The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 1st April 2015
  #1381
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
Are you both using the AVB mixer and having latency?
I use the AVB mixer, then I shutdown the browser window, and I see quite a big latency in WIN 8.1. Clicks and pops if I do not use the safest buffer!

I see that it takes a bit of time to get drivers in windows running smoothly, but I thought that things would have been easier.

Don't know if it is my configuration, but the results are not in line with MOTU fame so far.
Old 1st April 2015
  #1382
Here for the gear
 

I am a little surprised that no one else has chimed in about the reverb sound. Perhaps not that many people are using it in a live setting. I have other reberbs to mix with of coarse, but have been using an ultralite as a small digital mixer with fx for solo guitar and voice, or small duo work where the compact setup is a big plus and high quality sound is the goal. I thought the new Ultralite AVB would easily replace the mk3... but the reverb sound is what is making me question the upgrade I chose.... After spending some time with it now really trying to make it work, the mk3 reverb just sounds a lot better to my ear. This makes a difference when using it for a live performance mixer. I am hoping someone can respond with some help as to how to make the reverb on AVB sound like the mk3 reverb.. I thought they were the same classic reverb... however, the sound is very different to my ear. I hear a delay sound with harsh reflections. I use this for vocal and acoustic guitar and that is where a nice reverb really becomes part of the sound of the instruments. I am surprised that I have been struggling with this reverb sound. I can't imagine why it wouldn't be as good or better than the mk3 devies. But, here I am. It is good to hear I am not the only one with this issue of reverb sound quality. Any suggestions, anyone? Thanks.
Old 1st April 2015
  #1383
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelFan View Post
I use the AVB mixer, then I shutdown the browser window, and I see quite a big latency in WIN 8.1. Clicks and pops if I do not use the safest buffer!

I see that it takes a bit of time to get drivers in windows running smoothly, but I thought that things would have been easier.

Don't know if it is my configuration, but the results are not in line with MOTU fame so far.
I have to retract.
I've put high performance in Windows power options, and magically, my MOTU Ultralite is outstanding!

Now it works, with usual MOTU rock-solid drivers, great ultra low latency.
Wonderful interface!

I will put a look into reverb as soon as I can.

Great job MOTU.
Old 1st April 2015
  #1384
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelFan View Post
I have to retract.
I've put high performance in Windows power options, and magically, my MOTU Ultralite is outstanding!

Now it works, with usual MOTU rock-solid drivers, great ultra low latency.
Wonderful interface!

I will put a look into reverb as soon as I can.

Great job MOTU.
Please share what kind of performance you are getting now !! I have not been able to use some of the lowest buffer settings (64 or 128) at 96khz so I'm hoping you have.
Old 1st April 2015
  #1385
Gear Nut
I'm getting 3.9IN 3.9OUT with Reaper 64bit Win 8.1 buffer 128 Minimum latency 48.000 16bit.

Last edited by JoelFan; 1st April 2015 at 05:19 PM..
Old 1st April 2015
  #1386
I might be late to the reverb debate, but the absolute last thing I bought this unit for was the built in DSP. I bought it because its a TB unit with Symphony quality at half the price.

PS, I love it, you're never getting it back, MOTU!!! Muahaha
Old 2nd April 2015
  #1387
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
I might be late to the reverb debate, but the absolute last thing I bought this unit for was the built in DSP. I bought it because its a TB unit with Symphony quality at half the price.

PS, I love it, you're never getting it back, MOTU!!! Muahaha
I understand this point, but the Ultralite AVB is said to have twice the processing power than the mk3 generation. I think the mk3 devices sound great with cuemix fx - great eq, compression, limiter, and reverb. I assumed the AVB would have equal or better DSP. My impression so far is the reverb engine is not as good as mk3. I understand there are a lot of other advancements with the Ultralite AVB, however, for my purposes it seems like I am better suited to stick with the ultralite Mk3, which is dissapointing since there are other things that are awesome about the Ultralite AVB. I am hoping someone on here can give me some indication that I am wrong and the reverb on AVB is the same or better than mk3.... anyone? At least I am not the only one who has noticed this as there have been at least a few others on here asking the same thing I am. Thanks.
Old 2nd April 2015
  #1388
Lives for gear
 
GP_Hawk's Avatar
Not that it's a deal breaker, I would also be curious to hear why the differences between the avb and mkiii. Why would they add a less favourable reverb to the avb? Doesn't make sense...
Old 2nd April 2015
  #1389
Lives for gear
 
emrr's Avatar
If you are using the AVB mixer properly, your buffer settings should have no effect on latency. It's input->AVB mixer->output in that case. Clicks and pops sound like the result of low buffers with processing in a DAW, signal passing through the DAW. Apologies if obvious, maybe it's not. USB latency is published somewhere, how do your numbers compare? What does the DSP usage bar in the AVB mixer show?

Last edited by emrr; 2nd April 2015 at 10:28 PM..
Old 2nd April 2015
  #1390
Lives for gear
 
jlaws's Avatar
Part of the thing is, I was able to partially solve the issue in sonar by turning of all c states in the bios. Even though I already had core parking turned off in windows, which reaper seemed to be ok with, sonar didn't play nicely until I had disabled all of the c states and speed step, which means my computer is basically running at max clock 24/7, which is a minor annoyance. Furthermore, this has only partly solved my latency issues with sonar. It's still able to run noticeably less plugins at lower buffer settings than reaper. Anyway, I hope that helps you out.

Another thing causing skips (if you use sonar), which isn't necessarily something easy to diagnose, are the vst3 versions of Antares products. I was using harmony engine, but it apparently affects all their products such that in sonar, if you load even one vst3 Antares plugin into a project with 1 track and only that plugin, it will cause skips, regardless of buffer size. Using the vst2 versions fixed this. But as I said, you can get sonar's performance up, but it still seems to be a bit slower compared to reaper and even pt, which I've since moved to because of the aforementioned issues.


- edit: oops, just read up to here now, but I'll leave this here for anyone else who encounters these issues with sonar
Old 2nd April 2015
  #1391
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
I might be late to the reverb debate, but the absolute last thing I bought this unit for was the built in DSP. I bought it because its a TB unit with Symphony quality at half the price.

PS, I love it, you're never getting it back, MOTU!!! Muahaha
Curious - have you directly compared to the Symphony Sam, or just a gut feeling? I love my 1248, but I think the Symphony would likely still be another step up, no?

(based on qualities I like about my original Ensemble - the 1248 has better depth and realism, but not as much transient snap to my ear - I chock this up to clocking perhaps? - I have never heard a Symphony system in person)

Last edited by Hardtoe; 2nd April 2015 at 09:50 PM..
Old 3rd April 2015
  #1392
I had the chance to run some stems out of both and was hard pressed to tell a difference. I've also A/Bd it directly with my Sig modded 002, which I have shot out extensively in the past with a symphony, and was once again hard pressed to hear a difference.

The nice thing is I just don't worry with this interface. It boots up, it's stable, it was affordable, it sounds UNREAL, it has no stupid built in pres, it's Thunderbolt, you can name it hilarious things and make it flash on the display, and it takes up a single (well it runs hot) rack space in my rig. I'm so happy with it.
Old 3rd April 2015
  #1393
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlaws View Post
Part of the thing is, I was able to partially solve the issue in sonar by turning of all c states in the bios. Even though I already had core parking turned off in windows, which reaper seemed to be ok with, sonar didn't play nicely until I had disabled all of the c states and speed step, which means my computer is basically running at max clock 24/7, which is a minor annoyance. Furthermore, this has only partly solved my latency issues with sonar. It's still able to run noticeably less plugins at lower buffer settings than reaper. Anyway, I hope that helps you out.

Another thing causing skips (if you use sonar), which isn't necessarily something easy to diagnose, are the vst3 versions of Antares products. I was using harmony engine, but it apparently affects all their products such that in sonar, if you load even one vst3 Antares plugin into a project with 1 track and only that plugin, it will cause skips, regardless of buffer size. Using the vst2 versions fixed this. But as I said, you can get sonar's performance up, but it still seems to be a bit slower compared to reaper and even pt, which I've since moved to because of the aforementioned issues.


