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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 10th December 2015
  #2161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yolang96 View Post
Hey guys, is anybody using the 16a via USB? Ive been having issues with clicks and pops.
yes . see my posts above. having several issues. mostly connection between mixer app and device. but also can't use a buffer setting under 512 without stutter/click/pops...
Old 10th December 2015
  #2162
nms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yolang96 View Post
Hey guys, is anybody using the 16a via USB? Ive been having issues with clicks and pops. Mainly at 88.2khz. Cant seem to figure it out for the life of me. Been talking with tech guys at motu for a couple weeks now doing troubleshooting. Even got a replacement unit, didnt fix the issue!!
What OS are you using? Have you tried disabling HPET in the BIOS?

What does the activity look like in the CPU performance monitor in task manager? Do you see spikes at full scale occurring at regularly timed intervals even when playback is stopped?
Old 10th December 2015
  #2163
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolang96 View Post
Hey guys, is anybody using the 16a via USB? Ive been having issues with clicks and pops. Mainly at 88.2khz. Cant seem to figure it out for the life of me. Been talking with tech guys at motu for a couple weeks now doing troubleshooting. Even got a replacement unit, didnt fix the issue!!
I ran my 16A via USB for over a year on an early 2009 Mac Pro at sample rates up to 96k without issue. If you're on Windows I can't offer anything, but it worked just fine on the Mac.
Old 10th December 2015
  #2164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subspace View Post
I got my first Mac in 1999 and a MOTU 2408 about 4 months later. Rock solid set-up that I ran on OS9 through 2006.
Went to a Pro Tools rig after that until earlier this year when I went back to MOTU with a 16A. Ran it over Thunderbolt with a 2011 MBP and over USB with a 2010 iMac, rock-solid performance on both.
I'm not surprised the USB implementation worked glitch-free, Subspace. My concern is that I'll be running the full 64-channel-count limit for USB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subspace View Post
Bought a cyber-Monday 2014 MBP last week to upgrade from my dual core i5 to a quad core i7. Looking forward to using the 16A with the new dual Thunderbolt2 arrangement. Thunderbolt = PCI for me.
From what I've heard, I agree. Unfortunately it's not affordable enough for me to upgrade to a nMP for TB, especially as the 2012 model I bought has been upgraded to 3.3GHz 12C.

Thank you for responding, Subspace. I'll take that as further confirmation that TB seems to be the only "guarantee" for me, and that USB appears to be fine for a single unit, which in your case only demanded a quarter of the channel-count limit.

Such a pity I'll need 64/64 over USB. The wholesaler assured me yet again the day after that post that he "thought" it should all work perfectly... with still no option to return the units. I'm starting to feel like a mug.

Again, thank you for attempting to allay my fears, mate.
Old 10th December 2015
  #2165
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emrr's Avatar
I ran a few remote gigs with a 2008 MBP and 16A on USB, no problems.
Old 10th December 2015
  #2166
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The lowest I can go running windows is 256 over USB. It's enough latency to be just slightly annoying. Lower than that I get digital artifacts. With my current system my old PCI based audio interface could go much lower than that. I think I could get it down to like 64 or something like that before the clicks, pops, and jitter would creep in. That was almost zero latency compared to what was available prior to that.

That's why I'm hoping Motu might have a AVB PCIe Ethernet card they could recommend? One that their drivers would see it's chipset? I mean Mac's and PC's are basically using the same hardware these days. I know Mac's are using specific hardware where PC's it's all over the place but there has to be a Windows based PCIe card manufacturer that's using the same AVB Ethernet chipsets used in the Macs? Motu could we get a recommendation as to which one and the support of in the form of a driver?

I mean, I don't care if you don't fully support it. Call it "beta, use at your own risk". Just point us in the right direction!

Old 11th December 2015
  #2167
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i still haven't heard back from motu on this...
Old 11th December 2015
  #2168
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Thank you for chiming in, Doug; I hope you're well, mate.

Yeah, it seems a single interface over USB, as I implied earlier, is for the most part smooth running if not flawless for many.

My concern stems from the fact that I'll need to exploit MOTU's USB limit of 64 channels, using 3 interfaces.

Sure, if I upgrade to a TB-capable 'puter in 5 years or more as is the plan, I'll likely be just fine. It's what happens in the meantime that's the sticking point.

If I could try the system out and return it if it delivered nothing but headaches, that'd be just dandy, but it seems I don't enjoy the privileges many others in the industry do where it comes to "try-buy" situations.
Old 11th December 2015
  #2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by d. gauss View Post
i still haven't heard back from motu on this...
We're looking into the connection getting dropped issue. I'll shoot you a PM with some diagnostic questions off-thread.

As for the stuttering, that definitely doesn't sound right. Have you reached out to our support yet? They are better equipped to help debug that issue, especially if you're in a position to call in. It's a much tighter feedback loop that way.
Old 11th December 2015
  #2170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Yeah, it seems a single interface over USB, as I implied earlier, is for the most part smooth running if not flawless for many.

My concern stems from the fact that I'll need to exploit MOTU's USB limit of 64 channels, using 3 interfaces.
If USB is what you're worried about, there's no difference between one interface or three: only one is connected to the computer. There are users on here who have reported their success with 64 in/64 out via USB and of course we test thoroughly in house. We wouldn't have released 64 in/64 out if it wasn't solid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
If I could try the system out and return it if it delivered nothing but headaches, that'd be just dandy, but it seems I don't enjoy the privileges many others in the industry do where it comes to "try-buy" situations.
Perhaps find a different dealer? I'd be wary of anyone selling electronics who refuses to let you return it if it's not living up to your expectations. Sweetwater, Amazon, etc. all have very flexible return policies.
Old 11th December 2015
  #2171
nms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
The lowest I can go running windows is 256 over USB. Lower than that I get digital artifacts. With my current system my old PCI based audio interface could go much lower than that.
Any PC users having poor performance at low buffer settings on a good machine they expect more from should try going into the BIOS and disabling High Performance Event Timer (HPET) to see if that works. It'll either make no noticeable difference or it'll make a huge one. On Windows 7 especially this was an issue for a lot of USB audio interfaces. I'm not sure if it continued in W8 or W10. You can also look up enabling HPET in BIOS as well as in the OS using a bcdedit command, so they're both using the same clock, but just disabling HPET in the BIOS has worked more often in cases I've seen. I use a Lynx as my interface and their techs seemed unaware of this, leaving me to figure it out on my own. Hopefully the gang at Motu are more familiar with it.

Last edited by nms; 11th December 2015 at 03:01 PM.. Reason: Forgot to mention this is only for PC users..
Old 11th December 2015
  #2172
Gear Maniac
Hello Nms, i saw that u even created a topic about that, thanks for your attention.

However, didn't find where can i enable disable hpet on mac (is that even possible)?

If you know how to do it, or have a link on how to do it, can you please share with us? thanks in advance.

Michael
Old 11th December 2015
  #2173
nms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaeltn86 View Post
Hello Nms, i saw that u even created a topic about that, thanks for your attention.

However, didn't find where can i enable disable hpet on mac (is that even possible)?
Sorry, as far as I'm aware that's just for PC. Get in touch with Motu support if you haven't yet.
Old 11th December 2015
  #2174
Gear Head
 

New firmware + New Driver + Windows 7 Pro 64 - Web UI Setup can not communicate with server after 2 min. Not possible to open again, without reboot.

MrMiller - please correct this bug fast (we have it like 6 months now in different driver versions, I think), I can't use my interface as I need it.
Old 11th December 2015
  #2175
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGPS View Post
New firmware + New Driver + Windows 7 Pro 64 - Web UI Setup can not communicate with server after 2 min. Not possible to open again, without reboot.

MrMiller - please correct this bug fast (we have it like 6 months now in different driver versions, I think), I can't use my interface as I need it.
exactly my same problem. though i am on win 7 home 64. absolutely impossible to run a session and adjust cue mixes if you have to stop and reboot every 5 mins.
Old 11th December 2015
  #2176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
Any PC users having poor performance at low buffer settings on a good machine they expect more from should try going into the BIOS and disabling High Performance Event Timer (HPET) to see if that works.
My bios does not have that option listed. I did poke around and found "Turbo Mode" which sounded like something I might want to disable.

Avid (see below) recommends disabling it for use with their audio interfaces over USB. I'll give it a shot.

Audio Pops or Stutters When Played Through USB Audio Devices

As a Windows user I still would like to route to AVB over Ethernet via a PCIe card to get the full channels and better latency.

@mrmiller any options for this in the near future for the Windows OS? If I experimented purchasing a AVB Ethernet PCIe card would the driver see it?
Old 12th December 2015
  #2177
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Best computer tweak for MOTU suggestion ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
Any PC users having poor performance at low buffer settings on a good machine they expect more from should try going into the BIOS and disabling High Performance Event Timer (HPET) to see if that works...
This ^ !

I joined GS just so I could thank you.

I have been trying to get better latency with my 1248 for months. After shutting off the HPET I can now use 128 buffer (Minimum Latency) at 24/96, with 16 audio and 16 Kontakt midi channels running in Pro Tools 12.3; also several Waves HEQ and HComp plugin instances. The cyclic CPU usage spikes on core 1 are gone and the Pro Tools system usage meter is much more stable. No clicks !

MOTU may have this tip buried somewhere in their documentation, but it should be moved to the first page and put in bold. I now have latency I can live with.

System Specs: MOTU 1248; 3770K; Asus p8Z77-I; 16 GB Ram; 500 GB SSD; Win 7 Pro; Pro Tools 12.31; Kontakt Komplete 10; Waves Gold + HEQ.

Cheers

ejinbc
Old 12th December 2015
  #2178
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emrr's Avatar
Curious; why are so many people chasing low latency? To avoid using the AVB mixer? Hardware inserts?
Old 12th December 2015
  #2179
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
Curious; why are so many people chasing low latency? To avoid using the AVB mixer? Hardware inserts?
VIs

Unrelated PS: Go MM!
Old 12th December 2015
  #2180
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Hey guys, I'm trying to get a headphone mix set up, and want to route some stuff to different Auxes. I can set up Aux 1 and Aux 2 just fine, but when it comes to the rest, no dice. I have it set up just like the rest, but the Auxes aren't getting any signal.

Any suggestions?
Old 12th December 2015
  #2181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCMarkus View Post
VIs
+1 also for overdubs via software monitoring.

With "Turbo Mode" disabled in the bios I can get it down to "low latency" but had to up the buffer size to 512 samples. This is at 88.2 over USB in Windows. I need to run some more tests but it's an improvement.

Any experiences from Mac users that are running AVB direct into on-board Ethernet?
Old 13th December 2015
  #2182
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16a USB mode clicks/pops

Hi guys! Ive run out of ideas.... My 16a is awesome, but one major issue is im getting lots clicks and pops. It only happens in USB mode. my mac pro doesnt support thunderbolt. Ive tested it through my laptop via thunderbolt and the clicking went away!! Then switched to USB on laptop and clicking came back. So its happening on multiple computers only in USB mode. Tends to only happen in 88.2kHz as well. This is my second unit as well, i got a replacement to see if it would fix the issue, but it has not!!! Anybody have any ideas or experienced this?

Thanks!!
Old 13th December 2015
  #2183
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolang96 View Post
Hey guys, is anybody using the 16a via USB? Ive been having issues with clicks and pops. Mainly at 88.2khz. Cant seem to figure it out for the life of me. Been talking with tech guys at motu for a couple weeks now doing troubleshooting. Even got a replacement unit, didnt fix the issue!!
What OS are you using? Have you tried disabling HPET in the BIOS?

What does the activity look like in the CPU performance monitor in task manager? Do you see spikes at full scale occurring at regularly timed intervals even when playback is stopped?
i accidentally posted again cause i didnt think my original post went through! woops! But yeah i'm on OS X 10.9.5. CPU performance monitor in PT has been looking normal. No abnormal spikes. It seems the issue is happening only in 88.2kHz. It also happens outside of protools. from itunes etc. Im considering doing a clean install of my OS. because it is happening on multiple computers of mine. Of which are running the same OS version.

like i said, this is my second unit which hasnt fix the issue. Theres some sort of super hidden issue here
Old 14th December 2015
  #2184
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolang96 View Post
Hi guys! Ive run out of ideas.... My 16a is awesome, but one major issue is im getting lots clicks and pops. It only happens in USB mode. my mac pro doesnt support thunderbolt. Ive tested it through my laptop via thunderbolt and the clicking went away!! Then switched to USB on laptop and clicking came back. So its happening on multiple computers only in USB mode. Tends to only happen in 88.2kHz as well. This is my second unit as well, i got a replacement to see if it would fix the issue, but it has not!!! Anybody have any ideas or experienced this?

Thanks!!


"...awesome, but one major issue is im getting lots clicks and pops..."

?!?!
Old 14th December 2015
  #2185
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidChampoux View Post
"...awesome, but one major issue is im getting lots clicks and pops..."

?!?!
thanks for your help!!

To clarify your confusion, the 16a is awesome because it sounds great. Except when its clicking and popping
Old 14th December 2015
  #2186
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolang96 View Post
thanks for your help!!

To clarify your confusion, the 16a is awesome because it sounds great. Except when its clicking and popping

Sorry I can't help as I don't own a 16A (I'm considering it though). However, I don't understand how you can say an AD/DA converter is awesome when you're getting pops and clicks out of it ... !
Old 15th December 2015
  #2187
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Probably 'cause the clicks and pops have nothing to do with the converters' quality in this case, but rather are related to a driver / setup / configuration / compatibility issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
If USB is what you're worried about, there's no difference between one interface or three: only one is connected to the computer. There are users on here who have reported their success with 64 in/64 out via USB and of course we test thoroughly in house. We wouldn't have released 64 in/64 out if it wasn't solid.
Thank you for the reassurance, Mr Miller. We've been here before and I truly appreciate it.

It concerns me 'though when folks who've got rock-solid performance using TB switch, for whatever reason, to USB on the same machine and experience clicks and pops, which subsequently disappear when switching back... on Mac Pros such as mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
Perhaps find a different dealer? I'd be wary of anyone selling electronics who refuses to let you return it if it's not living up to your expectations. Sweetwater, Amazon, etc. all have very flexible return policies.
I'll be informing the party concerned of the RPs of several entities in just a few minutes. Hopefully this helps.

The fact that I have to purchase half a dozen TRS<->DB-25 snakes just to be able to test the setup doesn't help either; hopefully I can organise a return arrangement with that dealer too...

Thank you again, Mr Miller

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
Any experiences from Mac users that are running AVB direct into on-board Ethernet?
Mr Miller may have the details of the user who posted early on in this thread about this; he is aware of the case at any rate.

This user is the only one I'm aware of who's provided feedback for this on the Mac. All seemed to go fine, from what I can remember. Not much in the way of detail was provided, from memory, but the specific model of card was mentioned, and Mr Miller had and hopefully still has that information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HCMarkus View Post

Unrelated PS: Go MM!
Sir Markus! Great to see you, bro'.

Maaate, I've been crook and when I have tried to log on to MN in the past month the message, "Go away, spammer" has appeared.

Probably my VPN's port, along with a bunch of others, has been blocked by Jimbo. When I can justify pausing all my downloads I'll be back home, but it would seem only at these times. Bummer, as no other forum has done this. James has obviously played it safe 'though, and I don't blame him for it.

Hope you're well, Sir M, and please give my love to all and sundry.
Old 15th December 2015
  #2188
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Update:

Great news! It turns out that the boss misunderstood my initial enquiry about a possible return should I not be able to get the system to run smoothly. He thought I was asking if I could return the gear if I couldn't find a way to hook up all my MIDI outboard. Strange as this might seem, I can see how it happened; we'd been discussing the fact that I'd need to grab a bunch of DB-26 snakes (elsewhere - he doesn't sell 'em) and ditch several synths in order to squeeze the rig into the 64/64 USB limit. He was focussed on this at the time, so fair enough, methinks.

He seemed to feel quite bad that he'd misunderstood me, and whilst he didn't place a limit (at this early stage) on how long I'd have from the date of purchase, he seemed to accept my guess that I'd need a week at least, especially as I anticipate the hardware re-jigging, software-routing, channel-naming and other configuration processes to chew up at least a day or three.

A verbose explanation, I know, but hey, that's how I roll... especially when I'm stoked... or upset... LOL

Thank you again Mr Miller. Your comment about return policies much earlier today helped me gain sufficient confidence to tackle this again when I might well have otherwise put it off 'til next year.

Schedule update:
1 more instalment January 2016
DB-25 snake x 6 late January / early February 2016
Receive delivery of 16A, 2 x 24Ai and MOTU router mid February
Jump onto GearSlutz in a click, pop and glitch-induced mad panic! LOL

Thank you again peeps.
Old 16th December 2015
  #2189
Gear Addict
 

Still having dropped connection issues over USB...
Old 16th December 2015
  #2190
Gear Nut
 
wilkinsi's Avatar
MOTU AVB Audio 1.5 is not completely immune to dropouts when opening the webpage from the desktop icon. However, it was suggested by MOTU that I connect via ethernet and just type the IP address of the hardware unit into the web address bar, and there are no more dropouts. I now leave both USB and ethernet permanently connected between my 112D and laptop.
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