The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Waves Soundgrid Studio System Audio Interfaces
Old 25th July 2014
  #31
Gear Nut
 
meric's Avatar
 

Hi,

I'm running on PT HDN card so I don't get any latency problem on my system( I have a DLS box)... I decided to use the eMotion mixer as like an external mixer! so it's very useful for mixing or mastering...

DigiGrid has two different options with DLS and DLI boxes,

- SGP Mode
- I/O Mode

Believe me guys for a year ( beta testing) I didn't get any latency issue with DLS box...On SGP Mode( very powerful mode for PT HDNative card users ) I don't need use to Avid's AAE... for example, I'm mixing a session and need to bounce this session, I need to listen the song in iTunes then I don't quite PT and I listen the song without quitting PT... So Waves SoundGrid driver is a real freedom... and it works perfectly in Logic X

I/O Mode is for PT HD/HDX/HDNative users... I tried I/O Mode and SGP mode. So I can just say two Modes are very powerful... I'm having love with my DLS box and I'll share more experiences asap...

Thanks

Waves Soundgrid Studio System-1.png

Waves Soundgrid Studio System-2.png

Waves Soundgrid Studio System-3.png
Old 25th July 2014
  #32
Gear Nut
 
meric's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower View Post

Free Soundrid Studio will run what 3rd Party?

Soundgrid Studio with Soundgrid server will run what 3rd party?
3rd party will run on SR plug-in and on eMotion Mixer...
there'll be too many surprises but I don't know yet that which company will develop their plug-ins... I hope Massey and Air will be there


Cheers

Ümit
Old 25th July 2014
  #33
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by meric View Post
Hi,

I'm running on PT HDN card so I don't get any latency problem on my system( I have a DLS box)... I decided to use the eMotion mixer as like an external mixer! so it's very useful for mixing or mastering...

DigiGrid has two different options with DLS and DLI boxes,

- SGP Mode
- I/O Mode

Believe me guys for a year ( beta testing) I didn't get any latency issue with DLS box...On SGP Mode( very powerful mode for PT HDNative card users ) I don't need use Avid's AAE... for example, I'm mixing a session and need to bounce this session, I need to listen the song in iTunes then I don't quite PT and I listen the song without quitting PT... So Waves SoundGrid driver is a real freedom... and it works perfectly in Logic X

I/O Mode is for PT HD/HDX/HDNative users... I tried I/O Mode and SGP mode. So I can just say two Modes are very powerful... I'm having love with my DLS box and I hope to share more experiences with you guys asap...

Thanks
Question about overdubs. Does the eMotion mixer merge the live input with the DAW output? If I monitor a virtual guitar amp while recording, will the playback be routed to that same virtual amp?
Old 25th July 2014
  #34
Gear Nut
 
meric's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frantz View Post
Question about overdubs. Does the eMotion mixer merge the live input with the DAW output? If I monitor a virtual guitar amp while recording, will the playback be routed to that same virtual amp?
Yes,It'll... + you can add more plug-in as you want on eMotion Mixer then you can send the same signal into PT or Logic X at the same time...
Old 25th July 2014
  #35
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by meric View Post
Yes,It'll... + you can add more plug-in as you want on eMotion Mixer then you can send the same signal into PT or Logic X at the same time...
Thank you.
Old 25th July 2014
  #36
Gear Nut
 
meric's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frantz View Post
Thank you.
My pleasure...

Thanks

Ümit
Old 26th July 2014
  #37
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
VEP 5 routing is extremely simple simple compared to Digigrid - plus you loose physical I/O for plugins.
Digigrid runs Waves Plugs VEP runs anything VST or AU. Plus you can run older 32 bit plugs on VEP5
While I love VEP and think the tech they were able to achieve is first rate....I think it is far from ideal still. The routing method using the "event input" plugin is far from simplistic.. and you are still talking about running plugins on a separate computer and must use screen sharing or secondary monitors and mice to control the slaves (which is what I do). and most DAWS require multiple tracks of io to cover a single stereo pair of IO.

From what I've gathered, the digigrid/studio rack plugin can be as simple as loading the plugin in studio rack and making sure "SG mode is highlighted or something like that to push the processing to the SG server... the emotion mixer is only there for secondary purposes if you need even more routing flexibility and trickery... but you don't actually have to access it. In my dream I am pulling up an AUX track in PT, loading 2c audio's B2 reverb in studiorack and it automatically is offloading the processing to the SG server without any other routing acrobatics. If someone without a SG server opens this session the processing simply defaults to native. They have demonstrated this with waves plugins. But I'm going to need some third party love beyond plugin alliance to bite. Anyway, no extra screens or windows/mac computers needed here.

