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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 19th December 2014
  #961
Quote:
Originally Posted by jw408 View Post
Thanks, that's helpful, it's definitely in the same range as the RME.

On the babyface I'm seeing 5.62ms/248 samples RTL, 64 sample buffer, 44.1khz, but I already sent that back (not enough inputs) and the UFX is in UPS's hands until tomorrow.
To make it an apples-to-apples comparison, I'm seeing ~258 samples RTL at 64 sample buffer, 44.1khz. This is bypassing the internal mixer, which will add an additional 6 samples.
Old 19th December 2014
  #962
nms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jw408 View Post
+1. I wanted to get a 1248 on the strength of the specs/converters, but seeing the windows drivers as second tier to the mac and a lack of windows TB support (yes, I have an X99 mobo with thunderbolt) I decided to just get an RME UFX because of the driver quality and the fact that it's a proven, stable platform.
Condolences man.

Quote:
I guess I have 30 days to change my mind...
Nice! Get rid of it!

UFX conversion is fine enough for plenty of people, and the drivers are solid as we all know. I think it would be a very poor purchase choice though against a 1248. The recent developments in the converter market these past 2-3 yrs have shaken things up and raised the bar for what you can get for your money. Considering you have an X99 mobo, it just makes sense to go for the option that has better converters, better connectivity, USB for now and the option to run TB later.

As for the mac drivers being prioritized first, it makes complete business sense since all the new macs have TB (and new Mac Pro eliminated pcie) but the PC market has been dragging its ass. I thought they'd have it together by now and everyone would be stocking TB cards for X99 boards, but still we sit and wait. I wouldn't worry about Motu's usb drivers though. I don't expect them to provide RME level performance, but their windows drivers have been decent enough in recent times to not worry about. And of course you always have the option of picking up an RME RayDat to run it with if you want better low latency performance and you get tired of waiting for TB on Windows.
Old 19th December 2014
  #963
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As soon as I saw Windows drivers were available, I got my order in for a MOTU 1248! I'm really looking forward to trying it out but I'm expecting that unit I get won't have the correct firmware to install the Windows USB drivers. From what I've read and watched on the support site, should I proceed as follows?

1. Download the MOTU software and install it.
2. Connect my 1248 via a network cable to my router for internet access.
3. Launch the MOTU AVB web app from my PC and it should detect my 1248 on my network.
4. Click on the 1248 and then select how I plan you use it (Audit Interface)
5. Click on the Device tab and I should see that an update is available.
6. Agree to the update installation and wait for it to complete.
7. Connect my 1248 via USB to my PC and let Windows install the audio driver.
8. Keep the network connected so I can wirelessly control the unit.

Missing anything or got it all wrong?

Cheers,

KanaryProductions
Old 19th December 2014
  #964
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jw408 View Post
+1. I wanted to get a 1248 on the strength of the specs/converters, but seeing the windows drivers as second tier to the mac and a lack of windows TB support (yes, I have an X99 mobo with thunderbolt) I decided to just get an RME UFX because of the driver quality and the fact that it's a proven, stable platform.

Does anyone have latency numbers for windows over USB? Are there any DAWbench type "this is how many VSTs you can run," with this interface?

I guess I have 30 days to change my mind...
I guess we're in the same quandry. I love the MOTU stuff I've used and I'm massively impressed with mrmiller's input and the 'approachability' of MOTU on this subject.

I would love to buy into that again for my next update, but I can't quite justify it if I'm forced to run over USB2. Despite the figures, experience tells me that USB2 just isn't up to the Mark (... Of The Unicorn)

I need a USB3 or Firewire device and I guess it's this that's going to steer my purchase... which I accept is annoying. The rest of my rig is simply too good and too stable to amend at present.
Old 19th December 2014
  #965
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by d. gauss View Post
anybody compared these converters (16a) to the antelope orion/zen?
anybody?
Old 19th December 2014
  #966
nms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d. gauss View Post
anybody?
1248 &16a for converter quality and better connectivity. It's much easier for a company like Motu to offer a lot more for your money than a smaller company like Antelope who have much higher mark ups.
Old 19th December 2014
  #967
Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
1248 hands down for converter quality. It's much easier for a company like Motu to offer far more for your money than a smaller company like Antelope who have much higher markups.
Curious if you've actually heard the MOTU stuff yet? All of your responses prior to this have been based on the specs, not actually having heard/used the units. Not trying to be an ass, just want to get the facts straight (I say this as a 16A owner who HAS compared it with a number of other units).
Old 19th December 2014
  #968
nms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleen View Post
All of your responses prior to this have been based on the specs
That depends on how loose your definition of specs is. My feedback on the unit has been based on tests I arranged (tests I have done on over 50 other converters) and knowledge of some of the fundamental component & design choices which help to explain why it tests so well.

If you're looking for random subjective anecdotes perceived by strangers on the internet I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding that.
Old 19th December 2014
  #969
So how is clocking accounted for in your tests - this is one of the supposed strong points of the Antelope series, no?

(and seems weaker on the Motu units to my ears - happily using a 1248 clocked off a big ben to suit my preference here)
Old 19th December 2014
  #970
Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
That depends on how loose your definition of specs is. My feedback on the unit has been based on tests I arranged (tests I have done on over 50 other converters) and knowledge of some of the fundamental component & design choices which help to explain why it tests so well.

If you're looking for random subjective anecdotes perceived by strangers on the internet I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding that.
So you're saying you've still never actually heard/used one?
Old 19th December 2014
  #971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
(tests I have done on over 50 other converters) and knowledge of some of the fundamental component & design choices which help to explain why it tests so well.

.
Hard to believe that you test 50 unit……...
Old 19th December 2014
  #972
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleen View Post
.(I say this as a 16A owner who HAS compared it with a number of other units).
and your conclusions were?
Old 19th December 2014
  #973
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
1248 &16a for converter quality and better connectivity.
you've listened side by side?
Old 19th December 2014
  #974
Quote:
Originally Posted by d. gauss View Post
and your conclusions were?
Well, I bought the 16A when I was all prepared to splash out on a Symphony or Apollo 16 after demoing them all, so that says a lot in my book.
Old 19th December 2014
  #975
Quote:
Originally Posted by KanaryProduction View Post
As soon as I saw Windows drivers were available, I got my order in for a MOTU 1248! I'm really looking forward to trying it out but I'm expecting that unit I get won't have the correct firmware to install the Windows USB drivers. From what I've read and watched on the support site, should I proceed as follows?

1. Download the MOTU software and install it.
2. Connect my 1248 via a network cable to my router for internet access.
3. Launch the MOTU AVB web app from my PC and it should detect my 1248 on my network.
4. Click on the 1248 and then select how I plan you use it (Audit Interface)
5. Click on the Device tab and I should see that an update is available.
6. Agree to the update installation and wait for it to complete.
7. Connect my 1248 via USB to my PC and let Windows install the audio driver.
8. Keep the network connected so I can wirelessly control the unit.

Missing anything or got it all wrong?

Cheers,

KanaryProductions
That's pretty much it! The full-blown AVB discovery app isn't available on Windows yet. We wanted to get the driver to you as quickly as possible rather than hold it up any longer. There's instead a shortcut that brings you to a web-based list of discovered devices. If for whatever reason, 3 doesn't work as expected, you can read off the IP address from the front of the box by pressing the ID button and navigating to it directly (http://1248.local./ should also work until you change the name.)

As for 8, you may not actually need to keep it connected to the wireless but there's no harm in doing that. It will make future updates easier. Part of the driver is a proxy server that shows up in the discovery app and shuttles the web traffic to the interface over USB (or Thunderbolt).
Old 19th December 2014
  #976
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
Monitor 8 manual typo? Page 10:

7. input TRS disconnect ring for unbal use? That's opposite of all the others. Assume this applies instead to section 6.
Good catch—fixed! Like the other interfaces in the line, inputs accept either TS or TRS just fine. You only need to disconnect the ring when outputting to an unbalanced device.
Old 19th December 2014
  #977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleen View Post
Well, I bought the 16A when I was all prepared to splash out on a Symphony or Apollo 16 after demoing them all, so that says a lot in my book.

Bleen i trust you , i heard your work, if you said it's good…….

No external converter only the 16 A ?????
Old 19th December 2014
  #978
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbone View Post
Bleen i trust you , i heard your work, if you said it's good…….

No external converter only the 16 A ?????
Just the 16A. Honestly, there are a TON of great converters out today. If your (not you specifically, Jean, the general "you") music sounds crappy, I can guarantee it's not the fault of the converter if it's one made in the last 5 or so years.
Old 19th December 2014
  #979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleen View Post
Just the 16A. Honestly, there are a TON of great converters out today. If your (not you specifically, Jean, the general "you") music sounds crappy, I can guarantee it's not the fault of the converter if it's one made in the last 5 or so years.
I was looking for a new interface with at least 10 I\O to record, and i got
some nice pre's, i was not sure if i want to spend the cash on some very expensive
unit, i guess i found what i was looking for…… Thank you.

I agree about the " crapy sound"…. Not that mine is crapy…..
Old 20th December 2014
  #980
nms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbone View Post
Hard to believe that you test 50 unit……...
I coordinated the biggest Adda converter test thread that's been done to date, but it's a controversial subject and at over 200k views and 2k replies it needed the plug pulled eventually. Too time consuming to maintain and deal with the inevitable troll problem plus all the RME users who were pissed at how poorly their units tested. Had a good run but we burnt that mother down eventually!

@Hardtoe - You're still the only one who's observed any clocking differences. Loopback tests aren't a good way to test clocking though. If I do pick up a 1248 I'll test it clocked off my Hilo and give a full report plus post files.

Pairing one of these with a Hilo you're golden either way. If anyone wants to go that route JRR shop has them for around $1900 using a coupon code. Crazy deal. Pm me for details.
Old 20th December 2014
  #981
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Still speaking highly of the unheard there, nms?
Old 20th December 2014
  #982
Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
@Hardtoe - You're still the only one who's observed any clocking differences. Loopback tests aren't a good way to test clocking though. If I do pick up a 1248 I'll test it clocked off my Hilo and give a full report plus post files.
So how can you comment on the quality of the conversion of various convertors you have tested (but not heard), if clocking isn't accounted for in your test?

Isn't clocking a major factor in the sound of a convertor?

It would seem your test is good for identifying some possible contenders and then using listening to finalize the review, no?

Am I missing something obvious here?
Old 20th December 2014
  #983
nms
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@Hardtoe - Clocking is an extremely controversial subject. The methods I use show a great deal about how well a converter is designed. It just turns out that the ones which are designed to test so well don't have badly implemented clocking. Units like the Hilo, Symphony, MH ULN8, Lavry, these are the top performers in testing, and as we know they are all well designed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Still speaking highly of the unheard there, nms?
Yes. One day if you learn more about testing adda converters you may understand better. Til then I suspect the notion of using anything other than your ears will remain blasphemy, so unless you want to get into it again I'd suggest chatting up someone else
Old 20th December 2014
  #984
Gear Guru
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
@Hardtoe - Clocking is an extremely controversial subject. The methods I use show a great deal about how well a converter is designed. It just usually turns out that the ones which are designed to test so well don't have badly implemented clocking.

Yes. One day if you learn more about testing adda converters you may understand better. Til then I suspect the notion of using anything other than your ears will remain blasphemy, so unless you want to get into it again I'd suggest chatting up someone else.
Keep yer panties on, I ain't chattin you up. Just checking whether you had done yer homework yet.
Old 20th December 2014
  #985
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post

As for 8, you may not actually need to keep it connected to the wireless but there's no harm in doing that. It will make future updates easier. Part of the driver is a proxy server that shows up in the discovery app and shuttles the web traffic to the interface over USB (or Thunderbolt).
So the 1248 will show up as a device on my network via USB only? Thanks.

Cheers,

KanaryProductions
Old 20th December 2014
  #986
Quote:
Originally Posted by KanaryProduction View Post
So the 1248 will show up as a device on my network via USB only? Thanks.
Practically speaking, yes. Technically nitpicking, it's the computer it's connected to that's showing up and it's forwarding the requests to the 1248 over USB and back. You can access it locally via http://localhost:1280 (the local computer's port 1280) and another computer will be able to see it by replacing "localhost" with your host computer's IP address (e.g. http://192.168.1.103:1280). It should also show up in the iOS discovery app, etc. The interface may not show up if the firmware isn't at least at version 1.1.2, though, so I'd stick with the plan you outlined to start.
Old 20th December 2014
  #987
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
Practically speaking, yes. Technically nitpicking, it's the computer it's connected to that's showing up and it's forwarding the requests to the 1248 over USB and back. You can access it locally via http://localhost:1280 (the local computer's port 1280) and another computer will be able to see it by replacing "localhost" with your host computer's IP address (e.g. http://192.168.1.103:1280). It should also show up in the iOS discovery app, etc. The interface may not show up if the firmware isn't at least at version 1.1.2, though, so I'd stick with the plan you outlined to start.
I'll keep it wired to the router. Thanks.

Cheers,

KanaryProductions
Old 22nd December 2014
  #988
a2m
Gear Nut
 

Hello All,

I very interested to know something more about the dsp power of the 1248/8M.
Have a few questions:

1. Would it be possible to have the following on at the same time:
- 4band-eq/compressor on every input channel (16 inputs)
- 1 stereo reverb
- 4band-eq/compressor on the 8 aux outs
- 4band-eq/compressor/leveler on stereo main out

2. I am thinking about running in 48k, would the dsp be cut in 1/2 when switching to 96k?

3. If the unit is set to 96k, do the adat-inputs still work with 48k signals? Or do they need a 96k signal?

4. Does the ipad connection via usb also allow for 96k recordings over the camerakit?

5. Would it be possible to have a small graphic representation (curve) of the eq settings when changing in the web interface. (I know you can use q-factor, but it would be nice to see what you do also)

Hope to hear some news.

Regards,

RJB
Old 22nd December 2014
  #989
Gear Head
Hi Mr Miller,

Would it hurt the device if I were to connect via USB and TB at the same time?

I have a WIN/OSX dualboot (hackintosh) and would like to use the unit on both OS'es without switching cables..
Old 22nd December 2014
  #990
Gear Addict
 

Does anyone know how long the firmware update process should take? I've got my 16A on the network and started the firmware update via the web UI but it seems to be taking forever to do anything. The web UI just says "Waiting for device..." and the 16A shows "Update mode" along with the local network address. I'm on Windows FWIW but so far I've not even connected it to my PC since the new firmware version 1.1.2 must be installed first...

EDIT: looks like the web UI has just given up and now says "Timed out waiting for server for http://192.168.1.82/update". The 16A is still the same.
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