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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 23rd January 2015
  #1081
Here for the gear
 

Rack spacing and USB settings in Win 8.1

I can confirm that these units run hotter than the older MKIII units. So much so that it really is necessary to separate them with at least 1U of space - that is, if you value the LCD displays and the electrolytic capacitors in the power supplies. If you're in a hot climate as I am here in Texas you might want to consider a small fan in the rear of the rack - just something to keep the air moving over the aluminum cases.

In my experience, so far, (location recording where the Windows 8.1 DAW is running non-stop for 1.5 to 2.5 hours) it is necessary to run the USB setting at the "Safest" setting. This adds a lot of samples to make up for the flakiness of using USB in a streaming application but in my kind of recording it makes no difference. When using the "Safe" setting or less after about 20 minutes the Web GUI locks up and the computer has to be re-booted to gain control again. It does not mess up the recording - you just lose control. You'll see a blank screen on the GUI with the statement at the top: "Cannot communicate with the device". This underscores the value of eventually connecting to the computer with Thunderbolt. (I equipped my Windows machines with Thunderbolt two years ago, MOTU, so please continue work toward that end.)

Thanks!
Old 24th January 2015
  #1082
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Future Mixer Capabilities

I am wondering if, in the future, MOTU may add additional internal mixer capabilities like a downward expander instead of the gate and even graphic eq's on Main's and maybe even Aux Sends.
Old 25th January 2015
  #1083
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamerica View Post
I am wondering if, in the future, MOTU may add additional internal mixer capabilities like a downward expander instead of the gate and even graphic eq's on Main's and maybe even Aux Sends.
+ 1 !

That would be great!
Old 26th January 2015
  #1084
Here for the gear
 

A Second Look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sijon View Post
In my experience, so far, (location recording where the Windows 8.1 DAW is running non-stop for 1.5 to 2.5 hours) it is necessary to run the USB setting at the "Safest" setting. This adds a lot of samples to make up for the flakiness of using USB in a streaming application but in my kind of recording it makes no difference. When using the "Safe" setting or less after about 20 minutes the Web GUI locks up and the computer has to be re-booted to gain control again. It does not mess up the recording - you just lose control. You'll see a blank screen on the GUI with the statement at the top: "Cannot communicate with the device".
Thanks!
I need to rescind my earlier post. I experienced other problems with my set up that pointed to timing problems. I tried various configurations using the 1248 and 8M. Somewhere I missed vital info about the AVB Grand Master Clock. I did not realize that the AVB Switch can function as the Master Clock. Ultimately, I ended up with a wireless router with 4 gigabit LAN ports with one LAN port connected to the computer Ethernet port. (A USB port on the computer connects to the USB port on the 1248). A second LAN port on the router goes to the Ethernet port on the AVB Switch. Two of the Five AVB ports were directed to the 1248 and 8M respectively. That star configuration established the AVB Switch as the Grand Master Clock. My computer began behaving and the whole system was nicely synched. The three remaining ports on the AVB Switch are available to network with other AVB devices I might want to set up such as another 1248 at the FOH connected by shielded CAT 6 cable. MOTU allows for running the Web GUI to control their devices but I also wanted to be able to control the recording computer. So with above configuration I can take a laptop and, using Remote Desktop, connect wirelessly to the network described above and control/operate the entire system from anywhere in the house.

I ran the whole system for 12 hours with no dropouts or any other problems and I was able to run it at lower latencies than I earlier indicated. I mean to check again this week in order to determine just how small I can make the buffer and will report here what I find. The recording computer, by the way, is a Gigabyte Brix mini-PC with a Haswell I5 CPU.

