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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 4th November 2014
  #721
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emrr's Avatar
That's a normal part of MOTU's assembly process. It's seen on every one of their products I've owned.
Old 4th November 2014
  #722
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pingaton's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
That's a normal part of MOTU's assembly process. It's seen on every one of their products I've owned.
OK. Thanks for the information.

I guess I am a little bit spoiled ;-) by the manufacturer of my other interface that is build like a tank and with a high attention to even smallest details...
Old 4th November 2014
  #723
and what does it cost?

Mine is like that too, but I never noticed until your post, ha ha
Old 4th November 2014
  #724
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pingaton's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe View Post
and what does it cost?

Mine is like that too, but I never noticed until your post, ha ha
I agree: at this price point and with such features, MOTU AVB line does not have much competition.
From my first tests, converters do pretty good work, latency in DAW is OK, mixer app could be a little bit more responsive, but I can live with that. I guess a native app would perform better. I wonder if we can expect one.
Old 4th November 2014
  #725
Here for the gear
 

Those hexagonal imprints on the front panel are from a threaded standoff, called a PEM, made by Penn Engineering. Panels are milled or drilled very slightly; filled with red Locktite; and the PEM nut is then pressed into the panel for a clinched permanent installation. This allows securing printed circuit boards and displays to the panel without screws or bolt heads showing. Pressing the PEM nut into place causes slight metal displacement thus the outline of the PEM nut is slightly visible. It's actually a great assembly system - very strong and nearly invisible. Be glad MOTU uses it!
Old 4th November 2014
  #726
Here for the gear
 

I miss diagnostics.

I am very very impressed with the concepts and realizations I see in my new 1248. I know about manufacturing and can tell that several years of thought and effort have gone into this system. Congratulations! Great job! There's nothing like it at any price.

I would like to see the dual-matrix added to the Mic preamps to allow Mid-Side (M/S) microphones. This is available on all inputs in the MKIII series using CueMix FX. I use an M/S microphone in every recording to anchor the image. It generates the most accurate and stable image of any microphone system.

I record on location only. My primary recording is into Sony Vegas but I also make a backup to a Tascam DA-3000 which is a two channel flash recorder. It is imperative that my backup is a "final" mix. I use 1 buss of the MOTU Traveler to feed the DA-3000. So I make extensive use of the FFT analyzer and X-Y Plot tools in CueMixFX in order to know my room filtering and microphone placement are correct.

If I have to provide sound and record at the same time I also use a noise generator to setup the loudspeakers. Currently I use a separate generator but the DSP in the 1248 can easily handle that.

To summarize: Please add M/S capability and bring back diagnostics to include FFT analysis, X-Y (Phase) plotting, and a noise generator (white, pink, sine wave).
Old 5th November 2014
  #727
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
If both are connected via USB, they'd show up as two separate interfaces. I don't know Pyramix well, but if you have a way to aggregate devices like Audio MIDI Setup on Mac or Digital Performer, you could use that and connect both via USB perhaps to get your target 30 channels.

If you connect one interface to your PC directly and connect the other via AVB or ADAT to the first, you'll get the computer I/O from one of the boxes which you can route as you please to and from the other box. We're stilling working out Windows, but using Mac as a benchmark, USB is limited to 24 channels in each direction. USB drivers for Windows are coming before Thunderbolt and TB is still quite uncommon in the PC world anyways.
I have troubles fully understanding it - but this could be a deal breaker for us. Due to the way we implement our digital XOs (custom build Neville-Thiele FIR convolution approach) we don't have the option of aggregating multiple devices. What we would require is that the (PC) ASIO driver provides eg. a single 24in24out "logical device" when connected via USB (and accordingly more available channels when TB and direct AVB support gets ready).

Let's say we buy an 16A and an 1248. We connect one per USB to our Win PC, the other per RJ45 with each other. Please help us understand: Do the ASIO/WDM drivers:

(1) provide an "logical device" with just the channels of the interface directly connected to the PC (eg. 16in/16out with the 16A). The channels of the other interfaces on the AVB net would need to be routed to this 16in/16out accordingly and/or show up as additional devices.

(2) provide a single logical device with as many channels as supported by the used interface of the direct connect (e.g. USB 24in/24out). We can simply route/mix all channels of every connected interface on the AVB net onto this "24in/24out container/logical device".

We are hoping for (2) ;-)


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
After talking with some of the other engineers, we think it would be too large a change for anytime in the near future, unfortunately. While the DAC can support DSD as you've said, the rest of the drivers, control software and internals aren't ready for it. I've added it to our list of feature requests nevertheless, and it's something we'll keep in mind down the line!
That's a real pity! Ultimately we don't require it "in the near future", but we would like assurance that the current AVB line up can support it (regarding internals/hardware) down the line if the drivers/control software/firmware would get updated accordingly! Thank you!
Old 5th November 2014
  #728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionsclaw View Post
Let's say we buy an 16A and an 1248. We connect one per USB to our Win PC, the other per RJ45 with each other. Please help us understand: Do the ASIO/WDM drivers:

(1) provide an "logical device" with just the channels of the interface directly connected to the PC (eg. 16in/16out with the 16A). The channels of the other interfaces on the AVB net would need to be routed to this 16in/16out accordingly and/or show up as additional devices.

(2) provide a single logical device with as many channels as supported by the used interface of the direct connect (e.g. USB 24in/24out). We can simply route/mix all channels of every connected interface on the AVB net onto this "24in/24out container/logical device".
Sorry I wasn't clearer! It's (2): you get 24x24 channels in and out of the computer over USB but those can be whatever you would like. You can route those computer connections however you please, whether it be physical ins on the box itself or channels coming from the other box over AVB or channels from the mixer. Does that make sense?

I was confused because you mentioned 30 channels into the PC over USB. If you tried to plug two interfaces in over USB to get around the channel limitations in and out of the PC, then you would need some way to aggregate them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionsclaw View Post
That's a real pity! Ultimately we don't require it "in the near future", but we would like assurance that the current AVB line up can support it (regarding internals/hardware) down the line if the drivers/control software/firmware would get updated accordingly! Thank you!
I can't guarantee that DSD playback will ever get implemented. The DAC is capable of DSD but nothing else is built to handle that. If DSD playback is crucial to your use case, I would not recommend betting on this feature getting added.
Old 5th November 2014
  #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
Sorry I wasn't clearer! It's (2): you get 24x24 channels in and out of the computer over USB but those can be whatever you would like. You can route those computer connections however you please, whether it be physical ins on the box itself or channels coming from the other box over AVB or channels from the mixer. Does that make sense?

I was confused because you mentioned 30 channels into the PC over USB. If you tried to plug two interfaces in over USB to get around the channel limitations in and out of the PC, then you would need some way to aggregate them.
Makes perfect sense and is exactly what we hoped for! Thanks
Old 5th November 2014
  #730
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dangerbeard's Avatar
 

Hey 1248 users, how are you liking the mic-pres and hi-z inputs??? Clean? Colored? Comparable to anything else in your racks?
Old 5th November 2014
  #731
Gear Nut
 

is the motu 1248 able to power 600ohm cans with its headphone amp?
Old 6th November 2014
  #732
Here for the gear
 

MOTU AVB swith

I've checked out the MOTU AVB switch. It works very well and is certainly rugged - good for those of us in location work. The case/housing is die-cast. Netgear has some switches in stamped sheet metal housings but the MOTU is far heavier. I especially like the huge rubber foot covering the entire bottom to keep it from slipping. Too often I get gear with press-on rubber feet that come off as soon as the case gets warm or the adhesive fails with a little age.
Old 7th November 2014
  #733
Couple of simple issues with the AVB mixer someone may be able to help me with - I can get the monitor path to "follow solo", but how do I get the main mix to do this?

Also, is there any way to chain the gain's when the channels are chained in stereo? It still makes me do each trim individually?

Thanks

PS - I have done a summing test using 8 outs from the 1248 into a passive summing mixer, into TC Rooster & Drawmer 1968 for makeup gain and tone/comp, and captured again as a stereo pair by the 1248 - I have tried this with the internal clock, a BLA Micro Clock MK2 and an Apogee Big Ben.

I can share some audio clips if anyone is interested - I ended up sticking with the clock of the Big Ben as it gives a more solid and defined middle IMO, which is what I was used to with my 2007 Apogee Ensemble - loving the tighter depth and fine detail of my 1248 with this upgrade in place.
Old 7th November 2014
  #734
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe View Post
Couple of simple issues with the AVB mixer someone may be able to help me with - I can get the monitor path to "follow solo", but how do I get the main mix to do this?

