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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 7th May 2016
  #2581
Gear Maniac
1.1 on 32 44k.
Old 9th May 2016
  #2582
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jlaws's Avatar
How stable at 32?
Old 9th May 2016
  #2583
Gear Maniac
mac, until now, very stable. of course, with many plugs in is another story. however, on low latency mode, very very good latency even on 512. Logic pro x 1.1 on 32 44k. very very nice.new beta driver for me/
Old 9th May 2016
  #2584
Gear Addict
 
rob61's Avatar
 

Ouch... Windows 7, 16a, Nuendo. BEFORE updating to the new firmware/drivers, I used "Standard" with 256 buffer and had 9.796 in, 9.796 out as reported by Nuendo. Just updated and now at 256 buffer I get 11.610 In, 17.415 out using USB.

Also, I no longer have any applet to set "Standard", "Relaxed", etc. Where do I set that, or have we lost that parameter? Now when I click in Nuendo, I only get the Web Interface device screen to set buffer size. Am I missing something here? I thought this was going to improve things but I'm getting slower throughput.
Old 9th May 2016
  #2585
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loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob61 View Post
Ouch... Windows 7, 16a, Nuendo. BEFORE updating to the new firmware/drivers, I used "Standard" with 256 buffer and had 9.796 in, 9.796 out as reported by Nuendo. Just updated and now at 256 buffer I get 11.610 In, 17.415 out using USB.

Also, I no longer have any applet to set "Standard", "Relaxed", etc. Where do I set that, or have we lost that parameter? Now when I click in Nuendo, I only get the Web Interface device screen to set buffer size. Am I missing something here? I thought this was going to improve things but I'm getting slower throughput.
It looks like they removed the ability to set the "safety buffer". Here is another thread on it courtesy of our friends in the Sonar group.

New Thunderbolt Drivers for MOTU | Cakewalk Forums
Old 9th May 2016
  #2586
Gear Nut
Hi everyone, I hope you're enjoying the new Pro Audio beta driver so far! I just wanted to let you know that we have a direct contact you can send any findings or concerns to.

Please address all Pro Audio beta driver matters to: [email protected]
Old 10th May 2016
  #2587
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travisvictor View Post
Hi everyone, I hope you're enjoying the new Pro Audio beta driver so far! I just wanted to let you know that we have a direct contact you can send any findings or concerns to.

Please address all Pro Audio beta driver matters to: [email protected]

Yep, and they are quite responsive, they fixed the issue I was having this morning.
Old 10th May 2016
  #2588
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by javajunkie View Post
Yep, and they are quite responsive, they fixed the issue I was having this morning.
Excellent!
Care to elaborate?
It might help out others having the same problem.
Old 10th May 2016
  #2589
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy View Post
Excellent!
Care to elaborate?
It might help out others having the same problem.
When I would select a buffer size it would be fine for a brief time, hiccup, then I would get extreme latency. If you had the issue, you would probably know. They had a new build that fixed and said the fix will be released in the next beta.
Old 10th May 2016
  #2590
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loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by javajunkie View Post
When I would select a buffer size it would be fine for a brief time, hiccup, then I would get extreme latency. If you had the issue, you would probably know. They had a new build that fixed and said the fix will be released in the next beta.
Perfect!
Thank you for the details!
I do not have that problem but I am getting random clicks after about say 3 minutes of playing Ivory, Ravenscroft 275 pianos. Doesn't happen right away but happens a few minutes into playing. I'm trying to nail it down to see if it's something I can set my watch by or just a ways into playing.
I haven't reported it yet as I want to gather some more specific data.
Old 11th May 2016
  #2591
Gear Nut
 
wilkinsi's Avatar
MOTU have released v1.2.6 firmware for the AVB devices and a new beta driver. I haven't noticed any differences in latency, and there are no prompts on the web app for latency settings. Perhaps its because I'm using a Mac with Thunderbolt? Or am I supposed to uninstall the previous web app driver first?
Old 18th May 2016
  #2592
Gear Maniac
 
demane22's Avatar
I just picked up a 16A to do some testing on the windows side with the new thunderbolt drivers. I have 2 systems equipped with thunderbolt 2 ports, Asus Z87-DELUXE/QUAD & Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD7 TH both running Windows 10. Will report back soon.
Old 18th May 2016
  #2593
Gear Nut
 
Rafter Man's Avatar
There's a new update available. 1.2.7, but it appears the only changes are for Windows users adding the "Host Safety Offset" setting, aka USB Streaming Mode. Why only for Windows and not Mac as well?
Old 18th May 2016
  #2594
Gear Nut
Hey guys, I hope everybody's having a good week. Just wanted to let you all know that MOTU just posted a new beta release for our Pro Audio Driver. You can get it at the link below.

