The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 6th February 2015
  #1111
Here for the gear
Hi everybody. I read this thread for a while and I recently pulled the trigger on a 16A and 24Ao. I needed 16 analog inputs and 48 analog outputs. The 16A+24Ao pack was the better choice for me for severals reasons : thunderbolt (I use a iMac with TB), the audio quality (according to all feedbacks, I'll confirme - or not - when my setup is ready to run) and the price (€2450).

I made some tests yesterday :

1- 16A as audio interface. GREAT ! Everything works fine, the web app is a incredible tool ! There is some fonctionality I don't get for the moment, like the avb stream. I'll talk about this later. The routing system is clear, full of funky tricks to help user to create the perfect matrix. Didn't focus on audio quality for the moment but my loop test was just transparent to me... Only noticed a difference of -4,7dBfs between output and input (digital trims at 0).

2- 24Ao as audio interface. Very same feeling than with the 16A.

3- 16A as audio interface + 24Ao as output expander (via a simple Cat5 cable between the units) : Here's the point. I have to say than I'm running the 16A over usb for the moment (waiting for my TB cable to arrive), so maybe there's a limitation in the number of channels available. I just can't get my 40 analog outputs, I only have access to 16A analog ins and outs in PT10... The web app see both units and I can enter both units settings. I don't really understand the way the avb stream works. It seems to enable/disable streams by pack of 8 channels (outputs ? inputs ? both ?). I tried to tweak avb streams settings with no success.

mrmiller, any suggestion ?
Old 6th February 2015
  #1112
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobywane View Post
3- 16A as audio interface + 24Ao as output expander (via a simple Cat5 cable between the units) : Here's the point. I have to say than I'm running the 16A over usb for the moment (waiting for my TB cable to arrive), so maybe there's a limitation in the number of channels available. I just can't get my 40 analog outputs, I only have access to 16A analog ins and outs in PT10... The web app see both units and I can enter both units settings. I don't really understand the way the avb stream works. It seems to enable/disable streams by pack of 8 channels (outputs ? inputs ? both ?). I tried to tweak avb streams settings with no success.

mrmiller, any suggestion ?
So far as I understand things from the FAQ...

MOTU.com - MOTU AVB FAQ 7

What you have set up should work up to the limit of the USB connection (I think) which based on here is 24 channels in and out.

MOTU.com - MOTU AVB FAQ 3

So you should at least be able to assign one block of 8 outputs from your 24Ao to your matrix, and use these in PT alongside the 16 outs of the 16A (24 outs total), but from what you say that is not happening?

The only other thing to check is the documentation states Cat 5e, and you state Cat5, but that should not make a difference, as other Motu AVB documentation notes standard Cat5 should be ok.

The Web App detects both devices and you can route them? I'd try routing a single block of 8 outs of the 24Ao in the matrix and see if they show up in PT.

I'm interested to know if this works, as being on Windows, I will be stuck on USB for some time when I get the Monitor 8 and I want to expand later to get the full 24x24.

That said, I'm hoping by the time I expand Windows will have Thunderbolt, USB 3.1 or even direct AVB Ethernet support!!
Old 6th February 2015
  #1113
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiohammer View Post
MrMiller,

Why is MAC OS 10.10 and higher required for a MOTU AVB Ethernet connection to the MAC ?
What changed with the Apple AVB support from 10.9 Mavericks to 10.10 that is required for the connection to operate?

Thanks!
This is keeping me from making a purchase.
Old 6th February 2015
  #1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave View Post
So you should at least be able to assign one block of 8 outputs from your 24Ao to your matrix, and use these in PT alongside the 16 outs of the 16A (24 outs total), but from what you say that is not happening?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobywane View Post
3- 16A as audio interface + 24Ao as output expander (via a simple Cat5 cable between the units) : Here's the point. I have to say than I'm running the 16A over usb for the moment (waiting for my TB cable to arrive), so maybe there's a limitation in the number of channels available. I just can't get my 40 analog outputs, I only have access to 16A analog ins and outs in PT10... The web app see both units and I can enter both units settings. I don't really understand the way the avb stream works. It seems to enable/disable streams by pack of 8 channels (outputs ? inputs ? both ?). I tried to tweak avb streams settings with no success.

mrmiller, any suggestion ?
As you noticed, the routing is pretty abstract. Since only the 16A is connected directly to your computer, Core Audio, Pro Tools et al. are only going to see the 16A. It serves as the gateway to your AVB network with the 24Ao. It's up to you to route channels from the computer to the 24Ao's output via AVB streams.

Those 24 ins and 24 outs (via USB currently)? You can route them however you want, including to the 24Ao. In your case, you may want to route 16 channels to the 16A's analog outs and then 8 channels to an AVB stream that the 24Ao is listening to. You can set up AVB streams in the Device tab for each interface. Once you've set up an AVB stream, it will show up in the Routing tab and you can route to and from it just like any other source or destination. Each AVB stream carries 8 audio channels. Check out MOTU.com - AVB Routing Tab for more detail, specifically Common Routing Examples > Sending Signal to AVB Streams.
Old 6th February 2015
  #1115
Here for the gear
Thank you gollumsluvslave and mrmiller.

I'll try again with the thunderbolt cable in few days. And if it works fine I'll try through usb and let you know how it goes gollumsluvslave.
Old 6th February 2015
  #1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGPS View Post
1. if I have 2 AVB Interfaces connected with an ethernet cable /AVB switch, can I connect each Interface with USB to 2 Computers (WIN) and record the same channels? This would be a great Backup-Use on Liverecordings.
Yup, sure can! The AVB network is independent of however the interface is connected to the computer. In fact, you can even connect a single interface to two computers via USB/TB and AVB to a Mac running OS X 10.10+.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGPS View Post
2. if I have 2 AVB Interfaces connected with an ethernet cable /AVB switch, do I have 2 Mixers? one per interface? or is the DSP-Power summed?
One per interface, but you can route tracks to and from each interface freely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by galoz View Post
Soo with higher sampling rates in-out channels are reduced?
Mixer channels and DSP are indeed reduces at 2x and 4x rates. The higher the sampling rate, the more audio it needs to process per second. Unfortunately, our DSP, like your CPU, can only handle so much processing in that time window. See MOTU.com - MOTU AVB FAQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiohammer View Post
Why is MAC OS 10.10 and higher required for a MOTU AVB Ethernet connection to the MAC ?
What changed with the Apple AVB support from 10.9 Mavericks to 10.10 that is required for the connection to operate?
In short, Apple's AVB driver improved. We worked with Apple to ensure spec compliance and compatibility. As well, when 10.9 came out, parts of the core spec like device discovery were just being finalized. You're welcome to try with 10.9 and it can kinda work, but we don't recommend or support it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by balijon View Post
mrmiller are the DA outputs protected against accidental Phantom power from a console input?
I don't know but I'll check and get back to you.
Old 6th February 2015
  #1117
Here for the gear
btw, I confirme than those units (16A and 24Ao) heats a lot !!! I guest they NEED to be spaced from other gear by 1U at least. Nothing insurmontable but I think it's important to know before purchasing if you're out of rack space for example.
Old 6th February 2015
  #1118
Gear Head
 

Mrmiller thanks for your dedication!!
Old 6th February 2015
  #1119
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
YMixer channels and DSP are indeed reduces at 2x and 4x rates. The higher the sampling rate, the more audio it needs to process per second. Unfortunately, our DSP, like your CPU, can only handle so much processing in that time window. See MOTU.com - MOTU AVB FAQ.
Ive read the link, but couldn't find how many stereo aux i can have with 1x (48khz) and connected with USB, using all 16 analog in

Thanks
Old 6th February 2015
  #1120
Quote:
Originally Posted by galoz View Post
Ive read the link, but couldn't find how many stereo aux i can have with 1x (48khz) and connected with USB, using all 16 analog in
At 1x, there are 7 stereo aux busses and 3 groups available.
Old 6th February 2015
  #1121
Gear Addict
 
rob61's Avatar
 

Mr. Miller... any idea how I can get older Pro Tools session to open that were done at 48KHz? The 44.1KHz ones open, but even if I set the 16a to 48KHz (internal clock), Pro Tools wants me to use its dialog saying the sample rate and clock need to be set. It then provides me the link, but only to the audio control panel, and not the (now necessary) AVB WebUI setup. Since I can't set from within Pro Tools, it will not open the session and shuts down. Any ideas of what I could try?
Old 6th February 2015
  #1122
Quote:
Originally Posted by balijon View Post
mrmiller are the DA outputs protected against accidental Phantom power from a console input?
Your interface will survive but while the phantom power is active, you're going to have a DC offset and distortion. Obviously, you shouldn't run with phantom power into the box but if you have it on by accident, it won't do permanent damage.
Old 6th February 2015
  #1123
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
At 1x, there are 7 stereo aux busses and 3 groups available.
Old 6th February 2015
  #1124
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob61 View Post
Mr. Miller... any idea how I can get older Pro Tools session to open that were done at 48KHz? The 44.1KHz ones open, but even if I set the 16a to 48KHz (internal clock), Pro Tools wants me to use its dialog saying the sample rate and clock need to be set. It then provides me the link, but only to the audio control panel, and not the (now necessary) AVB WebUI setup. Since I can't set from within Pro Tools, it will not open the session and shuts down. Any ideas of what I could try?
We're going to try reproducing this on our end and see what we can dig up. Two questions: is your 16A set as the Windows default sound device? If so, try disabling the interface there. Can you create new sessions at 48khz?
Old 6th February 2015
  #1125
Here for the gear
OK I've just finished new tests and everything runs perfect !

My mistakes was both in AVB stream connection (DEVICE) section and in the Routing section.

For those who are in the same situation : I had to activate 1 out of 16 AVB output stream in the 16A device setup (1 stream = 8 channels and it's enough here because I run it over usb...). In the 24Ao device setup I had to activate 1 out of 8 INPUT stream... Didn't sound logical to me but that was the trick. Select your main device (16A here) in the AVB stream connection section and route it from the Routing section.

For the 24Ao, route the stream input called "16A:1" (=1 out of 16 AVB output stream in the 16A device setup) to the analog outputs.
For the 16A, route the "from computer" 17 to 24 inputs to the AVB Stream 1 output (=24Ao stream).

End of the story, I now have 16 inputs and 24 outputs. Now I wait for my thunderbolt cable to have my 40 outputs !

cheers
Old 6th February 2015
  #1126
Gear Addict
 
rob61's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
We're going to try reproducing this on our end and see what we can dig up. Two questions: is your 16A set as the Windows default sound device? If so, try disabling the interface there. Can you create new sessions at 48khz?
I was able to create a new session at 48KHz. It did ask me to restart PT, but then it let me create/save/run. Perhaps something else is going on... The sessions were recorded at another studio (and opened/played). I can open them, sometimes having to restart depending on the original sample rate. But once open, I reassign all I/O to the 16a device. However, when I hit play or click the play button, it just sits, nothing plays, as if its not getting a clock. I've set the 16a clock to internal (don't think they used an external clock, but it was Digidesign/Avid HD hardware interface).

I tried "exporting" the session, but still no success. The sessions will open (after being re-saved), but will not playback through the 16a for whatever reason. It just sits, the curson doesn't move. I did turn off the 16a as the Windows default sound device. No change.
Old 7th February 2015
  #1127
16A test recording


I hadn't found any examples of the 16A.


I tracked that at 96Kz. 32 buffers in Logic. I think there might be a click or two in the guitar track (perhaps due to buffer size) or it might be my wrist clicking. I have it running via thunderbolt.

Acoustic Taylor Mahogany Mini Mic'd with KM84 into VP28 Preamp.

Vocal Neumann U87 into BAE 1073DMP into Drip STA level

nothing on mix down except pan and level. The verb is a touch of Dark Plate via Valhalla Vintage Verb.

So far I really think the 16A is quite a piece of gear.

Acoustic guitar and vocals, is always what I look for in tests, so I hope someone finds this helpful one way or the other.

cheers

Wiz

** note, when I first uploaded this, I had put the wrong link in, I have a version with outboard comp and EQ going, I apologise, I think only about 10 plays would have been misrepresented.. again apologies....***

Last edited by Wiz_Oz; 7th February 2015 at 01:43 AM..
Old 7th February 2015
  #1128
Gear Maniac
Can't find too many reviews yet, anybody willing to share their experience? I am thinking about getting the 16A or a older Mytek AD 96khz stereo converter for mastering. Anybody used both and can chime in if the newer Motus have caught up to the older mytek gear?
Old 8th February 2015
  #1129
Gear Maniac
 
Rigg's Avatar
 

Wow. I really like the features of these new interfaces. I'm also very impressed with the direct communication from MOTU. Hat's off to you Mr. Miller.

Say I have 2 of these interfaces each connected to its own computer via usb/t-bolt then I link the interfaces with AVB. Can I record whatever audio inputs I want (obviously no more than 24 with usb) from either interface on both computers at the same time for redundancy?
Old 8th February 2015
  #1130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigg View Post
Wow. I really like the features of these new interfaces. I'm also very impressed with the direct communication from MOTU. Hat's off to you Mr. Miller.

Say I have 2 of these interfaces each connected to its own computer via usb/t-bolt then I link the interfaces with AVB. Can I record whatever audio inputs I want (obviously no more than 24 with usb) from either interface on both computers at the same time for redundancy?
Yes. You can even record to two machines from one interface if at least one machine is AVB capable.
Old 8th February 2015
  #1131
Gear Maniac
 
CharlesEdward3rd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobywane View Post
Hi everybody. I read this thread for a while and I recently pulled the trigger on a 16A and 24Ao. I needed 16 analog inputs and 48 analog outputs. The 16A+24Ao pack was the better choice for me for severals reasons : thunderbolt (I use a iMac with TB), the audio quality (according to all feedbacks, I'll confirme - or not - when my setup is ready to run) and the price (€2450).

I made some tests yesterday :

1- 16A as audio interface. GREAT ! Everything works fine, the web app is a incredible tool ! There is some fonctionality I don't get for the moment, like the avb stream. I'll talk about this later. The routing system is clear, full of funky tricks to help user to create the perfect matrix. Didn't focus on audio quality for the moment but my loop test was just transparent to me... Only noticed a difference of -4,7dBfs between output and input (digital trims at 0).

2- 24Ao as audio interface. Very same feeling than with the 16A.

3- 16A as audio interface + 24Ao as output expander (via a simple Cat5 cable between the units) : Here's the point. I have to say than I'm running the 16A over usb for the moment (waiting for my TB cable to arrive), so maybe there's a limitation in the number of channels available. I just can't get my 40 analog outputs, I only have access to 16A analog ins and outs in PT10... The web app see both units and I can enter both units settings. I don't really understand the way the avb stream works. It seems to enable/disable streams by pack of 8 channels (outputs ? inputs ? both ?). I tried to tweak avb streams settings with no success.

mrmiller, any suggestion ?
Groove3.com has a entire tutorial series dedicated to Motu avb interfaces, I was watching the other day, I would seriously consider checking it out...
Old 8th February 2015
  #1132
Something I'm finding really annoying is my 1248 is unable to automatically lock to an incoming sample rate switch without rebooting core audio.

I'm using a Lavry Blue as my master clock source and if I close one Logic Pro arrangement that was playing at 44.1 and then open another which is at 48khz, the 1248 will not function at all until I switch rates on the Lavry AND go to Logic/Preferences/Audio and reboot core audio (can be very time consuming with large arrangements).

The only way around it is to switch sample rates on the master clock BEFORE opening the new arrangement, but often I don't know what sample rate the arrangement is in until I open it.