Hope this helps someone and I apologize for my earlier post.
Old 26th January 2015
  #1085
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
One more plea. Any Torontonians anywhere have one of these I can hear in action? Pulling the trigger on any interface at any amount without hearing it is a poor investment. I just want to know I'm making the best choice.
Sam, I am in California, not Toronto, but I have the same thing going - hesitating on switching, as my BLA002 is so familiar and trustworthy for mixing and mastering. I've been on the verge of reconfiguring my mix room for abut six months, as it is a major moving around of furniture and gear and I'm looking for a break in work to take it all apart and re-do it. Then I'll install both the 8M I have and the BLA002 so I can A/B them...
Old 27th January 2015
  #1086
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subspace's Avatar
After running the same Pro Tools/M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge DAW configuration from January 2007 to January 2015, I finally pulled the trigger on a new interface yesterday - the MOTU 16A! I ran a MOTU 2408 based rig from 1999 through 2006 that was rock solid so I'm looking forward to returning to the fold.
I'll hopefully be running the 16A via a CalDigit Thunderbolt Station 2, as I want to be able to unplug the Thunderbolt cable from the MacBook Pro and leave the eSATA recording drive, HDMI monitor, and ethernet connected controller in the studio. Hopefully when they both arrive, they will play nicely together...
This will be my first interface with built-in cue mixing, both my prior set-ups were centered around an analog desk for monitoring, but the iOS Wifi control looks like it could be the ultimate personal monitor solution. Can I also use an iMac connected over Wifi to run a monitor mix while the 16A is connected via Thunderbolt to the MacBook Pro for recording? Thought so, but wasn't positive...
Will still be mixing hybrid with the analog desk/controller, so time to heat up the soldering iron and terminate 32 points on the bay with TRS.

edit: I pulled the trigger after I discovered the latest 15% off code from MF didn't exclude MOTU, $1,270 for the 16A plus $170 for the Thunderbolt Station 2!

Last edited by subspace; 27th January 2015 at 10:25 PM..
Old 28th January 2015
  #1087
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Hi MrMiller, or anyone else that can chip in - I've been reading through the manual of the Monitor 8, which I am considering as my new interface / doubling up as the basis of an IEM rehearsal setup for my band (kill 2 birds with one stone and have the ability to expand via AVB)

Now, it seems to me that the Aux Mixing tab in the manuals don't allow per channel panning?

E.g. what i really want out of the Monitor 8 is as follows:-

1. Use 4 of the stereo headphone outputs for each member of the band as their own personal IEM feed - this seems to be possible (if not part of the design!)
2. We will likely have 8 analog inputs, plus maybe some more via ADAT. I would want to be able to set the pan of these mono inputs for each AUX/IEM feed.

Judging by the AUX Mixing Tab on page 18 of the Monitor 8 manual, it doesn't seem like this is possible?

I can see that on the Main Mixing tab, the analog inputs can have pan set, but I can't see a pan control on the AUX sends.

So if I have a mono input - e.g. my vocal or guitar signal, if I send that to a stereo aux, it has to be panned on the main mix, and then the aux has that fixed pan position?

My band are picky buggers and i'm really looking for flexibility to place my inputs wherever each performer wants them in the stereo field on their feed, and I really hoped the Monitor 8 could do this.

Any assistance / input is appreciated!


Last edited by gollumsluvslave; 28th January 2015 at 04:36 PM..
Old 28th January 2015
  #1088
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave View Post

Now, it seems to me that the Aux Mixing tab in the manuals don't allow per channel panning?
yes, the panning of the Aux is depending on the main mix channels.
Old 29th January 2015
  #1089
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGPS View Post
yes, the panning of the Aux is depending on the main mix channels.
Damn! I was really hoping that the Monitor 8 would have the ability to have different stereo Cue Mixes :(

Back to the drawing board I guess. MrMiller, I don't suppose that this is something that is possible to add to the firmware / software at some point?

The Monitor 8 looks so good, an with such an array of Stereo outputs available for IEM systems not being able to position elements differently in the stereo field seems like such a strange omission.

For an example, our singer will want his vocals centred, my vocals and guitar to the left and his guitar to the right. Myself on the other hand, would ideally want my backing vocals and guitar centred, with his vocals and guitar off to the right and left.

Our Drummer would want both guitars hard panned left and right, but us that play the guitars would not want that hard panning.

Old 29th January 2015
  #1090
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave View Post
Damn! I was really hoping that the Monitor 8 would have the ability to have different stereo Cue Mixes :(

Back to the drawing board I guess. MrMiller, I don't suppose that this is something that is possible to add to the firmware / software at some point?

The Monitor 8 looks so good, an with such an array of Stereo outputs available for IEM systems not being able to position elements differently in the stereo field seems like such a strange omission.

For an example, our singer will want his vocals centred, my vocals and guitar to the left and his guitar to the right. Myself on the other hand, would ideally want my backing vocals and guitar centred, with his vocals and guitar off to the right and left.

Our Drummer would want both guitars hard panned left and right, but us that play the guitars would not want that hard panning.

2 workarounds would be:

You have only 8 analog inputs in this module but 48 virtual inputs in the DSP mixer, so you can do:

you could route your analog inputs twice (or more), so you can individually set the panning. do not set it on main mix only go prefader to the individual aux send.

e.g.:

Analog input 1 => Mixer input 1, Panning: hard left => Aux 1 (prefader) / no routing to main mix!
Analog input 1 => Mixer input 2, Panning: centered => Aux 2 (prefader) / no routing to main mix!
Analog input 1 => Mixer input 3, Panning: middle right => Aux 3 (prefader)

and so on for the other analog inputs.




another (better) way is:

Put every input twice in the mixer, so you have a pseudo stereo with 2 faders:

Analog input 1 => Mixer input 1 hard panned left => Aux 1, Aux 2, ...
Analog input 1 => Mixer input 2 hard panned right => Aux 1, Aux 2, ...

Analog input 2 => Mixer input 3 hard panned left => Aux 1, Aux 2, ...
Analog input 2 => Mixer input 4 hard panned right => Aux 1, Aux 2, ...

now you have 2 faders per analog input in the Aux, and every musician can adjust the panning:

both faders the same = centered
Left fader (Mixer input 1) only = Hard panned left
Right fader (Mixer input 2) only = Hard panned right
or something between it.



But a panning knob on all aux would be better, of course.

Sorry for my english!
Old 29th January 2015
  #1091
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGPS View Post
2 workarounds would be:

You have only 8 analog inputs in this module but 48 virtual inputs in the DSP mixer, so you can do:

you could route your analog inputs twice (or more), so you can individually set the panning. do not set it on main mix only go prefader to the individual aux send.

e.g.:

Analog input 1 => Mixer input 1, Panning: hard left => Aux 1 (prefader) / no routing to main mix!
Analog input 1 => Mixer input 2, Panning: centered => Aux 2 (prefader) / no routing to main mix!
Analog input 1 => Mixer input 3, Panning: middle right => Aux 3 (prefader)

and so on for the other analog inputs.




another (better) way is:

Put every input twice in the mixer, so you have a pseudo stereo with 2 faders:

Analog input 1 => Mixer input 1 hard panned left => Aux 1, Aux 2, ...
Analog input 1 => Mixer input 2 hard panned right => Aux 1, Aux 2, ...

Analog input 2 => Mixer input 3 hard panned left => Aux 1, Aux 2, ...
Analog input 2 => Mixer input 4 hard panned right => Aux 1, Aux 2, ...

now you have 2 faders per analog input in the Aux, and every musician can adjust the panning:

both faders the same = centered
Left fader (Mixer input 1) only = Hard panned left
Right fader (Mixer input 2) only = Hard panned right
or something between it.



But a panning knob on all aux would be better, of course.

Sorry for my english!
No worries on the English, beautifully explained, and a really cool workaround! I realised that the AVP mixer had 48 channels, but I didn't realise you could 'mult' the Analog Inputs to Mixer Channels! Awesome!

Many thanks!
Old 29th January 2015
  #1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGPS View Post
2 workarounds would be:

You have only 8 analog inputs in this module but 48 virtual inputs in the DSP mixer, so you can do:

you could route your analog inputs twice (or more), so you can individually set the panning. do not set it on main mix only go prefader to the individual aux send.

e.g.:

Analog input 1 => Mixer input 1, Panning: hard left => Aux 1 (prefader) / no routing to main mix!
Analog input 1 => Mixer input 2, Panning: centered => Aux 2 (prefader) / no routing to main mix!
Analog input 1 => Mixer input 3, Panning: middle right => Aux 3 (prefader)

and so on for the other analog inputs.




another (better) way is:

Put every input twice in the mixer, so you have a pseudo stereo with 2 faders:

Analog input 1 => Mixer input 1 hard panned left => Aux 1, Aux 2, ...
Analog input 1 => Mixer input 2 hard panned right => Aux 1, Aux 2, ...

Analog input 2 => Mixer input 3 hard panned left => Aux 1, Aux 2, ...
Analog input 2 => Mixer input 4 hard panned right => Aux 1, Aux 2, ...

now you have 2 faders per analog input in the Aux, and every musician can adjust the panning:

both faders the same = centered
Left fader (Mixer input 1) only = Hard panned left
Right fader (Mixer input 2) only = Hard panned right
or something between it.



But a panning knob on all aux would be better, of course.

Sorry for my english!
You beat me to the workaround I was going to suggestion! Great explanation.