MOTU.com - AVB

Give it a try and enjoy!
Old 18th May 2016
  #2595
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafter Man View Post
There's a new update available. 1.2.7, but it appears the only changes are for Windows users adding the "Host Safety Offset" setting, aka USB Streaming Mode. Why only for Windows and not Mac as well?

The safety offset setting is not needed on OS X because Core Audio provides very stable timing. Our Mac driver uses a (very low) fixed safety offset.
Old 19th May 2016
  #2596
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Just updated my Ultralite AVB. Gonna do some RTL measurements and testing... Once again, thank you to MOTU for staying in touch with the community.. You guys may not realize it but a presence on boards like GS and others means a LOT to us and in particular to professionals who depend upon support now and then.

Even if it's warm fuzzy needed to push a ticket along, it's important to us.
Transparency is another super important concept. If something is broke, a driver, hardware, compatibility, performance, whatever, the worst thing a manufacturer can do IMHO is to deny, blow smoke and blame the user from the outset.
Stuff breaks.
We know this.
We just want to know that it's being worked on and fix is coming soon or if a fix isn't possible we need to know that as well so we can adjust.

Now we all know all interface manufacturers support lines are probably overloaded with the guy who is complaining of poor performance, clicks and pops etc and after 4 hours on the phone it is determined he has 49 and half other programs and applets (weatherbug, cortana, auto search engines etc) loaded up and running on his taskbar.
Duhhhh.

We get it.
We really do.

And that guy needs to be educated so he can utilize the full benefits of the product.

So IMHO the best thing MOTU, or any other manufacturer can do is to have a rep involved in the major communities like GS. Not as a substitute for official tech support but as a person who can provide value and insight to professionals who hang out on these type of sites.

The worst thing you can do is lie / deny and expect to get away with it. It will never work in the long term and a reputation is something that is earned, can be damaged quickly and will take a long time to rebuild the trust.

In my opinion MOTU is doing things right.

So when your boss complains you are spending too much time in forums and not adding value, show him my post
Old 19th May 2016
  #2597
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Great points Loopy.

He might also want to tell his boss, in that situation, that he'd actually saved plenty of client-troubleshooting time due to the fact that folks were able to first identify similar issues to their own, along with fixes, in the forum concerned (read: this thread!).

To me this is the most valuable aspect of it all. I mean, and this obviously applies to all communications of this nature by companies, how many support tickets has each of us managed to avoid creating due to this fact alone?
Old 19th May 2016
  #2598
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy View Post
Just updated my Ultralite AVB. Gonna do some RTL measurements and testing... Once again, thank you to MOTU for staying in touch with the community.. You guys may not realize it but a presence on boards like GS and others means a LOT to us and in particular to professionals who depend upon support now and then.

Even if it's warm fuzzy needed to push a ticket along, it's important to us.
Transparency is another super important concept. If something is broke, a driver, hardware, compatibility, performance, whatever, the worst thing a manufacturer can do IMHO is to deny, blow smoke and blame the user from the outset.
Stuff breaks.
We know this.
We just want to know that it's being worked on and fix is coming soon or if a fix isn't possible we need to know that as well so we can adjust.

Now we all know all interface manufacturers support lines are probably overloaded with the guy who is complaining of poor performance, clicks and pops etc and after 4 hours on the phone it is determined he has 49 and half other programs and applets (weatherbug, cortana, auto search engines etc) loaded up and running on his taskbar.
Duhhhh.

We get it.
We really do.

And that guy needs to be educated so he can utilize the full benefits of the product.

So IMHO the best thing MOTU, or any other manufacturer can do is to have a rep involved in the major communities like GS. Not as a substitute for official tech support but as a person who can provide value and insight to professionals who hang out on these type of sites.

The worst thing you can do is lie / deny and expect to get away with it. It will never work in the long term and a reputation is something that is earned, can be damaged quickly and will take a long time to rebuild the trust.

