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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 22nd December 2014
  #991
Quote:
Originally Posted by a2m View Post
1. Would it be possible to have the following on at the same time:
- 4band-eq/compressor on every input channel (16 inputs)
- 1 stereo reverb
- 4band-eq/compressor on the 8 aux outs
- 4band-eq/compressor/leveler on stereo main out
That should be fine at 1x. You should be able to do a little more, actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a2m View Post
2. I am thinking about running in 48k, would the dsp be cut in 1/2 when switching to 96k?
Yes, roughly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a2m View Post
3. If the unit is set to 96k, do the adat-inputs still work with 48k signals? Or do they need a 96k signal?
ADAT needs to match the sample rate. S/PDIF however will convert sample rates on input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a2m View Post
4. Does the ipad connection via usb also allow for 96k recordings over the camerakit?
I don't see why not though I haven't tested with an iPad personally. It's an audio class compliant USB device so it should work roughly the same on iPad as it does on Mac, contingent on iOS' driver and the recording software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a2m View Post
5. Would it be possible to have a small graphic representation (curve) of the eq settings when changing in the web interface. (I know you can use q-factor, but it would be nice to see what you do also)
It's definitely something we've talked about! I'll add it as a feature request.
Old 22nd December 2014
  #992
Quote:
Originally Posted by cLoudForest View Post
Does anyone know how long the firmware update process should take? I've got my 16A on the network and started the firmware update via the web UI but it seems to be taking forever to do anything. The web UI just says "Waiting for device..." and the 16A shows "Update mode" along with the local network address. I'm on Windows FWIW but so far I've not even connected it to my PC since the new firmware version 1.1.2 must be installed first...

EDIT: looks like the web UI has just given up and now says "Timed out waiting for server for http://192.168.1.82/update". The 16A is still the same.
Did you ever get a progress bar saying it was writing and verifying the update? Regardless, if the auto update isn't working for some reason, you can do a manual update by visiting the URL on the front of the box (http://192.168.1.82). It will have a link to the latest firmware available to download and then you submit it to the interface.
Old 22nd December 2014
  #993
Quote:
Originally Posted by synnys View Post
Hi Mr Miller,

Would it hurt the device if I were to connect via USB and TB at the same time?

I have a WIN/OSX dualboot (hackintosh) and would like to use the unit on both OS'es without switching cables..
It shouldn't hurt it but it can only do one of those protocols at a time. I'm not sure which it will choose on Mac, though, and it may be nondeterministic.
Old 22nd December 2014
  #994
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
Did you ever get a progress bar saying it was writing and verifying the update? Regardless, if the auto update isn't working for some reason, you can do a manual update by visiting the URL on the front of the box (http://192.168.1.82). It will have a link to the latest firmware available to download and then you submit it to the interface.
I was using the manual method via the web UI but never got any progress bar or anything on the 16A itself: it just says "Update mode" as I described before.

I'm trying to update from a file instead this time, but uploading seems to be very slow. The browser is reporting 2% uploaded after at least 5 minutes but at least it seems to be progressing, so I'm going to leave it and see if it completes this time.
Old 22nd December 2014
  #995
Quote:
Originally Posted by cLoudForest View Post
I was using the manual method via the web UI but never got any progress bar or anything on the 16A itself: it just says "Update mode" as I described before.

I'm trying to update from a file instead this time, but uploading seems to be very slow. The browser is reporting 2% uploaded after at least 5 minutes but at least it seems to be progressing, so I'm going to leave it and see if it completes this time.
Very strange that the upload is taking so long. It should go very quickly. Which browser are you using? It might be worth trying a different one if that's not working. I'd try restarting the interface and trying the update again. When it's working, you should see a progress bar on the interface's display as well as in your browser. If it doesn't work a second time, I would try updating directly from firmware update mode. Hold down the Select button while starting up to boot directly into firmware update mode and type in the IP address on the front of the box.
Old 22nd December 2014
  #996
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
Very strange that the upload is taking so long. It should go very quickly. Which browser are you using? It might be worth trying a different one if that's not working. I'd try restarting the interface and trying the update again. When it's working, you should see a progress bar on the interface's display as well as in your browser. If it doesn't work a second time, I would try updating directly from firmware update mode. Hold down the Select button while starting up to boot directly into firmware update mode and type in the IP address on the front of the box.
Thanks for the reply but I appear to have managed to update okay now.

