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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 8th October 2014
  #571
nms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyjneilson View Post
Well that is good news then because the was the worst conversion I had ever heard the lack of clarity was unbelievable. I went to an Echo after that and was very please with what my money got me. Better imaging, better quality conversion. If this can offer me the same quality or better conversion that my Audiofire12 gave me then I just may give MOTU another chance.
It sounds like something was broken with your 828mk3. There are a lot of worse converters out there.

The Audiofire12 isn't a high bar to reach though. This new AVB series is a well above the Audiofire.
Old 8th October 2014
  #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyjneilson View Post
Well that is good news then because the 828mk3 was the worst conversion I had ever heard the lack of clarity was unbelievable.
I'd also guess you've never heard a DAT machine, or anything much older than the last 5 years. Every 5 years or so for the last 30ish years has shown continuous improvement at all levels. There are older nice sounding converters, but not many that truly compete.

Bad clock sync between devices can degrade audio. It used to be obvious, I'm findings now if sync between my 16A and 2408 is off, it's not an obvious fail. I check it now every day, and after any system sleep. I'm sure an almost failed usb/fw/whatever can do it too.


I just did a live show recording as a follow-up to a previous; same place, mics, setup. The previous recording was done with the built-in Midas F32 converters, latest with a 16A from the Midas direct outs, both done 44.1/24. The producers immediately declared the 16A the better converter, with a much easier initial rough mix build. FWIW.
Old 9th October 2014
  #573
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
I'd also guess you've never heard a DAT machine, or anything much older than the last 5 years. .

Unfortunately I have heard a DAT machine. Been in the game just about 14 years now but I have not heard worse conversion at the time then my 828. I had several other usb interfaced prior to my 828 that seemed to sound better than the 828. It seemed muffled, 2d and very colored in a bad way. Since then I have worked on various converters, Id put the AF within 10% of the RME and Apogee gear of the time (5 years ago) so if AF12 is not a hard bar to reach then its time for me to upgrade and maybe this MOTU 16a will do the trick for my 500 series addiction.
Old 9th October 2014
  #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
I will say that we completely redesigned these interfaces from the ground up, with new converters (Sabre32 Ultras), drivers, etc.
My only complaint with my 828mkII is the preamps. The 828mk series preamps have had a reputation as being very low gain and a propensity to literally fall apart on the job. See link here:

MOTU 828 mkII USB crackle


Can you offer any insight or assurance as to to the quality and reliability of the preamps included in the new models? Specific improvements?

Thanks
Old 9th October 2014
  #575
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Just got a 16A in for testing and quite like the sound of it. Nice and relaxed, if somewhat bland in the mids. Will have to sniff the flavour for a few days before reality conclusions, but promising is a fair word. Reminds indeed of my friend's Symphony, which I also always feel like that about. A bit 'bland' in tone, as in doesn't help your music, so you have to, but will go where you bend it without pain.

I have a problem though:

I am running it over usb (no TB in my computer as yet) and every few minutes he is getting into a flurry of clicks and pops. Running at 48kHz. So I switch to 44.1 and back and he's good to go again. Little while later the same thing.....can't be having that sort of nonsense. And if I don't switch over and back he goes all the way into all out screeching ....he's set on internal clock of course.

Mr Miller, any ideas pretty please?
Old 9th October 2014
  #576
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
I am running it over usb (no TB in my computer as yet) and every few minutes he is getting into a flurry of clicks and pops. Running at 48kHz. So I switch to 44.1 and back and he's good to go again. Little while later the same thing.....can't be having that sort of nonsense. And if I don't switch over and back he goes all the way into all out screeching ....he's set on internal clock of course.
I had that same issue with my old MOTU Traveler. It was SUCH a pain. It was driver related as eventually a newer driver fixed the issue, but it messed up some live recordings for me. That needs to be fixed ASAP!
Old 9th October 2014
  #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexxe View Post
I had that same issue with my old MOTU Traveler. It was SUCH a pain. It was driver related as eventually a newer driver fixed the issue, but it messed up some live recordings for me. That needs to be fixed ASAP!
Sort of making it impossible to even evaluate it properly atm.....
Old 9th October 2014
  #578
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If you have Ethernet and usb both connected, it will freak out. Otherwise, what system, etc?
Old 9th October 2014
  #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
If you have Ethernet and usb both connected, it will freak out. Otherwise, what system, etc?
Only usb. Hackintosh running 10.9.5.
Old 9th October 2014
  #580
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And latest AVB control app? Do the firmware update to the hardware? That requires Ethernet. Try the reboot button on the bottom of the first page too, see if it does the same thing after that.
Old 9th October 2014
  #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
And latest AVB control app? Do the firmware update to the hardware? That requires Ethernet. Try the reboot button on the bottom of the first page too, see if it does the same thing after that.
I'll try all that next, thanks. Next is Saturday.
Old 10th October 2014
  #582
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6strings View Post
Can you offer any insight or assurance as to to the quality and reliability of the preamps included in the new models? Specific improvements?
The preamps are much improved. They're redesigned with newer, better components. Let me know if you get a chance to play with the 1248 and its preamps—I'd love to hear what you think!
Old 10th October 2014
  #583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
I am running it over usb (no TB in my computer as yet) and every few minutes he is getting into a flurry of clicks and pops. Running at 48kHz. So I switch to 44.1 and back and he's good to go again. Little while later the same thing.....can't be having that sort of nonsense. And if I don't switch over and back he goes all the way into all out screeching ....he's set on internal clock of course.

