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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 29th July 2014
  #151
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
The whole point is that motu included only 1 TB port.

If you had TB devices with 2 ports you'd be able to daisy chain them...

Maybe I am misunderstanding your point. If so, I am sorry.

I think the problem is that there are many other TB devices that also only use a single port. For the MACs with one port, you're SOL.

Thunderbolt hubs are against the thunderbolt spec, by nature.

In order to daisy chain, any other device you buy will also need to have a thru-port.

The belkin one shown above does not solve the problem as it does not enable you to connect more thunderbolt devices to your mac than you already could since it only has a single thru port and one to connect to the mac (2 total).
Old 29th July 2014
  #152
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I have a CalDigit dock, and it has a second TB port...I know nothing of the Belkin, I also have a Drobo mini 4x HD raid, and it too has 2 TB ports,

the simple thing is for all TB devices to have 2 ports, clearly this is cost prohibitive for manufacturers...
Old 29th July 2014
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric4001 View Post
I agree. I just can't believe MOTU designed this otherwise perfect system and undermined it with only one TB port. If there were TB hubs on the market, then I wouldn't care. But you can't buy anything that splits one TB port into two. So this MOTU unit has to be the last TB unit in my chain. So does my Apollo Twin, and my TB hard drive, and the Apple TB display, etc. We have this wonderful TB spec that allows daisy chaining and manufacturers are putting out products that insist on being on the end of that chain. I didn't so much care with the Twin because I use that with my laptop without any other devices. But the MOTU unit is designed to be part of a larger setup.

I have to agree with you.
Old 29th July 2014
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSiege View Post
...The belkin one shown above does not solve the problem as it does not enable you to connect more thunderbolt devices to your mac than you already could since it only has a single thru port and one to connect to the mac (2 total).
Yes, seemed to has 3 ports, 1 in the front to hook to the computer and 2 in the back, that would resolve the problem, but the hole it's just for pass thru the cable.
Old 30th July 2014
  #155
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower View Post
#1 - The new MOTU has many very attractive features.
- Latency specs up front and center - VERY impressive! - Really - from a standalone box POV they are publishing 48K numbers that even with 32 buffers in and out of a DAW we are talking about RTL (through a DAW) of 0.66ms + 1.33ms = 1.99ms !!!! Outstanding and I believe - best in class!
MOTU deserve some serious recognition for that. According to the information on their website the AVB network latency is fixed at 0.625ms even across 7 "hoops" (switches). So if you have 100 meters of Cat5e cabling between each switch that is across 700meters (longer if using fibre).

Analog in and out at 48kHz through the network (sending sound between two networked devices, across 7 switches and hundreds of meters of cable) gives you a latency of 1.29ms (62samples).
Wow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower View Post
- A total system approach with all the TB and Ethernet connectivity - very nice
Not just TB but USB as well. Very good feature. You can record to an iPad via the USB camera kit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower View Post
- The ONE thing I dislike about all these systems is having to run all my monitor stuff in a separate program! This is where AVID HDN is working for me (as was AVID HD since 1998 before). NOW - since MOTU has a DAW they would totally get my attention if instead of a separate layer to get to the DSP in the interface they would integrate that into Digital Performer. Its their Software and Hardware - totally doable! Now that would set them apart in a HUGE way. Really - low latency converters with integrated DSP access in the DAW for super low latency monitor mixes - HUGE I say...
I don't mind using an external mixer but you are absolutely spot on they could implement the same features on Digital Performer. I'm also wondering what is to stop them from implementing some functionality even in Pro Tools and other DAWs. They could write plug-ins that have their processing done on the on-board DSP and route audio directly to their outputs bypassing the DAWs for monitoring. The new StudioRack from Waves does just that.
I also hope the external mixer works with midi controllers or Eucon controllers.
Old 30th July 2014
  #156
Gear Addict
 

I'm overjoyed! This was the unit I was waiting for to upgrade to a new Mac Pro!
I have two MOTU 2408 MK3's that were mod'ed by BLA which I guess I'll put up for sale. I also have a MOTU 8Pre, which I'm guessing I can still use through the 16A's ADAT I/O (overflow inputs). I have a BLA MK2 Micro Clock which I'll A/B against the internal clock on the new MOTU. Hopefully MOTU stepped up their game on the clock but if not the 16A has word clock I/O.

Drag about the headphones but I usually monitor through my Presonus Monitor Station anyway. As for the converters, I have to imagine they improved vastly to play in the same league as the UA stuff.

I had resigned myself to waiting till the V.2 of the new Mac Pro came out, which I still may do but its nice to know I have a far more inexpensive solution to what I thought I may have to do, when I do upgrade (Was thinking about the Antelope Orion 32 but was hesitant about USB2 and the drivers).

My MOTU 2408's have been 100% rock solid for the 8-9 years I've had them. Plus I'm a Digital Performer guy and using MOTU stuff with DP makes things easy. When I have tech issues, its not because of my hardware.

This is excellent news!
Old 30th July 2014
  #157
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timtoonz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
You know, that sounds like a great idea! There must thousands of PCIe-424 peripherals out there, MOTU would make a lot of customers happy with a few audiowire ports on one of their ThB boxes.

But if you held on to your old HD192/24io/2408's they wouldn't make as much money, of course.
Agreed. But I think they'd make even more money if they let some users transition from their current setups. Now it's more likely that when I move on from my HD192's, I'll just start fresh with something like an Orion or an Apogee. If MOTU showed a bit more love for their legacy customers, they'd probably hang on to more of 'em.

I contemplated all of this a bunch recently when I was debating whether or not to attempt an upgrade to the new MacPro. But having to switch converters, trade in my UAD2 cards, and buy expansion chassis for my hard drives etc etc… It all seemed like a whole lotta cash that could be better spent elsewhere. So I had BLA upgrade my HD192's (and bought a Bricasti too. Woo!!!)
Old 31st July 2014
  #158
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aaeronn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaeronn View Post
I'm #2 on the list for a 16A from Sweetwater- the ETA from MOTU is August 4th (don't know if that applies to all 3 or just the 16A).
Quote:
Originally Posted by papawise View Post
If they really fulfill the date, will be what I call "PRO".
Many companies promising and announcing products that take months to be released, this is just too good.
Sweetwater called today - they have them in hand and mine is already on a fedex truck. Tracking info says next Tuesday delivery.
Old 31st July 2014
  #159
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JimLahey's Avatar
 

Curious in Motu's literature they are confident to talk about the converter family used, but make no mention of the clock. I would have expected them to make a marketing statement that they are using improved clocking technology (over their previous converter line up) of some sort. Also since many people have criticized past motu ad/da boxes for having a weak clock etc.

Still the blue display is quite nice and seems like it would be easy on the eyes in low light. Also the 1U rack size is always welcome.
Looking forward to hearing/seeing the 16a
Old 31st July 2014
  #160
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Thunderbolt ist just PCI express, encapsulated in a proprietary media, on each end of a TB controller chip, you get an PCIe bus again.
TB itself is very nice since its enables you a very high bandwidth for your periphery with latency almost as low as on a PCIe card.

There are cheap chipsets on the market which on one side gives you TB connectivity and on the oder Firewire (or usb, or something else) They are placed in those cheap adaptor cables you have to buy for your mbp.

I think they just using their old chipsets and put a TB to Firewire chip in the front of it. Why are they not adding a secondary TB port, if they would use the full featured chipset
internally, they just have to solder a connector to it which is cheap, but the TB chipset probably is to expensive.

Just speculating, i think about getting a RME UFX but since MOTU announced their device i'am unsure what i want to buy since if this IS a high quality TB chipset, it propably rocks as the RME one :(

Another thing to mind is, TB cables are limited in length of 2m currently and there are no fiberchannel cables on the maket yet (which specificationwise are possible too)
Old 31st July 2014
  #161
Having just one Thunderbolt port is ridicolous. I am not going to buy it only for this reason. I already have machines that are "the end of the chain" and there is no way I can change my setup. This time I'll pass. Mabye next revision, with 2 TB ports.
Blackmagic Multidock comes to my mind: they released this very useful disk dock (Blackmagic Design: Blackmagic MultiDock) which looked perfect, but it sported just one TB port. Nobody was going to buy it (and the forum was full of people complaining | Blackmagic Forum • View topic - Multidock Thunderbolt In/Out?). They ended making a version II (with 2 ports) after 6 months. Now it works and sells well. (I have one, too).

Last edited by sigmatibet; 31st July 2014 at 10:51 AM.. Reason: grammar is important!
Old 31st July 2014
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiSC View Post
Another thing to mind is, TB cables are limited in length of 2m currently and there are no fiberchannel cables on the maket yet (which specificationwise are possible too)
These TB optical cables have been around for a while - very expensive, but have long runs. The Apple store is selling a 10m and Amazon has a few different lengths.

Thunderbolt™ - Optical Cables by Corning
Old 31st July 2014
  #163
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beau_mckee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiSC View Post
Thunderbolt ist just PCI express, encapsulated in a proprietary media, on each end of a TB controller chip, you get an PCIe bus again.
TB itself is very nice since its enables you a very high bandwidth for your periphery with latency almost as low as on a PCIe card.

There are cheap chipsets on the market which on one side gives you TB connectivity and on the oder Firewire (or usb, or something else) They are placed in those cheap adaptor cables you have to buy for your mbp.

I think they just using their old chipsets and put a TB to Firewire chip in the front of it. Why are they not adding a secondary TB port, if they would use the full featured chipset
internally, they just have to solder a connector to it which is cheap, but the TB chipset probably is to expensive.

Just speculating, i think about getting a RME UFX but since MOTU announced their device i'am unsure what i want to buy since if this IS a high quality TB chipset, it propably rocks as the RME one :(

Another thing to mind is, TB cables are limited in length of 2m currently and there are no fiberchannel cables on the maket yet (which specificationwise are possible too)
Asus has just released their new Thunderbolt PCIE cards compatible for certain motherboards. It would be interesting to know how the motu interfaces perform through these arrangements with as low latency as a system running thunderbolt built in to motherboard, or thunderbolt via new PCIE cards

product link Motherboards - ThunderboltEX II - ASUS
Old 31st July 2014
  #164
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Jim Rosebrook's Avatar
 

Aside from all the TB discussion....

It's the AVB that is super-exciting to me... opens up lots of possibilities.

I put this out there a few days ago and no one has shared any insider info:

Does MOTU's AVB implement AES67?

Really just curious....

Anybody know???
Old 31st July 2014
  #165
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Rosebrook View Post
Aside from all the TB discussion....

It's the AVB that is super-exciting to me... opens up lots of possibilities.

I put this out there a few days ago and no one has shared any insider info:

Does MOTU's AVB implement AES67?

Really just curious....

Anybody know???




Old 31st July 2014
  #166
Gear Addict
 

Side Note:

"Audinate will deliver the AES67 support as firmware update to OEMs in initial Dante products within 12 months"

I certainly hope MOTU as well as some of the newer AVB solutions implement AES67 soon. Aside from all of the Thunderbolt discussion, MOTU has really caused a stir.

Very interesting stuff indeed.
Old 31st July 2014
  #167
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Jim Rosebrook's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kstackm View Post
Side Note:

"Audinate will deliver the AES67 support as firmware update to OEMs in initial Dante products within 12 months"

I certainly hope MOTU as well as some of the newer AVB solutions implement AES67 soon. Aside from all of the Thunderbolt discussion, MOTU has really caused a stir.

Very interesting stuff indeed.
QSC has announced an upcoming implementation of AES67 too...

MOTU's AVB opens up powerful possibilities with or without AES67 implementation, but if it has this potential compatibility with other audio-over-IP devices... wow!
Old 31st July 2014
  #168
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RiSC's Avatar
 

Thomann.de listed the 16A to be delivered at 4th of august!

additionally a interesting link:
http://cdn-data.motu.com/manuals/thu...User_Guide.pdf

--edit--

from the manual:
<snip>
Universal connectivity
The 1248, 16A, and 8M can connect to a computer with Thunderbolt or high-speed USB 2.0 (which is compatible with USB 3.0). They are USB audio class-compliant, which means that they are iPad compatible (with a camera connection kit) and do not require driver installation for USB connection to a computer.
<snap>

sounds like the haven't spent any second in optimizing drivers in terms of latency as RME.
Old 31st July 2014
  #169
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RiSC's Avatar
 

Can please someone refer the manual too and tell me that i'am wrong with "The Mixer is only controllable via Web Interface but not via software and Midi"?
Old 31st July 2014
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiSC View Post
sounds like the haven't spent any second in optimizing drivers in terms of latency as RME.
??
Old 31st July 2014
  #171
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RiSC's Avatar
 

RME is spending lot of time to their driver software which afaik is the reason for their great latencys!
Old 1st August 2014
  #172
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
Also half the quality of the Orion.

Dont kid yourself, MOTU has not the best converters nor drivers.
This post is all kinds of BS. Price always equals quality in gear, especially gear you've never even heard.

I use Apogee myself but often have ended up in live situations w/ multiple people trading off on one interface & the MOTU drivers are awesome! One driver for all their machines. We've had problems w/ all kinds of interfaces on various computers but never MOTU. They just work! They're not super high end units but they're good & reliable. I'm very curious to hear these new units & see how they hold up to reviews.
Old 1st August 2014
  #173
There is still a war out there going on around audio over ethernet devices. The motu idea does seem a good thing. But will other manufacturers follow?
Old 1st August 2014
  #174
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Rosebrook View Post
QSC has announced an upcoming implementation of AES67 too...

MOTU's AVB opens up powerful possibilities with or without AES67 implementation, but if it has this potential compatibility with other audio-over-IP devices... wow!
again !!!
Old 1st August 2014
  #175
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by muziekschuur View Post
There is still a war out there going on around audio over ethernet devices. The motu idea does seem a good thing. But will other manufacturers follow?
I'm not sure there's a war, maybe... but there is definitely an apparent disaggregate approach to the matter. One thing seems to be clear though: network audio (audio over ethernet/audio via IP) has finally begun to make its way into the general consumers lexicon.

Although many of us were not present to witness the excitement or groundswell of support during the advent and induction of MIDI, this has got to be very close in comparison if not much greater in all of its implications. Be that as it may, it really is an exciting time in digital technology, especially digital audio technology.

Again, as a side note: If Roland, Yamaha, Korg, Kurzweil, Nord or any of the other workstation/synth companies are planning to continue their rom-pler/workstation/sound module/synth concepts with any perpetuity, they'd really do well to consider implementing a true 'audio over network' solution for such devices.

Opening up a keyboard/workstation to both receiving and transmitting moderately higher counts of audio I/O into an audio network could just be the thing to keep the keyboard/workstation concept fresh and relevant moving forward.

Good stuff ! MOTU definitely gets points for innovative and courageous thinking and action. Can't wait to read and hear some reviews on the new interfaces !
Old 1st August 2014
  #176
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emrr's Avatar
Drag to see the 1/4" outputs won't like unbalanced TS cables, only TRS with the ring floated. I'm never sure why this circuit choice is made, cost I assume. Won't be a problem for me, at any rate.

You could be happy, or not, that the above at least means they are balanced outputs which drive both legs, as opposed to impedance balanced outputs which only drive a single leg. I'm not bothered by either, so long as they work.

I am happy to see metal jacks with metal nuts on them, an improvement over the jacks on the old PCI line.

Input and output trim is nice, that'll fix more than a few interfacing scenarios.
Old 1st August 2014
  #177
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rdstreets's Avatar
 

Agree with the comments about the one Thunderbolt jack. You would think if they are introducing three distinct units that there would be a way to daisy chain them altogether.

The only other design element that makes me nervous is how all the signal information has been combined into one screen element.

My 828 screen burned out twice and had to be replaced twice. : (

Hopefully this new hardware is going to be more dependable. With the old design you could still at least rely on all the other LED based meters.
Old 1st August 2014
  #178
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emrr's Avatar
Two units daisy chain together with ethernet cable; it's been said over and over.
I agree somewhat about the screen, but then that's how everything is these days. As well, most people will drive it from an external controller....also with one screen!
Old 1st August 2014
  #179
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rdstreets's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
Two units daisy chain together with ethernet cable; it's been said over and over.
I agree somewhat about the screen, but then that's how everything is these days. As well, most people will drive it from an external controller....also with one screen!
I don't care which connection medium they use to daisy chain so long as it's up to date with the current tech and is fast enough to be usable.

But again 2 is not 3. They have 3 new products out and you can only daisy chain 2 directly? I must be missing something.

I wouldn't be so concerned with another manufacturer utilizing a single screen interface so long as they have a history of reliability with the screen hardware. MOTU does not. That's the problem.

I have two of their firewire interfaces and I love them. But the fact that they had a defect that they couldn't fix right the first time is an issue for me.
Old 1st August 2014
  #180
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papawise's Avatar
You can daisy chain up to 5 units, has been said many times.
The specs are very clear.
The only issue about only 1 thunderbolt port is about daisy chain other kind of devices, forcing you to put the interface as the last device of the chain.
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