We're looking into adding pan knobs for the aux mixes. I don't have a time frame yet, however.
Old 29th January 2015
  #1093
Quote:
Originally Posted by subspace View Post
This will be my first interface with built-in cue mixing, both my prior set-ups were centered around an analog desk for monitoring, but the iOS Wifi control looks like it could be the ultimate personal monitor solution. Can I also use an iMac connected over Wifi to run a monitor mix while the 16A is connected via Thunderbolt to the MacBook Pro for recording?
Yes. As many devices as you want (well, to some large upper limit) can access the web app simultaneously. Definitely no problem recording on one machine and tweaking the controls from another computer or mobile device.
Old 29th January 2015
  #1094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
We're looking into adding pan knobs for the aux mixes. I don't have a time frame yet, however.
Thanks for responding! Even with no time frame for the ideal way to do what I want, knowing there is a reasonable workaround is perfect for me right now.

We are currently using Jamhub as a temporary IEM solution which is ok, but not great, and the Monitor 8 looks like it will be a nice upgrade to my Edirol UA-1000, and give me a solution to my IEM issues as well.

I really like the AVB concept, where if I want to expand I could easily add a 1248 or 16A as my main interface, but still retain the Monitor 8 as my IEM system (but with more inputs to work with).

Brilliant.
Old 30th January 2015
  #1095
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
You beat me to the workaround I was going to suggestion! Great explanation.

We're looking into adding pan knobs for the aux mixes. I don't have a time frame yet, however.
Hello MrMiller,
do you have a time frame for a new win driver? also I think the driver for the 112D isn't released yet, although you could buy it in germany (15 days shipping time)

And I have 2 additional questions:

1. if I have 2 AVB Interfaces connected with an ethernet cable /AVB switch, can I connect each Interface with USB to 2 Computers (WIN) and record the same channels? This would be a great Backup-Use on Liverecordings.

2. if I have 2 AVB Interfaces connected with an ethernet cable /AVB switch, do I have 2 Mixers? one per interface? or is the DSP-Power summed?

Thank you.
Old 30th January 2015
  #1096
SEA
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SEA's Avatar
 

How does the MOTU 16A and the 8M have the same converters?

Also, I wonder how it sounds compared to the RME Fireface UC?

Thoughts?
Old 30th January 2015
  #1097
nms
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nms's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEA View Post
How does the MOTU 16A and the 8M have the same converters?
They only share the same DAC. The 1248 & 16A share the same DAC & ADC.

Quote:
I wonder how it sounds compared to the RME Fireface UC?
The 16A & 1248 use higher grade components than all of the Fireface product line and will pass audio with less conversion artifacts.
Old 31st January 2015
  #1098
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subspace's Avatar
New interface day!

First note, no Thunderbolt cable included with either the 16A or the Thunderbolt Station 2, just a 10' USB with the MOTU. Second note, Thunderbolt cables are expensive!

While I wait for a Thunderbolt cable delivery, I thought I'd do a preliminary exploration of the 16A by just connecting it to my home Wifi router. I had installed Yosemite to a new partition on our living room iMac, as well as the AVB discovery app and AudioDesk 4. It immediately detected the 16A over Wifi and prompted me to update the firmware by launching Safari and displaying the settings page served up by the 16A. Plug and play without actually plugging it into the Mac, I guess I've missed a few things not upgrading for 8 years.

The routing matrix is expansive but I did note it contracted when I switched to my defacto sampling rate of 88.2. The inputs to the DSP mixer drop from 48 to 32 and the aux mixes available drop from 7 stereo to 3 stereo. I don't remember reading that before hand. The aux mixes could be split to six mono which I didn't really see documented before either, and is good news for me, especially considering the reduced number of mixes at higher sampling rates.

I had also upgraded my iPad mini to the latest OS and installed the MOTU AVB app on it. It detected the 16A on the network right away and gave me the same control panel view as the iMac browser, which seemed way to expansive and fiddly for the screen on the mini. Hmm. Clicking on the aux mix tab gave a more optimized interface, where you can only see one section of processing at a time and selecting another replaces that section rather than adds to it. I also noticed a a button under the aux master that said "personal monitor mix" or something like that. Pressing it, that aux mix interface was full screen with no access to the rest of the main mix or other aux mixes. So this locks the band member out of messing up the wrong cue mix, but how do I go back?

As I was wrapping my brain around the work flow, I decided to try connecting with a web browser on the iPad as the manual detailed. I hit the ID button on the 16A and typed the displayed IP address into Safari's address bar, and there was my mixer, displayed on the iPad's web browser. But wait, the fiddly faders were smoother now, I could actually use this view on the mini. Then I went to the aux mixing tab and tried the "personal monitor mix" button. This time the selected aux mix popped open on a second browser tab. I immediately went back to the main mix tab, selected a different aux mix and hit the "personal" button again. Cool, a third tab pops open with that aux mix on it, so tabbed mixing pages are a go.