I had the 16A connected to a network switch in my studio, but after the last attempt failed, I moved it so that it was connected directly to the router instead (in another room) and that seems to have succeeded. So I guess there must have been a problem between the 16A and the switch for some reason, which is strange because everything else is happily patched through the switch. I'm not going to worry too much about that right now, though. It's updated, that's all that matters.
Old 22nd December 2014
  #997
Quote:
Originally Posted by cLoudForest View Post
Thanks for the reply but I appear to have managed to update okay now.

I had the 16A connected to a network switch in my studio, but after the last attempt failed, I moved it so that it was connected directly to the router instead (in another room) and that seems to have succeeded. So I guess there must have been a problem between the 16A and the switch for some reason, which is strange because everything else is happily patched through the switch. I'm not going to worry too much about that right now, though. It's updated, that's all that matters.
Strange! That's all normal network traffic (not AVB) so I'm a little mystified. Can you PM me the make and model of your switch and router so we can see if we can reproduce (and fix) it on our end?
Old 24th December 2014
  #998
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rob61's Avatar
 

Hi mrmiller... thanks for monitoring this thread and offering support. I just grabbed a 16a for office and doing remotes with a PC (needed USB as my old MOTU required firewire and my new PC laptop doesn't have that). A couple questions :
1. With a laptop, to use the web browser app, can I directly connect using a standard network cable? It used to be without a router/switcher, you needed a "crossover" cable for direct connect with network devices.
2. Will there be an actual program like your earlier interfaces? While I like the network idea for many things, using Firefox is a bit sluggish compared to a dedicated application like CueMix.
Old 25th December 2014
  #999
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
If for whatever reason, 3 doesn't work as expected, you can read off the IP address from the front of the box by pressing the ID button and navigating to it directly (http://1248.local./ should also work until you change the name.)
I had to type in the IP address but other than that, the upgrade went fine. I just listen to some reference CD and so far have a very big smile on my face. But I use Sonar X3 and am having problems trying to get a low latency setting noise free. In the ASIO panel I using the Standard setting with a buffer size of 512 which gives me an effective latency of 11.6 ms in X3. For the most part this is glich free but I was hoping on getting it below 10 ms. Any suggestions?

Cheers,

jayson
Old 26th December 2014
  #1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob61 View Post
1. With a laptop, to use the web browser app, can I directly connect using a standard network cable? It used to be without a router/switcher, you needed a "crossover" cable for direct connect with network devices.
Most modern network interfaces handle the crossover for you. The interfaces should work fine with a standard network cable directly to the computer. That said, you can access the web app even if you're only connected via USB—the driver creates a virtual ethernet link to the interface.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob61 View Post
2. Will there be an actual program like your earlier interfaces? While I like the network idea for many things, using Firefox is a bit sluggish compared to a dedicated application like CueMix.
We have no plans for a native control application, though we've released an API that would let someone build their own if they wanted. If Firefox is sluggish, it might be worth giving another browser a try (Opera, Chrome, IE). And definitely let me know specific areas that seem sluggish. There's always room for optimization!
Old 26th December 2014
  #1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by KanaryProduction View Post
I had to type in the IP address but other than that, the upgrade went fine. I just listen to some reference CD and so far have a very big smile on my face. But I use Sonar X3 and am having problems trying to get a low latency setting noise free. In the ASIO panel I using the Standard setting with a buffer size of 512 which gives me an effective latency of 11.6 ms in X3. For the most part this is glich free but I was hoping on getting it below 10 ms. Any suggestions?
Glad you're up and running! Have you tried any of the USB Streaming Mode settings other than Standard? Try the lowest latency setting there and then try reducing the buffer size. Let me know how that works!
Old 26th December 2014
  #1002
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
Can someone say how many independent physical outputs the monitor 8 has?
the link in the message right above yours tells all.
or try this:
MOTU.com - Tech Specs
Old 26th December 2014
  #1003
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dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
the link in the message right above yours tells all.
or try this:
MOTU.com - Tech Specs
I saw the spec but can ALL outputs be accessed separately was the question. As in 16 or 18 independent outputs at equivalent quality.
Old 26th December 2014
  #1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
I saw the spec but can ALL outputs be accessed separately was the question. As in 16 or 18 independent outputs at equivalent quality.
There are 8 independent stereo outputs (16 channels): main outs, aux outs and 6 headphone output groups. Those output groups have multiple output formats (L-R TRS, stereo TRS, TS summed mono) but those aren't independent.
Old 26th December 2014
  #1005
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
There are 8 independent stereo outputs (16 channels): main outs, aux outs and 6 headphone output groups. Those output groups have multiple output formats (L-R TRS, stereo TRS, TS summed mono) but those aren't independent.
Thanks Mr Miller. I thought the spec was perfetly clear: 30 physical outs, only 16 channels...
Old 26th December 2014
  #1006
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dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Thanks Mr Miller. I thought the spec was perfetly clear: 30 physical outs, only 16 channels...
Bravo you!
Old 26th December 2014
  #1007
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dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
There are 8 independent stereo outputs (16 channels): main outs, aux outs and 6 headphone output groups. Those output groups have multiple output formats (L-R TRS, stereo TRS, TS summed mono) but those aren't independent.
Thanks for the extra info. I am still leaning towards the 16a but this would give some more flexibility. As I mentioned before, MOTU have a very interesting line up of interfaces. Great that they are offering such a varied line up.
Old 27th December 2014
  #1008
Gear Addict
 
rob61's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
That said, you can access the web app even if you're only connected via USB—the driver creates a virtual ethernet link to the interface.
I can't seem to get the 16a to run the full setup browser app to run when its only connected via MIDI. I tried removing the cat6, rebooting the 16a, but I can't get the web app to display. I get "Could not communicate with server" with Firefox. I am running Win 7. While the 16a is only connected with MIDI, the PC is still connected to the router for internet. Is that the problem?

I'm hoping to be able to link 2 16a in the future with cat6, with the laptop connecting to one 16a with MIDI only yet getting 24 channels (hopefully 32 in the future). Is this possible?
Old 27th December 2014
  #1009
I have a question about the AVB Switch that I can't find the answer to.

If I have two macs (say, a Mini and a MBP), one 1248 and one AVB Switch, can I send multi-channel digital audio from one mac to the other via ethernet or do I need a second MOTU AVB interface connected to the other mac?

VSL have already made this possible via VE Pro software and a simple £15 ethernet adapter, so I would hope the AVB switch is able to also achieve this, but in all the examples on the MOTU site they assume you will have an AVB interface attached to all Macs.

It would seem kind of unnecessary for me to get a second AVB interface for the second Mac if the digital audio was only ever being sent from it to the AVB switch, with nothing ever connected to the physical analog or digital I/O.
Old 28th December 2014
  #1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob61 View Post
I can't seem to get the 16a to run the full setup browser app to run when its only connected via MIDI. I tried removing the cat6, rebooting the 16a, but I can't get the web app to display. I get "Could not communicate with server" with Firefox. I am running Win 7. While the 16a is only connected with MIDI, the PC is still connected to the router for internet. Is that the problem?

I'm hoping to be able to link 2 16a in the future with cat6, with the laptop connecting to one 16a with MIDI only yet getting 24 channels (hopefully 32 in the future). Is this possible?
It looks like your setup isn't sending the web traffic to the interface via USB for some reason. I've looked into it on my end and think I can replicate what you're seeing. I'll look into a fix. For now, until you add a second interface, may as well keep the ethernet connected to your router.

It's definitely possible to connect a second interface without an AVB-capable switch by just linking them up with ethernet. I'll have to figure out the USB web proxy issues you're seeing before that will be truly effective, however. I'll get back to you on that!
Old 28th December 2014
  #1011
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
It's definitely possible to connect a second interface without an AVB-capable switch by just linking them up with ethernet. I'll have to figure out the USB web proxy issues you're seeing before that will be truly effective, however. I'll get back to you on that!
Maybe we have a related proxy-problem. We have a 2-interface setup, directly ethernet-linked without a switch, connected over a single USB to the DAW (Mac-Pro, OSX10.9, Cubase8).
After 'sleep' the connections to the interfaces are not restored in the DAW and do not show up in the discovery-app.
Old 28th December 2014
  #1012
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEMAS View Post
If I have two macs (say, a Mini and a MBP), one 1248 and one AVB Switch, can I send multi-channel digital audio from one mac to the other via ethernet or do I need a second MOTU AVB interface connected to the other mac?
It depends what you want the setup to be. In the simplest case, you could have a 1248 connected to Mac A via USB/TB and to Mac B via ethernet. In that case, you'd be able to play back audio from one machine and route it to the other. You could make a similar setup with two interfaces connected via USB or TB to their respective computers and linked by an ethernet cable. This would also work if you're using a PC or have an older Mac that doesn't have an AVB-capable ethernet card. Either way, you shouldn't need a switch. It's only when you have more than two interfaces networked that you need a switch.

If you were imagining connecting both Macs to a switch along with the interface, that won't work unfortunately. As of now, Apple's AVB driver acquires exclusive control of the interface stopping it from being shared with other AVB clients. One computer at a time would be able to use it, but you wouldn't be able to stream the audio from one computer to another, or even from one acquired interface to another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEMAS View Post
VSL have already made this possible via VE Pro software and a simple £15 ethernet adapter, so I would hope the AVB switch is able to also achieve this, but in all the examples on the MOTU site they assume you will have an AVB interface attached to all Macs.
Lots of software can stream audio over a network, e.g. Spotify or the Net Send AU that comes built-in to OS X. It's more a question of what features and guarantees the streaming offers. VEP is a great piece of software but because of their use case, their streaming doesn't need to be as full-featured as AVB's. It tends to be only a few channels of audio streamed directly from the slave to the host, which is responsible for sync. AVB was designed with large distributed and extensible setups and live performance in mind. As such, AVB makes strong guarantees about low latency, bandwidth for hundreds of channels and distributed, negotiated sync, and allows multiple clients to share streams. It's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison really because the use cases are so different.
Old 28th December 2014
  #1013
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by balijon View Post
Maybe we have a related proxy-problem. We have a 2-interface setup, directly ethernet-linked without a switch, connected over a single USB to the DAW (Mac-Pro, OSX10.9, Cubase8).
After 'sleep' the connections to the interfaces are not restored in the DAW and do not show up in the discovery-app.
I know less than nothing anbout Cubase, but wondering: Pro Tools does not like sleep when it is open. Are you using sleep when Cubase is open, or do you quit it first? Perhaps it needs to be closed before sleep...
Old 29th December 2014
  #1014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
It's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison really because the use cases are so different.
Yes I agree.

In my case I'm totally reconfiguring my studio with a strong emphasis on 'group performance of virtual instruments,' which inevitably requires multiple computers. Performing BFD3 through a bunch of fx at a very low buffer setting will on its own nearly max out a 16 gb Quad core i7.

VE Pro has been a great solution for me so far, but I find the way it interacts with Logic a bit clumsy - I don't like the way the server windows won't stay floating on top and it feels much like the old 32 bit bridge solution that you have to keep opening. I also find it misses the occasion MIDI note and needs a bit of pre roll to sync properly.

Therefore I'm searching for possible alternate methods to send multi-channel audio streams from my slave computers ( or 'performance Macs' might be a better title) to my main Logic DAW.

Thanks
Old 30th December 2014
  #1015
Here for the gear
 

Importance of diagnostics

I now have my 1248 system setup in an SKB 8u rack that I set at a stage at the foot of my microphone stands. I have a Gigabyte Brix (computer measures 4.7" x 4.2" x 1.5" with 16 GB RAM, 250 GB mSATA main drive and 250 GB SSD for recording. The Brix sits in the bottom of the rack along with the power supplies) integrated into the system and can remote desktop into the system from anywhere in an auditorium using a laptop/tablet (connected by Wi-Fi through an ASUS router that also allows remote control of HD cameras) and conduct/control the recording of a performance much more reliably than I did in 2006 using the original Traveler.

However, I still am unwilling to use it because there is no M/S encoder, FFT analyzer or X-Y display (Lissajous figures of phase relationships) and I regard those as absolutely essential for live work. That was THE distinguishing feature of MOTU MK3 interfaces which no one else had at any price. PLEASE ADD TO WEB UI AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

While you're at it please add a noise generator (white, pink, sine, square) so I don't have to carry more external gear. It is also desirable to pulse at least the white noise in varying increments (1 msec to 10 msec) in order to measure the reverb time in an auditorium and/or calculate the Q and frequency response of a speaker system or microphone.

I know you can do it! The DSP chip/platform can handle it and you have some of the best DSP programmers in the business (maybe THE best from what I've seen).
Old 30th December 2014
  #1016
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sijon View Post
I now have my 1248 system setup in an SKB 8u rack that I set at a stage at the foot of my microphone stands. edit
I know you can do it! The DSP chip/platform can handle it and you have some of the best DSP programmers in the business (maybe THE best from what I've seen).
Wow, a bit demanding, aren't we? Are you performing at the same time? If so, why do you want to watch those while singing or playing? Shouldn;t you be focusingon the music? Just get a bigger rack and add what you need. Sorry, but I use those things a lot with my Pro Tools rig, but wouldn't want them incorporated when I have Waves and SpectraFoo. If you are only recording, well, you might have a point, but still...

Be interesting to see what Mr Miller has to say...
Old 30th December 2014
  #1017
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loujudson's Avatar
Wow, over 1,000 messages now. I have had my 8M for a while, but just ordered an iMac with Thunderbolt so will be actually using it and retiring my Digi002R (BLA modded) which has served very well for ten years. I'm looking forward to taking advantage of some of the capabilities of these great interfaces! Starting from scratch on the new year...
Old 30th December 2014
  #1018
Here for the gear
 

I prefer to call it strong encouragement. The new interfaces offer a lot of improvements but should not give up on past capabilities, especially those that distinguished MOTU from all other companies. No, I'm not performing but I do record more than a hundred live performances a year, mostly professional classical music organizations, typically in 7 or 8 different states each year. Each venue is very different and with a two hour or less setup time for surround sound and HD video recording we look for the cleanest and quickest way to accomplish the task. We call it video enhanced audio recording as audio is the most important aspect. MOTU gear has been key in making it happen. We offer a money-back guarantee of our recordings if the organization/client is not satisfied for any reason including something it/he may have done. So the new gear with enhanced capabilities is very important but it's also important to not lose past capabilities and even add some that could have been in the earlier gear (a noise generator).
Old 30th December 2014
  #1019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sijon View Post
I now have my 1248 system setup in an SKB 8u rack that I set at a stage at the foot of my microphone stands. I have a Gigabyte Brix (computer measures 4.7" x 4.2" x 1.5" with 16 GB RAM, 250 GB mSATA main drive and 250 GB SSD for recording. The Brix sits in the bottom of the rack along with the power supplies) integrated into the system and can remote desktop into the system from anywhere in an auditorium using a laptop/tablet (connected by Wi-Fi through an ASUS router that also allows remote control of HD cameras) and conduct/control the recording of a performance much more reliably than I did in 2006 using the original Traveler.

However, I still am unwilling to use it because there is no M/S encoder, FFT analyzer or X-Y display (Lissajous figures of phase relationships) and I regard those as absolutely essential for live work. That was THE distinguishing feature of MOTU MK3 interfaces which no one else had at any price. PLEASE ADD TO WEB UI AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

While you're at it please add a noise generator (white, pink, sine, square) so I don't have to carry more external gear. It is also desirable to pulse at least the white noise in varying increments (1 msec to 10 msec) in order to measure the reverb time in an auditorium and/or calculate the Q and frequency response of a speaker system or microphone.

I know you can do it! The DSP chip/platform can handle it and you have some of the best DSP programmers in the business (maybe THE best from what I've seen).
And somehow only MOTU interfaces permit this kind of uber-scientific approach to recording? Fascinating....
Old 30th December 2014
  #1020
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sijon View Post
I prefer to call it strong encouragement. The new interfaces offer a lot of improvements but should not give up on past capabilities, especially those that distinguished MOTU from all other companies. No, I'm not performing but I do record more than a hundred live performances a year, mostly professional classical music organizations, typically in 7 or 8 different states each year. Each venue is very different and with a two hour or less setup time for surround sound and HD video recording we look for the cleanest and quickest way to accomplish the task. We call it video enhanced audio recording as audio is the most important aspect. MOTU gear has been key in making it happen. We offer a money-back guarantee of our recordings if the organization/client is not satisfied for any reason including something it/he may have done. So the new gear with enhanced capabilities is very important but it's also important to not lose past capabilities and even add some that could have been in the earlier gear (a noise generator).
I see. I'm only into music, no use for video, so different strokes! Nothing distracts me from music more than some fancy camera moves and inappropriate closeups... but I don't see a lot of movies either so sorry, I didn't mean to be critical! :-)
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