't reference a ton, but have a handful I always use and maybe -7.3 at the very loudest part of the track. Most tracks float around -8. Something isn't callibrated right if you're getting those readings.
Old 31st July 2014
  #38
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Analogue Mastering's Avatar
First of all HOW do you measure -3dB RMS? As most of these songs are not, they are about -6dB RMS max
2nd can we hear your song? Then we know what we are talking about.
The poster above here gave good advise, suggest you start there.
What I would like to add is, start measuring RMS on segments like intro, break, drop and see where the energy goes in those segments.

Stop asking for some kind of "1 magic potion to fix all EDM challenges", spend less time on forums and more behind your DAW
You're like this Dynam1ke guy. It's not the plugins, it's solely mixing and mastering skillset and no, no one will write you some kind of 20 page custom manual of best practises. You'll have to work with the advise you got above.
Now go, work hard, share your mix, then we can discuss your mix, then share your DiY master and we can discuss that too.
If you want to learn you need to expose your work and yes, you might be in for some harsch and honest opinions from people slagging it off, maybe some ridiculing as icing on the cake, but that's all part of the game
If you're not prepared to go through that, then stop opening these topics.
Old 31st July 2014
  #39
Gear Maniac
I think that here is a little misunderstanding. Post author talks about max rms and allot of you measures average rms. Sure, even audition shows Max rms point is -3db but average is about -9, -8db rms. Ozone shows a little bit more sometimes but difference on peak rms points are not big difference as >0.3db.

Back to topic, how to master like that?

Well all starts in mixing. Mix good and compress carefully. Use ultra fast attack in first place and limit peaks on individual tracks. Your mix after that should sound loud and dynamic. After that in mastering use multiband compresson and You, most likely, can push it till -6LUFS (That is loud) whit 4db dynamic range. Question is that You will like it or not. Loud is loud. That costs dynamic range and instruments loose their form. All that chain includes EQ and stuff too of course. Im not a pro, but You can try.
Old 31st July 2014
  #40
First you need the right sounds: E.g. no way you can use multiple instrument rumbling around in the same frequency range
Second you need a clean mix: Separate all sounds properly. E.g. the high synth don't need nothing below 500 - 1000 HZ
If you have those 2 right, you're almost there.

Third you need a very good mastering: If you fail the 2 above, you won't be able to get anywhere LOUD.

IMHO: -6 dBrms is way enough and with 1 & 2 nailed, the mastering engineer will easily reach that without limiting anc clipping very hard.
Old 31st July 2014
  #41
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sardi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kasinjsh View Post
I think that here is a little misunderstanding. Post author talks about max rms and allot of you measures average rms. Sure, even audition shows Max rms point is -3db but average is about -9, -8db rms. Ozone shows a little bit more sometimes but difference on peak rms points are not big difference as >0.3db.
My measurements were of an 8 bar phrase. No quiet parts. It was the main part of the track.

I'm still baffled as to how he got -3 RMS
Old 31st July 2014
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sardi View Post
My measurements were of an 8 bar phrase. No quiet parts. It was the main part of the track.

I'm still baffled as to how he got -3 RMS
Measure the drop.....
Old 31st July 2014
  #43
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sardi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsTHEONE View Post
Measure the drop.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by sardi View Post
It was the main part of the track.
I'm well aware of where the 'drop' is and I'm also quite confident in saying your measurements are wrong.

Whilst I don't personally use Ozone, you're picture implies that the peak level is +2.6dB. Considering that the digital ceiling is 0dB, I'm not quite sure what to say.
Old 31st July 2014
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
First of all HOW do you measure -3dB RMS? As most of these songs are not, they are about -6dB RMS max
2nd can we hear your song? Then we know what we are talking about.
The poster above here gave good advise, suggest you start there.
What I would like to add is, start measuring RMS on segments like intro, break, drop and see where the energy goes in those segments.

Stop asking for some kind of "1 magic potion to fix all EDM challenges", spend less time on forums and more behind your DAW
You're like this Dynam1ke guy. It's not the plugins, it's solely mixing and mastering skillset and no, no one will write you some kind of 20 page custom manual of best practises. You'll have to work with the advise you got above.
Now go, work hard, share your mix, then we can discuss your mix, then share your DiY master and we can discuss that too.
If you want to learn you need to expose your work and yes, you might be in for some harsch and honest opinions from people slagging it off, maybe some ridiculing as icing on the cake, but that's all part of the game
If you're not prepared to go through that, then stop opening these topics.
WAV or Soundcloud?
Old 31st July 2014
  #45
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sardi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsTHEONE View Post
refer to the photo i have posted im taking about that RMS...
EDIT:- BELOW IT!!!
Sigh... You're not getting it are you?

That track is NOT hitting -3dB RMS. I can assure you of that. You're metering is incorrect or calibrated incorrectly.

I was pointing out the Peak level as being incorrect and over 0dB to try and show you why we're saying your metering is wrong. How can it be showing 2.6dB over?
Old 31st July 2014
  #46
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sardi's Avatar
 

And BTW, if you wanna know why this track is loud (and I will concede that it is a loud master, just not as loud as what you think it is) it's because the kick drum is very short with no decay and heavily notched in the low end. It sounds like a door knock. The rest of the track is heavily sidechained to the kick which allows you to push the levels even further.

