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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 16th August 2016
  #2701
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
@lemix

Why you just don't use the USB? It should be possible to connect first A16 unit via USB and second unit via AVB to it. You don't even need AVB switch for such setup.
With two units, you should fit to 64 channel USB limit and don't be really concerned about previously mentioned sample rate limitations.

Michal
Actually, if you use 2x rates (88.2 or 96kHz), you'll halve the limit to 32 simultaneous I/Os. 4x rates will halve that again to 16 I/O.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
AVB mode just via Ethernet NIC is only supported at Mac OS X El Cap. and has already few limitations like no 44.1 based rates. I have no clue about performance, when using this connection, but I wouldn't be surprised, if USB mode will be better.

Michal
This is news to me, Michal. I thought that this protocol had no SR restrictions. That said, if this is true, I wonder if the base rate (48kHz I assume) is related to the whole video thing... whatever that is).

I'm also curious as to how much, if at all, higher SRs affect the total available channel count, specified as 128 max over Ethernet NIC.

This information is critical to me, so hopefully someone can chime in.
Old 16th August 2016
  #2702
tft
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas303 View Post
If I buy a Motu AVB 16A, can I use my Ultralite AVB to add 10 more inputs? It's not explicitly stated anywhere online AFAICT
yes sure, via networkcable and avb-streams ( need to be enabled in the webapp of ultralite and 16a). it's bidirectional, so you can also use the outputs of the ultralite simultaneously.
Old 16th August 2016
  #2703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Actually, if you use 2x rates (88.2 or 96kHz), you'll halve the limit to 32 simultaneous I/Os. 4x rates will halve that again to 16 I/O.
So that shouldn't be problem with mentioned setup with two 16A units. You'll get 32 analogue I/Os at 2fs.
Frankly, if someone's project needs multitrack at 4fs (maybe client request), it's very rare (like recording symphony orchestra with lots of spot mics) and all snobism aside, it likely won't be tracked via MOTU gear.

Quote:
This is news to me, Michal. I thought that this protocol had no SR restrictions. That said, if this is true, I wonder if the base rate (48kHz I assume) is related to the whole video thing... whatever that is).

I'm also curious as to how much, if at all, higher SRs affect the total available channel count, specified as 128 max over Ethernet NIC.

This information is critical to me, so hopefully someone can chime in.
48k based rates aren't limitation of AVB protocol, as for example connection between hardware MOTU interfaces and stageboxes works also at 44k, but the limitation of Apple's AVB software endpoint built-in at OS X.
And as this is only currently supported software AVB endpoint, you're essentially limited to those sample rates.

With regards to AVB channel count, it's not so easy.. it depends on couple factors. One thing is theoretical count given by the protocol and other is particular implementation of AVB streams at endpoint (eg. you likely don't have arbitrary number of channels per stream for every given device, MOTU have 8ch per stream).
Protocol.. with rather extensive breakdown
https://avb.statusbar.com/page/faq/#...-link-with-avb
MOTU's implementation
MOTU.com - MOTU AVB FAQ
Anyway, if you'll be thinking about some complex setup, exact topology, used endpoints and network components also plays role there.. So it might be beneficial to contact MOTU support for some pre-sales consultation and verification.

Michal
Old 17th August 2016
  #2704
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
So that shouldn't be problem with mentioned setup with two 16A units. You'll get 32 analogue I/Os at 2fs.
Frankly, if someone's project needs multitrack at 4fs (maybe client request), it's very rare (like recording symphony orchestra with lots of spot mics) and all snobism aside, it likely won't be tracked via MOTU gear.
Actually, it was lemix who enquired about this, Michal. He said he was "seriously looking into buying two A16 units" and mentioned the ethernet option. I was simply pointing out the channel-count limitation imposed by USB when running at 2 or 3x rates.

My setup will require 2 or 3 x 24Ai and 1 16A unit. Lots of MIDI gear.

Thanks for your comment anyway; I agree with you about 4x. 2x might be handy in my situation 'though 'cause complex mixes with lots of processing and summing going on could benefit IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
48k based rates aren't limitation of AVB protocol, as for example connection between hardware MOTU interfaces and stageboxes works also at 44k, but the limitation of Apple's AVB software endpoint built-in at OS X.
And as this is only currently supported software AVB endpoint, you're essentially limited to those sample rates.
Dang. Bad news for now then; thank you for clarifying that, Michal. I say "bad" 'cause I've always worked at 44.1 in the past and am just used to it. No biggie obviously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
With regards to AVB channel count, it's not so easy.. it depends on couple factors. One thing is theoretical count given by the protocol and other is particular implementation of AVB streams at endpoint (eg. you likely don't have arbitrary number of channels per stream for every given device, MOTU have 8ch per stream).
Protocol.. with rather extensive breakdown
https://avb.statusbar.com/page/faq/#...-link-with-avb
MOTU's implementation
MOTU.com - MOTU AVB FAQ
Anyway, if you'll be thinking about some complex setup, exact topology, used endpoints and network components also plays role there.. So it might be beneficial to contact MOTU support for some pre-sales consultation and verification.

Michal
I think it should be simple:
2 or 3 24Ai & 1x16A into MOTU switch box.
MOTU switch box to e-net card on 'puter.

I think that's how it goes. It's either that or USB, which would require downsizing MIDI setup and also sticking to 1x rates.

Thanks again, mate.
Nicky
Old 17th August 2016
  #2705
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That's pretty big setup.. maximal mentioned configuration with 3x24 Ai and 16A means theoretical 88 inputs to the computer.. without counting any digital input at 16A.

I'm not sure, how that would perform using just software AVB endpoint in OS X.. performance wise, real latency and stability under load with such number of channels.
USB option might be better with short buffers, but you won't fit all channels there.
Naturally TB connection will give you both best performance and enough bandwidth..
I'm assuming you're asking for other alternatives, because your computer doesn't have TB port (like old MacPro), but if you'd like to utilize full potential of the setup without any limitations, be prepared also for that.
It that case, I'd maybe split investment to two rounds.. start with smaller configuration via USB and then upgrade to full I/O count later together with new computer.

Good luck!

Michal
Old 17th August 2016
  #2706
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Yeah, that's exactly what I've considered, Michal. Unfortunately that would mean selling synths in the meantime, and then re-purchasing them for the expansion later on. I can't afford that.

Yes, I'm on a 2012 Mac Pro (cheese grater, so TB can't be installed.)

Obviously the 3x24 Ai and 16A thing (the "big" setup you referred to) would be for ethernet use, and the 2x24 Ai and 16A for USB.

The thing is that Mr. Miller assured me long ago that the ethernet option would be fine and act, for all intents and purposes, like the TB one. I pressed him for an indication of how much CPU drain there'd be, but couldn't get even a ballpark figure, unfortunately, so I'm flying blind here. He did say there'd be a 128-chan limit, so I figured that the 88-chan maximum I'd reach would mean that I'd not be pushing things too hard. I'd never be using all of them at the same time, but I'm not sure if that makes any difference from the Mac / e-card's point of view if they're "active" anyway. The option to work at 96kHz is enticing too.

Any thoughts on the matter will be very much appreciated, mate, and thank you for chiming in already. I'm truly grateful.
Old 17th August 2016
  #2707
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
48k based rates aren't limitation of AVB protocol, as for example connection between hardware MOTU interfaces and stageboxes works also at 44k, but the limitation of Apple's AVB software endpoint built-in at OS X.
And as this is only currently supported software AVB endpoint, you're essentially limited to those sample rates.

Michal
Does this mean that you can connect a bunch of MOTU AVB interfaces via AVB and use 44.1k as long as the computer connects to the interface via Thunderbolt or USB (i.e. not AVB to the computer)?
Old 17th August 2016
  #2708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzebub View Post
Does this mean that you can connect a bunch of MOTU AVB interfaces via AVB and use 44.1k as long as the computer connects to the interface via Thunderbolt or USB (i.e. not AVB to the computer)?
Yes, exactly.
Old 17th August 2016
  #2709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Phillips View Post
Yes, exactly.
Great, thanks!
Old 22nd August 2016
  #2710
Here for the gear
Hello,

I haven't been able to find an answer in any searches. I was wondering if you can control the motu avb preamps in logic pro x like i can with my apogee quartet?

thanks,
Ryan
Old 22nd August 2016
  #2711
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rockreid's Avatar
 

Just wondering is any Windows 10 users were having success with the latest Beta Thunderbolt Drivers. I am having mixed results, a problem with my new build ASUS X99 DEluxe II motherboard based PC where Windows 10 always sees the MOTU 1248 unit just fine in the Device Manager and the Sound control panel but occasionally loses communication with between any audio apps (Studio One 3, Reaper, etc) and the MOTU unit.

Connection is through the EX3 Thunderbolt card's USB-C port to a USB-C- Thunderbolt 2 adaptor then to a 10 ft Thunderbolt 2 cable to the MOTU unit. For some reason the Ex3 card's Thunderbolt 2 port straight out into the MOTU always produces a white noise to the speakers when plugged in (WTF?) Is it possible there is a ground issue between the MOTU and the PC? I have clean power with no noise issues from any other equipment. I am still trying to get my new PC build stable where sometimes it hangs during boot up but it is maddening with the occasional non-working status even though MOTU is just fine in the Device Manager. When it is working the Latency reported by Studio One 3 is insanely low and sounds great.

Last edited by rockreid; 22nd August 2016 at 10:39 PM..
Old 23rd August 2016
  #2712
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockreid View Post
Just wondering is any Windows 10 users were having success with the latest Beta Thunderbolt Drivers. I am having mixed results, a problem with my new build ASUS X99 DEluxe II motherboard based PC where Windows 10 always sees the MOTU 1248 unit just fine in the Device Manager and the Sound control panel but occasionally loses communication with between any audio apps (Studio One 3, Reaper, etc) and the MOTU unit.

Connection is through the EX3 Thunderbolt card's USB-C port to a USB-C- Thunderbolt 2 adaptor then to a 10 ft Thunderbolt 2 cable to the MOTU unit. For some reason the Ex3 card's Thunderbolt 2 port straight out into the MOTU always produces a white noise to the speakers when plugged in (WTF?) Is it possible there is a ground issue between the MOTU and the PC? I have clean power with no noise issues from any other equipment. I am still trying to get my new PC build stable where sometimes it hangs during boot up but it is maddening with the occasional non-working status even though MOTU is just fine in the Device Manager. When it is working the Latency reported by Studio One 3 is insanely low and sounds great.
I may be misunderstanding, but - according to the Asus site, that card has only a single Thunderbolt port, in USB-C format. The other one, which also uses a Thunderbolt-style connector, is a Display Port input (not output, apparently). See ThunderboltEX 3 | Motherboard Accessories | ASUS USA.
Old 23rd August 2016
  #2713
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Wow do I feel dumb about that DisplayPort. No wonder I was getting a weird noise plugging it in there. Lol. THe USB_C port to TB2 adaptor seems to work well, just finished recording at 96k 128 buffer clean no pops with 3.3ms latency. Killer. Now if I can get the MOTU to stay communicating with my software 100%.
Old 28th August 2016
  #2714
Finally got to install my MOTU 8M on my budget i3 6100 Windows 10 PC. Running smoothly on 64 sample host and 8 samples safety offset buffers. Ableton reported RTL is 3 ms at 48 kHz and runs glitch free at 80% CPU. My MacMini server achieves 3.35 ms using Thunderbolt at 64 samples. Lowest stable sample buffers over USB in OSX on the same Mac is 128.

My sole reason to choose a Mac over a self built budget PC just disappeared. Well done MOTU.

The best part is the price paid: $700 including an AMD R9 380 GPU.
Old 28th August 2016
  #2715
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loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandvg99 View Post
Finally got to install my MOTU 8M on my budget i3 6100 Windows 10 PC. Running smoothly on 64 sample host and 8 samples safety offset buffers. Ableton reported RTL is 3 ms at 48 kHz and runs glitch free at 80% CPU. My MacMini server achieves 3.35 ms using Thunderbolt at 64 samples. Lowest stable sample buffers over USB in OSX on the same Mac is 128.

My sole reason to choose a Mac over a self built budget PC just disappeared. Well done MOTU.

The best part is the price paid: $700 including an AMD R9 380 GPU.
MOTU seem dead serious about delivering quality Windows support and they are doing just that.
A few years ago, like 10, if someone asked me about MOTU and Windows I would have admitted MOTU is more of a Mac focused company, which IMHO they were.

Not anymore.
My Ultralite AVB is rock solid under Windows 10 and it sounds great as well.
It's obvious MOTU is dead serious about providing high quality, super low latency, stable drivers. And support is professional and excellent.

$700 is a great price BTW.
I think I paid about $650 new for the Ultralite AVB about a year ago.
Old 3rd September 2016
  #2716
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New Firmware and drivers out today.

Don't what I did and just update the firmware and wonder why you can't connect to your DAW. Load the drivers too.
I didn't see there was new drivers until I checked on the MOTU site.
Old 3rd September 2016
  #2717
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loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by javajunkie View Post
New Firmware and drivers out today.

Don't what I did and just update the firmware and wonder why you can't connect to your DAW. Load the drivers too.
I didn't see there was new drivers until I checked on the MOTU site.
I agree.
It is a little confusing.

I installed them yesterday. I fired up the Discovery App and it said updated drivers are available. I clicked on update and it downloaded and installed the firmware. Then I went to the site and downloaded and installed the discovery app which contains the actual drivers.

Worked fine.

I haven't found a file that has specific improvements per version. Just the genric, we improved latency, etc readme which has been the same for a while now.
Old 4th September 2016
  #2718
Dang! New firmware and driver didn't play well in 32-bit on latest Windows 10 insider... Not able to install without a driver error.
Old 4th September 2016
  #2719
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So far so good with my new MOTU beta drivers Thunderbolt 1248 unit and my monster 6900k ASUS x99 deluxe II build. Reaper runs unbelievable low latency of 1.6ms at 96k 64 buffer. The new Waves Abbey Plates plug only pulls 1.7% CPU in Reaper in my config. Diva only 0.7%vwith a stock preset. A monster low latency rig.

Btw, wtf is wrong with Studio One 3 ? The same Waves plug is taking 30% CPU with one instance and huge CPU spikes everywhere at 96k? PreSonus fail.
Old 5th September 2016
  #2720
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loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockreid View Post
So far so good with my new MOTU beta drivers Thunderbolt 1248 unit and my monster 6900k ASUS x99 deluxe II build. Reaper runs unbelievable low latency of 1.6ms at 96k 64 buffer. The new Waves Abbey Plates plug only pulls 1.7% CPU in Reaper in my config. Diva only 0.7%vwith a stock preset. A monster low latency rig.

Btw, wtf is wrong with Studio One 3 ? The same Waves plug is taking 30% CPU with one instance and huge CPU spikes everywhere at 96k? PreSonus fail.
Are you using the latest update (like last week) to Studio One v3 Professional? If so, lots of bugs in that one. Presonus is working on an update. Don't know if that's one of the bugs though but it might be.
Old 5th September 2016
  #2721
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rockreid's Avatar
 

Yes, latest Studio One 3 updates. I don't know what it is about Studio One that seems to very often produce wacky latency and/or plugin issues with every other update.
Old 6th September 2016
  #2722
Album done on MOTU 16A

I have just released my 5th Album. Borrowed Time.

Its all me.... well, I had a female do a harmony on track 2 of 10.. hope that still counts

I wrote all the tunes, played all the instruments, built the studio, and built/modded a lot of the gear, including my Soundcraft Delta console.

Gear used is stuff like Warm 76, Warm Pultec, Stam Sa2A, DBX 163X, DBX161,Golden Age COMP 54, Drip LA2A and STA. JLM PREAMPS , BAE 1073 Capi preamp JLM LA500 Comp.

Neumann U87, Km84, KM184, 57s, MD421, M201,Rode NTR
Mixed on Adam A7s

Soundcraft Delta Modded Console.

DAW is Logic Pro X

Converters Motu 16A which is connected via thunderbolt to my iMac.

I monitored though Motu's mixer mostly, but occasionally through logic. It worked really well, buffers most of the time set to 256 when monitoring via MOTU and 32 when monitoring through Logic. Its been stable, and reliable.


Summed ITB, reamped tracks out of Logic via Delta and outboard.

The jewel in my crown is the Bricasti, which I have long saved for... its lovely, its the M7M

Relax 480L is the only other verb used.

Here is a youtube video of the song "Troubadour" my tribute to JJ Cale (big influence)





The whole album is available via my website

www.ozlandmusic.com

or iTunes which you can get to from the website...

would love to answer any questions about the recording..thats what we are slutz for 8)

cheers

Wiz
Old 9th September 2016
  #2723
Here for the gear
Hi,
although an oldish question, I use the Monitor8 in my studio for headphone distribution.
As an artist headphone during tracking they are fine, although it depends on headphones u use. I use a binch of Beyer DT100's, and thats fine for most intents and purposes. For drumtracking I couple it to the ATH-M50x, has more power.
For critical listening I prefer a dedicated headphone amp, due to beter conevrsioen etc.

Hope this still helps
Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirky View Post
Has anybody compared the quality of the headphone amplifier of the Motu 8M with a proper headphone amp? How does it hold up?

I'm thinking of purchasing a Sennheiser HD 800 and I'm wondering if I'm gonna have to spend extra money on a headphone amplifier or if the headphone output of my Motu 8M will suffice... Of course it's not gonna compare to a 1000+$ headphone amp, but I don't have that kind of budget anyway. So would i notice a significant difference between the 8M's headphone preamp and say a 200-300$ dedicated headphone preamp?

Thanks for your help!
Cheers
Old 10th September 2016
  #2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz_Oz View Post
I have just released my 5th Album. Borrowed Time......
Awesome! And nice gearslutty video. Love the old Marshall.

We recently released a new vid from our latest, all done on 16As.

Old 10th September 2016
  #2725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robby in WA View Post
Awesome! And nice gearslutty video. Love the old Marshall.

We recently released a new vid from our latest, all done on 16As.

Hi Robby

wow there is a lot of work in your video, and some really beautiful locations!!

Great stuff, thats so much work ( I know , I have done them too 8) )

I really like the complexity of the playing and arrangement, and the song recording and mix sounds great...

congratulations...


Oh, the old Marshall is actually, a new little one 8) its one of the 50th anniversary JMP1's


cheers and thanks for checking out my video and taking the time to comment and share yours..

Wiz
Old 11th September 2016
  #2726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz_Oz View Post
Hi Robby

wow there is a lot of work in your video, and some really beautiful locations!!

Great stuff, thats so much work ( I know , I have done them too 8) )

I really like the complexity of the playing and arrangement, and the song recording and mix sounds great...

congratulations...


Oh, the old Marshall is actually, a new little one 8) its one of the 50th anniversary JMP1's


cheers and thanks for checking out my video and taking the time to comment and share yours..

Wiz
And thank you for checking out ours. Yea, the videos are a lot of work, but it seems the best way to get your music to be heard. I want to do a story on the next one, which takes a lot more planning.

I love your idea with the tape and lyrics. Simple, but effective - keeps your attention. The recording sounds great too - present, clean, authentic.

I have an SA2A en route from Chile, can't wait to use it. Your other video demo'ing it was big factor in pulling the trigger.

Fooled me on the Marshall.

Cheers and best
Old 15th September 2016
  #2727
One thing I'm still not getting: if I connect, say, a 16A to my Macbookpro via Thunderbolt, and a second 16A via Ethernet cable, will they be perfectly in sync to the sample? And if I connect a 16A to my Macbookpro via Thunderbolt, and I connect a second 16A via AVB Switch? I am trying to understand if they become part of a big system at the best possible latency.
Old 15th September 2016
  #2728
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmatibet View Post
One thing I'm still not getting: if I connect, say, a to my Macbookpro via Thunderbolt, and a second 16A via Ethernet cable, will they be perfectly in sync to the sample? And if I connect a 16A to my Macbookpro via Thunderbolt, and I connect a second 16A via ? I am trying to understand if they become part of a big system at the best possible latency.
I've just added a 16A to my via the MOTU AVB hub to submix my Synths (the 112D is connected to my Mac via USB) , and there is no detectable latency in my system. I could of just connected the 112D to the 16A directly via an Ethernet cable, but chose to use the hub to make updating easier and also I need to add another AVB interface to the system. Very impressed with the stability and routing options of these interfaces

Last edited by digital_io; 15th September 2016 at 02:50 PM..
Old 15th September 2016
  #2729
Quote:
Originally Posted by digital_io View Post
I've just added a 16A to my via the MOTU AVB hub to submit my Synths (the 112D is connected to my Mac via USB , and there is no detectable latency in my system. I could of just connected the 112D to the 16A directly via an Ethernet cable, but chose to use the hub to make updating easier and also I need to add another AVB interface to the system. Very impressed with the stability and routing options of these interfaces
very interested! thankyou!
Old 17th September 2016
  #2730
Here for the gear
 
Janzoulou's Avatar
Hi, all!
I just bought an 112D and an 24o. System yosemite 10.10.5 and everything works well.... DAW´s are PT 11 Nuendo 7 and Logic-x... So far so good.

If AVB is installed and I am configuring my system, like installing some plugs Logic-X is hardly starting... Once I uninstal everything related to Motu everything is fine.

Any ideas? Are there any setup-changes regarding Network?

the AVB - system is configured like that:
112D connected to Macpro 6.1 via TB and the 24o is connected to the 112D via Ethernet cable. the discovery app works like a charm and the set up is also doing and responding propper...

Thx a lot!!

Firmware is uptodate and I used the latest beta driver... maybe thats the issue?
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