I wonder if vienna can figure out a way to interface with an SG server?? now that would be cool...

and I'm talking about running sound grid under its core driver here not AAE / HDX so we're not taking up physical IO.
Old 26th July 2014
  #38
Lives for gear
 
T_R_S's Avatar
the biggest drawback for me DG vs VEP is DG only runs Waves plugins
Old 26th July 2014
  #39
Lives for gear
The other thing about that is that it appears that plugin companies need to code for the DG format. Mmmm Maybe WAVES will also have something wrapping capability that will allow us to run AU's and or VSTs natively only and not on their DSPs.
I'm not sure about any of this, but I'd be surprised if you could run VST's or AU's on it, in anything other than the Native version of the studio rack plug. I guess we'll learn more in time about the capabilities and limitations of this concept.
Old 26th July 2014
  #40
Lives for gear
 
T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by meric View Post
DigiGrid will run also with third party plug-ins...

cheers

Ümit
There is nothing on the Waves site about being able to run VST & Au plug-ins looks like it's Waves only.
Old 26th July 2014
  #41
Lives for gear
My understanding is:
Soundgrid or Studiorack WILL run 3rd party plug ins -- WHEN -- they are ported to Soundgrid format. So far there is no list of what (if any) are currently available.
Old 26th July 2014
  #42
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
There is nothing on the Waves site about being able to run VST & Au plug-ins looks like it's Waves only.
http://www.waves.com/plugins/studior...ainer-overview


[IMG]Click for large view - Uploaded with Skitch[/IMG]
Old 26th July 2014
  #43
Lives for gear
Key word - Compatible !!!!!!!
Compatible means 3rd party plugin IN Soundgrid format...

Of which there are exactly none today

Happy to be proved wrong on this! If there is stuff out there - "Show me the Money" ! :-)
Old 26th July 2014
  #44
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower View Post
Key word - Compatible !!!!!!!
Compatible means 3rd party plugin IN Soundgrid format...

Of which there are exactly none today
Precisely. It should read.

"Compatible with WAVES and SoundGrid format third party plugins."
Old 27th July 2014
  #45
Lives for gear
 
T_R_S's Avatar
I am still not seeing VST AU plug-ins I have to buy SoundGrid Compatible Plugs Waves Native Plug-ins are not supported you have buy SOUNDGRID plug-ins.
And while I'm gripping how IMO Sound grid sucks Waves does not support Dynamics Plug in processing in PT 11
Old 27th July 2014
  #46
Gear Nut
 
meric's Avatar
 

Bd

I really don't understand the problem? Waves didn't support AAX DSP version that's why you're gripping? Or Because they had to have change their plug-in format( Avid allready did(AAX) anyone resist for it) and Waves decided to creat a new SG system? I'm missing something here.... I can understand that maybe you can't get economiclly the new SG System... Or WUP! But why we can't say that it is the their desicion/buisness ... Really can't understand:(

for example, Apple's new Mac Pro has any Pcie slots. So Am I gripping? Yes but I accepted their decision and I also respect their desicion! even I agree or disagree with the desicion.... I should't buy a new Mac Pro because 1st I can't...2nd I don't need to get this insane.... So I am not on Apple's forums and not searching any strike about their new Mac Pro desicion...

Cheers

Ümit

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
I'm gripping how IMO Sound grid sucks Waves does not support Dynamics Plug in processing in PT 11
Old 27th July 2014
  #47
Lives for gear
 
tobymusic's Avatar
 

Thanks for your effort to give us real-life info on the DigiGrid stuff, meric. Really appreciated, especially since up to this point the official info from Waves was not specific enough and triggered more questions than providing answers.

Personally I agree with T_R_S though, for once because I think Waves stabbed their most loyal (and investing) user base in the back by not supporting AAX DSP. Not even trying to by releasing one or two "most wanted" plug-ins.

Then, by not supporting dynamic plug-in processing, they don't seem to take Pro Tools 11 as a host seriously enough - a bad move I think.

Thirdly, so far I get the feeling this DigiGrid stuff wants to be a solution to a non-existent problem: namely to provide more processing power for CPU weak DAW systems. There are way cheaper fixes for this than to invest into a rather complex DigiGrid system.

The HD/HDX idea is not primarily about more processing power, but first of all about low latency in high CPU load situations and recording situations - and stability (at least it was on HD systems, not sure about HDX to be honest). With such a system, you've got it all in one computer and in one fully automatable session - and recallable by just your DAW session file.

The introduction of another mixer alongside DigiGrid is a showstopper for a studio workflow in my opinion - why would you want to worry about recalling a very limited, external software mixer?

