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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 19th September 2015
  #1981
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JoelFan and tft THANK YOU !!

The piece of the puzzle that was missing was the computer/USB interface ins/outs.. Duhhhhh!
I think I was just overwhelmed!
The routing options seem very powerful compared to other interfaces I have used in the past.


My bad on the videos as I was on that screen to download the latest driver/firmware so I should have seen the videos as well.
One too many Sam Adams me thinks

I'm heading there now.

Thanks guys!
Old 19th September 2015
  #1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeraz View Post
Can control the mixer over Ethernet, but the AI heavy lifting is all over USB. Weird, huh? Support says I should not run both Ethernet and USB at once, but my Ethernet cable is to the router, not the computer, and it works perfectly that way. The USB applet launches, but Neither "Discovery," nor the Web UI setup are successful.

Still, I wish I could access the browser with USB only.

All and all, really like the product so far. hoping I can resolve the USB issue.
Question about this for Mr. Miller - Just wondering why no USB and Ethernet at the same time? I was using it for almost a year like this I think because I was on Snow Leopard and the AVB app did not work on the older os - I am on Mavericks now and just installed the AVB discovery app, so I can unplug the ethernet now, but just wondering what the benefits are - did a lot tracking and mixing sessions with both connections and seemed to be fine??? Is it just more cpu intensive?

BTW- I agree with the poster who said the app on a phone is essentially not-very functional - a very big bar of space wasted at the top saying "1248" and cant see the whole fader when my ipod touch is horizontal

Last edited by Hardtoe; 19th September 2015 at 08:31 PM..
Old 19th September 2015
  #1983
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Rafter Man's Avatar
When first got the 16A about 6 months and 3-4 updates ago, running with both the USB (i'm on a PC currently) and Ethernet plugged in was doing some weird stuff with the sample rate. It would randomly change without my input and became so erratic, it was pretty much unusable in this configuration. This has been covered at least a couple times earlier in the thread.

So after I went to USB only, I kept to that configuration until the Windows 1.3 update fiasco, which led to me eventually rolling back to 1.2, and I haven't removed the ethernet cable since then. I think that was 2 weeks ago now. So long as everything is working up to my satisfaction with zero problems, I don't intend to be in a hurry to update to 1.4 nor remove the ethernet cable while everything continues to run flawlessly. Maybe this was fixed in one of the updates since I was having this erratic sample rate issue 6 months back, I really don't know. It still says in the manual and all the notes/tutorials i've been able to find to not have them plugged in simultaneously, but they never give a reason why. Is it the sample rate issue from before? Is that now no longer a problem going forward? Can having both plugged in do any kind of damage? I wouldn't mind getting a definite answer to those questions, myself.
Old 19th September 2015
  #1984
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One more question, and it might be dumb one, but oh well...

I've been running a Windows PC with my 16A since I first acquired it earlier in the year. It's only got a dual core i5 processor and trying to mix and track in my DAW, Cubase Pro 8, has been just a frustrating chore and I had intended to switch to a MacBook Pro to take advantage of the Thunderbolt connectivity option and have the ability to run more than two tracks with only minimal automation without it slowing down and freezing all the time until I increased the buffer size to where the latency has made tracking a frustrating experience.

So my question is whether I could expect any issues in my ability to change from the PC to the MacBook when it gets here in a few days? I figure I could probably just reset the unit from the front panel, download and install the firmware and drivers for the Mac through the MOTU site, and that everything should be fine? Like I said, probably a bit of a dumb, overblown question for concern, but I haven't seen any information saying either way and I don't think I could ever have too much reassurance that there wouldn't be any unusual delays I should expect.
Old 20th September 2015
  #1985
tft
Gear Nut
 

assuming you are on the latest firmware with the unit itself, just install the driverpackage for mac osx. connect the 16a and you can work with the last setting (routing, mixer, samplerate, ...) when the unit was switched off, right away.
i change between win8 and osx yosemite regularly with no problems at all, using usb.
for the usb connection, you don't even need a driverinstallation on mac osx. it is class compliant, which means, you can just plug it in and the driver will show up.

for thunderbolt, you need to install the drivers from the motu website. it also gives you a little program called "motu discovery" (or similar), where you can connect to the web control-interface of the 16a fast and easy.
with thunderbolt you get the lowest possible latency.
Old 20th September 2015
  #1986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjari View Post
Many pages of stuff here that I dont have the time to read through, and the obvious search terms hit a number of posts that dont answer my question (I am sure some do). How are the preamps on these? Comparable to RME interface preamps? I really like my SCA C84 preamps (Millenia clone). Would love to find a box that allows me to ditch the outboard.
I'm no expert but instinctively I'd suggest you hang onto your high-end preamp/s and plug them into a MOTU AVB interface's line in/s.

The converters are apparently spectesticular; that's where the magic lies. The preamps will surely be OK, but when you consider the price of all the other components, it wouldn't, IMHO, be possible to include high-end preamps in these boxes from a manufacturing-cost perspective and to sell the boxes at their current price points.
Old 21st September 2015
  #1987
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Quick question: How many outputs should I be seeing in the Windows Sound Control Panel?

I'm only seeing "Speakers" MOTU USB Default Device. These are the Main outs.

Is this normal?

In my DAW (Studio One V3 and REAPER) I am seeing 24 ins/outs.
Old 22nd September 2015
  #1988
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Loopy, if you are on windows than this would be correct. Does anyone know if this "http://www.audioscience.com/internet/products/avb/hono_avb_vsc.htm" works with the Motu AVB. This would be so awesome and less expensive than echoaudio.
Old 22nd September 2015
  #1989
minor issue here on osx - is there a way to get the motu AVB discovery app to default to opening chrome when I click on th 1248 in the device tab? Right now it defaults to firefox, and I cant see any way to change that?
Old 23rd September 2015
  #1990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apophis999 View Post
Loopy, if you are on windows than this would be correct. Does anyone know if this "http://www.audioscience.com/internet/products/avb/hono_avb_vsc.htm" works with the Motu AVB. This would be so awesome and less expensive than echoaudio.
Thank you apophis999.
Old 23rd September 2015
  #1991
tft
Gear Nut
 

is somebody here using touchOSC or Lemur on ipad, to control the mixer of a motu avb-device?
i am looking for somebody to test the functionality and i could provide a template (touchOSC or Lemur) for testing. i have problems with delayed parameterchanges (on the sound itself, visually it is immediate), when i want to control the mixer with those apps.
support was not able to recreate it so far.
Old 24th September 2015
  #1992
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I'd love to hear more about the sound of the 16a in particular. Especially in comparison to other 16 out units.
So many pages of this thread is only about tech support.
Old 24th September 2015
  #1993
It sounds great!
Old 24th September 2015
  #1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robby in WA View Post
It sounds great!
I agree - sounds much more open and detailed then my Apogee Ensemble, which also sounds pretty damn good (both are clocked off a Big Ben FWIW) - also the functionality is outstanding and drivers are very efficient
Old 24th September 2015
  #1995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimGitz View Post
Is thunderbolt now supported in Windows 10 with the new drivers? I also agree that we need Talkback, Dim/Mute and Mono switch on the Web App.
Any news about a Thunderbolt Windows PC driver?
Old 25th September 2015
  #1996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuestro View Post
Any news about a Thunderbolt Windows PC driver?
Windows PC AVB Driver AudioScience - Hono AVB VSC. I don't know if it works with motu yet, but i doun't see why not. it works with the Intel I210T1 Gigabit Ethernet Card. Way Cheaper than the Echoaudio card at $800. I also havn't heard if the latter works either.
Old 25th September 2015
  #1997
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But...thunderbolt. It's faster than avb in terms of latency.
Old 25th September 2015
  #1998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
I'd love to hear more about the sound of the 16a in particular. Especially in comparison to other 16 out units.
So many pages of this thread is only about tech support.
Yeah, I've been information/opinion seeking about the 16A (especially compared to the new Apollo), and can't find much outside of this giant thread, but this thread is basically tech support. I know that getting my hands on one and using it is the ultimate, but I would love to hear more about user experience and comparisons in the meantime.
Old 25th September 2015
  #1999
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I haven't noticed anyone say anything negative about the sound of these in this thread, and I've been here since day 1. Plenty of positive comments, all drowned by the general tech support vibe, much of which is confusion about how the new technology works, didn't read the manual, etc.
Old 25th September 2015
  #2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlaws View Post
But...thunderbolt. It's faster than avb in terms of latency.
Well.. If AVB is slower than thunderbolt BUT faster than USB, I think its a reasonable choice since MOTU still didn´t release a windows thunderbolt driver. If it works good on PC. Any experiencies with that?
Old 25th September 2015
  #2001
Monitor 8 locking up on boot

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
I'm finding the above is still true, you have to set the sample rate before you open DP or DP locks up....one doesn't always know the sample rate of an incoming project.

Added a Monitor 8 to the overall picture the other day, with the Monitor 8 as AVB slave, it usually locks up in boot mode if the 16A and Monitor 8 are turned on at the same time, requiring a restart of the slave unit. Falls in line if the master comes up first. I see this being a problem in a large facility.
Hi Doug or MMiller,

I'm having the same problem with the monitor 8 locking up on boot with a 16a as slave.Were you able to resolve this? I'm in touch with motu support and they can't replicate it. I have the most current firmware on both units. I have not tried a factory reset but may try that. Thanks,

Mike

ps They sound great!

Last edited by woofhead; 25th September 2015 at 09:32 PM.. Reason: spelling
Old 26th September 2015
  #2002
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emrr's Avatar
After the last updates, it has never again happened here.
Old 26th September 2015
  #2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
I haven't noticed anyone say anything negative about the sound of these in this thread, and I've been here since day 1. Plenty of positive comments, all drowned by the general tech support vibe, much of which is confusion about how the new technology works, didn't read the manual, etc.
I've had a 16A since they were first released. Never had a down day. Compared it directly with the Apollo 16 and Symphony I/O. Sonics were better than the Apollo, no fan gave it the edge over the Symphony. YMMV, but I'm not looking for other converters until I can afford a Burl Mothership, and even then, I'd want to hear it next to the 16A before dropping $11.5k for the equivalent I/O.

MOTU hit it out of the part with this box, IMSNHO, OMFGBBQ.
Old 27th September 2015
  #2004
Gear Addict
 
Night Stalker's Avatar
 

Tnx in particular to hardtop and bleed.

I happen to own an ensemble and feels like it's time for an upgrade, I'm looking for a 16 out interface. Am eying out the symphony with thunderbolt but I must say I'm not a fan of maestro in general and slightly concerned about possible fan noise. Previous interface to ensemble was a motu 192 hd.

The symphony is double the price of the motu but I don't want $ to be the main deciding factor. Is this 16A really good enough to compete sound wise?

I'm keen on more user experience and comparisons with other high spec devices.
Old 27th September 2015
  #2005
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Yes, it sounds great and it doesn't have the noisy fan of the symphony. In loop back tests they produce strikingly similar results.
Old 27th September 2015
  #2006
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How is latency in real world scenarios with thunderbolt at let's say 48khz. True or close to the claims?

Last edited by Night Stalker; 28th September 2015 at 12:54 AM..
Old 28th September 2015
  #2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
How is latency in real world scenarios with thunderbolt at let's say 48khz. True or close to the claims?
I don't know what the claims are. On my 8M, I get 2.2ms in>out at 44,1kHz with a buffer of 32 samples in Logic Pro X on a 2013 Macbook Pro, while recording 14 tracks with a substantial amount of plugins and providing 3 different (in ear) monitoring mixes from the computer.

Christian
Old 28th September 2015
  #2008
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Night Stalker's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzfilth View Post
I don't know what the claims are. On my 8M, I get 2.2ms in>out at 44,1kHz with a buffer of 32 samples in Logic Pro X on a 2013 Macbook Pro, while recording 14 tracks with a substantial amount of plugins and providing 3 different (in ear) monitoring mixes from the computer.

Christian
That sounds great, what about higher buffer settings?

Do you only keep the low buffer settings for recording and then when you switch over to mixing, I assume you might raise your buffer settings in order to use more resources during mix down?
Old 28th September 2015
  #2009
Gear Addict
 

what's the verdict on stability/performance over USB on windows 7 machines? i have a antelope zen on loan right now and it's not very happy with my system.
Old 28th September 2015
  #2010
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
what about higher buffer settings?
I'll check when I'm back to the rig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Stalker View Post
Do you only keep the low buffer settings for recording
I have kind of a special setup, lemme explain

I record and mix my band's rehearsals and gigs (I'm the drummer) through Logic on the MBP, complete with FX and in-ear monitors. While I'm at it, I can fly in backing tracks, trigger EXS samples and activate special FX on vocal channels through some nifty environment routings and some external stuff involving a Roland SPD-S and two footswitches to the left and right of the hihat pedal.
All this requires the shortest latency that I can possibly get and I achieve that by carefully balancing things, like, switching between less CPU hungry reverbs during recording and better sounding Space Designers during mixdown, etc.

I'm recording the resulting cacophony to a disk image.

Back in the studio, I mount that very disk image through the network on the Mac Pro with its own Logic Pro and Interface (FF800), now able to look at the mess on three large monitors, flip an Environment switch from 'record' to 'mix' which activates quite a bit of stuff (see above) and finalize the mixes.

The reason for using a disk image is that Logic can't handle audio over the network (permission errors, can't record or bounce, can't update fade files etc. over the network). By mounting a disk image over the network, Logic thinks it's a local disk and writes happily to it. I think this qualifies as 'outsmarting the computer'.

I still keep the buffer small during mixdown, as I often add stuff from the keyboard or record extra bits and this in turn needs low latency.

Todays computers are ridiculously fast and powerful. If I have problems playing a full scale session, then something in my routing / resource management is wrong (obvious stuff like using ten inserted Space Dsigners instead of only one on an Aux, and more involved stuff like using a different plugin that's less hungry but still achieve the same result)

Christian
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