Mr Miller, any ideas pretty please?
Hmm... we haven't encountered this issue before. As emrr said, make sure you've got the latest firmware on the device. I'm going to send you a PM so we don't have to spam everyone as we debug the issue.
Old 10th October 2014
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
Hmm... we haven't encountered this issue before. As emrr said, make sure you've got the latest firmware on the device. I'm going to send you a PM so we don't have to spam everyone as we debug the issue.
Emailed you back, thank you very much indeed for the super direct customer service!!
Old 10th October 2014
  #585
Gear Head
hi mrmiller.

i was wondering what happened to the analysis tools that are available for the 828mk3, for example the phase analysis, FFT, tuner etc.

Are these also available on these new interfaces? I've always really loved these tools...
Old 10th October 2014
  #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
The preamps are much improved. They're redesigned with newer, better components.
Good to hear. Thanks!

Old 10th October 2014
  #587
Quote:
Originally Posted by synnys View Post
i was wondering what happened to the analysis tools that are available for the 828mk3, for example the phase analysis, FFT, tuner etc.

Are these also available on these new interfaces? I've always really loved these tools...
Unfortunately, the analysis tools aren't available for the new AVB interfaces. It's a feature we've discussed, however.
Old 12th October 2014
  #588
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I have not been able to use my 8M on a real gig yet, unfortunately, as I have a lot of different functions in my audio career. I did take it out for a remote recording the other night, and realized I had apparently not set it up for simple interface use, so had to abandon it and use my 2626 and Digimax on Firewire. So I am re-reading the man ual and will be checking it out before a next gig.

Here's my question: Is it possibly to use it as an interface (or as mixer + interface) with USB audio, and ethernet to the same MBP for setup? I SAW THE COMMENT ABOVE "If you have Ethernet and usb both connected, it will freak out." and hope it is possible to use them both on one MBP, as I'll have to buy another router if it needs to be wireless...

Thanks!

L
Old 12th October 2014
  #589
Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
I have not been able to use my 8M on a real gig yet, unfortunately, as I have a lot of different functions in my audio career. I did take it out for a remote recording the other night, and realized I had apparently not set it up for simple interface use, so had to abandon it and use my 2626 and Digimax on Firewire. So I am re-reading the man ual and will be checking it out before a next gig.

Here's my question: Is it possibly to use it as an interface (or as mixer + interface) with USB audio, and ethernet to the same MBP for setup? I SAW THE COMMENT ABOVE "If you have Ethernet and usb both connected, it will freak out." and hope it is possible to use them both on one MBP, as I'll have to buy another router if it needs to be wireless...

Thanks!

L
No need for an ethernet connection when used from the CPU with the USB connection. The AVB series delivers the web interface through both USB, Thunderbolt and ethernet.

I run mine as a FOH and IEM mixer and as a recording interface on a MacBook Pro '07 all at the same time. The MacBook controls and records the 8m while my bandmates control their mix through a mixture of OSC and web-app setups on iPad, iPhone or Android device connected using an Airport Express connected to the ethernet port.
Old 12th October 2014
  #590
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Thanks Roland! Sounds easy. So do you use the MBP's airport to connect wireleesly, no need for external WiFi router? If so, that is sweet!

Or do you use a router also?
Old 12th October 2014
  #591
Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Thanks Roland! Sounds easy. So do you use the MBP's airport to connect wireleesly, no need for external WiFi router? If so, that is sweet!

Or do you use a router also?
No need for a router if the CPU has enough power. All devices can connect to a MacBook/MacMini through shared wifi, but I prefer using my Airport Express for the 8M connection serving external units as it preserves CPU resources on my aging MacBook.
Old 12th October 2014
  #592
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Thanks! Today I have a sort-of day off so I'll hook it up and try it out... My MBP is 2008 5,1 so we shall see!
Old 13th October 2014
  #593
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native DSD support

We are looking into options to replace our daisy chained Prism Orpheus units with something a bit more future proof regarding interfaces. AVB seems like our ticket.

The 16A looks like a good option for our main monitoring needs (active Genelec's and Quested). Does anybody have experience in using it in such an application (directly into main monitors/amps) and how would you rate it?

We are doing alot of DSD work lately. With the Motu's using the Sabre32 DAC we are wondering if there are plans to support native DSD output via ASIO? We would like an option to monitor our DSD work natively without PCM conversion.

Another question would be if the Motu allows access to Sabre's DAC internal digital volume control for monitoring?

Thank you!
Old 13th October 2014
  #594
nms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionsclaw View Post
The 16A looks like a good option for our main monitoring needs (active Genelec's and Quested).

We are doing alot of DSD work lately.
Which Genelec & Quested monitors are you using? If you're talking V3110's you should aim higher and go for a Hilo which also supports DSD. If you have TB then a Hilo TB would be a killer solution for you and allow you to chain your Orpheus over ADAT.

Quote:
Another question would be if the Motu allows access to Sabre's DAC internal digital volume control for monitoring?
Like Apogee, it uses digital attenuation of the 32bit DACs.
Old 13th October 2014
  #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Thanks! Today I have a sort-of day off so I'll hook it up and try it out... My MBP is 2008 5,1 so we shall see!
Okay, I have it up and running to test. It works fine for line in, running a session into it from my HD24. BUT!

When it first fired it up, my MBP showed a little text box saying updates available for the 8M, but it disappeared after a couple of minutes.

I checked the ID button on the 8M, and there is a serial number but no IP address! What can I do to access it?
Can't do updates when it can't be seen, can it?

Pro Tool can see it and get signal, but that is as far as I got...
<L>
Old 13th October 2014
  #596
Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Okay, I have it up and running to test. It works fine for line in, running a session into it from my HD24. BUT!

When it first fired it up, my MBP showed a little text box saying updates available for the 8M, but it disappeared after a couple of minutes.

I checked the ID button on the 8M, and there is a serial number but no IP address! What can I do to access it?
Can't do updates when it can't be seen, can it?

Pro Tool can see it and get signal, but that is as far as I got...
<L>
The device won't have an IP address if you're not using ethernet. Since you've got our driver installed, the MOTU AVB Discovery app in the menu bar should list the device. Click on it from that list and it'll open in a new browser window for you.

To install firmware updates, you will need to connect via ethernet to your computer or router temporarily. If you want to run the update after the notification has disappeared, go to the Device tab and there should be a banner at the top saying an update is available.
Old 13th October 2014
  #597
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So here's a question for you. I just ordered my primarily for use in logic.

I also have a windows XP bootcamp partition for some very old cubase projects that I may finish one day.

Understandably there is no XP support for this new device, however will it work with something like ASIO4ALL? From what I gather that will allow class compliant devices to function in old windows.

Maybe this is also a way to make it work in windows 7/8 as an interim without a real motu driver?
Old 14th October 2014
  #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
To install firmware updates, you will need to connect via ethernet to your computer or router temporarily.
So if you have a current Mac with no ethernet port, you have to use a TB to ethernet adapter? This seems a strange design, especially since MOTU has always been Mac-friendly. It's a TB interface, but requires an ethernet connection, not TB, to connect to the computer for updates?

Why can't it send that info. over the TB connection, like it does audio?

FWIW, I'm probably going to upgrade my FW interface to a 1248 or 16A in the near future, so I'm liking what I'm reading about these new interfaces. Most of it is really good for my purposes - just this one strange design feature that puzzles me. PITA and need to buy a $30 adapter - not the end of the world.

ld
Old 14th October 2014
  #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacklegger View Post
So if you have a current Mac with no ethernet port, you have to use a TB to ethernet adapter? This seems a strange design, especially since MOTU has always been Mac-friendly. It's a TB interface, but requires an ethernet connection, not TB, to connect to the computer for updates?

Why can't it send that info. over the TB connection, like it does audio?

FWIW, I'm probably going to upgrade my FW interface to a 1248 or 16A in the near future, so I'm liking what I'm reading about these new interfaces. Most of it is really good for my purposes - just this one strange design feature that puzzles me. PITA and need to buy a $30 adapter - not the end of the world.

ld
You don't have to connect it directly to your computer, so if you have no ethernet port, it's not a problem. Just connect the AVB interface to the router your computer is connected to through wifi and your computer will find it.
Old 14th October 2014
  #600
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacklegger View Post
It's a TB interface, but requires an ethernet connection, not TB, to connect to the computer for updates?

Why can't it send that info. over the TB connection, like it does audio?
As jlaws said, it doesn't need to be connected to the computer directly. It simply needs to be accessible on the network, by connecting it to your wifi router, for example, or a network switch.

I explained the design decisions behind this a while ago, but reposting for convenience:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
We designed the firmware update to work over ethernet mostly for convenience. If you're a user with lots of networked boxes, you can upgrade them all from a distance (even over wifi!) without having to plug in directly and without having to download or run an updater application.

We also decided on this approach for engineering reasons. We put a heavy emphasis on reliability. When installing an update, the device reboots into a stripped-down recovery partition to guarantee that you can always finish updating, even if the power goes out mid-update. Since updates can also affect the Thunderbolt or USB chips, we can't use them from the update mode.
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