Never had this problem with RME Total Mix.
Old 8th February 2015
  #1133
Here for the gear
 

I now have 4 location recording jobs under my belt using the 1248 and 8M interfaces. I'm confident enough in using them that I no longer take older gear with me. Their performance has been stellar. Since I use only Win 8.1 machines I was leery of a USB interface but it has been no problem at all. I've used a 1248 with a snake, a 1248 and 8M (using the AVB switch as the master clock), at the stage connecting to another 1248 at FOH with shielded CAT 6 (a lot more fun than reeling out a heavy snake). Everything worked without a hiccup. I'm a little slow catching on to the routing but it's really neat to be able to route the same audio stream to multiple outputs. On the last job a 1248 was the computer interface and fed identical audio streams to 1) a transmitter that sends audio to all cameras; 2) a DA-3000 for backup; 3) an Ultralite for FFT and XY monitoring; 4) a wireless receiver allowing monitoring while roaming around the concert hall; 5) a streaming service for live streaming of the concert. That was possible using the older CuemixFX but required longer setup time and more mouse clicks. Initially I was concerned about the extravagant on-screen real estate the Web GUI required but once it's setup it can be closed, minimized or put in the background. So on a 1080 screen I had the Vegas timeline, Web GUI, and CuemixFX XY diagnostics and it proved to be very doable. But, MOTU, if you're listening I still am hoping you will enable M/S inputs and include a noise generator, FFT analyzer and XY monitor so I can eliminate the Ultralite.
Old 9th February 2015
  #1134
Lives for gear
 
smoovemode's Avatar
 

I've spent an hour on this thread and still cannot find what I'm looking for so I thought I'd just ask.

I have an Allen and Heath GS-R24M with the 32 I/O converter card and an Apogee Symphony I/O with two cards (noisy). I'm not into all that "matching chips" stuff because there are too many other variables ( like the other stuff around the chips). SO, with that said, is the 16A or 24 A)

1. an upgrade from the built in ADC on my console?
2. REALLY the same sound quality as the Syphony I/O (not theoretcially)?
3. Sounds as good or better than the Orion 32?

The reason why I'm considering the change is as much as I like the Apogee sound, I cannot stand the fan noise and don't have the option to put it in a different room.

Any experiences would be appreciated.

Thanks
Old 9th February 2015
  #1135
nms
Lives for gear
 
nms's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovemode View Post
I have an Allen and Heath GS-R24M with the 32 I/O converter card and an Apogee Symphony I/O with two cards (noisy). I'm not into all that "matching chips" stuff because there are too many other variables ( like the other stuff around the chips).
The Symphony & 16A/1248 share a lot more than converter chips. Looping full range audio through the converters and being able to phase cancel the SIO and 16A/1248 to -77dB is evidence of that and the full audio path comes into play there.

Quote:
is the 16A or 24 A)
1. an upgrade from the built in ADC on my console?
2. REALLY the same sound quality as the Syphony I/O (not theoretcially)?
3. Sounds as good or better than the Orion 32?
The 16A, 1248, and 24Ao all spec the same, but the 24Ai uses some different components and doesn't spec quite as high as the other 3. I guess it's not feasible to fit 24 top of the line Cirrus chips in at that price (plus whatever else comes into play there).

1. Yes
2. Close enough to buy but you should let your ears give you the final answer after comparing them a while. If you already have a SIO then you could also try clocking the Motu off that and see if you can tell any difference at all at that point. Considering the circumstances, go for it already! I would in your shoes. A lot of people will be interested in your report after spending time with them both and trying the clocking.

3. Easily.

Quote:
The reason why I'm considering the change is as much as I like the Apogee sound, I cannot stand the fan noise and don't have the option to put it in a different room.
There has to be a way to improve the Symphony fan problem and cool the unit better. It can't be that hard to improve. Can you rack it with the top off and leave 1RU above and below it with a vented rack plate above and below?

Personally, if I had a Symphony the only way I'd think of getting rid of it in favor of the Motu would be pairing it with a Lynx Hilo so you can use that for monitoring, feed a chain, golden pair of ADC, as well as a master clock source to slave the Motu to. I own a Hilo, so this is exactly what I'll do if I grab a 1248, which I may, or may just grab another Hilo. Will see how the year plays out.

Last edited by nms; 9th February 2015 at 11:38 AM..
Old 9th February 2015
  #1136
Lives for gear
 
smoovemode's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
The Symphony & 16A/1248 share a lot more than converter chips. Looping full range audio through the converters and being able to phase cancel the SIO and 16A/1248 to -77dB is evidence of that and the full audio path comes into play there.

