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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 30th March 2016
  #2491
tft
Gear Nut
 

just as a side note:

i spent quite some time to develop a lemur touchsurface for controling the mixer, but had serious issues with a timelag (up to several seconds for freq sweeps), that i was never able to overcome. support could not replicate it (i don't know how hard they tried, their response was a little slow and not very enthusiastic on this issue), so i stopped that project. after some tests with other software it became clear, that the osc implementation of the avb webapp must be the culprit (maybe only my device, a 112D, idk...). there was no timelag measurable anywhere else in the chain.

so my hope goes for a control-solution from motu.
Old 30th March 2016
  #2492
I don't really use the mixer...

what scenarios are you guys using it for? (Motto 16A)

Is anyone, actually mixing through it? sending out of their DAW and mixing with the Motu Mixer and printing that? summing?

Or are people mainly setting up headphone mixes?

cheers

Wiz
Old 31st March 2016
  #2493
tft
Gear Nut
 

i use a motu 112D (all digital in/out)

1) headphone mixes for recording.
external micpre/ad inputs into 112D routed to computer/daw for recording and split-routed to the avb mixer for headphones. headphonemixes from mixer routed to external da, also computer/daw masterbus to external da for monitors.

2) live mixing
external lineinputs-micpres/ad into 112D routed to mixer. controled via tablet and wifirouter.
mixer output (master) from 112D to external da, into PA. additional monitoring channels optional.
means no more laptop for livemixing and very low latency (about 1 ms roundtrip with my ad/da converter, before i had 4 to 5 ms via laptop/daw).

touch control could be more convenient though, as i pointed out above
Old 31st March 2016
  #2494
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by tft View Post
just as a side note:

i spent quite some time to develop a lemur touchsurface for controling the mixer, but had serious issues with a timelag (up to several seconds for freq sweeps), that i was never able to overcome. support could not replicate it (i don't know how hard they tried, their response was a little slow and not very enthusiastic on this issue), so i stopped that project. after some tests with other software it became clear, that the osc implementation of the avb webapp must be the culprit (maybe only my device, a 112D, idk...). there was no timelag measurable anywhere else in the chain.

so my hope goes for a control-solution from motu.
I got to spend sometime trying out the new Presonus Controller, RM Mixer and Studio One 3.2. I was really impressed with the intergration, things like being able to remote control the preamps and DSP directly from the DAW or using the controller.

I'd love to see a dedicated controller from MOTU not just for the hardware but also the various DAWs. If anything having such deep integration with Digital Performer would be enough to start with.

This would also be a great way to incorporate talkback, mono, dim, A-B monitoring functionality.
Old 31st March 2016
  #2495
tft
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KimGitz View Post
I got to spend sometime trying out the new Presonus Controller, RM Mixer and Studio One 3.2. I was really impressed with the intergration, things like being able to remote control the preamps and DSP directly from the DAW or using the controller.

I'd love to see a dedicated controller from MOTU not just for the hardware but also the various DAWs. If anything having such deep integration with Digital Performer would be enough to start with.

This would also be a great way to incorporate talkback, mono, dim, A-B monitoring functionality.
yes, i'd love to see motu taking the challenge

other companies already understood, how important this integration of functionality and control is, presonus rm and soundcraft ui (without interface functionality) being two examples.
this new kind of stagebox/digitalmixer integrated devices are becoming very popular very fast.
i guess it would even open up a new market for the avb interfaces. they are so close to it, just a better control via touchdevices would make a big difference.

and with a new more integrated touchcontrol surface it would be a good time to integrate a second, more versatile reverb
Old 4th April 2016
  #2496
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jlaws's Avatar
Since uad announced they are working on drivers for thunderbolt in Windows, I was wondering if motu has also started work on tb drivers for Windows for these interfaces?
Old 5th April 2016
  #2497
Here for the gear
 

Exactly! I have been waiting for this since i bought the 1248 as an early adopter.
@mrmiller said about a year and a half ago:

"I can't give even a rough estimate on the Windows driver, unfortunately. Engineering's fickle and that last 10% can end up taking 90% of the time. The most I can say is that it's coming along and only USB will be available at first. We want them out as soon as possible but we want to make sure they're great first!"

This pretty recent thread really means TB on win 10 is happening. Now we desperately need to hear that MOTU is on this boat as well.

Thunderbolt support in Windows 10

Also, i have another question. What is the quality of the summing (groups) in the MOTU-mixer compared to grouping inside DAWs? Reapers audio engine is 64bit i believe. But a lot of subgrouping munch up CPU, and i need every last cycle my CPU can devote to vst´s.

Thanks!

Last edited by and3x; 6th April 2016 at 07:18 PM.. Reason: removed confusing info that were out of context...
Old 5th April 2016
  #2498
tft
Gear Nut
 

an avb ethernet driver for windows would be great also!
ethernet-cards that support avb are available pretty cheap, there's just a driver lacking.
i have read, that something opensource is around, but you would have to compile it yourself.
Old 5th April 2016
  #2499
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by and3x View Post
Also, i have another question. What is the quality of the summing (groups) in the MOTU-mixer compared to grouping inside DAWs? Reapers audio engine is 64bit i believe. But a lot of subgrouping munch up CPU, and i need every last cycle my CPU can give me. Im setting up a hybrid live rig. Therefore i would like to utilize the mixer in the MOTU, but i will not want to compromise on the sonic quality of summing vs Reaper...
For hybrid live use..
I don't know about AVB line, but I'm pretty, sure previous gen. with CuemixFX used 32bit floating point for mixing engine and DSP.
If you want to try, what it can do, you can use your project in Reaper, open Project Settings/Advanced, switch mixing bit depth to 32bit FP and try to spot some audible difference with your real-life material

Michal
Old 6th April 2016
  #2500
Just an update. I've yet to try it with USB because I can't find a long enough cord and removing the MOTU from my rack will cause such a headache. Plus I'm too deep into sessions right now.
That being said, I did another 96k test and realized that when I'd talk in the mic and hear crackle, every single OUTPUT would go bonkers as if they were all receiving the same signal out as I was putting in. Bizarre.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamj31 View Post
I have the same issue. Try running via USB and see what happens.
Old 6th April 2016
  #2501
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
So this seems new. A client came in this morning and they have a session in 96. For some reason on playback, its crackling and popping like crazy. Seems like a clock issue. For reference, I have nothing clocked to it. I had the TOS set for headphone mixes with my central station, but I disconnected that so its just the interface into PT (thru Thunderbolt).
I generally track in 48k. I've done all the typical stuff, restarts, etc. Nothing. I know I need a firmware update, but it should still be working, I don't think the firmware is the culprit.

Any help would be greatly appreciated
This just started a couple of weeks ago for me as well.

I was trying to call MOTU this am.. but I am in Australia and its hard with the time zone difference.. and I tried for over an hour today and couldnt get an answer...

Also, my MOTU16 is racked, and I don't want to have to pull it out to get to the serial number to log a ticket.

Mine has been in use for over a year, thunderbolt. This started not last firmware update but the one before... Not saying thats the issue. just the time frame.

Crackles... reset clock goes away, is intermittent... happens in logic and also watching you tube etc. Some times with you tube, stopping the video and starting again gets it going again.

I just today, switched it over to USB to see if it cures it.... ITs a pain, cause I use the keyboard volume and mute controls..and USB doesn't do that.

Will let you know how I go...

anychance MOTU support can jump in here...?
cheers

Wiz
Old 6th April 2016
  #2502
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz_Oz View Post
This just started a couple of weeks ago for me as well.

I was trying to call MOTU this am.. but I am in Australia and its hard with the time zone difference.. and I tried for over an hour today and couldnt get an answer...

Also, my MOTU16 is racked, and I don't want to have to pull it out to get to the serial number to log a ticket.

Mine has been in use for over a year, thunderbolt. This started not last firmware update but the one before... Not saying thats the issue. just the time frame.

Crackles... reset clock goes away, is intermittent... happens in logic and also watching you tube etc. Some times with you tube, stopping the video and starting again gets it going again.

I just today, switched it over to USB to see if it cures it.... ITs a pain, cause I use the keyboard volume and mute controls..and USB doesn't do that.

Will let you know how I go...

anychance MOTU support can jump in here...?
cheers

Wiz
Just sent you a PM to get a little more info on your setup. Let's get to the bottom of this!
Old 6th April 2016
  #2503
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmyr View Post
Hey everyone, we just posted a new firmware and driver update today for all of our AVB interfaces! Here are some cool changes we've made:

• Added the ability to remotely control preamp settings for any interface on a network.
• Device presets now save and recall AVB stream connections.
• Added a lock button to the web app Routing tab to prevent accidental changes to audio routing.
• Input meters in the web app Mixing tab can now be set to display pre- or post-fader levels.
• Interfaces can now be password-protected.
• Added graphic control for the multi-band EQ and compressor in the web app on-screen mixer.
• Interfaces can now resolve to SMPTE time code (LTC) from any available analog or digital input channel.
• Interfaces can convert SMPTE time code (LTC) to MIDI Time Code (MTC) under OS X.
• Added support for Apple OS X 10.11 entity mode, so you can connect multiple AVB devices to an AVB-equipped Mac.
• Added support for 3rd-party devices that support multiple AVB configurations.
• AVB networking connections no longer reset when the sample rate setting is changed.
• Added support for enterprise-grade switches from Arista and other switch manufacturers.

Head over to MOTU.com/avb for more info and direct download links. Let us know what you think!
Hi Brian,

Does MOTU AVB products have AVNU Certification yet?

Does MOTU's implementation support AES67?

Regards
Enoch

Last edited by KimGitz; 6th April 2016 at 02:51 PM..
Old 6th April 2016
  #2504
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
For hybrid live use..
I don't know about AVB line, but I'm pretty, sure previous gen. with CuemixFX used 32bit floating point for mixing engine and DSP.
If you want to try, what it can do, you can use your project in Reaper, open Project Settings/Advanced, switch mixing bit depth to 32bit FP and try to spot some audible difference with your real-life material

Michal
Yeah, forget the live thingy, i knew right away that was going to be misiterpreted, ill take it out for the sake of clarity.

So, i will perhaps try to see how far the two methods of summing null each other (DAW vs MOTU-mixer). No, i will probably not hear any difference, i was just looking for info from someone who had tinkered with it first hand. Or, rather if there were obvious disadvantages doing summing tracks to groups in the MOTU mixer.

Regarding Thunderbolt support on windows. Anyone else that have more info? One would think that they at least had a beta ready after going at it for almost a year and a half. Focusrite is inviting to beta test thunderbolt drivers for the Clarett range on windows now, and it might not be too long before its oficially released. Also, now that Universal Audio are supposedly doing TB on windows MOTU needs to adress this.

@tft Sure, an Ethernet audio connection for PC would also be nice, but if im not mistaken, it really cant compete with TB in terms of bandwidth and low latency performance.
Old 6th April 2016
  #2505
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by and3x View Post
Yeah, forget the live thingy, i knew right away that was going to be misiterpreted, ill take it out for the sake of clarity.

So, i will perhaps try to see how far the two methods of summing null each other (DAW vs MOTU-mixer). No, i will probably not hear any difference, i was just looking for info from someone who had tinkered with it first hand. Or, rather if there were obvious disadvantages doing summing tracks to groups in the MOTU mixer.
I haven't tried first hand comparison between MOTU AVB mixer and DAW mixer.. But if you're still concerned about it and have both available at one setup.. It should be pretty easy to test how it sums several streams from DAW and record for example Mix Main back to Reaper for comparison with its own summing.
I've done something similar with some other interfaces (EMU, Lynx) and never had any issues with DSP mixer summing for my purposes.
Sorry for my personal overall simplification, but if it sounds right to me and provide some other possible benefits, than I don't care too much if it nulls to -105dBFs or -140dBFs in this context.
But don't take my word for it, really try that with your material.. one of Reaper's advantage for such tests is actually its switchable mixing engine.
And generally, for many years I've used Samplitude before Reaper. Up until ProX was released it has "just" 32fp mix engine. Same with Sequoia. Many mastering engineers use it for their work without any problems with its summing engine. While I can see benefits for double precision processing for instance in recursive EQ filters or more precisely at its feedback calculation, but when summing multiple PCM channels, it isn't necessarily so groundbreaking improvement.. it can measure better in some cases, but if it will sound better is another thing.

As far as usability goes, I can't see problems with it, but it depends on your intended workflow.. Contrary I can imagine, if you have for example iPad level control for stems coming to AVB mixer for live use, it can be great benefit.

Michal
Old 6th April 2016
  #2506
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmyr View Post
Just sent you a PM to get a little more info on your setup. Let's get to the bottom of this!
Thanks so much for doing that ...

Have Replied

cheers

Wiz
Old 6th April 2016
  #2507
tft
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by and3x View Post
@tft Sure, an Ethernet audio connection for PC would also be nice, but if im not mistaken, it really cant compete with TB in terms of bandwidth and low latency performance.
as far as i know, there is just a bit more latency.
the bandwith of a gigabit networkcard should easily suffice, when using pcie.
Old 7th April 2016
  #2508
Lives for gear
 
jlaws's Avatar
Even Rme seems to have Windows thunderbolt drivers already RME Fireface UFX+ I have a feeling motu will make some kind of announcement soon...
Old 7th April 2016
  #2509
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlaws View Post
Even Rme seems to have Windows thunderbolt drivers already RME Fireface UFX+ I have a feeling motu will make some kind of announcement soon...


Not only have RME just announced Thunderbolt support for Windows and Mac with all the bells and whistles, but the damn interface is also USB 3.
Old 7th April 2016
  #2510
Gear Head
 

Hello all, i am having an issue loading the new v1.6 software. I get an error for unknown publisher once file is uploaded.
I tried with 3 different browsers and even tried a second computer. Each time , i get that the certificate is either corrupt or publisher unkown etc....
Any help withyour upgrade ecperience would be helpful.
Thanks.
Ps i also tried disabling firewall and av...still same problem.
Old 7th April 2016
  #2511
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by tft View Post
just as a side note:

i spent quite some time to develop a lemur touchsurface for controling the mixer, but had serious issues with a timelag (up to several seconds for freq sweeps), that i was never able to overcome. support could not replicate it (i don't know how hard they tried, their response was a little slow and not very enthusiastic on this issue), so i stopped that project. after some tests with other software it became clear, that the osc implementation of the avb webapp must be the culprit (maybe only my device, a 112D, idk...). there was no timelag measurable anywhere else in the chain.

so my hope goes for a control-solution from motu.
Any chance you could share that lemur app with us?
Old 8th April 2016
  #2512
Here for the gear
 

KVR: MOTU announces Thunderbolt ASIO Driver For Windows

Thunderbolt drivers for pc is coming. I have a preorder in for a TB 3 to TB 2 adapter for my TB 3 enabled PC.
Old 8th April 2016
  #2513
Here for the gear
 

Wheeee! Really, really happy about this! Pfeeew, i was already looking hard into the new RME as well as the new interfaces from Antelope... Now i can stay put and expand my MOTU AVB range, yes!
Old 8th April 2016
  #2514
Nice! Glad to see audio interfaces making their way over to thunderbolt on windows.
Old 8th April 2016
  #2515
Lives for gear
I'm more interested in AVB drivers for Windows as opposed to Thunderbolt to be honest. Of course i've got a Monitor 8 so Thunderbolt doesn't really do much for me!

But it's progress which is got to be good. AVB on Windows next!
Old 8th April 2016
  #2516
Lives for gear
 
subspace's Avatar
Question: If I want to try AVB on a recent MacBook Pro sans ethernet port, will a Thunderbolt adaptor work:

Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet Adapter - Apple
Old 8th April 2016
  #2517
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave View Post
I'm more interested in AVB drivers for Windows as opposed to Thunderbolt to be honest. Of course i've got a Monitor 8 so Thunderbolt doesn't really do much for me!

But it's progress which is got to be good. AVB on Windows next!
That's what I am looking for as I have an Ultralite AVB.
Nice to see MOTU working hard to support their products!
Old 8th April 2016
  #2518
Lives for gear
 
jlaws's Avatar
Any chance I could opt into a beta Windows thunderbolt driver? I like to live on the bleeding edge...
Old 8th April 2016
  #2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy View Post
That's what I am looking for as I have an Ultralite AVB.
Nice to see MOTU working hard to support their products!
Count me in!
However I think AVB support must come from Microsoft first.
Old 8th April 2016
  #2520
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by noou View Post
Count me in!
However I think AVB support must come from Microsoft first.
Yep!
I'm just happy that when I asked MOTU last year about their commitment to the Windows platform they did assure me it is a top priority and not an afterthought.

And that is exactly what is coming to pass.

For me, the Ultralite AVB has been rock solid and the stupid questions (I'm new to MOTU land) I had for support were answered quickly and accurately so I'm a happy clam !
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