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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 21st February 2015
  #1171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sijon View Post
The Web GUI allows for creating pre-sets in addition to the ones provided such as "Audio Interface, Stage I/O, etc." However, every attempt to save an existing pre-set or create a new one generates an error message:

"Error message received from server: argument must be json (Code 400)"

Any idea what this means?
We've got a bug on Windows when forwarding the web app over USB. We're working on a fix, but it prevents you from saving presets currently. The workaround right now would be to connect directly to it via ethernet in addition to USB. You can then access the interface via its IP address (obtainable by pressing the ID button on the front of the interface) or .local address (e.g. http://16a.local/ by default).

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud.ret View Post
Hi guys,

I really love my 16a but I have a problem,it's impossible for me to upgrade the firmware, the device tab doesn't see the 16 a when connected via ethernet port.

any users met the problem?
The address you access the web app at is different if you're access over USB/Thunderbolt vs ethernet. If your address is currently something like "http://localhost:1280" that means you're trying to access it over Thunderbolt or USB.

Are you on a Mac or PC? If on a Mac, use the Discovery app to access the interface's web app and that will choose the ethernet address (even if both are connected). If that doesn't work for some reason or you're on a PC, you'll need to find the IP address on the front of the box with the ID button or try the device's .local address (http://16a.local/ unless you've changed the interface's name).
Old 22nd February 2015
  #1172
Lives for gear
A question for Mr Miller,or anyone else with something in the ABV line...

I have a Mackie Control Universal - can the digital mixer be controlled by MCU protocol?

I couldn't see anything in any of the documentation - there are simply the UI screens for the mixer web app, which is nice, but using my controller would be a really nice option...I know the old Cue Mix system could be controlled by MCU, so hoping the new system can be too.
Old 22nd February 2015
  #1173
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Are you on a Mac or PC? If on a Mac, use the Discovery app to access the interface's web app and that will choose the ethernet address (even if both are connected). If that doesn't work for some reason or you're on a PC, you'll need to find the IP address on the front of the box with the ID button or try the device's .local address (http://16a.local/ unless you've changed the interface's name).
Hi mrmiller and thanks for the answer.
I'm on a mac with thunderbolt.
when I try to launch the discovery app nothing happened.
I tried (http://16a.local/192.168.0.135) the ip adress i find when i press id, but nothing happend too.
Old 22nd February 2015
  #1174
Gear Maniac
 
not like this's Avatar
 

Hello, I currently own a 1248 and I'm considering adding an 8M.

My 1248 is connected via Thunderbolt and I used a Netgear Ethernet to Wifi dongle to connect it to my wireless network.

If I get a second unit, would I:

A.) Connect the units together via Ethernet (thus removing the netgear)

B.) Connect each device to it's own Thunderbolt port on my computer (it has two).

If I choose option A, would I still be able to access the mixer on other network attached devices?
Old 22nd February 2015
  #1175
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzfilth View Post
Hi there.

MOTU 8M AVB FW1.1.4+923 over USB on a MacBook Pro 4.1 OSX 10.10 (MacPro on 10.9 yields same results)

- When connected to the Mac via USB, the 8M switches sample rate from 44.1k to 192k and back by itself during powerup.
I checked more in detail and found the following:

All of these cause the sample rate to switch 44.1 > 192 > 44.1 and the temporary disabling of higher channels and their DSP:

- Powering up the 8M when connected to a powered up Mac
- Connecting the 8M to a powered up Mac
- Powering up the Mac when connected to a powered up 8M
- Restarting the Mac when connected to a powered up 8M

However, of all these, only

- Powering up the 8M when connected to a powered up Mac

results in the DSP remaining disabled after the switch.

So, powering up the 8M before the Mac seems a viable fix for the time being.

Christian
Old 22nd February 2015
  #1176
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud.ret View Post
Hi mrmiller and thanks for the answer.
I'm on a mac with thunderbolt.
when I try to launch the discovery app nothing happened.
I tried (http://16a.local/192.168.0.135) the ip adress i find when i press id, but nothing happend too.
Ah, there's your issue! You've combined the two possible addresses into one. The address you should use is either http://16a.local/ or http://192.168.0.135/.
Old 22nd February 2015
  #1177
Here for the gear
So I was all set to buy the Ultralight AVB (and do a review for my site) when I noticed a few items that concern me... 1) Why is it using the older Converters and not the new ones that the rest of the AVB line uses?
2) I see no mention of latency numbers for this (and it lacks thunderbolt so I can't take the other numbers as a possibility)

any thoughts on this. sure the previous DAC was great... but why not put in the latest greatest as the others have done.
Old 23rd February 2015
  #1178
Quote:
Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave View Post
A question for Mr Miller,or anyone else with something in the ABV line...

I have a Mackie Control Universal - can the digital mixer be controlled by MCU protocol?

I couldn't see anything in any of the documentation - there are simply the UI screens for the mixer web app, which is nice, but using my controller would be a really nice option...I know the old Cue Mix system could be controlled by MCU, so hoping the new system can be too.
Not directly, no. You might be able to build a setup that converts some of the MIDI data to OSC messages and use that to control the interface. It might be a fairly involved project though, especially if you need the full feature set and not just a few faders with static mappings.
Old 23rd February 2015
  #1179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux302 View Post
So I was all set to buy the Ultralight AVB (and do a review for my site) when I noticed a few items that concern me... 1) Why is it using the older Converters and not the new ones that the rest of the AVB line uses?
2) I see no mention of latency numbers for this (and it lacks thunderbolt so I can't take the other numbers as a possibility)

any thoughts on this. sure the previous DAC was great... but why not put in the latest greatest as the others have done.
The UltraLite AVB is an entry level device with the possibility of expansion via AVB. We needed the price to reflect that. It's the least expensive in the line by far at $650, less than half the price of the 1248 ($1500) and two thirds the price of the USB-only 24Ao ($1000). Hitting that price point meant hard choices on features. The analog section is still improved over its predecessor the UltraLite mk3 Hybrid but it's not quite as pristine as the other interfaces in the AVB line.

As for latency, the software and drivers are the same as the rest of the AVB line. The only difference in latency is due to the converters, so you're looking at roundtrips in the same ballpark as the other interfaces over USB or AVB.
Old 23rd February 2015
  #1180
Here for the gear
thats a shame to hear as it was mostly the form factor and portability that draws me to the ultralight while hopefully maintaining the industry leading sound of the A larger units. given the new converters are what, $12 a chip kinda disappointing. I guess I will have to find a way to A/B the Ultralight vs a 1248....
Thanks for the honest response.
Old 23rd February 2015
  #1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux302 View Post
thats a shame to hear as it was mostly the form factor and portability that draws me to the ultralight while hopefully maintaining the industry leading sound of the A larger units. given the new converters are what, $12 a chip kinda disappointing. I guess I will have to find a way to A/B the Ultralight vs a 1248....
Thanks for the honest response.
Its not disappointing, its business. The price point of these converters is unreal considering the quality and chips inside. If the absolute lowest interface shared all the specs, where is the value in the higher ones? Why not buy three Ultralights and have way more channels and features for only a few bucks more than a 16a? There's more than just the conversion that sells these interfaces, its all of the new software and connection involved.
Old 23rd February 2015
  #1182
Here for the gear
I watched with anticipation for windows drivers as I have had it with firewire. When it works it is great, the issue is it decides not to work at the worst possible moments. Enter the MOTU AVB line , I gandered for a minute at the Thunderbolt equipped Clarett line coming down the pipe from Focusrite but lack of USB was the killer. I decided for my situation the 8M would be best although the 1248 was a close second. It arrived two days ago and I got things going yesterday. A firmware update is required for windows to even see the device on USB and as mentioned, instructions on getting the web application to discover the device was not working. I was able to put the device IP address into the ap address bar, so not that big a deal, but took a minute to figure out. Installation went smoothly and I was pleased to see an ADAT/TOSlink option, very nice. After playing the the router and mixer for a few minutes I was able to send signals wherever I needed to. I noticed that I had to increase buffer size or I would get the clicks and pops of an unhappy system. Latency doesn't seem to be an issue at this point, but I'm not using any DSP.

I fired up my DAW and decided to see how it sounded. I recorded my Mason & Hamlin CC2 with a matched pair of Rode NT45-0's. While not even being close to being dialed in I was entirely impressed, it was easily the best sounding recording of this piano yet. The bass was full and warm, the mids crisp and clear with perhaps a bit too much sparkle in the treble. This was very revealing as it showed the weakness in mic placement and the room (which needs a bit a treatment to tone down). Now I knew about this issue but what a confirmation, in fact it might be a bit too honest. It will take a bit of time to get things sorted out but I'm very happy with a super upgrade of both pre-amps and converters. For a small project studio or heart of a touring rig it has some serious horsepower. Now all I want is thunderbolt support and just for fun I would love to see LINUX drivers for USB.
Old 23rd February 2015
  #1183
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post

As for latency, the software and drivers are the same as the rest of the AVB line. The only difference in latency is due to the converters, so you're looking at roundtrips in the same ballpark as the other interfaces over USB or AVB.
The last I heard we are still at 24 channels of I/O on the USB for windows, is that correct? If so, is that at 44.1, 48, 96, 192?

And when you get the drivers to support 32 on USB, what sample rate will that be for?

And I'm +1000 for either TB or AVB support for PC...even if it's a third party card or two that MOTU wants to endorse...people will buy it.

Thanks!
Old 23rd February 2015
  #1184
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian8377 View Post
The last I heard we are still at 24 channels of I/O on the USB for windows, is that correct? If so, is that at 44.1, 48, 96, 192?

And when you get the drivers to support 32 on USB, what sample rate will that be for?

And I'm +1000 for either TB or AVB support for PC...even if it's a third party card or two that MOTU wants to endorse...people will buy it.

Thanks!
Yes 24 I/O for USB for the moment. For me TB or AVB support for PC is no option because I do live recordings with a notebook, so it has no TB nor AVB-Compatible Networkcart - and it is not possible to upgrade the notebook. so I'm waiting for 32 Channels per USB.
Old 23rd February 2015
  #1185
Lives for gear
 

today I am using a MOTU HD192 and 308 for digital connections - all clocked by an Antelope clock (Isochrone OCX).

Is the sound quality of the new MOTU 8M at least equal or better than the HD192 ???
If yes, I am considering to move to the 8M and 111D (although missing SPDIF connections)
Old 23rd February 2015
  #1186
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Ah, there's your issue! You've combined the two possible addresses into one. The address you should use is either http://16a.local/ or http://192.168.0.135/.
Quote
Thanks for the answer ,but i always have page can't be Found on my browser.
Old 23rd February 2015
  #1187
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud.ret View Post
Thanks for the answer ,but i always have page can't be Found on my browser.
Since you're on a Mac, does it show up in the AVB Discovery app in your menu bar? You might have to launch it from /Applications if it's not running. That's the easiest way to access it and should be consistent regardless of how you're connected to the interface.
Old 23rd February 2015
  #1188
Here for the gear
 

When I try to run it from application, nothing happened on the screen. Maybe something to réinstall?

i use the last driver but the first firmware, is it possible it causes trouble?
Old 23rd February 2015
  #1189
Lives for gear
 
JayTee4303's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robby in WA View Post
In the manual, the only way I've found to update the drivers is to plug an ethernet cord in. When you're using that port to connect another unit - it's a PITA to get into the back of the rack and connect the router to each unit. For future reference, isn't there some way to download the update and send it to the units via Thunderbolt - via each units I.P.?