The lowered number of inputs/mixes at higher sampling rates threw me at first and I had to really think about the routing matrix configuration for my studio set-up. I ended up routing the 16 analog ins to the DSP mixer and the computer, plus 16 more streams from the computer to the DSP mixer as well as the analog outs. The 8 adat inputs are fed straight to the computer since I'm out of inputs to the DSP mixer, and the DSP mixer outputs are fed directly to the 8 adat outs, configured as aux mix 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, and monitor mix L-R. The monitor mix will be the main mix by default, with solo interrupt and the ability to switch to monitoring each stereo aux mix by using the mix select button under the monitor fader.

So my original plan of using the 27" iMac in the control room as just a monitor mixer should work well. The iPad will live in the tracking room for tweaking cue mixes, and next up is experimenting with some retired iPhones for tweaking mix 3-4 and 5-6 individually via their web browsers.

Oh, and plugging in that USB cable to actually hear the thing.
Attached Thumbnails
MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface-photo.jpg  
Old 31st January 2015
  #1099
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dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by subspace View Post
New interface day!

First note, no Thunderbolt cable included with either the 16A or the Thunderbolt Station 2, just a 10' USB with the MOTU. Second note, Thunderbolt cables are expensive!

While I wait for a Thunderbolt cable delivery, I thought I'd do a preliminary exploration of the 16A by just connecting it to my home Wifi router. I had installed Yosemite to a new partition on our living room iMac, as well as the AVB discovery app and AudioDesk 4. It immediately detected the 16A over Wifi and prompted me to update the firmware by launching Safari and displaying the settings page served up by the 16A. Plug and play without actually plugging it into the Mac, I guess I've missed a few things not upgrading for 8 years.

The routing matrix is expansive but I did note it contracted when I switched to my defacto sampling rate of 88.2. The inputs to the DSP mixer drop from 48 to 32 and the aux mixes available drop from 7 stereo to 3 stereo. I don't remember reading that before hand. The aux mixes could be split to six mono which I didn't really see documented before either, and is good news for me, especially considering the reduced number of mixes at higher sampling rates.

I had also upgraded my iPad mini to the latest OS and installed the MOTU AVB app on it. It detected the 16A on the network right away and gave me the same control panel view as the iMac browser, which seemed way to expansive and fiddly for the screen on the mini. Hmm. Clicking on the aux mix tab gave a more optimized interface, where you can only see one section of processing at a time and selecting another replaces that section rather than adds to it. I also noticed a a button under the aux master that said "personal monitor mix" or something like that. Pressing it, that aux mix interface was full screen with no access to the rest of the main mix or other aux mixes. So this locks the band member out of messing up the wrong cue mix, but how do I go back?

As I was wrapping my brain around the work flow, I decided to try connecting with a web browser on the iPad as the manual detailed. I hit the ID button on the 16A and typed the displayed IP address into Safari's address bar, and there was my mixer, displayed on the iPad's web browser. But wait, the fiddly faders were smoother now, I could actually use this view on the mini. Then I went to the aux mixing tab and tried the "personal monitor mix" button. This time the selected aux mix popped open on a second browser tab. I immediately went back to the main mix tab, selected a different aux mix and hit the "personal" button again. Cool, a third tab pops open with that aux mix on it, so tabbed mixing pages are a go.

The lowered number of inputs/mixes at higher sampling rates threw me at first and I had to really think about the routing matrix configuration for my studio set-up. I ended up routing the 16 analog ins to the DSP mixer and the computer, plus 16 more streams from the computer to the DSP mixer as well as the analog outs. The 8 adat inputs are fed straight to the computer since I'm out of inputs to the DSP mixer, and the DSP mixer outputs are fed directly to the 8 adat outs, configured as aux mix 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, and monitor mix L-R. The monitor mix will be the main mix by default, with solo interrupt and the ability to switch to monitoring each stereo aux mix by using the mix select button under the monitor fader.

So my original plan of using the 27" iMac in the control room as just a monitor mixer should work well. The iPad will live in the tracking room for tweaking cue mixes, and next up is experimenting with some retired iPhones for tweaking mix 3-4 and 5-6 individually via their web browsers.