- edit: oops, just read up to here now, but I'll leave this here for anyone else who encounters these issues with sonar
Thank you, I note your experience for future use.
Old 3rd April 2015
  #1394
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
If you are using the AVB mixer properly, your buffer settings should have no effect on latency. It's input->AVB mixer->output in that case. Clicks and pops sound like the result of low buffers with processing in a DAW, signal passing through the DAW. Apologies if obvious, maybe it's not. USB latency is published somewhere, how do your numbers compare? What does the DSP usage bar in the AVB mixer show?
I agree with you, buffer setting has implication only when the audio stream goes to the PC and comes back. Since I'm using Ultarlite AVB as a small band mixer, as a recording interface and as audio card for playing virtual instruments, I do need to have stable and low-latency driver.
Old 3rd April 2015
  #1395
Here for the gear
 

The MOTU 1248 and other MOTUs with s/pdif input currently support up to 96 kHz on the input. Is is possible to support up to 4x (192 kHz) in the future? I know my Tascam US-366 supports 192 kHz. I'm asking because an OPPO playing back an SACD will output at 192 kHz on its s/pdif outputs.
Old 4th April 2015
  #1396
Quote:
Originally Posted by undermind View Post
Hopefully someone will take notice of the 5 requests in the last 2 pages of this thread and reply to you and guitarmusic regarding reverb. But if they don't, it might be because reverb is maybe not a huge selling point for them. Or maybe it's because the reverb topic had been discussed in this thread already by mrmiller, where he noted that inclusion of high level FX like the UA gear was not what they were after.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPl View Post
Not that it's a deal breaker, I would also be curious to hear why the differences between the avb and mkiii. Why would they add a less favourable reverb to the avb? Doesn't make sense...
Took notice a while back but didn't get a chance to respond yet. Sorry! Of course we don't intend the reverb to be a step back. I'll talk to the DSP team next week and see what their thoughts on the matter are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
The MOTU 1248 and other MOTUs with s/pdif input currently support up to 96 kHz on the input. Is is possible to support up to 4x (192 kHz) in the future? I know my Tascam US-366 supports 192 kHz. I'm asking because an OPPO playing back an SACD will output at 192 kHz on its s/pdif outputs.
We don't have any plans currently, nor do we support ADAT at 192khz via SMUX. I'm not sure the specific reasoning but I can ask.
Old 7th April 2015
  #1397
Gear Nut
Again, I've got the Ultralite AVB driver to work so-so. Sometimes it works ok, then it stops. I have to unplug USB cable from PC. Even when on youtube only. It does not depend on buffer.

I don't know what's going on. I hope for a new driver, this thing leaves much to be desired in terms of stability.

Last edited by JoelFan; 7th April 2015 at 06:03 PM..
Old 7th April 2015
  #1398
Lives for gear
 
emrr's Avatar
Since the 1.2.0+931 firmware update, opening a DP project with a different sample rates causes DP to freeze if left unattended on startup. Force quit is required, with DP listed as 'not responding'. Many times forcing the 16A to switch sample rates to match the project will do nothing, usually the 16A switching back to the rate it booted with. Sometimes it'll work and DP will finally open, but always with 'MOTU audio system turned off'. This was never the case before this last update.
3.4 i7 Imac, 10.9.5, DP8.07.
Old 7th April 2015
  #1399
Lives for gear
 
emrr's Avatar
The AVB mixer compressor is still 'broken as designed'. Take it out of bypass, the level shoots way up, controls all affect one another. This was reported a loooonnngg time ago, and noted by multiple users. Behaves exactly as I described in August '14.
Old 8th April 2015
  #1400
tft
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
The AVB mixer compressor is still 'broken as designed'. Take it out of bypass, the level shoots way up, controls all affect one another. This was reported a loooonnngg time ago, and noted by multiple users. Behaves exactly as I described in August '14.
it seems like it has some sort of auto-makeupgain that can't be switched off.
that can add quite some gain, much more than i am able to balance out with the gain knob.
with lower signals that need deeper threshold and with ratio set high, it is not possible to counteract the automatic makeupgain with the gainknob anymore.
the only way around that would be to bring the signal up before the compressor.