After updating, several of my settings (sample rate/AVB stream routing) were lost. Be sure to save first.

I don't want to open a huge can of worms, but is there an optimal sample rate for these units? - I'm running @88.2k. When I lost my settings it went to 48k.

After updating, on a nMP, running DP8, I had several crashes within a simple project. It finally seemed to stabilize.

Totally unrelated to the interfaces, but maybe someone can help me w/a DP8 issue that's driving me nuts. I switched from a T.V. to a Apple Cinema Display for my main monitor. Every time I open a consolidated window it comes up too small and I have to resize it to fill the screen. Previously DP8 would remember what size I left it and they would reopen that size. Any way to fix this?


A semi slutty pic, these things get hot - give them room to breathe.


How much trouble was it to mount the Avalon and UA-710 in same rack space?
Old 23rd February 2015
  #1190
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayTee4303 View Post
How much trouble was it to mount the Avalon and UA-710 in same rack space?

The U5 just sits on the 4710. It's not mounted, it gets moved to the tracking room frequently.


--- I'm still getting crashes in DP8 since I installed the new firmware.
Old 24th February 2015
  #1191
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
Its not disappointing, its business. The price point of these converters is unreal considering the quality and chips inside. If the absolute lowest interface shared all the specs, where is the value in the higher ones? Why not buy three Ultralights and have way more channels and features for only a few bucks more than a 16a? There's more than just the conversion that sells these interfaces, its all of the new software and connection involved.
I am not saying it need be the same price, I would gladly have paid more for the ultralight form factor with it being 100% the same quality of 1248 ... its not the price that irks me .... I liked the form factor (I record in various spaces often and the 1248 will just be a bit more of a pain.) oh well....
Old 24th February 2015
  #1192
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beau_mckee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux302 View Post
I am not saying it need be the same price, I would gladly have paid more for the ultralight form factor with it being 100% the same quality of 1248 ... its not the price that irks me .... I liked the form factor (I record in various spaces often and the 1248 will just be a bit more of a pain.) oh well....
I feel the same way but for different reasons. I envisaged an ultralight with high end A/D and thunderbolt (maybe a pro version coming soon??) I would like to imagine converting at the live room and\the vocal booth. With a booth it will allow a headphone send mix and a a couple of mics down long cable runs of Ethernet and a studio that can utilize many spaces with ease. An Ultralite pro would also be perfect in a control room designed as a main monitoring and central nerve thunderbolt in for the network whilst the 8m's, 24Io and 16As can take care of the live room applications into the ultralight connection.

Last edited by beau_mckee; 24th February 2015 at 03:48 PM..
Old 24th February 2015
  #1193
rlg
Gear Maniac
 
rlg's Avatar
 

Quote:
I am not saying it need be the same price, I would gladly have paid more for the ultralight form factor with it being 100% the same quality of 1248 ... its not the price that irks me .... I liked the form factor (I record in various spaces often and the 1248 will just be a bit more of a pain.) oh well....
Quote:
I feel the same way but for different reasons. I envisaged an ultralight with high end A/D and thunderbolt (maybe a pro version coming soon??) I would like to imagine converting at the live room and\the vocal booth. With a booth it will allow a headphone send mix and a a couple of mics down long cable runs of Ethernet and a studio that can utilize many spaces with ease. An Ultralite pro would also be perfect in a control room designed as a main monitoring and central nerve thunderbolt in for the network whilst the 8m's, 24Io and 16As can take care of the live room applications into the ultralight connection.
+1 and +1

The whole MOTU AVB concept has already been a real game changer for me. As I've noted previously in this thread, we're working on a collaborative project where each musician has a 1248 to allow working out tracks and recording both in my studio and/or in each musician's personal spaces, and connecting everyone in the studio (and, eventually, stage) is simply a matter of plugging in single ethernet cables and having instant streams to the control room, FOH, and everyone's personal monitors, which they can control themselves. The routing is a bit of a headache at first, but the flexibility is fantastic.

But the Ultralite is a much better form factor than the 1248, and the i/o of each 1248 is simply overkill for use as individual musician send-receive-record-listen "pods". My perfect product would be an Ultralite "pro" as discussed above. Same audio guts as the 1248, same audio i/o as the Ultralite, same AVB streams in/out as the bigger units, add Thunderbolt and ditch the MIDI. Price it at the 24ai/o level and it would be perfect.

I just bought an Ultralite AVB to check it out, and it won't work for my purposes. Beyond the lower audio quality (though it's not bad), the lack of Thunderbolt kills it for me -- I found that using the USB for audio interfacing gets unstable for me at low buffer sizes, but raising the buffers brings me to a point where I'm not entirely comfortable with the latency (having been spoiled by the absolutely fantastic latency in the thunderbolt boxes). I can connect the interface to my computer directly via AVB ethernet, which appears to alleviate the stability and latency issues, but then I lose the AVB streaming functionality, which for me is the key feature of these boxes.

Again, an Ultralite AVB Thunderbolt Pro would be really compelling for me. Until such a product materializes, however, we'll just have to get along with our growing collection of 1248s.

Last edited by rlg; 24th February 2015 at 06:00 PM.. Reason: fixed typos
Old 24th February 2015
  #1194
Gear Maniac
 
Rigg's Avatar
 

Here are some quotes from people wanting a control room interface from this thread:

MOTU ships two new audio interfaces: the 24Ai and 24Ao


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alej View Post
Would really love them to put out another avb unit, but very compact and portable. like a duet size or smaller, monitor controller, headphone output, thunderbolt, 2analog ins 2analog outs and an ethernet connection to scale up with any of the big ones: 16A, 1248, 8M, etc

For taking on the road and that you can connect back in your studio with the rest of your avb system as a monitor controller.

Please!!! This + a 16A would be my perfect team..
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiker View Post
Agreed! To be more specific, I'd love a thunderbolt/USB/ethernet, 2 XLR in, 2 pairs TRS out (for 2 sets of monitors) + headphone out, with volume knobs for each. Then you can run the big interfaces in the live room/on the stage, and all you need in the control room is this sexy little box with just an ethernet cable inbetween. That would be lovely!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiker View Post
Some other features I'd like to see - dim and mono switch for outputs, an output selector (a/b/both), and a talkback button for at least one of the inputs (which can be disabled when using the device as a 2ch interface per Alej's request). This would be a such a great addition to these new AVB products!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigg View Post
I like the ideas suggested so far in this thread for a control room interface. I was about to post a suggestion for the same thing in the big thread when I came across this and realized somebody beat me to it. In addition to the monitor control, talkback, headphone, and spdif features already mentioned I think it would be cool if this device also functioned as an AVB switch with multiple network outputs. Some auxiliary analog inputs for the monitor/headphone section would be cool to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Depressionman View Post
Yeah control room interface would nail it.NAIL IT NAIL IT NAIL IT...........!!!!!!
I actually think the ultralite AVB is an awesome addition to the line and covers the needs for this type of interface in a lot of situations. That being said I think the need is still there for a more high end control room interface. Don't get me wrong I think this entire line of interfaces is really, really good. I just feel like the 3 flagship interfaces have features I would be paying for that I wouldn't use as a 2nd interface. As an example if I were to buy a 1248 and use it as my control room/front of house interface I would feel like I was paying for 8 x 6 channels of conversion that I wouldn't use. I would rather have talkback and avb switch functionality myself. I get where people are saying when they like the small form factor of the ultralite but I cant see all the features I would like fitting in a half rack unit.
Old 24th February 2015
  #1195
Gear Maniac
 
Rigg's Avatar
 

While we are at it I would love to see an 8 channel mic pre with analog outs, adat/smux outputs, wordclock I/O, and an Ethernet port just for controlling the preamp over the network. Essentially you're typical adat preamp with network control. No interface capabilities or D/A to bring the cost up. The AVB line is screaming for an affordable way to add remote control mic pres.
Old 24th February 2015
  #1196
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
Interesting. So the Symphony & 1248/16A both use the Sabre 32 DACs and 5381 ADC's, both have DC coupled outputs, both test extremely clean, and audio files passed through them phase cancel against each other to a level of -77dB as a few users have noted.