Oh, and plugging in that USB cable to actually hear the thing.
Nice. Still considering a 16A when I can, so look forwards to your sonic opinions.
Old 1st February 2015
  #1100
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by subspace View Post
New interface day!

First note, no Thunderbolt cable included with either the 16A or the Thunderbolt Station 2, just a 10' USB with the MOTU. Second note, Thunderbolt cables are expensive!

While I wait for a Thunderbolt cable delivery, I thought I'd do a preliminary exploration of the 16A by just connecting it to my home Wifi router. I had installed Yosemite to a new partition on our living room iMac, as well as the AVB discovery app and AudioDesk 4. It immediately detected the 16A over Wifi and prompted me to update the firmware by launching Safari and displaying the settings page served up by the 16A. Plug and play without actually plugging it into the Mac, I guess I've missed a few things not upgrading for 8 years.

The routing matrix is expansive but I did note it contracted when I switched to my defacto sampling rate of 88.2. The inputs to the DSP mixer drop from 48 to 32 and the aux mixes available drop from 7 stereo to 3 stereo. I don't remember reading that before hand. The aux mixes could be split to six mono which I didn't really see documented before either, and is good news for me, especially considering the reduced number of mixes at higher sampling rates.

I had also upgraded my iPad mini to the latest OS and installed the MOTU AVB app on it. It detected the 16A on the network right away and gave me the same control panel view as the iMac browser, which seemed way to expansive and fiddly for the screen on the mini. Hmm. Clicking on the aux mix tab gave a more optimized interface, where you can only see one section of processing at a time and selecting another replaces that section rather than adds to it. I also noticed a a button under the aux master that said "personal monitor mix" or something like that. Pressing it, that aux mix interface was full screen with no access to the rest of the main mix or other aux mixes. So this locks the band member out of messing up the wrong cue mix, but how do I go back?

As I was wrapping my brain around the work flow, I decided to try connecting with a web browser on the iPad as the manual detailed. I hit the ID button on the 16A and typed the displayed IP address into Safari's address bar, and there was my mixer, displayed on the iPad's web browser. But wait, the fiddly faders were smoother now, I could actually use this view on the mini. Then I went to the aux mixing tab and tried the "personal monitor mix" button. This time the selected aux mix popped open on a second browser tab. I immediately went back to the main mix tab, selected a different aux mix and hit the "personal" button again. Cool, a third tab pops open with that aux mix on it, so tabbed mixing pages are a go.

The lowered number of inputs/mixes at higher sampling rates threw me at first and I had to really think about the routing matrix configuration for my studio set-up. I ended up routing the 16 analog ins to the DSP mixer and the computer, plus 16 more streams from the computer to the DSP mixer as well as the analog outs. The 8 adat inputs are fed straight to the computer since I'm out of inputs to the DSP mixer, and the DSP mixer outputs are fed directly to the 8 adat outs, configured as aux mix 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, and monitor mix L-R. The monitor mix will be the main mix by default, with solo interrupt and the ability to switch to monitoring each stereo aux mix by using the mix select button under the monitor fader.

So my original plan of using the 27" iMac in the control room as just a monitor mixer should work well. The iPad will live in the tracking room for tweaking cue mixes, and next up is experimenting with some retired iPhones for tweaking mix 3-4 and 5-6 individually via their web browsers.

Oh, and plugging in that USB cable to actually hear the thing.
Soo with higher sampling rates in-out channels are reduced?
I read the manual and didnt notice this. Im interested on 6 stereo aux..
Old 1st February 2015
  #1101
Here for the gear
 

AVB over Ethernet with MAC 10.10 Yosemite

MrMiller,

Why is MAC OS 10.10 and higher required for a MOTU AVB Ethernet connection to the MAC ?
What changed with the Apple AVB support from 10.9 Mavericks to 10.10 that is required for the connection to operate?

Thanks!
Old 1st February 2015
  #1102
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subspace's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by galoz View Post
Soo with higher sampling rates in-out channels are reduced?
I read the manual and didnt notice this. Im interested on 6 stereo aux..
In-out channels to the internal mixer dropped from 48 @ 44.1k to 32 @ 88.2k. Physical in-out dropped from 16 analog & 16 Adat to 16 analog & 8 Adat due to SMUX, as expected.
Yes, I didn't see mention of the DSP mixer's reduced channels/mixes at higher sampling rates before trying it myself. The 7 stereo aux mixes @ 44.1k does indeed drop to 3 stereo aux mixes @ 88.2k. There are still 3 stereo groups @ 88.2k, which can function exactly the same as aux mixes except they won't split to mono and the 3rd normally feeds the internal reverb.

