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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 14th March 2016
  #2461
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emrr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
Doug, are you seeing them drift or just a pain to sync them up?
They don't drift that I've noticed, they just aren't designed with any thought towards unity throughput.
Old 14th March 2016
  #2462
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
They don't drift that I've noticed, they just aren't designed with any thought towards unity throughput.
Jeez I hope they tackle that in the next firmware update
Old 16th March 2016
  #2463
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
Wiz, as I've said before, you can't get unity out of any of these units, and I measure the 16A and Monitor 8 as being slightly different in that regard too. MOTU should really program a unit specific 'unity loop' setting for those who need it.

16A: balanced loop test, output has to be set 0 and input has to be set +2 to get +0.26dBr. FS output will thus clip input at +2 input setting, but not at +1, giving -0.74dBr loop.

Monitor 8 measures nothing same as 16A, but similar. Worse, outputs 1-8, the aux out, and the main out all give slightly different results.


Then consider an analog mix or summing output scenario. If you use several different AVB line units for a large analog console mix session or even an analog summing unit, and at any point change routings such that a 16A output becomes a Monitor 8 output, or vice versa, any workstation volume moves will be altered in the mix. It becomes important to notate what path any track followed for DA conversion, and also note the measured variance from unity, otherwise any future mix recall with other units will be balanced differently.
thanks Doug

cheers

Wiz
Old 17th March 2016
  #2464
Here for the gear
 

Motu 828 MK3 hybrid bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
Also half the quality of the Orion.

Dont kid yourself, MOTU has not the best converters nor drivers.
So I just got a killer deal on a Motu 828 mk3 hybrid. $360 Bc guitar center doesn't know how to label their used gear. Ha. Anyways I keep reading bad things about Motu. Is this Bc these people are using the interface with a PC? Does anyone have experience with this interface and simple question..the main outs are xlr. Should I just use regular xlr mic cables to my monitors or do I need lower impedance? Anyways curious what ya think about Motu.
Old 17th March 2016
  #2465
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogRyan View Post
So I just got a killer deal on a Motu 828 mk3 hybrid. $360 Bc guitar center doesn't know how to label their used gear. Ha. Anyways I keep reading bad things about Motu. Is this Bc these people are using the interface with a PC? Does anyone have experience with this interface and simple question..the main outs are xlr. Should I just use regular xlr mic cables to my monitors or do I need lower impedance? Anyways curious what ya think about Motu.
I've heard and quite frankly had the same impression for years in fact regarding MOTU and the PC. My opinion was while PC was supported, it was kind of half hearted support.

So late last year I took a chance on the MOTU Ultralite AVB and I couldn't be more satisfied with the results. The RTL at 44k 64 samples is 4.9ms via Reaper or Studio One and about 5.1ms as measured by Oblique. More importantly at least in my setup, it's actually usable and not unstable like some other interfaces that can generate a great number but collapse under load.

Also MOTU support has been excellent in answering my "noob to MOTU" questions.
MOTU has an active presence on GS as well which IMHO is a big factor.

My current impression is that they are very serious about the PC platform and like I said, I have no complaints at all.

To put into perspective if someone asked me 10 years ago about MOTU and PC I would have answered something like "MOTU is a Mac thing".

That has changed.
Old 18th March 2016
  #2466
Gear Nut
 
wilkinsi's Avatar
In order to access the 112D via the web UI on my new MacBook Pro 13", I had an old USB hub, so the hub > USB > Mac and ethernet to the 112D. Mac > TB > 112D. TB hubs aren't cheap!

MachFive does not crash on this Mac, unlike my Lenovo. That isn't to say the Mac is perfect, far from it.
Old 18th March 2016
  #2467
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy View Post
I've heard and quite frankly had the same impression for years in fact regarding MOTU and the PC. My opinion was while PC was supported, it was kind of half hearted support.

So late last year I took a chance on the MOTU Ultralite AVB and I couldn't be more satisfied with the results. The RTL at 44k 64 samples is 4.9ms via Reaper or Studio One and about 5.1ms as measured by Oblique. More importantly at least in my setup, it's actually usable and not unstable like some other interfaces that can generate a great number but collapse under load.

Also MOTU support has been excellent in answering my "noob to MOTU" questions.
MOTU has an active presence on GS as well which IMHO is a big factor.

My current impression is that they are very serious about the PC platform and like I said, I have no complaints at all.

To put into perspective if someone asked me 10 years ago about MOTU and PC I would have answered something like "MOTU is a Mac thing".

That has changed.

I have to echo this. I'm on Windows (7 64bit) and my Monitor 8 so far has been rock solid, but I did always used to associate Motu with the Mac somehow.

Anyway, no regrets on taking a chance with the Motu AVB, it has transformed our band practices, and we are all looking forward to recording our new EP in the next month.
Old 18th March 2016
  #2468
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy View Post
So late last year I took a chance on the MOTU Ultralite AVB and I couldn't be more satisfied with the results. The RTL at 44k 64 samples is 4.9ms via Reaper or Studio One and about 5.1ms as measured by Oblique. More importantly at least in my setup, it's actually usable and not unstable like some other interfaces that can generate a great number but collapse under load.

Also MOTU support has been excellent in answering my "noob to MOTU" questions.
MOTU has an active presence on GS as well which IMHO is a big factor.

My current impression is that they are very serious about the PC platform and like I said, I have no complaints at all.

To put into perspective if someone asked me 10 years ago about MOTU and PC I would have answered something like "MOTU is a Mac thing".

That has changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave View Post
I have to echo this. I'm on Windows (7 64bit) and my Monitor 8 so far has been rock solid, but I did always used to associate Motu with the Mac somehow.

Anyway, no regrets on taking a chance with the Motu AVB, it has transformed our band practices, and we are all looking forward to recording our new EP in the next month.
Awesome, guys! I'm psyched that the AVB interfaces are serving you well. This is what we like to hear!

@loopy: Always happy to answer any questions and chime in here whenever possible.
Old 18th March 2016
  #2469
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
Actually, the Windows driver already supports multiple ASIO clients. Is this not working for you?



In theory, it would be possible with a firmware update as we did with TOSlink support for Optical A. That said, we're unable to add the option to Optical B as of now for purely technical software reasons.
Hey @mrmiller!
Sorry I disappeared from the thread for a while and noticed it is now on to many many many pages haha.
Still slightly curious about this. Pretty much what I'm wondering is not if I can simultaneously run ADAT A and B as TOSlink, but if I could one day be able to choose between the two. I'd rather my ADAT B run the TOSlink, so when I get another 8ch ADAT converter to strap to the MOTU, I can run them in sequence instead of the space between the two. IE MOTU 1-16, ADAT A 1-8, ADAT B TOS.

Thanks! Still absolutely LOVING my 16a
Old 18th March 2016
  #2470
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
Hey @mrmiller!
Sorry I disappeared from the thread for a while and noticed it is now on to many many many pages haha.
Still slightly curious about this. Pretty much what I'm wondering is not if I can simultaneously run ADAT A and B as TOSlink, but if I could one day be able to choose between the two. I'd rather my ADAT B run the TOSlink, so when I get another 8ch ADAT converter to strap to the MOTU, I can run them in sequence instead of the space between the two. IE MOTU 1-16, ADAT A 1-8, ADAT B TOS.

Thanks! Still absolutely LOVING my 16a
Hmmm... We'll definitely think about a solution to this, but the mechanics of it are tricky right now. It's difficult (if not impossible) on the hardware to allow port B to be TOSLink and port A to be ADAT.

But I'm pumped that you're loving the 16A!
Old 18th March 2016
  #2471
I wonder if someone who owns a 16A could check this for me please.

Set up a test tone going out your main outs (1 and 2) say -10dBFs.

Then using the Output Trim in the Control App reduce the output volume to zero , and then look at the meters on the front of the 16A.. mine don't change when the trim is adjusted.. they follow the signal level coming out of the DAW.

cheers

Wiz
Old 19th March 2016
  #2472
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz_Oz View Post
I wonder if someone who owns a 16A could check this for me please.

Set up a test tone going out your main outs (1 and 2) say -10dBFs.

Then using the Output Trim in the Control App reduce the output volume to zero , and then look at the meters on the front of the 16A.. mine don't change when the trim is adjusted.. they follow the signal level coming out of the DAW.

cheers

Wiz
This sounds like the preferred behavior to me. Also as far as attenuating signals goes, the best place to do it is at the D/A converter, from what I understand, the ESS Sabre converters do attenuation in 32bit space for minimal degradation of the audio.

Overall I prefer the MOTU showing full daw levels, instead of showing a level post-trim
Old 19th March 2016
  #2473
Quote:
Originally Posted by magoostus View Post
This sounds like the preferred behavior to me. Also as far as attenuating signals goes, the best place to do it is at the D/A converter, from what I understand, the ESS Sabre converters do attenuation in 32bit space for minimal degradation of the audio.

Overall I prefer the MOTU showing full daw levels, instead of showing a level post-trim
I can see your point.. but..I would prefer the meters represent actual level, if what you are describing is the case.. as its a software trim, then the meters should be capable... perhaps the option of either...


There is a deeper reason why I am asking this, so I would love an answer from MOTU.. or at least confirmation from someone with the unit.


cheers

Wiz
Old 19th March 2016
  #2474
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz_Oz View Post
I can see your point.. but..I would prefer the meters represent actual level, if what you are describing is the case.. as its a software trim, then the meters should be capable... perhaps the option of either...


There is a deeper reason why I am asking this, so I would love an answer from MOTU.. or at least confirmation from someone with the unit.


cheers

Wiz
I betcha the brilliant minds at MOTU could figure something out, but if you want ACTUAL LEVELS to be metered, then the meters *NEED* to be relabeled in dbu instead of 0 to -42 dbfs as dbfs is only actual level in the digital domain, whereas dbu is actual level in the analog domain

Last edited by magoostus; 19th March 2016 at 02:43 AM.. Reason: dbu dbfs
Old 23rd March 2016
  #2475
Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmyr View Post
Awesome, guys! I'm psyched that the AVB interfaces are serving you well. This is what we like to hear!

@loopy: Always happy to answer any questions and chime in here whenever possible.
I'm glad that the Ultralite AVB works for those users. However my experience so far has been really frustrating, as I described here
Other USB interfaces (MOTU Audio Express, RME UCX) work just fine on my computer.
Old 23rd March 2016
  #2476
So this seems new. A client came in this morning and they have a session in 96. For some reason on playback, its crackling and popping like crazy. Seems like a clock issue. For reference, I have nothing clocked to it. I had the TOS set for headphone mixes with my central station, but I disconnected that so its just the interface into PT (thru Thunderbolt).
I generally track in 48k. I've done all the typical stuff, restarts, etc. Nothing. I know I need a firmware update, but it should still be working, I don't think the firmware is the culprit.

Any help would be greatly appreciated
Old 23rd March 2016
  #2477
Here for the gear
Hey everyone, we just posted a new firmware and driver update today for all of our AVB interfaces! Here are some cool changes we've made:

• Added the ability to remotely control preamp settings for any interface on a network.
• Device presets now save and recall AVB stream connections.
• Added a lock button to the web app Routing tab to prevent accidental changes to audio routing.
• Input meters in the web app Mixing tab can now be set to display pre- or post-fader levels.
• Interfaces can now be password-protected.
• Added graphic control for the multi-band EQ and compressor in the web app on-screen mixer.
• Interfaces can now resolve to SMPTE time code (LTC) from any available analog or digital input channel.
• Interfaces can convert SMPTE time code (LTC) to MIDI Time Code (MTC) under OS X.
• Added support for Apple OS X 10.11 entity mode, so you can connect multiple AVB devices to an AVB-equipped Mac.
• Added support for 3rd-party devices that support multiple AVB configurations.
• AVB networking connections no longer reset when the sample rate setting is changed.
• Added support for enterprise-grade switches from Arista and other switch manufacturers.

Head over to MOTU.com/avb for more info and direct download links. Let us know what you think!
Old 23rd March 2016
  #2478
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmyr View Post
Hey everyone, we just posted a new firmware and driver update today for all of our AVB interfaces! Here are some cool changes we've made:

• Added the ability to remotely control preamp settings for any interface on a network.
• Device presets now save and recall AVB stream connections.
• Added a lock button to the web app Routing tab to prevent accidental changes to audio routing.
• Input meters in the web app Mixing tab can now be set to display pre- or post-fader levels.
• Interfaces can now be password-protected.
• Added graphic control for the multi-band EQ and compressor in the web app on-screen mixer.
• Interfaces can now resolve to SMPTE time code (LTC) from any available analog or digital input channel.
• Interfaces can convert SMPTE time code (LTC) to MIDI Time Code (MTC) under OS X.
• Added support for Apple OS X 10.11 entity mode, so you can connect multiple AVB devices to an AVB-equipped Mac.
• Added support for 3rd-party devices that support multiple AVB configurations.
• AVB networking connections no longer reset when the sample rate setting is changed.
• Added support for enterprise-grade switches from Arista and other switch manufacturers.

Head over to MOTU.com/avb for more info and direct download links. Let us know what you think!
Looks like a nice set of updates! For me locking the routing, meters pre/post and password protection are great additions.
Old 24th March 2016
  #2479
Gear Nut
 

Cool Omg yes!!

omg, im so excited!!!

I just installed the firmware update!!

I'm Loving the EQ graph, makes it so much easier to shape the sound, only 1 minor nitpick. when I'm running the motu at 88.2khz or 96khz and make a bell EQ filter and move its frequency up, the graph shows that the bell get all cramped like it would at 44.1khz, and 48khz. but at 96khz, i'd assume the bell curve wouldnt get all cramped like it shows in the graph.

i've attached photos to show what i'm talking about



Quote:
Originally Posted by bmyr View Post
Hey everyone, we just posted a new firmware and driver update today for all of our AVB interfaces! Here are some cool changes we've made:

• Added the ability to remotely control preamp settings for any interface on a network.
• Device presets now save and recall AVB stream connections.
• Added a lock button to the web app Routing tab to prevent accidental changes to audio routing.
• Input meters in the web app Mixing tab can now be set to display pre- or post-fader levels.
• Interfaces can now be password-protected.
• Added graphic control for the multi-band EQ and compressor in the web app on-screen mixer.
• Interfaces can now resolve to SMPTE time code (LTC) from any available analog or digital input channel.
• Interfaces can convert SMPTE time code (LTC) to MIDI Time Code (MTC) under OS X.
• Added support for Apple OS X 10.11 entity mode, so you can connect multiple AVB devices to an AVB-equipped Mac.
• Added support for 3rd-party devices that support multiple AVB configurations.
• AVB networking connections no longer reset when the sample rate setting is changed.
• Added support for enterprise-grade switches from Arista and other switch manufacturers.

Head over to MOTU.com/avb for more info and direct download links. Let us know what you think!
Attached Thumbnails
MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface-screen-shot-2016-03-23-8.30.07-pm.png   MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface-screen-shot-2016-03-23-8.30.20-pm.png   MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface-screen-shot-2016-03-23-8.30.31-pm.png   MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface-screen-shot-2016-03-23-8.30.41-pm.png   MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface-screen-shot-2016-03-23-8.30.54-pm.png  

Old 24th March 2016
  #2480
what is the general verdict on these - are they meeting expectations? Im considering a 16a....
Old 24th March 2016
  #2481
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
what is the general verdict on these - are they meeting expectations? Im considering a 16a....
Well I got the Monitor 8, and so far it's exceeding all my expectations on Windows 7 64bit.

I was looking for an interface upgrade (2x from Edirol UA1000 - 20x20) that could provide the following functions:-
  • near zero latency direct monitoring
  • ability to track my band with enough outputs / DSP to drive 4 custom cue mixes
  • Improved A/D and D/A
  • As good or better stability / drivers
  • Future proofing

So far it's met all of these, with some great improvements as I was able to sell off a bunch of stuff I hadn't even considered it could replace;-

+ Presonus Central Station (mono and talkback functions still a bit of a loss, but i've got workarounds)
+ Mytek Stereo 96 DAC - did some tests and very happy with DAC performance, would even go so far as to say it was at least as good as the Mytek, maybe better.
+ Behringer HA8000 distribution amp. Was hopeful I'd get rid of this, the headphone amps on the Monitor 8 are REALLY good. Great sense of space.


It integrates beautifully into my setup:-
8 Analog In - mostly DI guitars, fx and synths.
UA-4710D Adat Out - 4 UA preamps, API A2D preamps, and 2x Edirol UA1000 (A) preamps
Edirol UA1000 (B) Adat Out - 3 mic pres, 1 HiZ di and 4 analog ins.

So I can use the full 24x16, all wired up to a Samson S-Patch for flexibility.

I had been looking at the Antelope Zed / Orion, and I'm sure they would have been good, but I couldn't be happier with the Motu.

it's expandable as well with AVB so I could always add a 16A etc...

Old 24th March 2016
  #2482
Lives for gear
 
adamj31's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
So this seems new. A client came in this morning and they have a session in 96. For some reason on playback, its crackling and popping like crazy. Seems like a clock issue. For reference, I have nothing clocked to it. I had the TOS set for headphone mixes with my central station, but I disconnected that so its just the interface into PT (thru Thunderbolt).
I generally track in 48k. I've done all the typical stuff, restarts, etc. Nothing. I know I need a firmware update, but it should still be working, I don't think the firmware is the culprit.

Any help would be greatly appreciated
I have the same issue. Try running via USB and see what happens.
Old 24th March 2016
  #2483
The new EQ & Comp graph make the DSP much more useful for me in the heat of a tracking session - very nice update
Old 25th March 2016
  #2484
Gear Nut
 
wilkinsi's Avatar
Love the EQ and compressor graphs too. Shame this update doesn't fix the grey screen of death when connected via thunderbolt instead of using ethernet and TB simultaneously and typing the IP address into the web browser.
Old 25th March 2016
  #2485
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmyr View Post
Hey everyone, we just posted a new firmware and driver update today for all of our AVB interfaces! Here are some cool changes we've made:

• Added the ability to remotely control preamp settings for any interface on a network.
• Device presets now save and recall AVB stream connections.
• Added a lock button to the web app Routing tab to prevent accidental changes to audio routing.
• Input meters in the web app Mixing tab can now be set to display pre- or post-fader levels.
• Interfaces can now be password-protected.
• Added graphic control for the multi-band EQ and compressor in the web app on-screen mixer.
• Interfaces can now resolve to SMPTE time code (LTC) from any available analog or digital input channel.
• Interfaces can convert SMPTE time code (LTC) to MIDI Time Code (MTC) under OS X.
• Added support for Apple OS X 10.11 entity mode, so you can connect multiple AVB devices to an AVB-equipped Mac.
• Added support for 3rd-party devices that support multiple AVB configurations.
• AVB networking connections no longer reset when the sample rate setting is changed.
• Added support for enterprise-grade switches from Arista and other switch manufacturers.

Head over to MOTU.com/avb for more info and direct download links. Let us know what you think!
Is there information on the AVB performance when using your AVB devices and supported Macs and 3rd party devices such as the Avid S3?

What is the analogue-analogue rountrip latency through the DAW at X1, X2, and X4 sample rates with a 32samples buffer?
What is the corresponding CPU and RAM impact if any?
How does using 3rd party AVB devices affect the above, example when using the Avid S3?
Is there a list of supported 3rd party AVB devices?

I like the password protection. Is there provisions for having different users permitted different access?
For example a musician can be granted access to only individual monitor mixes.

Most Windows PCs don't have AVB supported NICs, does Thunderbolt on Windows support AVB? Will a Thunderbolt to Ethernet adapter provide AVB?

Regards
Enoch
Old 25th March 2016
  #2486
Lives for gear
 
loopy's Avatar
 

Good questions KimGitz! I'm interested in some of those items as well.
Old 25th March 2016
  #2487
Quote:
Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave View Post
Well I got the Monitor 8, and so far it's exceeding all my expectations on Windows 7 64bit.

I was looking for an interface upgrade (2x from Edirol UA1000 - 20x20) that could provide the following functions:-
  • near zero latency direct monitoring
  • ability to track my band with enough outputs / DSP to drive 4 custom cue mixes
  • Improved A/D and D/A
  • As good or better stability / drivers
  • Future proofing

So far it's met all of these, with some great improvements as I was able to sell off a bunch of stuff I hadn't even considered it could replace;-

+ Presonus Central Station (mono and talkback functions still a bit of a loss, but i've got workarounds)
+ Mytek Stereo 96 DAC - did some tests and very happy with DAC performance, would even go so far as to say it was at least as good as the Mytek, maybe better.
+ Behringer HA8000 distribution amp. Was hopeful I'd get rid of this, the headphone amps on the Monitor 8 are REALLY good. Great sense of space.


It integrates beautifully into my setup:-
8 Analog In - mostly DI guitars, fx and synths.
UA-4710D Adat Out - 4 UA preamps, API A2D preamps, and 2x Edirol UA1000 (A) preamps
Edirol UA1000 (B) Adat Out - 3 mic pres, 1 HiZ di and 4 analog ins.

So I can use the full 24x16, all wired up to a Samson S-Patch for flexibility.

I had been looking at the Antelope Zed / Orion, and I'm sure they would have been good, but I couldn't be happier with the Motu.

it's expandable as well with AVB so I could always add a 16A etc...

thanks thats a very helpful response...
Old 26th March 2016
  #2488
Lives for gear
 
emrr's Avatar
Don't know if it's a bug, or purposeful, but the new input meter pre option has an infinite hold function that only clears by changing the selected AVB window. Gives the appearance of a feedback loop or resonance at a frequency outside of the hearing range.
Old 29th March 2016
  #2489
Gear Nut
 
wilkinsi's Avatar
MOTU sent me an updated driver, and my problem is now fixed.
Old 30th March 2016
  #2490
tft
Gear Nut
 

the new additions to the avb mixer (eq graph, comp graph) are a huge step forward for editing the mixer on touch surfaces. thanks for that!
while playing with these in the motu discovery app on ipad, i found a limitation of the app could be changed now with the new functionality, to make the usage more elegant:
it is only possible to make one effect visible in the app (eq or hpf or comp or gate or ...).
could you change that, so multiple choices are possible? especially with the new graphs this would save a lot of switching action. i know i can use a browser, but the app is practical.

and more general, some suggestions:
- why is the hpf filter not incorporated in the eq graph? it would make much sense.
- in the comp graph there is no way to dial in the outputgain, like with thresh and ratio.
especially with the way the comp works (pushing up gain), it would be great to have this directly available (not only via numeric input as it is now) for balancing levels. also the graph could make the effect of the outputgain visible, to see what it is actually happening levelwise.
- i'd like to have a graph for the gate also, actually for all effects in the mixer. or better make a dedicated edit-page for single channels (with a fast way to switch between channels), where all the effects for the channel are laid out with a convenient graphical editscreen, for fast and precise editing on touch surfaces.
the webapp of the soundcraft ui-mixers (ui12, ui16) are a good example of a well implemented way of controling a digital mixer on tablets.

the mixer is such a great and good sounding tool of the avb-line, that i am scratching my head, why things are not already implemented for more convenient and fluid touchcontrol.
i hope for more in this direction.
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