On the plus side - I can see the potential of the DigiGrid system for multi-room studios that want to invest in a networkable audio infrastructure. As long as you don't already own anything Pro Tools HD/HDX, that would be a waste of money since all you need is the Pro Tools software and Waves hardware. Now I'm curious about the quality of the conversion on the Waves hardware and how long these products will stay on the market - Waves has earned itself a bad reputation with the APA dilemma - which was quite costly for some users, don't forget that.

One last comment about the introduction of the DigiGrid system: it appeared to me that Waves repeatedly had to explain why potential users would want or need this thing (something the customer didn't know he needed). While at the same time they were trying to explain to HDX users why they don't need AAX DSP any more (something the customer wanted but would not get). I hope this goes well for Waves, but I'm not too optimistic.
Old 27th July 2014
  #48
Gear Head
 

I've just started reading about Soundgrid, could someone clarify some things for me?

I have a UA Apollo; if I want to get into Soundgrid do I have to replace it with a Digigrid OSX or something? Can I just buy a Soundgrid server and also use the Apollo?

I'm a bit confused as to the 'Live Sound' and 'Studio System' distinction. They involve the same components? Can I invest in something relatively minimal now – just for additional DSP – and incorporate a mixing console down the track?

For anyone familiar with UA products, is the Soundgrid system the same in that the eMotion mixer is analogous to the UA Console, and Studiorack is analogous to Session Recall? The difference being that Soundgrid runs on ethernet and is primarily about networking, is able to hook up multiple computers with different DAWs, and mixing consoles, and that the Waves plugins are native as well. Am I right?
Old 27th July 2014
  #49
Lives for gear
 
nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

so this is what itb guys are doing while hardware guys make music, interesting
Old 27th July 2014
  #50
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobymusic View Post
The HD/HDX idea is not primarily about more processing power, but first of all about low latency in high CPU load situations and recording situations
+1000

And to this point - In their effort to sell $3750 boxes to HDX people with $10K+ systems - or HDN people with $4K+ systems - Waves offers NO technical detail (numbers - measurements - conditions) as to how their box effects Latency in either HDX or Native environment - only hyperbole. Marketing has been and continues to be very poor for this potentially very good product.

In contrast - this product could be important to the non-HDX people who want superb low latency performance. Being one of these myself - you can see how your doing with your target audience :-)
Old 27th July 2014
  #51
Gear Nut
 
meric's Avatar
 

Sorry but it makes any sense your post sorry... Make your music so why you lost your time here? I am also having too many audio gears but please don't start it


Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelironsteel View Post
so this is what itb guys are doing while hardware guys make music, interesting
Old 28th July 2014
  #52
Lives for gear
 
Herb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelironsteel View Post
so this is what itb guys are doing while hardware guys make music, interesting
You've used a computer to post a digital message on an Internet forum.

Analogue traitor!!
Old 28th July 2014
  #53
WJW
Here for the gear
 

SoundGrid Studio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWBavygEzvQ
Old 28th July 2014
  #54
Gear Nut
 
meric's Avatar
 

Thanks WJW!
Awesome!

Quote:
Old 28th July 2014
  #55
Gear Head
 

Hey guys.
My name is Eyal Amir, and I work for Waves.
Some of my work has been to experiment with the different DiGiGrid modules (mainly IOS), and make videos on ways to use them.

First of all, it's important to mention that the DSP server (as powerful as it is), is only a part of a way bigger system. Some of the units (such as DLI, and the upcoming IOC and IOX) do not even include a server.
For example, as an interface, you can use it to network between other computers and units.
So you can patch audio channels between different computers, that can all use the same unit as their interface.
I have tried it in this video, where I patched individual VST tracks from a Cubase and Logic machines, into an Ableton machine for a live mix, and also recorded all the dry+wet tracks into a ProTools machine:


Regarding the eMotion mixer: It is very useful for monitoring (with processing, and very low latency) outside of your DAW, while still having the option to record dry. However, you don't have to mix using it. When you mix you can just use StudioRack and offload the process to the server. You can also use StudioRack to monitor your processed sound with very low latency, while still applying automation and recording a dry signal.

Feel free to ask more questions regarding the whole system. I will stop by a little later and go through each post to see if I can contribute something to the discussion.