Given the above and all the functionality of them, these units appear to be untouchable anywhere near their price range. This is a higher grade of build/components than used in the new Ensemble.

But the 1248 has four less preamps than the Ensemble... so that's not really comparing apple to apples when you talk about the price range.

Meanwhile the 8m has the same amount of preamps as the Ensemble, but it has inferior preamp chips to it cousins (1248 and 16a). Not sure what kind of chips the Ensemble has.
Old 24th February 2015
  #1197
nms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikoli View Post
But the 1248 has four less preamps than the Ensemble... so that's not really comparing apple to apples when you talk about the price range.

Meanwhile the 8m has the same amount of preamps as the Ensemble, but it has inferior preamp chips to it cousins (1248 and 16a). Not sure what kind of chips the Ensemble has.
Most people won't ever use/need more though. The only time I ever use onboard preamps is measuring room acoustics. If you need more preamps and don't want to add better dedicated pre's then yes your options are more limited. Personally I would recommend picking up a lunch box and some CAPI pres for a much better end result though.
Old 24th February 2015
  #1198
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
Most people won't ever use/need more though. The only time I ever use onboard preamps is measuring room acoustics. If you need more preamps and don't want to add better dedicated pre's then yes your options are more limited. Personally I would recommend picking up a lunch box and some CAPI pres for a much better end result though.

For someone who seems to be incredibly stats-oriented, I am surprised you would make such an unfounded claim.

Why on earth would Apogee make the Ensemble with eight preamps if "most people won't ever use/need more" than four?

And why would Motu make the 8m with 8 preamps if 'most people won't ever use/need more" than four?

Your claim doesn't make sense man.

As for your recommendation... context matters. You were talking about the the amazing advantage in price with the 1248. Well... it's obviously not as big of an advantage as it would seem due to lacking preamps. Now you're recommending spending more money on gear to make up the difference. All the sudden that $1k dollar gap between the Apogee Ensemble and the Motu 1248 lessens a bit.
Old 25th February 2015
  #1199
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
You don't think the 1248 will outsell the 8M? I do. Easily. I stand by my statement, most people buying audio interfaces these days won't need more than 4 preamps and would rather their dollars go toward conversion quality.
You speculation is not relevant and you have no data to substantiate your claim.

Now we can only speculate why you're even making that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
Sure, it lessens and you end up with better conversion, windows drivers, AVB, and a lunchbox with a few extra preamps that are better than the onboard preamps used in either unit and increase your palette of available flavors.

Custom Analog Services • Catalog
More unsubstantiated claims on your part.

Personally I like the windows drivers and AVB option. Those are valid differentiators. When we're making dollar for dollar claims, like you made, you don't then add additional gear in to the equation with the assumption that the additional gear is both better and still within the relative price category of your original claim.

It's funny because your logic dictates that the 8m, 1248 and the Ensemble are relatively worthless products given the availability of the 16a. I mean, most people don't need preamps anyway, right? Lol spare me from your opinions, please.

Fortunately it seems the manufacturers know what people want. Target markets and such. You seem really narrowly focused on what's important to you.
Old 25th February 2015
  #1200
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicsound-2 View Post
today I am using a MOTU HD192 and 308 for digital connections - all clocked by an Antelope clock (Isochrone OCX).

Is the sound quality of the new MOTU 8M at least equal or better than the HD192 ???
If yes, I am considering to move to the 8M and 111D (although missing SPDIF connections)
this please.. I have the motu HD192 as well .. I cant imagine that the there would not be an improvement .. but would LOVE an official word on this
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