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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 16th March 2015
  #1291
I can't remember if I asked this, but here goes.
I'm ordering my 16a tomorrow (yayyy) and I have a quick question. I'm coming from an Avid interface where its easy to set routing and never look at it again. 99% of my studio's sessions will be 48/24. I won't be doing crazy routing, I just want PT's "Analog 1-16" to equal MOTU's 1-16. When I accomplish this, do I need the web browser or app open? Once I set my routing up, I will almost never touch it (headphone mixes handled by ADAT on the Central Station).

Thanks!! Very excited to own this thing!!!!!
Old 16th March 2015
  #1292
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Gebo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
I can't remember if I asked this, but here goes.
I'm ordering my 16a tomorrow (yayyy) and I have a quick question. I'm coming from an Avid interface where its easy to set routing and never look at it again. 99% of my studio's sessions will be 48/24. I won't be doing crazy routing, I just want PT's "Analog 1-16" to equal MOTU's 1-16. When I accomplish this, do I need the web browser or app open? Once I set my routing up, I will almost never touch it (headphone mixes handled by ADAT on the Central Station).

Thanks!! Very excited to own this thing!!!!!
This is how I'm running it - there are default settings that do exactly what you are looking for - and you don't need to have the control surface open.
Old 17th March 2015
  #1293
Here for the gear
 

About how they "sound"

I have lived with the 1248 and 8M for almost 3 months and would like to volunteer some observations about how they “sound.”

When I began recording the Ampex 351-2 and AG-440 and Scotch 206/207 tape were pretty much the standard. These were analog tape machines that recorded the whole signal – no sampling. As with any machine there were trade-offs. We got the whole signal but in order to record onto magnetic tape it had to be biased. An oscillator produced the bias signal. It produced hiss and bias “rocks,” a kind of low-level knocking sound. Actually, this reflected the linearity of the oscillator and the uniformity of the tape particles. We recorded at as high a level as possible to minimize these problems. But the point is we got the whole signal.

I still have the 351-2 in one of my racks and many visitors see it and snicker about how much better things are today. Usually they mumble about how bad the old thing must have sounded. I can’t resist so put on a tape and play something for them and enjoy the astonished look on their faces. After I play the same thing from a CD they often look confused. Today we have no hiss, bias rocks, wow and flutter and minimal THD. But, we don’t have the whole signal; we have a partial signal. What is missing is significant! We can’t regain what is missing but we strive to make what we do have sound as best we can.

Input amplifiers, quality of components, especially capacitors, and even circuit board layout are very important even before the signal gets to the A/D converters. Impedance matching, slew rate, rise time of the amplifiers are significant factors. Are they Class A? Full differential inputs? Then, the converter itself comes into play. Resolution is all important to the sound. What does that mean?

Let me give an analogy: Chuck Yeager, the well-known test pilot who was first to break the sound barrier, flew P-51’s in World War II. The P-51 fighter flew escorts (protection) to the B-25 heavy bombers. P-51 pilots all had 20-20 or better vision but they loved to fly with Chuck because his eyes could resolve enemy aircraft 50 miles farther out than anyone else thus giving them time to get in the clouds for cover.

All other things being equal the A/D converter with the highest resolution will sound the best. Remember, any converter can pass fundamental frequencies but it is the harmonic (out to at least seven harmonics) structure of a voice or an instrument that defines its sound. As a violinist pulls the bow faster and closer to the bridge that sound becomes richer and stronger and more exciting. When a singer excites his soft palette (think Pavarotti) or brass players overblow their instruments that richness (complex harmonic structure) is what grabs our emotions. This is what separates the real converter from the wannabes. We want that resolution or the music won’t have life. We may not have the whole signal but we want as much of it as we can get.

In my experience the new MOTU devices sound more like the analog tape machines than others I've sampled over the years. They are warm and full and I can hear the “metal” or the edge in a violin or singer or the bite/bark in brass or the reeds of an organ. It’s an exciting sound-noticeably better than the previous generation of MOTU equipment. The clock in these devices is way more than enough so that jitter is not an issue. These are the best sounding boxes I’ve heard since I began recording to computer back in 1990!

Lastly, the versatility of routing and the incredible number of installation options makes these things a winner in my book. I find MOTU very receptive to suggestions on ways to improve their gear by responding to feedback from the “field.” I think the 1248 and 8M are a heck of a buy.

I’m using them and enjoying them every time I fire them up!
Old 17th March 2015
  #1294
Gear Maniac
 

Is there anyone using the 1248 on windows 7? How are the drivers as in stability low latency? I know they can only run through USB. I Run cubase 8 on a windows 7 machine. Any feedback on running these on windows would be great.
Old 17th March 2015
  #1295
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I'm running it on Windows now and I'd say the latency hasn't been very good compared to the latency when I was using it through thunderbolt on the same machine (when it was a hackintosh). In other words, the windows drivers aren't as developed. It's certainly usable and the sound quality and features are good, but if you want to run a ton of plugins at a relatively low latency, I don't think that's gonna happen, unless it's just something specific to my setup.
Old 17th March 2015
  #1296
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlaws View Post
I'm running it on Windows now and I'd say the latency hasn't been very good compared to the latency when I was using it through thunderbolt on the same machine (when it was a hackintosh). In other words, the windows drivers aren't as developed. It's certainly usable and the sound quality and features are good, but if you want to run a ton of plugins at a relatively low latency, I don't think that's gonna happen, unless it's just something specific to my setup.
Thanks for the reply. I'm curious as my computer is a Hackintosh with Mavericks on it. Now my MB has Thunderbolt (I) so maybe if I migrate to the Mac it would have better latency as you say. I think I will have to test the 1248 on my system and check the difference in Latency and stability.
Old 17th March 2015
  #1297
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian8377 View Post
The last I heard we are still at 24 channels of I/O on the USB for windows, is that correct? If so, is that at 44.1, 48, 96, 192?

And when you get the drivers to support 32 on USB, what sample rate will that be for?
New firmware update (1.2.0) shipping today for all AVB interfaces. This update, as promised, supports higher channel counts via USB. On both OS X and Windows, we now support up to 64 channels over USB at 44.1/48khz and up to 32 channels at 88.1/96khz. As always, let me know if you run into any issues and I'll do my best to help sort it out.
Old 18th March 2015
  #1298
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
New firmware update (1.2.0) shipping today for all AVB interfaces. This update, as promised, supports higher channel counts via USB. On both OS X and Windows, we now support up to 64 channels over USB at 44.1/48khz and up to 32 channels at 88.1/96khz. As always, let me know if you run into any issues and I'll do my best to help sort it out.
What nice morning news! Thank you! But I hope, you have the assymetric channel counts in mind, that would give us more flexibility.

Can I update 1.1.4 => 1.2.0 or should I update 1.1.4=>1.1.5=>1.2.0?
Old 18th March 2015
  #1299
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I'd like to retract what I said earlier. Apparently it is an issue with Sonar. When I downloaded and tried Reaper for the first time today, I was able to load up a project with a buffer of 64 that has tons of plugins with no dropouts. The latency is 2.3/2.3. So indeed, the 1248 is capable of very low latency with even fairly large projects. Now if only Sonar could do the same...
Old 18th March 2015
  #1300
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
New firmware update (1.2.0) shipping today for all AVB interfaces. This update, as promised, supports higher channel counts via USB. On both OS X and Windows, we now support up to 64 channels over USB at 44.1/48khz and up to 32 channels at 88.1/96khz. As always, let me know if you run into any issues and I'll do my best to help sort it out.
Thanks,

I updated the firmware on a 1248 connected to win 8.1 via usb, and I still only see 24 connections to/from my computer in the devices portion of the web interface.
Old 18th March 2015
  #1301
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by javajunkie View Post
Thanks,

I updated the firmware on a 1248 connected to win 8.1 via usb, and I still only see 24 connections to/from my computer in the devices portion of the web interface.
I haven't updated yet, but perhaps you have to "activate" them in the device settings (Max channels to Computer / Max channels from Computer)

Edit: sorry, I did not read properly - you have already checked there.
Old 18th March 2015
  #1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGPS View Post
What nice morning news! Thank you! But I hope, you have the assymetric channel counts in mind, that would give us more flexibility.

Can I update 1.1.4 => 1.2.0 or should I update 1.1.4=>1.1.5=>1.2.0?
All updates are full updates. Just go straight to 1.2.0. No asymmetric channel counts but hopefully 64x64 at 1x rates will open up a lot of possibilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by javajunkie View Post
I updated the firmware on a 1248 connected to win 8.1 via usb, and I still only see 24 connections to/from my computer in the devices portion of the web interface.
You need to select a different USB Streaming Mode from the Device tab. It should be the very first dropdown menu on the page. After updating, the 1248 will still be using the original 24x24 mode.
Old 18th March 2015
  #1303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
New firmware update (1.2.0) shipping today for all AVB interfaces. This update, as promised, supports higher channel counts via USB. On both OS X and Windows, we now support up to 64 channels over USB at 44.1/48khz and up to 32 channels at 88.1/96khz. As always, let me know if you run into any issues and I'll do my best to help sort it out.
That is awesome! I'm off the fence and ordering a 16a today! I hope there are not problems with Sonar X3 on a Windows 7 machine. My current interface is a RME FF800 and has been rock solid.
Old 18th March 2015
  #1304
Gear Head
 

mrmiller,

can you tell me what Mixer resources (channels, aux-groups, etc) are available for the Monitor-8 running at 192kHz?
We see differences in the mixer-capabilities between 16A and 8M in the Mixer running at 192kHz, I cannot find a clear overview in the manuals.
Old 18th March 2015
  #1305
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
New firmware update (1.2.0) shipping today
Thanks Michael to you and your team, well done.

What is the reasoning behind implementing an extra USB Streaming Modes menu which on the surface seems to set what's set anyway (xx channels with yy samplerate) ?

Thanks

Christian

PS: Faulty 8M swapped by Thomann *very* quick and without issues. Knock on wood...
Old 18th March 2015
  #1306
Quote:
Originally Posted by balijon View Post
mrmiller,

can you tell me what Mixer resources (channels, aux-groups, etc) are available for the Monitor-8 running at 192kHz?
We see differences in the mixer-capabilities between 16A and 8M in the Mixer running at 192kHz, I cannot find a clear overview in the manuals.
I agree, this area needs more clarification in the manual and the FAQ. The 8M is the odd one out of the bunch here because of V-Limit. That has a fair bit of DSP overhead which means fewer auxes and groups at 4x, unfortunately. All the interfaces have 3 auxes and 2 groups at 4x except for the 8M which only has 1 aux and 1 group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzfilth View Post
What is the reasoning behind implementing an extra USB Streaming Modes menu which on the surface seems to set what's set anyway (xx channels with yy samplerate) ?
That's an unfortunate consequence of USB audio class compliance. Drivers don't seem to like it when you need to change USB bandwidth reservations mid-run. That means we need to take the hardware offline briefly and re-initialize with our new bandwidth reservation. If we didn't expose the USB mode menu, then we'd have to do that when the sample rate changed. Audio clients can generally deal with the sample rate changing. They really don't like it when the hardware goes offline, however. That leads to our compromise solution: manually set the USB mode so that we can always reserve the same bandwidth then limit the available sample rates based on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzfilth View Post
PS: Faulty 8M swapped by Thomann *very* quick and without issues. Knock on wood...
Glad to hear it! I'm sorry you had to go through that but I hope this new unit is rock solid. Looking forward to dissecting your old 8M to see what went wrong.
Old 18th March 2015
  #1307
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
All updates are full updates. Just go straight to 1.2.0. No asymmetric channel counts but hopefully 64x64 at 1x rates will open up a lot of possibilities.



You need to select a different USB Streaming Mode from the Device tab. It should be the very first dropdown menu on the page. After updating, the 1248 will still be using the original 24x24 mode.
Thanks, all set.
Old 19th March 2015
  #1308
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Hmmm, routing from the computer to the 1248 mixer seems to have got strange. The channels in the mixer do not seem to correspond to the computer channels (64 ch USB mode).

Any one else experience this?
Old 19th March 2015
  #1309
Quote:
Originally Posted by javajunkie View Post
Hmmm, routing from the computer to the 1248 mixer seems to have got strange. The channels in the mixer do not seem to correspond to the computer channels (64 ch USB mode).

Any one else experience this?
How do you mean they don't correspond? Can you PM me a screenshot of your Routing tab?
Old 19th March 2015
  #1310
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
How do you mean they don't correspond? Can you PM me a screenshot of your Routing tab?
Screenshot wouldn't really help here. Everything looks right but the signal from the routing tab when it gets to the mixer. I will probably just talk to support because it is easier to describe verbally.

But I will give you an example,

From the Routing Page, if I route From Computer 1 and From Computer 2(Input - From Computer USB section) to in 33 and in 34 (Out - Mix In Section) everything looks right and when I playback my daw I can the the blue signal lights flickering on both the in and out.