Also, is there any way to chain the gain's when the channels are chained in stereo? It still makes me do each trim individually?

Thanks

PS - I have done a summing test using 8 outs from the 1248 into a passive summing mixer, into TC Rooster & Drawmer 1968 for makeup gain and tone/comp, and captured again as a stereo pair by the 1248 - I have tried this with the internal clock, a BLA Micro Clock MK2 and an Apogee Big Ben.

I can share some audio clips if anyone is interested - I ended up sticking with the clock of the Big Ben as it gives a more solid and defined middle IMO, which is what I was used to with my 2007 Apogee Ensemble - loving the tighter depth and fine detail of my 1248 with this upgrade in place.
That's awesome that you found your combo! Happy Mixing. What kind of roundtrip latencies are you getting? Can you run a large session stable out low buffers?
Old 7th November 2014
  #735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe View Post
Couple of simple issues with the AVB mixer someone may be able to help me with - I can get the monitor path to "follow solo", but how do I get the main mix to do this?
See page 24 of the manual. In short, change the source at the bottom of the Monitor strip from "Solo Bus" to "Main Mix".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe View Post
Also, is there any way to chain the gain's when the channels are chained in stereo? It still makes me do each trim individually?
Are you referring to the trim knobs in the Device tab? If so, those are always treated as individual, mono inputs. You can make stereo strips in the mixer, though that's separate from the physical inputs in the Device tab.
Old 8th November 2014
  #736
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
See page 24 of the manual. In short, change the source at the bottom of the Monitor strip from "Solo Bus" to "Main Mix".
Hmmmm - not sure here - I still can only hear what I have solo'd on the monitor path, not the main mix?
Attached Thumbnails
MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface-screen-shot-2014-11-08-2.26.39-pm.png  
Old 8th November 2014
  #737
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
bs in the Device tab? If so, those are always treated as individual, mono inputs. You can make stereo strips in the mixer, though that's separate from the physical inputs in the Device tab.
Hi - I am talking about these trims at the top of the image

Thanks for your help!
Attached Thumbnails
MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface-screen-shot-2014-11-08-2.31.34-pm.png  
Old 8th November 2014
  #738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
That's awesome that you found your combo! Happy Mixing. What kind of roundtrip latencies are you getting? Can you run a large session stable out low buffers?
Running pretty comfortably at 64 samples here - 7.21 ms total latency reported in Ableton Live - I dont do heavy mixing at low latency's really though, as I use the software mixer when I need to monitor for tracking and then just go up in buffer as need by the cpu when mixing

I am a big fan of committing to sounds and printing, so I keep my CPU down where possible - I'm on an Mac Pro 2008, 8 core 2.8 Ghz Xeon, osX 10.6.8 (which still works for AVB mixer, which I really appreciate)

Love the flexiblity of the 1248 large array of in/outs and the great AVB mixer app.

Just did an old time country swing session (mixing) yesterday, and was getting very inspired mixes - doing some electronic production today that is equally satisfying
Old 9th November 2014
  #739
Gear Addict
 

Interested in this ! to upgrade my Motu PCI system.
But assuming AVB product claimed to be "pro" converter I don't understand why there are not able to provide "pro" output level...
That's the main problem of my actual motu AD-DA, I'm forced to re-align/calibrate my console to fit the 18dBu<=>0dBfs, i lost 4dB according to "standard" Vu, and lost a little the sweet spot at line in/out to keep the internal analog level nominal.
Regarding your DA max output I imagine you run +/-15v rail?
Is that so difficult to design a decent +/-18 supply rail?

Best

Zam
Old 9th November 2014
  #740
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe View Post
Running pretty comfortably at 64 samples here - 7.21 ms total latency reported in Ableton Live - I dont do heavy mixing at low latency's really though, as I use the software mixer when I need to monitor for tracking and then just go up in buffer as need by the cpu when mixing

I am a big fan of committing to sounds and printing, so I keep my CPU down where possible - I'm on an Mac Pro 2008, 8 core 2.8 Ghz Xeon, osX 10.6.8 (which still works for AVB mixer, which I really appreciate)

Love the flexiblity of the 1248 large array of in/outs and the great AVB mixer app.

Just did an old time country swing session (mixing) yesterday, and was getting very inspired mixes - doing some electronic production today that is equally satisfying
I'd love to hear something IN a Modern production vein from your new set up!
Old 9th November 2014
  #741
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emrr's Avatar
+24 in, +20 out according to specs, adjustable. I actually have my outputs turned down -4 on the interface to match my old MOTU PCI converters, and can still easily run multitrack mix levels too hot for my analog console. I'm not swings problem. I suspect a typo in those online output specs, I'm seeing more like +22 based on my -4 setting. The sound is a significant upgrade over the PCI interfaces in my experience.
Old 9th November 2014
  #742
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
+24 in, +20 out according to specs, adjustable. I actually have my outputs turned down -4 on the interface to match my old MOTU PCI converters, and can still easily run multitrack mix levels too hot for my analog console. I'm not swings problem. I suspect a typo in those online output specs, I'm seeing more like +22 based on my -4 setting. The sound is a significant upgrade over the PCI interfaces in my experience.
Hello Doug
Tks for info! are you sure your previous Motu PCI is not +16dBu<=>0dBfs?
If motu tech can confirm this +22
Or anybody who can hook some RMS multimeter at the DA output with 1k sin wave at 0dBfs
Best
Zam
Old 9th November 2014
  #743
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emrr's Avatar
Quoting myself earlier in this thread:

600 ohm output signal generator sending +24dBu reads 23.7dBm at output of signal generator with multimeter, -0.25 dBFS incoming to 16A with input trim set to 0.
16A output set 0 (max), output reads +21.7dBm with multimeter.
Old 10th November 2014
  #744
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
Quoting myself earlier in this thread:

600 ohm output signal generator sending +24dBu reads 23.7dBm at output of signal generator with multimeter, -0.25 dBFS incoming to 16A with input trim set to 0.
16A output set 0 (max), output reads +21.7dBm with multimeter.
that's fine !
tks
Zam
Old 10th November 2014
  #745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe View Post
Hi - I am talking about these trims at the top of the image

Thanks for your help!
Ah, good to know! I agree those should be stereo trim knobs since you've made a stereo channel strip. I've filed a feature request on your behalf. Thanks for the suggestion!
Old 10th November 2014
  #746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
I'd love to hear something IN a Modern production vein from your new set up!
Ok, but I will have to get there first ;-)

The electronic stuff I am working on is to fire up my old creative flame from before I worked primarily with bands, so it is still in the more initial stages - I may have some more modern indie stuff I could post an example of though in the nearer future.

EDIT - REBORN - I decided to throw up some test loops

PS - Thanks mrmiller !
Old 11th November 2014
  #747
Here for the gear
 

This thread eventually made me sign up to GS. Thanks so far and hello everybody.
I currently do most recordings in a friends studio equipped with MOTU PCIe Interfaces (2x24io, 1x2408) and used to have a 828mk2 (which now also belongs to aforementioned friend). I finally want to do some songwriting stuff at home again and therefore need an interface.
I guess something like a Ultralite would do, but I have the chance to get an interface at a 30% discount (don't ask me how) so I thought about the 1248. I know it's overkill but this would give me maximum flexibility and I could reuse it in the big studio later (guess we will upgrade to 16A or the new 24 units anyway someday). To use the discount I have to decide until friday and two things worry me: I'm on Windows, when can I expect Windows drivers? Isn't there any rough estimate? Like "we want them out till Christmas but might take until January"? And when can we expect smaller AVB interfaces like the Ultralite? Don't wanna buy the big thing (even with discount) and MOTU releases the AVB Ultralite shortly afterwards. I could also use the discount on a MacBook and would then rather buy a smaller interface to stay in budget (UAD Apollo Twin would be an option then).
Any ideas? Maybe mrmiller can give a hint? Great to have someone from MOTU here.

Thank you.
Old 11th November 2014
  #748
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarF666 View Post
I'm on Windows, when can I expect Windows drivers? Isn't there any rough estimate? Like "we want them out till Christmas but might take until January"? And when can we expect smaller AVB interfaces like the Ultralite? Don't wanna buy the big thing (even with discount) and MOTU releases the AVB Ultralite shortly afterwards. I could also use the discount on a MacBook and would then rather buy a smaller interface to stay in budget (UAD Apollo Twin would be an option then).
Any ideas? Maybe mrmiller can give a hint? Great to have someone from MOTU here.
I can't give even a rough estimate on the Windows driver, unfortunately. Engineering's fickle and that last 10% can end up taking 90% of the time. The most I can say is that it's coming along and only USB will be available at first. We want them out as soon as possible but we want to make sure they're great first!

I also can't say if or when there will be a small form factor AVB unit.

Sorry for the non-answers. I can't really talk too much about the mid-term future, whether it's potential products or timelines. Happy to dish about anything else though, as always!
Old 11th November 2014
  #749
So I decided to go ahead and post just a little loop of groove I have been jamming out for fun, to see how the 1248 reacts on my summing test with electronic, programmed kind of material, using its own internal clock VS the Big Ben Clock (via WC).

I did the test a few ways.

The "ITB Bounce" is the (somewhat loose I admit) control here, and features U-he's Presswerx comp doing subtle 2buss compression.

The "2 Buss Summed 1248" loops are summed out via 2 of the 1248's analog outputs into a passive Unit Audio summing mixer, with makeup gain and subtle eq and light compression coming from a Thermionic Culture Rooster and a Drawmer 1968 at the end of the chain - the stereo mix is then captured back into the 1248, clocked both internally and off an Apogee Big Ben. These versions also include U-he's Presswerx comp doing subtle 2buss compression ITB, pre summing.

The "8 Channel Summed 1248" loops are summed out via 8 of the 1248's analog outputs into a passive Unit Audio summing mixer, with makeup gain and subtle eq and light compression coming from a Thermionic Culture Rooster and a Drawmer 1968 at the end of the chain - the stereo mix is then captured back into the 1248, clocked both internally and off an Apogee Big Ben.

Obviously, this is not particularly scientific, or controlled as a test, except in that it does show you how only changing the clock source changes the sound of the summed bounces, and will give you a feel for what clocking off a Big Ben might bring to the table if you are considering such a thing. At the very least the loops are different sounding with each clock and can provide an example of that difference, weather you prefer it or not in the end.

To my ear/brain perception, the Big Ben tightens up the stereo image and conveys transients with more natural sounding definition/punchiness, which is important enough to me that I spent the extra on a (used) Big Ben - my 2007 Ensemble also sounds better to me clocked off the Big Ben for what it's worth.

At any rate, not interested in arguing over it, which is why I am posting examples for you to judge in your own comfort zone - perhaps like me, the 1248 will be a good match for your setup with an external clock in the mix. Or maybe you'll hear that it is better with the internal clock to your ear - that's cool too.

EDIT - I added in two new versions of the 8 Channel summing loop that I had captured using "Triode" mode on the TC Rooster (the original loops use "Pentode" mode) I like the punchiness of Pentode mode as a production choice, but I think that the overtones in the Triode version show off the differences I am hearing more clearly for the purpose of this comparison. Also, I auditioned clocking off a BLA MicroClock MK2, but this clock kind of feathered the sound out in a pleasant way, but it was too smeared for my taste - it did not do what the Big Ben does for clarity of transients IMO at any rate in case anyone is considering it as a clock source for the 1248

Attached Files

ITB BOUNCE 1248.wav (5.04 MB, 1954 views)

2Buss SUMMED 1248 INTERNAL CLOCK.wav (5.04 MB, 1804 views)

2Buss SUMMED 1248 BIG BEN CLOCK.wav (5.04 MB, 1917 views)

8 Channel Summed 1248 INTERNAL CLOCK.wav (5.05 MB, 1932 views)

8 Channel Summed 1248 BIG BEN CLOCK.wav (5.04 MB, 1839 views)

8 Channel Summed 1248 INTERNAL CLOCK TRIODE.wav (5.05 MB, 1839 views)

8 Channel Summed 1248 BIG BEN CLOCK TRIODE.wav (5.05 MB, 1915 views)

Old 12th November 2014
  #750
Here for the gear
 
icephra's Avatar
 

To those that may have a better grasp on the Thunderbolt protocol, is it possible to connect the 1248 to the computer and connect a hard drive to the USB port on the 1248?
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