P.S. While I do work for Waves, by no means is my post an official word from the company... just my own experience with the product.
Old 28th July 2014
  #56
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chainrule View Post
Cubase has had this for 10 years. VST link it's called

But why would anyone need this these days with the speed of modern PCs?? A pc sold at walmart can handle 100s if not 1000s of plugins right now on a single OS. How many plugins does the average working studio use on a project? Even VI, is not going to require this much processing for typical music projects.
In my mind, the biggest issue in terms of the DSP power is realtime processing. While for a mix you can certainly use a 1024 samples buffer size and stack up plugins natively, with this system you can basically use the DSP as a live digital mixer for monitoring in the studio, or even in a live situation. If you're using studio rack, you can even chain tons of plugins and automations and actually 'perform' into a pre processed mix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benj1
I'm a bit confused as to the 'Live Sound' and 'Studio System' distinction. They involve the same components? Can I invest in something relatively minimal now – just for additional DSP – and incorporate a mixing console down the track?
If you own any of the units with a SoundGrid server (such as DLS or IOS) or have an IO unit with one of the external SoundGrid servers, you can use your SoundGrid compatible plugins and mix with low latency just like you would on a digital console. You do not need to buy an actual console for that. In fact, as I stated earlier, you can even mix in your DAW using StudioRack and have your 'live' mix respond to automations.

Unlike some other products in the market, if you use realtime monitoring with plugins processing while you're recording, your recorded signal remains completely dry.

some examples from my personal experience:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMM0Ucb2Edc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtLlAttS5pE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frantz
Question about overdubs. Does the eMotion mixer merge the live input with the DAW output? If I monitor a virtual guitar amp while recording, will the playback be routed to that same virtual amp?
You have absolute control on that. You can apply effects to each channel separately, place them on the master bus or on an AUX bus. You can certainly have guitar processed through the amp and have the PB completely dry...

This video might help a little bit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Habz4308BQ
Old 28th July 2014
  #57
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innervisions View Post
Hey guys.
My name is Eyal Amir, and I work for Waves.
Feel free to ask more questions regarding the whole system. I will stop by a little later and go through each post to see if I can contribute something to the discussion.
Yes- With regards to using an IOS with a PT11 HD NAtive Thunderbolt system...

1) Please detail the roundtrip analog to analog monitoring latency with 4 Waves Plugins through one of the Soundgrid I/O boxes and PT11.

Mic --> SG I/O --> 4 plugins in Emotion mixer --> SG i/O --> Headphones (DAW = PT11 Native with buffer set to 512)
Please include any buffer settings from the Waves SG system.
AT:
1A) 44.1kHz
1B) 96kHz

2) Also is there any latency difference between different SG I/O boxes (DLS and IOS for instance)

3) Lastly - if one wants to use a NON-SG plugin for monitoring (AVID plug in for instance) - forcing one to go THROUGH PT and not straight through the LowLatency waves path - what would be the total latency for --

Mic --> SG I/O --> 1 PT11 AAX Plugin --> SG i/O --> Headphones (DAW = PT11 Native with buffer set to either 44.1/32 or 96/64)

Thanks
Old 28th July 2014
  #58
Gear Head
 

Since I'm not a PT user, I have forwarded the question to some of the more qualified people at Waves and will get an answer soon.

I will add that if you monitor through eMotion or even through a StudioRack chain opened in your DAW, it will monitor the sound directly from the hardware (with whatever plugins you choose) regardless of the buffer size in your DAW. So let's say you have a mix with 1,000 native (non-SoundGrid) plugins and a buffer of 1024 or 2048 samples, and your'e recording a new vocal track through an IOS with a bunch of plugins for monitoring through StudioRack/eMotion, you will still get the same low latency as you would on a 64 samples setting.
Old 28th July 2014
  #59
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innervisions View Post
Since I'm not a PT user, I have forwarded the question to some of the more qualified people at Waves and will get an answer soon.

I will add that if you monitor through eMotion or even through a StudioRack chain opened in your DAW, it will monitor the sound directly from the hardware (with whatever plugins you choose) regardless of the buffer size in your DAW. So let's say you have a mix with 1,000 native (non-SoundGrid) plugins and a buffer of 1024 or 2048 samples, and your'e recording a new vocal track through an IOS with a bunch of plugins for monitoring through StudioRack/eMotion, you will still get the same low latency as you would on a 64 samples setting.
Very much appreciated!

And, yes, I totally get how it works - I just want the actual latency number in ms that I will get at 44.1 and 96kHz using the SR/eMotion path. Also, is there a Buffer setting in the Soundgrid server that influences the monitoring latency (this was alluded to last Winter as 80 samples).
Old 28th July 2014
  #60
Lives for gear
 
BillSimpkins's Avatar
I am trying to figure out which need this fills. With a 100+ track session I can easily run all the plugins I need on half of my physical CPU's (2) and it only uses up to 40% of the two physical CPU's. I have no problem with latency while tracking because I just use "no latency monitoring". All the plugs still work, just not on the track that is armed for recording … which is totally fine. delay compensation works great while tracking even with the hardware buffers cranked up.

There are also many great plugins that introduce no latency that you can use while tracking. I could see a few special cases where this could be helpful, like maybe trans-continental production teams, but that doesn't seem like a sustainable market when they are probably running on TDM or HDX systems anyways.

Again, I don't see what problem they are solving.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump