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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 17th December 2014
  #931
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum7 View Post
GREAT!!!! .....except no one has them in stock it seems until next month. Oh well, I'll have something to look forward to next month.....and I'll have time to get the thunderbolt option for my MB.
Hmm... I spoke with our mid-West sales rep and he said dealers should have stock. Out of curiosity, which retailers were you looking at? As far as online vendors, Sweetwater, B&H and Amazon seem to have stock.
Old 17th December 2014
  #932
Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
I get a feeling like they are revising them, hence the lack of stock. A lot of us are waiting to see what happens with that, and I'd imagine Motu may be waiting as well.

Michael, any word at all on TB with Windows users? Am I correct here?
The availability of Thunderbolt on PCs (or rather, lack thereof) is a real issue and something that we're watching closely. We're still weighing our options as far as how best to get higher channel counts and lower latency to Windows users.
Old 17th December 2014
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
I get a feeling like they are revising them, hence the lack of stock. A lot of us are waiting to see what happens with that, and I'd imagine Motu may be waiting as well.

Michael, any word at all on TB with Windows users? Am I correct here?
I don't build my computers from the motherboard up as much as I used to, primarily because my primary machines are now laptops and tablets. But based on what I'm seeing, I don't think it is a simple updating of Thunderbolt...in my opinion there is a real problem with Thunderbolt on the PC side. It seems worse than Firewire but will likely follow that course...it made an attempt on the PC but never made much headway while still being a primary interface for Macs. And frankly, with USB3, is Thunderbolt really needed...rhetorical question as unfortunately the market and therefore dollars will decide that. Unless Intel bakes in (better) support for Thunderbolt in their next chipsets, I think it may be curtains for TB on PCs. I hope I'm wrong.
Old 17th December 2014
  #934
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Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
The availability of Thunderbolt on PCs (or rather, lack thereof) is a real issue and something that we're watching closely. We're still weighing our options as far as how best to get higher channel counts and lower latency to Windows users.
I do think PC users are willing to jump through a hoop or two to get supported TB chipsets like we were with securing TI equipped FW cards, especially if it means straightforward access to all the features of these interfaces. Though AVB seems smart too. I'd use anything you support to get over that 24 mark with the 16a, TBH. I only use that much on remotes, otherwise my i/o needs are modest.
Old 17th December 2014
  #935
With the new firmware, today I was able to send SPDIF out the ADAT A port to an optical-to-AES converter to send to a Tascam DA-3000. Going to add a UA 2192 now that this works perfectly.
Old 17th December 2014
  #936
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DiDi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
Thanks for the feedback! I've filed a bug report. Out of curiosity, what device are you using—Surface or something else? IE10 or 11?
I use 2 touchscreen systems here. One is a Sony Tap21 21.5" tablet, and the other is an Iconia 6120 dual touch screen TouchBook Both run Win8.1 Pro and IE11
Old 17th December 2014
  #937
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DiDi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleen View Post
With the new firmware, today I was able to send SPDIF out the ADAT A port to an optical-to-AES converter to send to a Tascam DA-3000. Going to add a UA 2192 now that this works perfectly.
Yup, I've got S/P-dif on optical A running as well. Was pleased to see that available in the latest firmware update!
Old 17th December 2014
  #938
nms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
in my opinion there is a real problem with Thunderbolt on the PC side. It seems worse than Firewire but will likely follow that course...it made an attempt on the PC but never made much headway while still being a primary interface for Macs.
What is that problem you're speaking of? X99 is the first time Intel have allowed the TB to hang directly off the PCIe instead of the PCH. Mac has been the priority, but that's because it should be since the new Macs all have TB and no pcie.

Quote:
And frankly, with USB3, is Thunderbolt really needed...
Look at USB3. Its on all machines, but there are reasons interface manufacturers haven't been adopting it. TB is better. Apple & Intel have solidified TB's future. I doubt there's anything you could say it doesn't provide that we should want for in another protocol. We're just stuck with having to wait for PC and o catch up unfortunately.
Old 17th December 2014
  #939
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Fair enough. I was about to prove my point and I sort of proved yours. A few weeks ago when a friend first put me onto the Motu, I started looking for motherboards or adapter cards with Thunderbolt and like I said, none of the major online retailers had anything...all sold out. Well, I just went to Newegg and at least found a couple Gigabyte motherboards in stock that have built-in Thunderbolt. But Asus is still conspicuously absent (they used to have several motherboards with Thunderbolt) as well as the Thunderbolt adapter card they had for some of their motherboards.

I guess you're right that Thunderbolt is just slow to adopt on PC but it seems glacial right now.
Old 17th December 2014
  #940
Here's a couple of comparison mixes. One through MOTU 2408mk3s and another through the 16As. Both made a trip out through my Toft console and outboard, 22 channels, and the 2bus back in. I barely touched the console since getting the 16As and took pictures, but the recall may not be exact. I also heard things when listening through the 16As that I would have changed(drum fill at intro), but wanted to keep the settings as close to the other mix as possible. -- had to push the level a little more in my hillbilly mastering (Ozone 5) on the 16A mix to get it match the 2408 mix.

EDIT: Tried to upload 320/MP3s, but would't let me. I'll use Soundcloud - can't get it to embed :(

https://soundcloud.com/robby-albrech...408mix/s-tic5n

https://soundcloud.com/robby-albrech...16amix/s-yiCH2
Old 17th December 2014
  #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robby in WA View Post
Here's a couple of comparison mixes. One through MOTU 2408mk3s and another through the 16As. Both made a trip out through my Toft console and outboard, 22 channels, and the 2bus back in. I barely touched the console since getting the 16As and took pictures, but the recall may not be exact. I also heard things when listening through the 16As that I would have changed(drum fill at intro), but wanted to keep the settings as close to the other mix as possible. -- had to push the level a little more in my hillbilly mastering (Ozone 5) on the 16A mix to get it match the 2408 mix.
Hi Robby
Genuinely grateful for the effort, but for me there are a way too many variables in that chain for a viable a/b comparison.
Old 17th December 2014
  #942
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Hi Guys

Hope you can help. I've been following this thread quite closely and am not sure how to proceed.

In short, I have a stellar rig that all runs beautifully. SSDs, 6 cores at up to 3.9Ghz, 32 GB ram, focal monitors etc. All good.

Maybe weirdly, but all due to respect to MOTU's longevity, I run an ultralite mkIII over firewire. I have great outboard pre's so only need the card to run the conversion and despite looking at many other options over the years the ultralite still seems to do this with the least glitches. Quality-wise, I could now do better, but power-wise it's unbelieveably stable and I cannot afford to sacrifice that.

I know that running the ultralite on USB is not as stable and cannot run as many tracks at low latency (despite the speed advantage of USB on paper, the way it carries these signals in packets just doesn't work well for audio). Over firewire I can run huge projects at 88.1k at down to 128 samples including loads of EastWest samples and the like and can still track inside cubase with about 6ms latency (RTL), which for me is the absolute upper limit of what's useable for a musician in the studio.

I'd jump ship to the new 16A and or monitor 8 tomorrow if it ran over firewire. My MOBO is not thunderbolt capable (P9x79) so I'd be forced to run via USB. Bottom line is, if it is not capable of running at lower latency and as glitch-free as my current firewire option then the upgrade makes no sense workflow/useability-wise.

Can anyone provide me with any details to help verify this one way or another, or a pathway through which I could trial one of the units on my rig and quickly see if it really would constitute an upgrade.
Old 17th December 2014
  #943
Quote:
Originally Posted by promenade View Post
Hi Robby
Genuinely grateful for the effort, but for me there are a way too many variables in that chain for a viable a/b comparison.
Agree. I did my best to leave all the settings the same, but it sounds really different. It was recorded through 2408s ( and UA 4710d)


EDIT: I mixed it w/what I heard on the 2408s, so that mix has more punch. We recorded some new stuff last night and the 16As sound amazing @ 88k.
Old 17th December 2014
  #944
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Quantum7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
Hmm... I spoke with our mid-West sales rep and he said dealers should have stock. Out of curiosity, which retailers were you looking at? As far as online vendors, Sweetwater, B&H and Amazon seem to have stock.
Thanks- I guess I was looking at all the wrong places. I'll be ordering one from Sweetwater tomorrow.

nms is the one who got me interested in the MOTU 1248......when I was originally looking at saving for a Prism Orpheus. Hopefully the hype on the 1248 is true.....because it's going to save me a lot of $ dough!!!!
Old 18th December 2014
  #945
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
I don't see a manual pdf for the Monitor 8 yet, curious to have a look.
The manual for the Monitor 8 is now available at MOTU.com - AVB (http://cdn-data.motu.com/manuals/avb...User_Guide.pdf). Thanks for your patience!
Old 18th December 2014
  #946
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What optical spidf to rca spidf convertor are you guys using to get the spidf to run on these?
Old 18th December 2014
  #947
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My apologies in advance if this question has been asked and answered:

Does the 1248 run "hot"? Would it be advisable to leave a rack space on either side of the unit, like the Apogee's?
Old 18th December 2014
  #948
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My apologies in advance if this question has been asked and answered:

Does the 1248 run "hot"? Would it be advisable to leave a rack space on either side of the unit, like the Apogee's?
Old 18th December 2014
  #949
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DiDi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dandeurloo View Post
What optical spidf to rca spidf convertor are you guys using to get the spidf to run on these?
I'm using Toslink on both ends, so no Toslink to RCA SPdif is needed here. The 1248 also has copper SPdif if I need it.
Old 18th December 2014
  #950
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emrr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P View Post
Does the 1248 run "hot"? Would it be advisable to leave a rack space on either side of the unit, like the Apogee's?
The manual advises it. Worth downloading for a read.
Old 18th December 2014
  #951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
The manual advises it. Worth downloading for a read.
Thank you!
Old 18th December 2014
  #952
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emrr's Avatar
Monitor 8 manual typo? Page 10:

7. input TRS disconnect ring for unbal use? That's opposite of all the others. Assume this applies instead to section 6.


Looks like no problem to use the Monitor 8 as 8 additional analog ins, 8 additional analog channel outs, 2 separate headphone mixes directly to 2 pairs of phones, and 2 control room speaker pairs. Or 10 additional analog channel outs and 1 control room speaker pair. Pretty flexible.

Now I'm curious how the differing input converters within the AVB line compare sonically.
Old 18th December 2014
  #953
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anybody compared these converters (16a) to the antelope orion/zen?
Old 18th December 2014
  #954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P View Post
Does the 1248 run "hot"? Would it be advisable to leave a rack space on either side of the unit, like the Apogee's?
The interfaces were designed to be fan-less and run on the hotter side as a result. We stress test in-house with a bunch of them stacked in a rack and they're doing great. If you have space in your rack to give them breathing room, though, I'd definitely recommend it.
Old 18th December 2014
  #955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
The interfaces were designed to be fan-less and run on the hotter side as a result. We stress test in-house with a bunch of them stacked in a rack and they're doing great. If you have space in your rack to give them breathing room, though, I'd definitely recommend it.
I have plenty of rack space, so I will definitely rack with a vented space on either side.

Thank you very much!
Old 18th December 2014
  #956
Quote:
Originally Posted by promenade View Post
I know that running the ultralite on USB is not as stable and cannot run as many tracks at low latency (despite the speed advantage of USB on paper, the way it carries these signals in packets just doesn't work well for audio). Over firewire I can run huge projects at 88.1k at down to 128 samples including loads of EastWest samples and the like and can still track inside cubase with about 6ms latency (RTL), which for me is the absolute upper limit of what's useable for a musician in the studio.

I'd jump ship to the new 16A and or monitor 8 tomorrow if it ran over firewire. My MOBO is not thunderbolt capable (P9x79) so I'd be forced to run via USB. Bottom line is, if it is not capable of running at lower latency and as glitch-free as my current firewire option then the upgrade makes no sense workflow/useability-wise.
If you're running at 88.1khz, I suspect you'll be able to keep the latency under 6ms even over USB. You shouldn't be having any issues with glitching either. We're able to do 24x24 channels over USB currently and we're working to bump that up to 32x32 for 1x and 2x rates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by promenade View Post
Can anyone provide me with any details to help verify this one way or another, or a pathway through which I could trial one of the units on my rig and quickly see if it really would constitute an upgrade.
There are a couple Windows users here already so they might be able to give you an unbiased, third-party assessment of the performance on Windows. Alternatively, you could ask if any of your local audio shops have loaners. Worst case, many retailers have generous return policies that would give you 30 days or so to evaluate it and see that it (hopefully!) works great.
Old 18th December 2014
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post

There are a couple Windows users here already so they might be able to give you an unbiased, third-party assessment of the performance on Windows. Alternatively, you could ask if any of your local audio shops have loaners. Worst case, many retailers have generous return policies that would give you 30 days or so to evaluate it and see that it (hopefully!) works great.
"Step right up ladies and gentlemen"
Old 18th December 2014
  #958
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by promenade View Post
"Step right up ladies and gentlemen"
+1. I wanted to get a 1248 on the strength of the specs/converters, but seeing the windows drivers as second tier to the mac and a lack of windows TB support (yes, I have an X99 mobo with thunderbolt) I decided to just get an RME UFX because of the driver quality and the fact that it's a proven, stable platform.

Does anyone have latency numbers for windows over USB? Are there any DAWbench type "this is how many VSTs you can run," with this interface?

I guess I have 30 days to change my mind...
Old 19th December 2014
  #959
Quote:
Originally Posted by jw408 View Post
+1. I wanted to get a 1248 on the strength of the specs/converters, but seeing the windows drivers as second tier to the mac and a lack of windows TB support (yes, I have an X99 mobo with thunderbolt) I decided to just get an RME UFX because of the driver quality and the fact that it's a proven, stable platform.

Does anyone have latency numbers for windows over USB? Are there any DAWbench type "this is how many VSTs you can run," with this interface?

I guess I have 30 days to change my mind...
I don't have any real-world benchmarks for you, unfortunately, but I can tell you the latencies recorded through CEntrance Latency Test Utility (CEntrance -> Latency Test Utility) which I chose because I think the DAWBench people use it. At 44.1khz, the RTL is ~384 samples with a 128 sample buffer (~8.7ms). At 96khz, I measured ~503 samples at 96khz (~5.2ms.)
Old 19th December 2014
  #960
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
I don't have any real-world benchmarks for you, unfortunately, but I can tell you the latencies recorded through CEntrance Latency Test Utility (CEntrance -> Latency Test Utility) which I chose because I think the DAWBench people use it. At 44.1khz, the RTL is ~384 samples with a 128 sample buffer (~8.7ms). At 96khz, I measured ~503 samples at 96khz (~5.2ms.)
Thanks, that's helpful, it's definitely in the same range as the RME.

On the babyface I'm seeing 5.62ms/248 samples RTL, 64 sample buffer, 44.1khz, but I already sent that back (not enough inputs) and the UFX is in UPS's hands until tomorrow.
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