In my opinion MOTU is doing things right.

So when your boss complains you are spending too much time in forums and not adding value, show him my post
Did you try the new one?
Do you have figures on performance?
Old 19th May 2016
  #2599
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Here are some numbers from Reaper. To test playability I fired up Ivory American D with 1000 voices and all bells and whistles on. The unplayable entries are truly unplayable in that hitting even a couple of keys produces clicks and pops. The playable entries are just that. Even playing complex pieces there isn't a click or pop at all.

This should give you an idea. I find Reaper's reporting of RTL to be pretty close to Oblique. I'll test a few with Oblique later today if I get some free time.

44.1k

Host Buffer Size Host Safety Offset RTL Reaper Comment

64 Samples 8 Samples 1.6ms / 1.6ms Not playable

64 Samples 12 Samples 1.7ms /1.7ms Not playable

64 Samples 16 Samples 1.8ms /1.8ms Not playable

64 Samples 24 Samples 1.8ms /1.8ms Playable

64 Samples 32 Samples 2.1ms / 2.1 ms Playable

64 Samples 48 Samples 2.5ms / 2.5 ms Playable

64 Samples 64 Samples 2.9ms / 2.9 ms Playable

64 Samples 128 Samples 4.3 ms / 4.3 ms Playable

64 Samples 256 Samples 7.2 ms / 7.2 ms Playable

128 Samples 48 Samples 3.9ms / 3.9 ms Playable

256 Samples 48 Samples 6.8ms /6.8 ms Playable
Old 19th May 2016
  #2600
Lives for gear
 
jlaws's Avatar
I wonder if 64 samples+128 would be as stable as 126+48.
Old 20th May 2016
  #2601
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Quint's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy View Post
Here are some numbers from Reaper. To test playability I fired up Ivory American D with 1000 voices and all bells and whistles on. The unplayable entries are truly unplayable in that hitting even a couple of keys produces clicks and pops. The playable entries are just that. Even playing complex pieces there isn't a click or pop at all.

This should give you an idea. I find Reaper's reporting of RTL to be pretty close to Oblique. I'll test a few with Oblique later today if I get some free time.

44.1k

Host Buffer Size Host Safety Offset RTL Reaper Comment

64 Samples 8 Samples 1.6ms / 1.6ms Not playable

64 Samples 12 Samples 1.7ms /1.7ms Not playable

64 Samples 16 Samples 1.8ms /1.8ms Not playable

64 Samples 24 Samples 1.8ms /1.8ms Playable

64 Samples 32 Samples 2.1ms / 2.1 ms Playable

64 Samples 48 Samples 2.5ms / 2.5 ms Playable

64 Samples 64 Samples 2.9ms / 2.9 ms Playable

64 Samples 128 Samples 4.3 ms / 4.3 ms Playable

64 Samples 256 Samples 7.2 ms / 7.2 ms Playable

128 Samples 48 Samples 3.9ms / 3.9 ms Playable

256 Samples 48 Samples 6.8ms /6.8 ms Playable
Whether it's 1.8 ms or 2.9 ms, it seems that the important take home message from this is that latency at these speeds is, for all intents and purposes, imperceptible. Good job Motu.

By the way, was this mac or pc?
Old 20th May 2016
  #2602
Gear Nut
 
wilkinsi's Avatar
I've updated to 1.2.7, but I don't notice any difference in latency.
Old 20th May 2016
  #2603
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quint View Post
Whether it's 1.8 ms or 2.9 ms, it seems that the important take home message from this is that latency at these speeds is, for all intents and purposes, imperceptible. Good job Motu.

By the way, was this mac or pc?
It was a a MOTU Ultralite AVB hooked to a PC via a USB2 port.
Looks like my signature didn't show up in the post.
Old 21st May 2016
  #2604
Gear Head
 

Hello All, after upgrading my 16a to new firmare. I am no longer able to access my MOTU discoverry app thru windows, I am able to do so thru muy ipad , but not with windows,
The access icon was also removed from my desktop!
Any ideas?
thanks!
Old 21st May 2016
  #2605
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lgmab View Post
Hello All, after upgrading my 16a to new firmare. I am no longer able to access my MOTU discoverry app thru windows, I am able to do so thru muy ipad , but not with windows,
The access icon was also removed from my desktop!
Any ideas?
thanks!
Go to the taskbar and click on that little upside down caret on the right side to show hidden icons then click on the MOTU discovery app icon, pick your interface and click on it.
Old 21st May 2016
  #2606
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Feature Request for MOTU::::

Allow the display to be turned off.

