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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 23rd July 2014
  #31
I can see just one Thunderbolt connection in the photos
Old 23rd July 2014
  #32
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spambot_2's Avatar
^ yeah, digital audio i/o over one thunderbolt port.

In response to your previous post, to use more than one at a time you need a MOTU gigabit ethernet switch.
My guess is that they will work with whatever gigabit ethernet switch but who knows...
Old 23rd July 2014
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by spambot_2 View Post
^ yeah, digital audio i/o over one thunderbolt port.

In response to your previous post, to use more than one at a time you need a MOTU gigabit ethernet switch.
My guess is that they will work with whatever gigabit ethernet switch but who knows...
Yes, I see. Pretty clever indeed. The problem remains if you have a thunderbolt environment (ssd, monitor, extra interfaces etc) and a computer with just one thunderbolt connection (my case)
Old 23rd July 2014
  #34
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You can connect the interface to your computer via USB then.
Though if you cared about latency I'd get a thunderbolt switch, which is likely to introduce less latency than USB, and it's sure gonna give you more bandwidth.

Also, I was wrong, if you wanna use more than two you gotta get a switch.
If you wanna use two you can simply connect them with an adequately spec'd ethernet cable.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by spambot_2 View Post
You can connect the interface to your computer via USB then.
Reminds me of Apogee's Thunderbridge related controversy. Anyway, don't want to start a dispute: I just register the fact that it could be a much better workflow with 2 Thunderbolt connections, like everyone does. But it's just my personal opinion.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #36
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lowpassfilter's Avatar
These look great. Just started putting together a MOTU PCIe rig... Looks like they are discontinued. I'll either get one of these or hopefully they push the price of 2nd hand 2408s down.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #37
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lowpassfilter's Avatar
They look great indeed. I just started putting together a pci system based on your recommendation of reliability Charlie. I am tired of dropouts and stuff needing to be reset every week, sharing busses with hard drives, etc. so seemed like the affordable way to go. 2x 2408 mkIIIs and now looking for a 24 I/O.

I am hoping MOTU does some hardware exchange pricing like focusrite is doing with rednet right now or Avid does with HD interfaces.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #38
181483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASCMe View Post
They use the same convertors the other big boys use.
Same 'converter chips', which is one single component and perhaps 10% of the sound and performance of the 'conversion'. Superior quality clocks and top-end analog components and power supplies (and the whole design implementaion) are what set the big boys apart from the little boys.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #39
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^ no, wait.

First of all as I wrote in a post in the previous page, there's really no guarantee they use the same converter chips.

Though the converter IS the most important part of the conversion path.
What comes before is useful indeed and by any means matters, though if we're talking about the 16 line ins, if they use the same converters they ARE likely to sound close to the orion - but again, the guys at antelope don't go around telling what converters they use in their interfaces.

If you're talking about the other way conversions, the converters are less important 'cause you got yourself an amplifier after the converter chip to bring the signal up to line level, and you have the balancing circuit which also matters, but if we were to put it in numbers I'd say in an ADC such as in the 16A, the converter chip is 80% of the sound at least, while in a DAC from the same unit the converter chip is 40% or 50% of the sound.

As for the clocking part, that is very important indeed and because people put good converters in units with average clocking systems (this doesn't even seem the case to me, though let's go on for the sake of the argument), good quality converters feature jitter elimination techs.
The sabre32 ULTRA in particular, as every chip from the sabre32 family I think, features a "Patented Time Domain Jitter Elimination", which I reckon may not suck.

Again, I agree on the analog components thing, but how many analog components are there in the input path?
Old 24th July 2014
  #40
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papawise's Avatar
Thumbs up

This is exactly what I was looking for (!)

# Great connection velocity,
# Tons of analog inputs,
# Good conversion,
# New technology,
# Good prices,
# A popular brand with world wide support,
# Expandability

uffff I run out of air...

if the AD/DA conversion is very good as I expect, this is exactly what I was dreaming, 100%.
Old 24th July 2014
  #41
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papawise's Avatar
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
Also half the quality of the Orion...
This makes me a little nervouss(!)

Man, How could you know it? "bashing for the art of bashing only."
It's a new product with new converters with a new protocol with new technology and don't even touched the street, my goshhh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spambot_2 View Post
I checked the product specs out - they are employing the same converters technology as the recent high tire apogee stuff...
Of course there is involved the analog circuit too, but...
Let's see, how it sounds. It's very promising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Lastima View Post
...it addresses a certain need/desire regarding functionality, at a much more accessible price point...

...I'm sure if you were to sing the praises of the Orion, someone's gonna chime in to say that it's not as good as Metric Halo....and so on and so forth. We can all play that game, all day...
This (!)(!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmatibet View Post
Ethernet streams routing is awesome
Agree 100% (like the Rednet but I think better adressed if works like it looks)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASCMe View Post
They use the same convertors the other big boys use.
Seems to be an improvement in the AD/DA conversion, and that's pretty seductive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
If the 16A sounds at least as good as an Aurora, it will definitely meet the demands of many people at that price point...
You are making me pee my pants...
I REALLY HOPE IT.
Even at a higher price point, it would meet the demands of many many people.
Old 24th July 2014
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by spambot_2 View Post
Though the converter IS the most important part of the conversion path.
...I'd say in an ADC such as in the 16A, the converter chip is 80% of the sound at least, while in a DAC from the same unit the converter chip is 40% or 50% of the sound.
Ludicrous. The converter chip only dictates the MAXIMUM CAPABILITY of the rest of the circuit/signal path. That little chip, while not unimportant, has little to do with the actual quality of sound. Unbelievable rubbish you just posted, along with completely random made-up percentages.

Is this GS, or BS forum?
Old 24th July 2014
  #43
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aaeronn's Avatar
 

Perhaps we could wait until these new interfaces are in the hands of the people and reviewers ... and we have some real world comparisons before we go off the deep end into the intricacies of AD/DA design ?
Old 24th July 2014
  #44
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charlieclouser's Avatar
 

I would have liked to see a MADI box in this series, but that's about all I can think of that these don't cover. All in all, I'm very impressed.
Old 24th July 2014
  #45
Gear Maniac
 

Good to see that MOTU are embracing Thunderbolt, in my experience audio on the PCI buss has been a lot smother than audio on USB of Firewire. Now if only Microsoft would release Thunderbolt drivers.....
Old 24th July 2014
  #46
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaeronn View Post
Perhaps we could wait until these new interfaces are in the hands of the people and reviewers ... and we have some real world comparisons before we go off the deep end into the intricacies of AD/DA design ?
IMO AD/DA intricacies are totally on point. The Analog circuit before the conversion chip, the clock, and the power supply are all critical components in the making of a superb converter. An average one? Not so much. That's why companies like Black Lion are in biz. And traditionally, they have done a LOT of motu interfaces. Hopefully MOTU went the extra mile this time instead of just dropping in the latest AD/DA chips. The overall architecture looks fantastic. Hopefully the sound will follow. Like you say, time will tell.
Old 24th July 2014
  #47
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BradM's Avatar
MOTU always delivers on features and price and for that I will always be a fan. The clocking has traditionally been a weak point. And the sound has been what I'll call average, but you surely can make a record with their legacy interfaces no problem. Black Lion has done a tremendous job pulling the full potential out of these boxes as Bill mentioned. If I were the suits at MOTU I'd be studying the good work that the boys at BLA have been doing the last few years....maybe they have.

Looking forward to hearing more about these. I just checked out the website and am very impressed. Go MOTU go!

Brad
Old 24th July 2014
  #48
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papawise's Avatar
Lightbulb

MADI for what?

the only reason that comes up to my mind is to use it with other MADI equipped units or with the great RME MADI FX, but these units with Thunderbolt are able to handle the double of channels (128).
Old 24th July 2014
  #49
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papawise's Avatar
Regarding the price,
I would dare to say that there is an improvement in the internal construction,
since it's the same price than previous models but with less analog inputs and without the included PCI-Express card, even a bit more expensive this time and also with the AVB switch that is bought separately.

Of course these are all speculations.
Old 24th July 2014
  #50
Gear Addict
 

These new interfaces look great.
I am a long time RME user and not familiar with how Motu handles their main monitor outputs. Is the digital encoder on the front of the 1248 purely to control the monitor level within the cuemix software? or is it digitally controlled analog attenuation within the 1248 itself?
cheers
Old 24th July 2014
  #51
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charlieclouser's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by papawise View Post
MADI for what?

the only reason that comes up to my mind is to use it with other MADI equipped units or with the great RME MADI FX, but these units with Thunderbolt are able to handle the double of channels (128).
I use two rigs - a Logic DAW which is where I'd put the MOTU stuff, and a separate computer running ProTools which I use as a layback recorder (aka mix down deck) to record stems to. I typically print at least four 5.1 stems in one pass, and I'd like to raise that number.

If I had a MADI interface on the Logic machine I could equip the PT machine with the Avid MADI interface and print 64 channels in one pass. This is why I'm still debating between the new MOTU AVB stuff and the existing RME MADIface XT.

With the MOTU AVB setup I'd need four interfaces to spit 64 channels of ADAT over to PT, and on the PT machine I'd need four HD I/O interfaces in the all-digital configuration - so a lot of rack spaces and a lot of ADAT cables, and I'd wind up with more analog i-o on the MOTU side than I really need. I'd have 64 ADAT i-o and 64 analog i-o when I only really need 24 or 32 analog.

With the RME and Avid MADI setup, it's a lot smaller in the racks, but adding a bunch of analog i-o to the RME setup gets pricey as well - $5k per 32 inputs and another $5k per 32 outputs, plus another few grand for various stuff like the MADI router and MADI>AES converter (needed for my monitoring system). So the MADI setup gives me the channel count I need for printing stems at the expense of having limited analog i-o on the Logic side, unless I get really spendy. Not a big deal as I'm mostly in the box anyway.

In the end, if I spec out all the way to 64 channels of stems between Logic and PT it winds up pricing out about the same whether I go RME or MOTU AVB, at that point it's just a question of how big of a rack do I want to fill. Plus there's something elegant about a MADI setup with 64 channels on one little cable - I sort of like that idea. If there was a MOTU AVB box with MADI then I could get the analog i-o of the AVB on the Logic side and the cheaper, smaller MADI rig on the PT side - this would be ideal.

But ya can't always get what you want.

heh
Old 24th July 2014
  #52
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papawise's Avatar
Alright,
a complex setup with different variations,

but in your case with your channel count, didn't you think about the
Orion 32 + RME MADI FX ? 32 channels of good conversion with the stability of RME PCIe
Old 24th July 2014
  #53
Gear Addict
 

I don't get it: is Ethernet do the same as Thunderbolt but cheaper ? Why Apple decided to switch to thunderbolt then ?
Old 24th July 2014
  #54
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papawise's Avatar
No, the RJ45 connection is to daisy chain other units for more inputs/outputs, the protocol used to connect the interface to the computer is Thunderbolt or USB.
Old 24th July 2014
  #55
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ESS Sabre - Apogee Electronics

Looks like MOTU indeed uses Symphony´s converters.
Old 24th July 2014
  #56
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papawise's Avatar
Yes,
but there not only matter the converters chips, the quality of the components of the analog circuit, clock and power supply are equally important or even more than the chips.

We hope this time MOTU take an step further on this because this solution could become in something great and convenient with the last of the last in audio technology.
Old 24th July 2014
  #57
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charlieclouser's Avatar
 

I guess Orion would be a decent replacement for the RME MADI>AD+DA racks, which are quite pricey, huge, and have fans on the 32-channel units. So that's definitely an option if I go RME MADI, whether PCIe or MADIface XT. Good call, I hadn't even considered Orion.
Old 24th July 2014
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papawise View Post
Yes,
but there not only matter the converters chips, the quality of the component of the analog circuit, clock and power supply are equally important or even more than the chips.

We hope this time MOTU take an step further on this because this solution could become in something great and convenient with the last of the last in audio technology.
+1
Old 24th July 2014
  #59
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spambot_2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth View Post
Ludicrous. The converter chip only dictates the MAXIMUM CAPABILITY of the rest of the circuit/signal path. That little chip, while not unimportant, has little to do with the actual quality of sound. Unbelievable rubbish you just posted, along with completely random made-up percentages.
How much analog circuitry is there between a line input and an ADC?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
ESS Sabre - Apogee Electronics

Looks like MOTU indeed uses Symphony´s converters.
Again, sabre32 is a family of converters.
They might as well be using the lowest tire ones while apogee may be using the highest tire ones.
Old 24th July 2014
  #60
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papawise's Avatar
I would not even compare the XT with the FX PCIe card, the HDSPe cards from RME achieve the best latencies in the sound industry world wide

I'm really critical with the Orion32 thru USB but with MADI seems to be a very sweet solution in 1 rack space.

Anyways, I'm very interested in the MOTU solution for the expandability and new technologies.

regards.
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