but i vote for a switch to disable makeupgain for the compressor!

other than that, the compressor works as i would expect from a simple and straightforward trackcompressor.
Old 8th April 2015
  #1401
Lives for gear
 
dandeurloo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
Since the 1.2.0+931 firmware update, opening a DP project with a different sample rates causes DP to freeze if left unattended on startup. Force quit is required, with DP listed as 'not responding'. Many times forcing the 16A to switch sample rates to match the project will do nothing, usually the 16A switching back to the rate it booted with. Sometimes it'll work and DP will finally open, but always with 'MOTU audio system turned off'. This was never the case before this last update.
3.4 i7 Imac, 10.9.5, DP8.07.
This is the same with PT 11. But it only happens one way. I can't remember if it happens when I am going up in sample rate to the next session or down.
Old 8th April 2015
  #1402
Lives for gear
 
emrr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tft View Post
it seems like it has some sort of auto-makeupgain that can't be switched off.
that can add quite some gain, much more than i am able to balance out with the gain knob.
with lower signals that need deeper threshold and with ratio set high, it is not possible to counteract the automatic makeupgain with the gainknob anymore.
the only way around that would be to bring the signal up before the compressor.

but i vote for a switch to disable makeupgain for the compressor!

Yeah. Even changing the ratio affects the other parameters. It's F'ed. Technical term. It acts like a one knob compressor, but it has multiple knobs, and it'd still qualify as broken as a one knob compressor. It's virtually useless. I don't believe anyone who has ever worked in audio designed this thing, and I say that purposefully to inflame someone into fixing it. See if you keep your job after turning one of these on during a live show at high volume, and launch several speaker cones across the room.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/10350169-post369.html



My next target is lack of 'direct hardware playthrough' working in DP. It's almost enough to make me want to sell my 16A. 'Almost' shouldn't be read as a positive. Judging from comments over at MOTUnation, people don't grasp this has gone away. There should be a big fat sticker on the box and on the website mentioning this. One step forward, two steps back. Plenty of people will keep working with their inferior sounding MOTU legacy systems just to keep that feature. It's got to be a simple piece of code; it existed before, it is NOT unimportant or obsolete now.


Just my $0.02. : )
Old 8th April 2015
  #1403
Gear Maniac
 

Waow I'm happy I read this thread I was about to get a 1248 but if basic functions are broken like the compressor. How often does MOTU update firmware?
Old 8th April 2015
  #1404
Gear Head
 

hello mrmiller, we are thinking of using avb motu interfaces for an art installation - is it possible to change routing of channels by OSC? that would be an important point for the decision if we can use the avb-interfaces (we need about 120 channels, fast switchable to an output per OSC)
how fast is the process of switching? is it in realtime? Thank you in advance.
Old 9th April 2015
  #1405
Here for the gear
Bypass Preamps

Do the analogue inputs 1-4 on the back of the MOTU 1248 bypass the built in preamps? I want to make sure that if I use the 1248 as my AD/DA that my outboard gear won't go through an unnecessary gain stage. My apologies if this information has already been addressed. I have read through the website and 47 pages of this crazy thread and cannot find the answer. Thanks!

R Jensen
Old 9th April 2015
  #1406
tft
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikbeat View Post
Waow I'm happy I read this thread I was about to get a 1248 but if basic functions are broken like the compressor. How often does MOTU update firmware?
don't read things into this!
the compressor is working correctly.
it just has an automatic makeupgain, that makes balancing levels unconvenient. it will lift levels pretty high for low threshold/high ratio, which is not bad in itself. when bypassing, levels will drop and come up again when enabling.
for very high automakeupgain, equal in/out gain for comparison via bypass will not be possible.
Old 9th April 2015
  #1407
Here for the gear
16A user here, had the unit for 2 months, switched over from a lynx aurora.
No complaints, solid drivers and the unit is simply one of those that you plug in and forget about, workflow with this is very smooth.