I plugged the USB connection into the iMac yesterday and the 16A's core audio driver was immediately available for 24 in-out as expected. It also appeared that the DSP mixer's in-out count dropped to 24, I'll have to re-confirm that it can't be raised above that.

I plugged a Telecaster into the DI channel of a Focusrite ISA One and patched it's line level out to the 16A's 1st analog in. I patched analog out 1-2 to the ISA One's stereo headphone amp and monitored on Sony 7506s. I tried setting up the DSP mixer via my iPad mini to hear it direct, but it was way too fiddly/laggy. Using the browser now just endlessly waited for a screen redraw, while the app had so much delay I would press a button twice thinking I missed it, just to see it enable then disable afterwards. Then the tip of my stylus fell off and forget hitting those tiny buttons with a fingertip.

I switched to the original plan of using the iMac for cue mix control, and selected the 16A from the AVB discovery app that's now always present next to the clock in the upper right corner. The browser interface opened with everything appropriately sized for use on the 27" monitor. I think the current interface was written for use on a big monitor and then optimized for mobile by just having one processing window open at a time. It needs the controls scaled up for me to actually be able to tweak anything with a finger beyond the big fader.

I was now able to monitor my Tele via the DSP mixer and try out it's processing. The HPF was noiseless when engaged and adjusted, totally usable on the fly in a mix. The gate was really smooth and usable. The four band EQ sounded great, the curves may be 1073 modeled but it's a clean EQ, really smooth. The compressor was a hot mess. I don't know what happened there but I hope that it gets updated. I doubt it's supposed be doing auto gain make-up as you adjust the threshold with no compression happening but it sure sounds like it. Luckily the bypass works.

Running at 88.2k, I could enable the HPF, gate, and all 4 EQ bands across 16 channels, all 4 bands of stereo EQ on the main mix and 2 stereo groups, as well as the reverb processor before running out of DSP. Trying to enable the compressor on the main/groups would prompt a DSP maxed message. I doubt I'll ever need all 4 bands of EQ on every channel, but I could see running out of DSP with 24 ins, or if the compressor gets fixed.

At this point I decided to launch AudioDesk 4 to check out the USB driver performance. The only thing I had installed on this Yosemite partition besides the MOTU stuff was Apple's Mainstage 2, IK's Amplitube Custom Shop and T-RackS Custom Shop. AudioDesk scanned the Apple and IK Audio Units plug-ins and loaded them without complaint. I opened a 48 track template and patched the 24 16A inputs to the 1st 24 tracks, setting all 48 tracks to output 1-2.
I opened an instance of Amplitube on the 1st track and enabled record so I could monitor the Tele's input through the plug-in. I don't remember Amplitube sounding this good before, and I was just using it the day before on the same iMac through an Avid C400 interface. Ran the Focusrite DI gain up and down and it was controlling the drive levels on the front-end of the Slash JCM800 model pretty convincingly. The buffer was at 512 by default and there was some latency so I dropped it to 64. CPU spikes and clicks in the audio. Upped it to 128 and the spikes were less frequent, took it to 256 and it was stable around 50% with no glitches. I pulled Amplitube off and replaced it with an instance of IK's EQ 73 across the first 24 tracks without a signifigant change on the processing meter. This isn't my studio machine, just a surfing iMac i3 I used to check out how a USB2.0 connection performs on a pre-Thunderbolt machine. Looks like you could crank the buffer up and record 24 tracks without concern, while monitoring on the DSP mixer.

I actually have old projects recorded in AudioDesk 1 at 48k from my 2408 days. I'm going to see if I can get them to open with the current version, hopefully their sound will improve as much as Amplitube's did...

Last edited by subspace; 1st February 2015 at 07:20 PM..
Old 2nd February 2015
  #1103
Gear Head
 

mrmiller are the DA outputs protected against accidental Phantom power from a console input?
Old 3rd February 2015
  #1104
Lives for gear
 

I'm interested to hear about the low latency performance of the 16A when running over USB (I'm on Windows and not holding my breath for TB).
Old 3rd February 2015
  #1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparqee View Post
I'm interested to hear about the low latency performance of the 16A when running over USB (I'm on Windows and not holding my breath for TB).
Me too… 5,1 Mac Pro
Old 4th February 2015
  #1106
Gear Addict
 
rob61's Avatar
 

I'm using Pro Tools 10HD under Windows 7 using the 16a with a USB connection. If I start a new session, I can record and playback ok. However, when I try to open previously recorded sessions (created whenu using a MOTU 828 MkII or a PTHD system), the session opens, but it won't play and sometimes I get an error message saying Pro Tools can't initialize the audio interface. Some are at 44.1 KHz and some are at 48KHz at 24 bit.