When I go to the Mixing page and go to the "In 33 - From Computer 2" (stereo mode), I have no signal coming to the channel. It was configured and working before.

I even tried opening the Routing button on the Channel and I see the signal lighting up on the "From Computer 1-2" selection, but it appears it it not actually getting into the mixer channel. It is not muted and the levels are up.

Another example,
A signal that is routed to Mixer channels 3 and 4 are actually coming in through mixer channels 35-36. I am attaching a screenshot of that. Even though it show signal coming from Analog-Axe-fx XL main and no signal from "From Computer 3-4", Computer 3-4 is selected and you can the signal meters are showing a signal in the Slider area.
Attached Thumbnails
MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface-mix_capture.jpg  
Old 19th March 2015
  #1311
Lives for gear
Can I bypass the preamps in the Motu 1248? I want to connect a Mike E Channel strip. If so, how is the best way to do this? (For vocal tracking)
Old 19th March 2015
  #1312
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by javajunkie View Post
Screenshot wouldn't really help here. Everything looks right but the signal from the routing tab when it gets to the mixer. I will probably just talk to support because it is easier to describe verbally.

But I will give you an example,

From the Routing Page, if I route From Computer 1 and From Computer 2(Input - From Computer USB section) to in 33 and in 34 (Out - Mix In Section) everything looks right and when I playback my daw I can the the blue signal lights flickering on both the in and out.

When I go to the Mixing page and go to the "In 33 - From Computer 2" (stereo mode), I have no signal coming to the channel. It was configured and working before.

I even tried opening the Routing button on the Channel and I see the signal lighting up on the "From Computer 1-2" selection, but it appears it it not actually getting into the mixer channel. It is not muted and the levels are up.

Another example,
A signal that is routed to Mixer channels 3 and 4 are actually coming in through mixer channels 35-36. I am attaching a screenshot of that. Even though it show signal coming from Analog-Axe-fx XL main and no signal from "From Computer 3-4", Computer 3-4 is selected and you can the signal meters are showing a signal in the Slider area.
After some investigation, it appears my mixer inputs are offset by 32 Channels.
If I route a signal to mixer channel
In 1 it goes to In 32 in the Mixing page
In 2 goes to In 33
In 3 goes to 34
etc.

I am using 32 out 64 of channels in the computer section of the device page. I also have 2 AVB streams from a 16A setup. All Firmware is up to the 1.2.548 version.
Old 19th March 2015
  #1313
Here for the gear
 

I noticed some weirdness with my routing after the firmware update and after an hour of troubleshooting I defaulted to factory settings. Thankfully everything started working again. Hope this helps someone.
Old 19th March 2015
  #1314
Ordered one!! And now we play the waiting game...
Old 19th March 2015
  #1315
Gear Addict
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
Ordered one!! And now we play the waiting game...
Did you get a 1248 or a 16A?
Old 19th March 2015
  #1316
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamestalus View Post
Did you get a 1248 or a 16A?
16a. Took a lot of soul searching. Very stoked
Old 19th March 2015
  #1317
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krush411 View Post
Can I bypass the preamps in the Motu 1248? I want to connect a Mike E Channel strip. If so, how is the best way to do this? (For vocal tracking)
I don't own one, but I'm pretty sure if you plug your Mike-E into any of the 1/4" inputs on the 1248, it shouldn't be going through the mic pres, just the line stage.
Old 19th March 2015
  #1318
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I recently installed a 1248 and 8M. They are pretty much working beautifully, but the 8M is getting into a state where I cannot enable phantom power.

Touch the 48V button, either on the physical front panel or on the web interface, and the red light won't turn on.

Mics that don't need phantom power do work, but phantom-requiring mics don't.

The problem did seem to go away briefly after updating to 1.20, but then upon restart this morning of my system the problem was back.

The 1248 in the system, though, is not having a problem with offering phantom power.

Any ideas what could be causing this? Been scouring the manual and haven't seen anything.
Old 19th March 2015
  #1319
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bduke View Post
I noticed some weirdness with my routing after the firmware update and after an hour of troubleshooting I defaulted to factory settings. Thankfully everything started working again. Hope this helps someone.
I can probably export my settings then reimport after defaulting to factory.
Old 19th March 2015
  #1320
I've gone through three or four updates now and have just learned to memorize all my settings. There's a way to save in the web app, but it doesn't seem to work for me.
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