Seeing as you already have the code to blink it from the Discovery App, it should be easy.
Old 21st May 2016
  #2607
Gear Head
 

Hello Loopy, thank you for the solution. Its an odd thing that I am no longer able to get it to appear on my desktop as an icon.

Also, if anyone has experienced this, please let me know.
I am using Sonar Platinum, on heavier projects, I get pops, cracks, dropouts etc...I tried fiddling with the buffer sizes and am not able to ameliorate this problem. It is MOST pronounced and TERRIBLY painful when I run a looped segment , after approx. a few minutes, I get a super loud POP out of my speakers and need to reset the audio engine on my DAW. I am using a fairly powerful computer, 16GB ram and i7 4710 processor....
any help would be appreciated, Thanks!
Old 21st May 2016
  #2608
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lgmab View Post
Hello Loopy, thank you for the solution. Its an odd thing that I am no longer able to get it to appear on my desktop as an icon.

Also, if anyone has experienced this, please let me know.
I am using , on heavier projects, I get pops, cracks, dropouts etc...I tried fiddling with the buffer sizes and am not able to ameliorate this problem. It is MOST pronounced and TERRIBLY painful when I run a looped segment , after approx. a few minutes, I get a super loud POP out of my speakers and need to reset the audio engine on my DAW. I am using a fairly powerful computer, 16GB ram and i7 4710 processor....
any help would be appreciated, Thanks!
Ouch! That doesn't sound good at all

First thing I would do is try and duplicate the problem in another DAW so you can eliminate Sonar from the picture. Maybe Reaper?

If it's happening consistantly after a certain time period it could be some application kicking off on your system. Something like a screen saver, antivirus, back up sync program etc.

Try running Task Manager -> Resource Manager and bring up the screen with the CPU, Disk, Network graphs. Run your project and keep an eye on them to see what, if anything, spikes when you get the loud pop.

Also try one of the DPC latency checkers like LatencyMon. If you are running Windows 10 make sure the checker is compatible.
See what that shows.

P.S. I lost the Discovery Icon from my desktop as well.
Old 22nd May 2016
  #2609
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy View Post
Feature Request for MOTU::::

Allow the display to be turned off.

Seeing as you already have the code to blink it from the Discovery App, it should be easy.
I can see why that might be handy, loopy.

If I may add a related request:

If it's not possible to add some colour, namely yellow and then red for the level LEDs as all my previous MOTU interfaces showed, and I'm guessing it's not, I'd love to be able to purchase layovers / stick-ons that superimpose whatever colour coding is standard on your other interfaces (-12dB yellow and -1 or -3 () red?). These "stick-ons" should simply rely upon the typical semi-static, vacuum-effect styled membranes we see on newly-acquired synth screens, for instance; one could use them over and over and they wouldn't damage the interfaces in any way.

I realise there wouldn't be any money in it for you guys, but this simple value-adding option might well help attract customers, or at the very least make some existing owners very happy.

My eyesight is very poor, and it's not practical to wear glasses whilst working, so I've always relied upon sensible colour-coding of meters. The plain, bright-blue displays I'll soon have in my hands' lack of ability to help me discern levels in this way concern me greatly. It won't be practical to stoop down to the bottom of racks to place my head 10" or so from them in order to see what's going on. I've seen no mention of this anywhere yet, and am wondering if I'm missing something.

When tracking pre-programmed MIDI I'll be recording many tracks at a time, through multiple interfaces, and in this and other situations it's not feasible for me to use DP's meter bridge or indeed place my head on both sides of the workspace at the same time (no, I haven't tried!). Besides, I only have 1 monitor and try to keep things as spartan as possible.

Thank you, MOTU, for considering this as well as loopy's request; it's IMHO an easy "fix" and for once doesn't involve any programming!
Old 22nd May 2016
  #2610
Just did a RTL after the firmware update.

94 samples/ 1.07 ms at 88.2 buffer 1024; Mac via Thunderbolt

Whenever I update I have to redo my AVB Input streams; preset doesn't seem to remember. Not a big deal, but be nice to lose that step.
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