Any ideas on what I can try to get these older sessions to play back? When I hit the play button, it just sits there and nothing plays and the cursor doesn't move. I have the clock set to internal. I noticed the sample rate does change between 44.1 and 48 depending on the session, but none of them will play. I can only get the ones created with the 16a to record and play back.
Old 4th February 2015
  #1107
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob61 View Post
I'm using Pro Tools 10HD under Windows 7 using the 16a with a USB connection. If I start a new session, I can record and playback ok. However, when I try to open previously recorded sessions (created whenu using a MOTU 828 MkII or a PTHD system), the session opens, but it won't play and sometimes I get an error message saying Pro Tools can't initialize the audio interface. Some are at 44.1 KHz and some are at 48KHz at 24 bit.

Any ideas on what I can try to get these older sessions to play back? When I hit the play button, it just sits there and nothing plays and the cursor doesn't move. I have the clock set to internal. I noticed the sample rate does change between 44.1 and 48 depending on the session, but none of them will play. I can only get the ones created with the 16a to record and play back.
I dont use pt but in cubase i would have to change to the new device im using. When clients send me sessions i always change device configuration and re route stereo out.
I dont know if that helps you
Old 4th February 2015
  #1108
Gear Addict
 
rob61's Avatar
 

I set the audio device to the 16a, and PT says it has to restart. After it restarts, still same issue... hit play and it just sits, as if its not getting the clock but I'm using the internal (computer) as the clock choice.

It seems the problem is more related to sessions in PT 10 that used a 48KHz clock. When I open the session, the interface shows the rate change to 48KHz Int, but I get the error message "Problem detected with audio clock. Check that your clock source and sample rate are correct."

I can NOT set the clock rate from within PT. The PT10 Hardware Setup page shows the MOTU AVB USB ASIO "Launch Setup App", but of course the 16a uses the AVB WebUI setup page (and not the MOTU AVB USB ASIO app) to set the clock. Therefore is Pro Tools 10 incompatible with the MOTU 16a for older sessions? It seems PT 10 is not being told that it has been set to the correct clock (even though it is switched when the session opens). Does this require a windows driver update? Something is not working properly here, and I'm thinking it has to do with the 16a driver.

Last edited by rob61; 4th February 2015 at 05:46 AM..
Old 4th February 2015
  #1109
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob61 View Post
I set the audio device to the 16a, and PT says it has to restart. After it restarts, still same issue... hit play and it just sits, as if its not getting the clock but I'm using the internal (computer) as the clock choice.

It seems the problem is more related to sessions in PT 10 that used a 48KHz clock. When I open the session, the interface shows the rate change to 48KHz Int, but I get the error message "Problem detected with audio clock. Check that your clock source and sample rate are correct."

I can NOT set the clock rate from within PT. The PT10 Hardware Setup page shows the MOTU AVB USB ASIO "Launch Setup App", but of course the 16a uses the AVB WebUI setup page (and not the MOTU AVB USB ASIO app) to set the clock. Therefore is Pro Tools 10 incompatible with the MOTU 16a for older sessions? It seems PT 10 is not being told that it has been set to the correct clock (even though it is switched when the session opens). Does this require a windows driver update? Something is not working properly here, and I'm thinking it has to do with the 16a driver.
One thing I've noted with my own USB interface and Cubase, is I have huge problems when changing sample rate mid-session. Invariably, I end up having to power cycle my interface (Edirol UA-1000), and reboot Windows.

Now for me if I know I'm going to change from 44.1 to 96 for example, I do the following steps every time:-

1. Close down my Cubase 44.1 session
2. Switch off my interface, change sample rate to 96 (same on my API A2D which clocks my Edirol)
3. Reboot Windows
4. Restart Cubase, open (or create) my 96k project.

When I don't follow these steps, I always get some kind of instability changing sample rates.

Might just be my setup, but it's at least orthogonally related!
Old 5th February 2015
  #1110
When I open up older sessions, I change all the audio files to the new s/r (my case 44.1 to 88.2) Not sure if this helps.
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