To be honest, the track sounds horrendous, both musically and sonically. Whilst the former is personal taste, the latter is not. It has no body at all. It's all mids.
Old 31st July 2014
  #47
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Analogue Mastering's Avatar
That's mp3 conversion, zero as wav is often over when mp3 and converted wrong, also depends on metering setting, pure peaks, or digital peaks.
Old 31st July 2014
  #48
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Uploading my track wait!!!!!
Old 31st July 2014
  #49
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sardi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
That's mp3 conversion, zero as wav is often over when mp3 and converted wrong, also depends on metering setting, pure peaks, or digital peaks.
2.6dB over due to intersample peaks sounds a bit much to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsTHEONE View Post
https://www.izotope.com/en/products/...stering/ozone/
I don't know much about these metering but its over 0db EVEN IN OFFICIAL SCREENSHOT!!
PLZ EXPLAIN THIS
I just downloaded a demo of Ozone, placed it on that track, and the highest I got it to show was -4.5 (which still doesn't sound right when I compare it to every other reading I got with 3 other meters.

On top of that, my meters don't clip and my peak reading shows 0dB in Ozone. So, again, you've got an incorrect setting somewhere.

You've probably raised the fader or something silly like that. No offence (and I sincerely mean this), but you don't sound like the most experienced person when it comes to this stuff.
Old 31st July 2014
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sardi View Post
2.6dB over due to intersample peaks sounds a bit much to me.



I just downloaded a demo of Ozone, placed it on that track, and the highest I got it to show was -4.5 (which still doesn't sound right when I compare it to every other reading I got with 3 other meters.

On top of that, my meters don't clip and my peak reading shows 0dB in Ozone. So, again, you've got an incorrect setting somewhere.

You've probably raised the fader or something silly like that. No offence (and I sincerely mean this), but you don't sound like the most experienced person when it comes to this stuff.
Dude I'm not that stupid
Alright if you are experienced then explain all of it(NO OFFENSE)
Old 31st July 2014
  #51
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sardi's Avatar
 

Actually, I just looked at your pic again. Why are your faders in Ozone sitting at -10? Mine default to under -15 and if I look at the bottom of the faders it shows +0.0. If I move it to where your ones are set in that pic, they show close to +4!!
Old 31st July 2014
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sardi View Post
Actually, I just looked at your pic again. Why are your faders in Ozone sitting at -10? Mine default to under -15 and if I look at the bottom of the faders it shows +0.0. If I move it to where your ones are set in that pic, they show close to +4!!
Look Below the faders you have 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
THAT's THE DEFAULT VALUE!!!
Old 31st July 2014
  #53
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sardi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsTHEONE View Post
Dude I'm not that stupid
Care to post the whole pic of Ozone and not a cropped version?

Quote:
Alright if you are experienced then explain all of it(NO OFFENSE)
I did. Several times. So did others, but you refuse to want to listen to anyone.

At this point, I don't know what else to say.
Old 31st July 2014
  #54
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sardi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsTHEONE View Post
Look Below the faders you have 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
THAT's THE DEFAULT VALUE!!!
Not on mine it's not.
Old 31st July 2014
  #55
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audiofrq's Avatar
 

I don't know how everyone has missed this but most of the mastering for EDM is done by Luca Pretolesi at Studio DMI in Las Vegas. He can get things stupendously loud.

He's been on Pensado's place and holds mix down/mastering classes at Dubspot LA.

I did a brief studio tour of his place a few months ago and this is a gear list of what I remember:

Maselec MTC-2 Transfer console, Maselec MEA-2 EQ, Bax EQ, UBK Fatso (used mainly for the drum bus in stem mastering) and Pendulum Audio PL-2 Tube Limiter.

He briefly ran one of my tracks which I had previously smashed with a limiter, though the MEA-2 and PL-2 combo and managed to squeeze another 3-4db out of it without it pumping too much.
Old 31st July 2014
  #56
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsTHEONE View Post
This is cool......+1 When I imported Hardwell's upcoming track in FL studio..My master gets Red , indicating clipping but i don't hear any .
A lot of these tracks do sound clipped - but clipping doesn't always sound bad. Arrangements are key in this world with very careful carving of the source sounds. Some very clever work!!
Old 31st July 2014
  #57
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Fanu's Avatar
Good music doesn't need to be that loud. Just saying.
Old 31st July 2014
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanu View Post
Good music doesn't need to be that loud. Just saying.
I agree but if it is GOOD+LOUD=AWESOME
Old 31st July 2014
  #59
M2E
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That Hardwell track is loud but not that loud.
It falls between 9.0rms and 8.5rms.
No where near Katy Perry's songs.

Dance music is perceived a lot louder than it really is because of the loud synths.

Try listening to Sexy Chick. That one smokes this one in loudness with a lot more punch.
In fact, the most punch I've heard from any record since.

JusSayin,

Marc
Old 31st July 2014
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsTHEONE View Post
I agree but if it is GOOD+LOUD=AWESOME
LOL

That's the believe why loudness started first, and now people more and more growing out of it realizing too loud is too boring, you still believe that hype?

Give Public Enemy "Don't believe the hype" a listen
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