Question...
Running cubase 8/pro tools on a windows 7 64 PC am I able to daisy chain two of these units for 32 I/O yet? Connection via Usb
Old 9th April 2015
  #1408
Lives for gear
 
emrr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tft View Post
don't read things into this!
the compressor is working correctly.
it just has an automatic makeupgain, that makes balancing levels unconvenient. it will lift levels pretty high for low threshold/high ratio, which is not bad in itself. when bypassing, levels will drop and come up again when enabling.
for very high automakeupgain, equal in/out gain for comparison via bypass will not be possible.
Yeah, it works, you just have to move the output level to compensate for any change made on either threshold or ratio. Shouldn't be like that. It's not auto-level, because level changes much more than that would. It's a gain boost for anything other than highest threshold. It'd make a recording client throw their headphones across the room.

Last edited by emrr; 9th April 2015 at 04:44 PM..
Old 9th April 2015
  #1409
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
Yeah, it works, you just have to move the output level to compensate for any change made on either threshold or ratio. Shouldn't be like that. It's not auto-level, because level changes much more than that would. It's a gain boost for anything other than highest threshold. It'd make a recording client throw their headphones across the room.
ok still sounds pretty Broken to me. if you can't adjust threshold while the singer is singing? How do you work with this?
Old 9th April 2015
  #1410
Quote:
Originally Posted by akeel View Post
Running cubase 8/pro tools on a windows 7 64 PC am I able to daisy chain two of these units for 32 I/O yet? Connection via Usb
Yup! All the interfaces support 64/64 channels in/out over USB with the latest 1.2.0 firmware. You can easily link two 16As with an ethernet cable and get a full 32/32 analog I/O. Add in the ADAT on both boxes and you could use all 64/64 channels to/from the computer. Pro Tools, however, limits non-Avid devices to 32/32 I believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richarddwjensen View Post
Do the analogue inputs 1-4 on the back of the MOTU 1248 bypass the built in preamps? I want to make sure that if I use the 1248 as my AD/DA that my outboard gear won't go through an unnecessary gain stage. My apologies if this information has already been addressed. I have read through the website and 47 pages of this crazy thread and cannot find the answer. Thanks!
The 8 analog ins on the back do not go through the pre-amps—only the 4 mic ins do. That said, all analog inputs do go through a trim stage that you can control to adjust the level as needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGPS View Post
hello mrmiller, we are thinking of using avb motu interfaces for an art installation - is it possible to change routing of channels by OSC? that would be an important point for the decision if we can use the avb-interfaces (we need about 120 channels, fast switchable to an output per OSC)
how fast is the process of switching? is it in realtime? Thank you in advance.
Absolutely! The OSC and HTTP API lets you do everything the web app itself can do, including updating routes. Changing a route is essentially realtime though it does take a handful of samples to disconnect and hook it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikbeat View Post
Waow I'm happy I read this thread I was about to get a 1248 but if basic functions are broken like the compressor. How often does MOTU update firmware?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tft View Post
don't read things into this!
the compressor is working correctly.
it just has an automatic makeupgain, that makes balancing levels unconvenient. it will lift levels pretty high for low threshold/high ratio, which is not bad in itself. when bypassing, levels will drop and come up again when enabling.
for very high automakeupgain, equal in/out gain for comparison via bypass will not be possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
Yeah, it works, you just have to move the output level to compensate for any change made on either threshold or ratio. Shouldn't be like that. It's not auto-level, because level changes much more than that would. It's a gain boost for anything other than highest threshold.
We are listening—sorry I haven't responded before now. We're trying to find the best way forward! We make firmware updates on a fairly regular basis that not only fix issues but add major features, e.g. increasing the channel count over USB from 24/24 to 64/64 at 1x rates and adding optical S/PDIF support. Much of this is driven by feedback from you all, so thank you for pointing out issues like this!

I spoke with the DSP team and I think we've got some good solutions in the works. We're going to add a preference to disable the auto makeup gain globally. As well, we're planning on changing the built-in presets to have a default ratio of 1:1 instead of 2:1.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump