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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 27th January 2016
  #2281
Here for the gear
 

"Could not communicate with device..."
I bought a new laptop, a HP ProBook 650 Core i7, and tested it thoroughly in my studio and when I was Confident it would not give me any trouble I used it with my AVB-gear in a recording session at a live concert.
Not any time has it failed! I haven´t even looked at the settings. Just installed the AVB-driver and my recording app (Adobe Audition). In the studio I started several recording sessions and left it for almost two hours without trouble.
In the laptop I only use the USB-Cable and to the AVB-switch I connect one Stage-B16, one 8M and a wireless access Point. The laptop is connected to the 8M.
When i got the time i will connect it to my studio network with internet access and try.
Old 27th January 2016
  #2282
Lives for gear
 
ModularOverkill's Avatar
 

I haven't fired up my system in a couple months (studio rewiring) so haven't been able to test this -- but is it possible to take a stereo channel and sum it to mono inside the mixer itself fairly simply? I have a decide that will either output mono (L) or stereo depending on the patch, and I'd like to just force it to mono all the time (which it does not support) in my MOTU setup irrespective of number of input channels.
Old 27th January 2016
  #2283
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ModularOverkill View Post
I haven't fired up my system in a couple months (studio rewiring) so haven't been able to test this -- but is it possible to take a stereo channel and sum it to mono inside the mixer itself fairly simply? I have a decide that will either output mono (L) or stereo depending on the patch, and I'd like to just force it to mono all the time (which it does not support) in my MOTU setup irrespective of number of input channels.

Like in a normal analog mixer: patch the L+R of the device to 2 mono channels, sum them to a bus, main mix, aux or whatever with both panned center, so it would be all the time a mono signal.
Old 30th January 2016
  #2284
Lives for gear
 

I'm really interested in a 16A, question though… I have an old 2010 Mac Pro (no Thunderbolt), and it looks like this computer does not support AVB. I'm pretty sure I will want to add a dedicated USB card to this computer, since like most folks I have entirely too many dongles and gadgets and MIDI over USB keyboards…

No issues with using a USB 3.0 card like this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Sonnet-Technol.../dp/B00GRGCV2G

Last edited by kslight; 30th January 2016 at 07:35 PM..
Old 30th January 2016
  #2285
Gear Nut
 

Just buy a 7-10 port USB 2.0 or 3.0 hub and put all of your random devices on that, and plug the motu directly into the mac pro. devices on the hub CANT steal bandwidth from the motu in this way

the motu interfaces are usb 2.0, but can still run 128 channels (64in/64out) over usb 2.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight View Post
I'm really interested in a 16A, question though… I have an old 2010 Mac Pro (no Thunderbolt), and it looks like this computer does not support AVB. I'm pretty sure I will want to add a dedicated USB card to this computer, since like most folks I have entirely too many dongles and gadgets and MIDI over USB keyboards…

No issues with using a USB 3.0 card like this one?

Robot Check

Last edited by magoostus; 30th January 2016 at 08:24 PM.. Reason: usb 2.0 really is more than enough sometimes
Old 30th January 2016
  #2286
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by magoostus View Post
Just buy a 7-10 port USB 2.0 or 3.0 hub and put all of your random devices on that, and plug the motu directly into the mac pro. devices on the hub CANT steal bandwidth from the motu in this way

the motu interfaces are usb 2.0, but can still run 128 channels (64in/64out) over usb 2.0
Thanks though to clarify how much junk I have, I currently have 2 hubs full of stuff, plus an external hard drive (used as a Time Machine drive, not for audio) that plugs directly into the computer. Maybe the Motu would be fine, but for example I always had problems running a firewire external hard drive and a firewire audio interface at the same time, until I bought a dedicated firewire card for my computer. So I assumed that USB would have issues too?

Since I will have a USB audio card and USB external hard drives (and all kinds of insignificant USB junk like dongles, MIDI over USB, wireless keyboard/mice, etc) it seemed like I would be asking for trouble.

Or am I mistaken?
Old 30th January 2016
  #2287
Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight View Post
I'm really interested in a 16A, question though… I have an old 2010 Mac Pro (no Thunderbolt), and it looks like this computer does not support AVB. I'm pretty sure I will want to add a dedicated USB card to this computer, since like most folks I have entirely too many dongles and gadgets and MIDI over USB keyboards…

No issues with using a USB 3.0 card like this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Sonnet-Technol.../dp/B00GRGCV2G
The Thunderbolt criterion is the simplest way to tell if a Mac supports AVB. However, all you really need is an AVB-capable Ethernet NIC and OS X 10.10 or higher. Some users have done exactly that with their older Mac Pros and posted their success stories on this thread. Do note that the latency over AVB can be higher than over USB and certainly over Thunderbolt.

A USB card should work as well assuming it works with the computer itself, but as magoostus noted, the interfaces are USB2. Plugging into a USB3 port won't give you any extra bandwidth.
Old 30th January 2016
  #2288
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
The Thunderbolt criterion is the simplest way to tell if a Mac supports AVB. However, all you really need is an AVB-capable Ethernet NIC and OS X 10.10 or higher. Some users have done exactly that with their older Mac Pros and posted their success stories on this thread. Do note that the latency over AVB can be higher than over USB and certainly over Thunderbolt.

A USB card should work as well assuming it works with the computer itself, but as magoostus noted, the interfaces are USB2. Plugging into a USB3 port won't give you any extra bandwidth.
I didn't realize that AVB would have higher latency than USB, but I assumed worse than Thunderbolt…though I have zero thunderbolt ports so that is a non-consideration. USB it is then on this computer.

Right, I assumed that using a USB3 port would not pose any improvements, but I had heard that some USB2 audio products do not work well plugged into a USB3 for one reason or another.

Thanks
Old 30th January 2016
  #2289
Gear Nut
 

Brilliant observation. If you truely ARE having devices fight over bandwidth as it is, then the pcie card is probably the best solution.

You can view your usb tree and see if there is a possibility of conflict. I don't use my SD card reader in my imac much so I placed my 16A on that USB bus

I remember the days of firewire and trying to make sure only Texas Instrument controller chips were used for the best audio stability, I have no experience with that same type of behavior from USB

Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight View Post
Thanks though to clarify how much junk I have, I currently have 2 hubs full of stuff, plus an external hard drive (used as a Time Machine drive, not for audio) that plugs directly into the computer. Maybe the Motu would be fine, but for example I always had problems running a firewire external hard drive and a firewire audio interface at the same time, until I bought a dedicated firewire card for my computer. So I assumed that USB would have issues too?

Since I will have a USB audio card and USB external hard drives (and all kinds of insignificant USB junk like dongles, MIDI over USB, wireless keyboard/mice, etc) it seemed like I would be asking for trouble.

Or am I mistaken?
Attached Thumbnails
MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface-screen-shot-2016-01-30-4.01.08-pm.png   MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface-screen-shot-2016-01-30-4.09.31-pm.png  
Old 31st January 2016
  #2290
Lives for gear
 
Hokut's Avatar
 

Need to get an interface, been waiting so far, looking at options and finally narrowed it down to the 16As or another option.

How is USB connection working for you guys?

I have a 2013 MBP, but I am thinking to run one or more 16As on my older Early 2008 MAC Pro (Mac Pro 3.1) because that's where I have my kit and multi-screen setup.
Probably connect Two 16As to each other via Cat5, then connect one of the 16A to the MAC Pro. Possibly running 32 I/O over USB 2 at 96Khz

Anyone running these MOTU AVBs on a 2008 Mac Pro over USB?
I saw someone here posted about audio glitches at 88.2Khz over USB, common driver problem currently or specific to that setup?

Thanks
Old 31st January 2016
  #2291
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Funny this "AVB / USB on older Macs" subject has come up again, 'cause I'm now perilously close to finishing paying off my lay-buy for 2 x 24Ai and 1 x 16A to be run on a 2012 Mac Pro.

As the time draws nearer for the final payment to be made I find myself getting the jitters concerning the USB route once again. It's either:

1) Sell a bunch of synths and run 64 I/O over USB at 44.1kHz.

or

2) Keep all my synths, buy an extra 24Ai and run 88 I/O over ethernet AVB (using an AVB-capable PCI card) at 96kHz.

I keep asking myself, "Will the extra stability, higher channel count and sample rate prove more important in the real world than the 5ms or so additional latency and increased CPU load that the AVB connection would incur over a USB one?".

Over and over, day and night, this question repeats itself ad nauseum. I've avoided asking this 'til now because I feel bad that I chewed up plenty of Mr. Miller's time 6 months ago with a barrage of USB-connection-related questions; I was literally paranoid of glitches, clicks, pops and "loss of device / connection" issues... and to be honest I still am. It's a heck of an investment, this, and it's already been 18 months in the money-saving process.

As always, I'm extremely grateful for any input, musings, reassurances and what have you that anyone might choose to share. Thank you!
Nicky
Old 31st January 2016
  #2292
Lives for gear
 

Stage-B16

can I use the Stage-B16 only as input for Mics or can I also use them (maybe with pad engaged) in my studio as high quality line inputs for my outboard mic amps ?

Last edited by musicsound-2; 31st January 2016 at 05:50 PM..
Old 31st January 2016
  #2293
Lives for gear
 

Yeah I had to get a specific firewire card for my Mac and my expresscard equipped laptop…. All for nothing these days I guess, because firewire has essentially been forgotten. I'm not ever going to buy a new Mac Pro though unless Apple gets their heads out of their rear and makes a proper tower, however. If this interface works out well, I'd probably just shell out for a hex or 12 core 2012 Mac Pro to replace my quad.


When I am on my old Mac Pro I typically won't require tons of simultaneous ins (not usually more than 8) and outs over USB, but I do run most non-film sessions at 96k. However, I have a laptop (Thunderbolt equipped, thankfully) that will go on the road from me, time to time, which will be nice to have all the ins for transferring from 24 track tape or doing drums, concerts, etc.

Doing 2 passes of 12 inputs is acceptable, if annoying, I don't think that I did enough of this in the last 5-6 years (with my current setup) to pay for 12 extra ins that I almost never use.


I've been thinking between either the 16a or the 1248. On the one hand, it would be nice to have 4 clean pres to choose instead of my existing pres. On the other hand, its annoying that the 1248 does not use combo inputs for those pres (as opposed to the 8m!). It would be a rare day that I use more than one mic preamp at a time at home (mostly just recording synths, routing tracks in and out of outboard gear, or transferring off of my tape machines), but I have to assume these would be much cleaner than my Urei 7510Bs. Its also annoying that there is no DIN MIDI I/O on these interfaces, except for the Stage 16 (???) and Ultralite…


On to my questions…how many simultaneous analog ins do you really have on the 1248? Do you have to choose between using the 4 mic pres or the first 4 analog ins, or do you effectively get 12 simultaneous ins? Plus 2 DI ins? So 14 analog ins? Any dealers offering exceptionally good incentives to buy right now?
Old 31st January 2016
  #2294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
...
1) Sell a bunch of synths and run 64 I/O over USB at 44.1kHz.

or

2) Keep all my synths, buy an extra 24Ai and run 88 I/O over ethernet AVB (using an AVB-capable PCI card) at 96kHz......
What about a patch bay (or console) for your synths?

I have extra I/Os - running two 16As into a 24 channel console and planned on getting a patch bay. With the extra I/Os, I'm finding I don't need one (yet!). I'm routing right from the 16As into certain pieces of outboard (hybrid mixing). Naming the outputs and having it come up in DP is awesome.
Old 1st February 2016
  #2295
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight View Post
On to my questions…how many simultaneous analog ins do you really have on the 1248? Do you have to choose between using the 4 mic pres or the first 4 analog ins, or do you effectively get 12 simultaneous ins? Plus 2 DI ins? So 14 analog ins? Any dealers offering exceptionally good incentives to buy right now?
You get 14 analog ins and almost endless routing options.

I'm using the 1248 since december with usb on a 2010 macbook pro and absolutely love it. It replaced my old 8pre to get rid of the firewire crap, as I planned to order a new computer... Now hoping that Motu will implement thunderbolt drivers for windows which would be a massive upgrade.
Old 1st February 2016
  #2296
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobipl View Post
You get 14 analog ins and almost endless routing options.

I'm using the 1248 since december with usb on a 2010 macbook pro and absolutely love it. It replaced my old 8pre to get rid of the firewire crap, as I planned to order a new computer... Now hoping that Motu will implement thunderbolt drivers for windows which would be a massive upgrade.
Cool thanks. Now I need to find some moneys!
Old 1st February 2016
  #2297
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robby in WA View Post
What about a patch bay (or console) for your synths?

I have extra I/Os - running two 16As into a 24 channel console and planned on getting a patch bay. With the extra I/Os, I'm finding I don't need one (yet!). I'm routing right from the 16As into certain pieces of outboard (hybrid mixing). Naming the outputs and having it come up in DP is awesome.
Thank you, Robby.

Yeah mate, been there. The thing is, I want all synth outs available all the time should I unmute them in DP; I don't want to futz around with a PB (getting rid of it). This'll help with project recall and setup as well as allow for quick recording as all "tracks" will be in input-monitoring mode 'till I hit the red button. Either that or I'll just have to monitor through the AVB mixers if MOTU doesn't give us Direct Hardware Playthru™ in DP for AVB as it did for the AudioWire stuff.

I appreciate your question; thanks again, mate.
Old 1st February 2016
  #2298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Thank you, Robby.

Yeah mate, been there. The thing is, I want all synth outs available all the time should I unmute them in DP; I don't want to futz around with a PB (getting rid of it). This'll help with project recall and setup as well as allow for quick recording as all "tracks" will be in input-monitoring mode 'till I hit the red button. Either that or I'll just have to monitor through the AVB mixers if MOTU doesn't give us Direct Hardware Playthru™ in DP for AVB as it did for the AudioWire stuff.

I appreciate your question; thanks again, mate.
I think I mentioned this before but if you're set on USB and uncomfortable with 1x, you could do the patching digitally via the routing tab rather than dealing with physical patching. Alternatively, you could sum pairs of inputs that are unlikely to be used simultaneously down to single stereos pairs. That way, everything will recall and be audible immediately. You just need to watch out for if you're playing the two at the same time ever, in which case you either do it in passes or switch up the routing.

Lastly, it's never a configuration I like to recommend, but you could connect both interfaces via USB and create a Core Audio aggregate device. They still need to be clocked together if you do this, and they probably should be on separate USB busses, but it might be doable.

You've really got a bunch of options, even if you decide against connecting directly via AVB and an add-on ethernet NIC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicsound-2 View Post
Stage-B16

can I use the Stage-B16 only as input for Mics or can I also use them (maybe with pad engaged) in my studio as high quality line inputs for my outboard mic amps ?
Yes, they can be used as line inputs and there are -20 dB pads that can be engaged in the web app. See MOTU.com - Overview for more info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight View Post
Doing 2 passes of 12 inputs is acceptable, if annoying, I don't think that I did enough of this in the last 5-6 years (with my current setup) to pay for 12 extra ins that I almost never use.
If you find you do need more I/O down the line, you can always expand with another interface via AVB or ADAT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight View Post
On to my questions…how many simultaneous analog ins do you really have on the 1248? Do you have to choose between using the 4 mic pres or the first 4 analog ins, or do you effectively get 12 simultaneous ins? Plus 2 DI ins? So 14 analog ins?
All the inputs and outputs are independent and routable (including the headphones). There's no "shared" I/O whatsoever*. That means you've got 8 TRS + 4 mic + 2 DI = 14 analog, and then the digital via ADAT, coaxial S/PDIF and AVB.

* Though of course you're free to route an input signal to as many output signals as you'd like.
Old 1st February 2016
  #2299
firmware

Hi MrMiller,

What is the eta on the new firmware mentioned at namm? Thanks for any info

Mike
Old 1st February 2016
  #2300
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
I think I mentioned this before but if you're set on USB and uncomfortable with 1x, you could do the patching digitally via the routing tab rather than dealing with physical patching. Alternatively, you could sum pairs of inputs that are unlikely to be used simultaneously down to single stereos pairs. That way, everything will recall and be audible immediately. You just need to watch out for if you're playing the two at the same time ever, in which case you either do it in passes or switch up the routing.

Lastly, it's never a configuration I like to recommend, but you could connect both interfaces via USB and create a Core Audio aggregate device. They still need to be clocked together if you do this, and they probably should be on separate USB busses, but it might be doable.

You've really got a bunch of options, even if you decide against connecting directly via AVB and an add-on ethernet NIC.



Yes, they can be used as line inputs and there are -20 dB pads that can be engaged in the web app. See MOTU.com - Overview for more info.



If you find you do need more I/O down the line, you can always expand with another interface via AVB or ADAT.



All the inputs and outputs are independent and routable (including the headphones). There's no "shared" I/O whatsoever*. That means you've got 8 TRS + 4 mic + 2 DI = 14 analog, and then the digital via ADAT, coaxial S/PDIF and AVB.

* Though of course you're free to route an input signal to as many output signals as you'd like.

Thanks again mrmiller, just wanted to verify because so many manufacturers like to play games with their I/O specs. I don't think I could justify the expense add enough I/O for 24 track tape transfers in one pass at this time, 2 passes of 12 usually syncs up close enough for rock n roll.

I am though disappointed that motu chose to not include midi on the 1248, being its their 'flagship' and all...I guess I've been spoilt with all those M Audio interfaces over the years that always have midi... Not the end of the world, maybe, but a touch annoying.
Old 2nd February 2016
  #2301
Quote:
Originally Posted by woofhead View Post
What is the eta on the new firmware mentioned at namm? Thanks for any info
It's feature complete and we're in beta with it right now. We are just making sure it's rock solid before we release. I can't be any more specific about the timeline other than that though.
Old 2nd February 2016
  #2302
Gear Maniac
 
not like this's Avatar
 

I'm having a ton of clicks and pops in Logic X 10.2.1 with my 1248. Could I get a beta version to see if it resolves my issue?
Old 2nd February 2016
  #2303
Thanks mrmiller looking forward to checking it out
Old 2nd February 2016
  #2304
Quote:
Originally Posted by not like this View Post
I'm having a ton of clicks and pops in Logic X 10.2.1 with my 1248. Could I get a beta version to see if it resolves my issue?
It's a closed beta (sorry!) but regardless, that doesn't sound like something the beta would help with. Something else is definitely wonky. Make sure you've got the latest firmware and driver, etc., then give a call into our tech support tomorrow (open 9am-6pm ET) at 617.576.3066. It's free and the support staff in our office are top notch. They will be able to suss out and fix whatever's causing the pops and clicks over the phone with you faster than I can over email.
Old 2nd February 2016
  #2305
USB control of volume

MrMiller

I have been using my MOTU 16A for about a year now, via thunderbolt and its been flawless, sonically and operation wise. Very happy.

I am doing a studio redesign atm, and moved the MOTU a bit further away from my iMac. So I connected it up via USB, whereas for a year its been running thunderbolt. (The thunderbolt "JUST" doesn't reach.

I went to use the volume and mute buttons on my apple keyboard, and found they didn't work.

Some searching lead me to this thread, and a mention within it that it only works when using thunderbolt, not USB.

Will this be the case indefinately? is it achievable... it means I don't have to have a monitor controller... or am I going to have to get a longer thunderbolt cable? what is the maximum length the 16A will accept as a thunderbolt cable?


cheers

Wiz
Old 2nd February 2016
  #2306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz_Oz View Post
MrMiller

I have been using my MOTU 16A for about a year now, via thunderbolt and its been flawless, sonically and operation wise. Very happy.

I am doing a studio redesign atm, and moved the MOTU a bit further away from my iMac. So I connected it up via USB, whereas for a year its been running thunderbolt. (The thunderbolt "JUST" doesn't reach.

I went to use the volume and mute buttons on my apple keyboard, and found they didn't work.

Some searching lead me to this thread, and a mention within it that it only works when using thunderbolt, not USB.

Will this be the case indefinately? is it achievable... it means I don't have to have a monitor controller... or am I going to have to get a longer thunderbolt cable? what is the maximum length the 16A will accept as a thunderbolt cable?


cheers

Wiz
Is it possible ( i don't own any thunderbolt devices other than the 16A) if I was to purchase a hard drive that had two thunderbolt ports on it like the Lacie D2 Thunderbolt 2 drive

http://www.lacie.com/as/en/products/...thunderbolt-2/


That i could connect --- iMac > 2m Thunderbolt Cable > Lacie > 2m Thunderbolt Cable > MOTU 16A

I will be running 24 ins and outs at 48Khz and may end up at 32 ins and outs at 96Khz down the road.

But for now 24 in and out at 48Kz


cheers

Wiz
Old 2nd February 2016
  #2307
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz_Oz View Post
what is the maximum length the 16A will accept as a thunderbolt cable?
3 meters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunde...28interface%29
Old 2nd February 2016
  #2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
thanks

cheers

Wiz
Old 3rd February 2016
  #2309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
That's per-cable. Yes, you can daisy-chain through another device such as a hard drive and it will work. The upcoming firmware has a few fixes related to that but it should work as is. I wouldn't recommend daisy-chaining through a display, though. There are optical Thunderbolt cables as well, though they're a little expensive and fragile.
Old 3rd February 2016
  #2310
Lives for gear
 
Cornvalley's Avatar
Hi mrmiller, why can't we get a talkback solution for the AVB line? That would make this hardware a complete system.
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