The 16A, 1248, and 24Ao all spec the same, but the 24Ai uses some different components and doesn't spec quite as high as the other 3. I guess it's not feasible to fit 24 top of the line Cirrus chips in at that price (plus whatever else comes into play there).

1. Yes
2. Close enough to buy but you should let your ears give you the final answer after comparing them a while. If you already have a SIO then you could also try clocking the Motu off that and see if you can tell any difference at all at that point. Considering the circumstances, go for it already! I would in your shoes. A lot of people will be interested in your report after spending time with them both and trying the clocking.

3. Easily.

There has to be a way to improve the Symphony fan problem and cool the unit better. It can't be that hard to improve. Can you rack it with the top off and leave 1RU above and below it with a vented rack plate above and below?

Personally, if I had a Symphony the only way I'd think of getting rid of it in favor of the Motu would be pairing it with a Lynx Hilo so you can use that for monitoring, feed a chain, golden pair of ADC, as well as a master clock source to slave the Motu to. I own a Hilo, so this is exactly what I'll do if I grab a 1248, which I may, or may just grab another Hilo. Will see how the year plays out.
Thanks for your input :-)

I removed the top this morning and it's like night and day in respect to fan noise while idling. I have yet to fire up a session but it's clearly more quiet with the top off. I'm talking 10db or more. I probably wouldn't hear it at all if I could stand the room being 65 degrees or wear a jacket..lol
Old 10th February 2015
  #1137
Gear Head
 

Hello MrMiller,

I've seen there is a new Mac-driver online - when can we expect a new Windows driver with AVB-Server-Bug-Correction and 32I/O or assynchron I/O settings? I have several customer requests for recording more than 24 I/O at the same time... (also a purchase of a second interface does not make sense, because I can't record all the inputs with a windows computer - and no: I don't want to buy a mac :-) )

I've bought a 828x before the 1248 and sent it back because I didn't liked the CueMixFx-Software especially the routing. But there I could use all I/O at the same time, why not with the 1248?


Thank you!
Old 11th February 2015
  #1138
I am trying to learn the Routing on this thing, for latency free tracking cans mixes etc.. I am getting there.. in fact I think I am there...


So this is the MOTU 16A running at 96Kz. 32 Buffers in Logic. Didn't hear any clicks or weirdness.

Here is the tracking and mixing info, mixing in brackets.



MOTU 16A

Acoustic VP28 KM84 (Delta EQ STA Level on mixdown)

Vocal U87 1073DMP STA level (Delta EQ STA Level on Mixdown)

Resonator MD421 VP28 (Delta EQ LA500 on Mixdown)

Shaker U87 VP28 (Delta EQ WA76 on Mixdown)

Valhalla Vintage Verb Dark Plate

Relab 480L Hall

This is using the Delta as hardware insert/return in logic. Out of MOTU 16A into Line Inputs of the Delta Channels . Using the post fader direct outs of the Delta Channel, then Using the Inserts of the Delta Channel to put in Hardware Compressors.





Cheers

Wiz

www.ozlandmusic.com
Old 11th February 2015
  #1139
Gear Maniac
 
not like this's Avatar
 

Any chance the M/S Decoder from CueMix will be implemented to the new mixer?
Old 12th February 2015
  #1140
Here for the gear
Hard time here with the 24Ao. The AVB streams worked fine over usb few days ago but today I try to work over thunderbolt and it's like the 24Ao goes crazy ! It doesn't save my settings. If I set it right and I go back to the 16A screen, everything goes from scratch when I reopen the 24Ao setting page.

mrmiller, do you know what it could be ? I really feel like the internal memory failed all the time. Impossible to get the good setup like it was few days ago. I tried with usb and I can't have my setup running ok, the 24Ao is still "locked" to the factory setup.

EDIT : Can't even save my settings by creating a new preset. A pop-up opens : "Error message received from server: Service Unavailable (Code 503)". I think I have to ship it back to the shop...
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump