The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 30th September 2014
  #541
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
Glad to hear the OSC's working well! Let me know if you run into anything with it.

Unfortunately, we're pushing the DSP chip to the limit as is and don't really have any capacity to add limiters/compressors to the auxes. I assume you've already used up the groups and their levelers?
I'm using the groups for external FX through Ableton Live. Mostly using Valhalla Room and Multitap Delays. Not using the Levelers or the Reverb. Would have liked to have the possibility to re-assign DSP resources. I'm feeding 6 stereo IEM auxes and two mono wedge auxes, hence the need for Limiting on at least 6 auxes. A simple brickwall limiter would have done the job nicely.

One thing about OSC: The bottom 1/3 of TouchOSCs fader movement leads to massive changes in volume from zero to -12 db while the upper 2/3 regulate from -12 to +12 db. Any chance of a more linear approach?
Old 1st October 2014
  #542
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
This is a completely new product and we needed to write new drivers from scratch (albeit with all the experience we already have). Our previous interfaces all were built on the same platform and so updating the driver to support a new interface only meant incremental changes. Since this is a from-the-ground-up new driver, it's a huge amount of initial work. Maintaining and improving it to support new interfaces, however, will be much more straightforward.

We're really excited about these interfaces and wanted to share them with you all as soon as possible. Rather than delay the device until Windows was ready, we decided to release it with only Mac support initially. That way, at least some of you can use it and give us feedback while we toil away on the Windows side!
I just had a 1248 roll into the studio this week, but since I run a PC Win7 studio, I'm trying to figure out what I can do with it. Should I just hold onto it until the windows drivers are out, or send it back?

I hate sending new toys back...
Old 1st October 2014
  #543
Gear Head
 

Send it to me

Thanks
Old 1st October 2014
  #544
Gear Head
 

Send it to me

Thanks
Old 1st October 2014
  #545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Identity 4 View Post
I just had a 1248 roll into the studio this week, but since I run a PC Win7 studio, I'm trying to figure out what I can do with it. Should I just hold onto it until the windows drivers are out, or send it back?

I hate sending new toys back...
Well, for now, you can extend an existing interface via ADAT with the 1248 and use it that way. The control app is entirely web-based and the server runs on the interface. That means you can control everything about the box from your browser, regardless of your OS or device. The PC drivers are still in progress, unfortunately, but they are coming. I know it's not ideal but it could tide you over until the drivers are ready (depending on your situation, of course).
Old 2nd October 2014
  #546
Gear Maniac
 

When the AVB series is connected to an Ipad how many channels can be recorded and played back simultaneously ?
And when connected it won´t charge the ipad, is that right?

Can every Computer in a LAN (I know Windowsdriver are coming soon) access the inputs and outputs of the AVB´s simultaneously ?
If so, is one of these AVB boxes required for this even if solely one interface is used?

Thank you for answering these questions.
Old 2nd October 2014
  #547
Gear Maniac
 


Last edited by Pag the LIVR; 2nd October 2014 at 06:43 PM.. Reason: double
Old 2nd October 2014
  #548
Just wanted to let you know that we released an updated driver today, 1.0.3, which addresses some compatibility issues with Logic and Max/MSP. We also updated the manual—version 1.1, if you will—thanks to feedback from many of you!
Old 2nd October 2014
  #549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pag the LIVR View Post
When the AVB series is connected to an Ipad how many channels can be recorded and played back simultaneously ?
And when connected it won´t charge the ipad, is that right?
We support 24 in, 24 out simultaneously over USB, iPad included. It will not charge the iPad, unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pag the LIVR View Post
Can every Computer in a LAN (I know Windowsdriver are coming soon) access the inputs and outputs of the AVB´s simultaneously ?
If so, is one of these AVB boxes required for this even if solely one interface is used?
Yes, AVB uses multicast and AVB-capable switches support intelligent multicast packet routing. You would need one interface for each computer on the network if you wanted to access it from multiple computers. If each computer had, say, a MOTU AVB interface connected, you'd be able to send streams from any interface onto the network and access them from any other interface.
Old 2nd October 2014
  #550
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
We support 24 in, 24 out simultaneously over USB

I read that somewhere in the avb routing manual. On a windows device this would be same I guess? And which inputs can't you use. So if you use the 16 inputs from a motu 16a. And connect two channelstrips/converters on adat. which would make 32 inputs together. Which inputs are canceled? Is one adat in and output disabled? Or inputs 1-4 from adat A and B? Or any configuration, but can't use more than 24 in out. Thanks in advance!
Old 3rd October 2014
  #551
Quote:
Originally Posted by milwel traamen View Post
Which inputs are canceled? Is one adat in and output disabled? Or inputs 1-4 from adat A and B? Or any configuration, but can't use more than 24 in out. Thanks in advance!
Well, that's entirely up to you! You control which channels are routed to and from the computer. If you want ADAT A 3-6, Analog 1-16, and mix channels 1-4, you can do that. Only the computer's USB connection is limited to 24 in and out: the interface itself is not. You could still route hundreds of channels over AVB to other interfaces; use the internal mixer to do submixes; or send over ADAT to another interface.
Old 3rd October 2014
  #552
Gear Nut
 
andydeckstrous's Avatar
 

Have any users had chance to compare the DAC quality with other products at all- really interested in the performance of these boxes. For 16 outs into summing the 16A looks fantastic alongside my prism lyra as a capture ADC / monitor DAC. Seems a hard box to get to hear in the UK and comments on the thread so far have not been detailed from a sonic analysis perspective. The DAC is really what I am excited to hear and compare with other products on the market- specs wise huge potential
Old 3rd October 2014
  #553
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andydeckstrous View Post
The DAC is really what I am excited to hear and compare with other products on the market- specs wise huge potential
In terms of transparency, the 16A was recently added to the loop test thread here

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/10430297-post605.html

The results for the 16A in this particular test find it sandwiched between the Apogee Symphony and the Prism ADA-8XR.

Personally, I'm much more interested in the sound of the preamps on the new MOTU units and how much (or little) noise they exhibit when pushed...
Old 3rd October 2014
  #554
Gear Nut
 
andydeckstrous's Avatar
 

Thanks for the link- will take a listen- certainly suggests they belong in excellent company! Lets hope the preamps are great for those who need them too- well thought out interfaces these...
Old 3rd October 2014
  #555
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

This 16A thing is getting very interesting indeed. Will give one a listen very soon. If it does what I think it might it will be a my next purchase. Could be greatness.
Old 3rd October 2014
  #556
Gear Nut
 
andydeckstrous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
This 16A thing is getting very interesting indeed. Will give one a listen very soon. If it does what I think it might it will be a my next purchase. Could be greatness.
My fingers are crossed- depending on what apogee drop next week I might order one- another listening session at LCM?
Old 3rd October 2014
  #557
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andydeckstrous View Post
My fingers are crossed- depending on what apogee drop next week I might order one- another listening session at LCM?
Could be, could be.... I'll hopefully get the Motu in next week or week after latest at mine to compare with my present rig. I want to hear happy differences or I won't bother, but something tells me I will.
Old 6th October 2014
  #558
Lives for gear
 
emrr's Avatar
Sound is an improvement, no issues for me there. See all the measurements I posted for one part of that.

The control app is where all my issues lie, I'd like to see something like 'direct hardware playthrough' come about. Without it, analog mixing is twice as much work, with two mixing paths to keep track of. I have no idea how anyone else deals with these issues, I never have before. Singer decides to take one last crack at a vocal when you’re about to print a final mix, and his input chain eats 4 channels, and he switches around between lead and 3 harmonies? Not easy. Those things are automatic and mindless when the DAW can switch and compensate in the way DP did with the PCI product line. It might be negligible if you could run with very low buffers, but I can’t, and I suspect most can’t. We all build mixes as we track, which means various bits of processing come on line and higher buffers are required to deal with the overhead. It’s rare that I can safely start a tracking session with buffers under 256 on a 2012 iMac 3.4 i7. Clients can hear that if you route through the DAW while tracking, and punch-ins are not a seamless procedure with ANY routing combo of DAW, DAW/Control app, or Control app.


Comments on Control app updates:

The gate now has useful timing ranges.

Computer volume control disable! Yes!! Now I don’t have to watch out for the controls on the keyboard changing what happens with channels 1-2.

The compressor is still 'broken as designed'. No compressor should ever have an automatic gain boost when enabled, nor should increasing ratio automatically turn up gain without gain reduction occurring. You could not turn this on and adjust during a live mixing environment. It feels like the design started as a 'one knob' compressor with automatic makeup gain, then morphed into multiple knobs that still interact.
Old 6th October 2014
  #559
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Am I to understand the mix app does not offer straight through audio from input to output to avoid latency when monitoring?? Isn't that the prime reason to have it?
Old 6th October 2014
  #560
Lives for gear
 
emrr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Am I to understand the mix app does not offer straight through audio from input to output to avoid latency when monitoring?? Isn't that the prime reason to have it?
It does. As far as I can tell this does not solve the problem of monitoring during punch-ins, considering latency, switching of source at moment of punch-in, etc. The DAW has to be integrated in the process, or you get multiple paths of the same sound source after a punch-in. It would work beautifully if the mix app was the only mixer you intended to use, AND you never did a punch-in to a playback source. Trouble free mixing for live gigs or recordings without overdubs.

You route the input to the mix app and also to the computer.
You can also route the computer to the mix app, or to interface outputs; effectively no difference for the problem at hand. Low latency input mixing with buffered audio for overdubs.
Punch-in with this scenario: You hear both until moment of punch, at punch you then hear just the part being recorded, being the low latency path AND the buffered playback path from the computer. Doubly! If you don't route it from both places, you can't hear it all.
This would be fine if all one ever did was track stand-alone parts with the intent of editing everything together after the fact. As-is it creates another layer of planning and configuration at best, no clean monitoring option at worst.

Let's consider skipping the mix app altogether. Practically speaking this means you choose to live with latency, which for practical purposes described in the previous post makes tracking monitoring impossible. If you can do every bit of a recording with no processing in the DAW at all, and run at very low buffers, you might tolerate it. I don't think many people can do that, or are at all willing to do that. It's an extremely inelegant thought that creates large inefficiencies in the way most engineers on the clock/client's dime work.

Again, I don't know how other interfaces do it, or don't. This may be a universal problem outside the scope of these interfaces. The MOTU PCI line worked beautifully with DP in this regard, allowing you to hear input sources before processing/efx for low/no latency monitoring, which switched perfectly at the moment of punch-in without multiple sound paths in the monitoring. This product line when used with DP only allows monitoring of input sources through processing, reflecting whatever buffer latency exists. I'd love for someone to explain what big insight I'm missing operationally. Maybe it really is a sad sad world and the old PCI line was the only thing out there that got it right, and no one ever complained.
Old 6th October 2014
  #561
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

I don't quite understand. Wouldn't you just switch off Software Monitoring in your DAW, so when you punch in all you hear is the mixer's low latency version and nothing through the DAW (hence nothing's double) and when you punch out you would again hear the original, previously recorded audio?

Of course you would have the input open all the time, so your performer would constantly hear themselves (and you them) whether punched in or whether old audio is playing back off the track. Not an issue for me, kind of how I want it.

Am I missing something?
Old 6th October 2014
  #562
Lives for gear
 
emrr's Avatar
Nope, you're not. I gotta use a different input monitoring mode; found it. I think. Congrats, you are the first to point it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
I'd love for someone to explain what big insight I'm missing operationally.
'Direct hardware playthrough' in DP takes care of all this without you ever having to think about it, or needing a parallel mixing path for live inputs, and it's the only way I've ever worked. With 'DHP' input monitor mode works fine in 'auto'. Input monitoring mode without 'DHP' has to be set 'off', and you have to set up a parallel path via the control app mixer. It's still less elegant actively driving a monitor sub-mixer, but it works.

So now I'll add mix inputs to the control app mixer, so that can be heard too.


OK, something to add to the manual(s)!


I'll still have 'DHP' back if possible, please!
Old 8th October 2014
  #563
Gear Maniac
 

One thing is unclear to me, maybe someone here can help. In station one of my studio I'd like to use (1) 16A with 2 OctoPre (focusrite) coming through ADAT. (This is what I do with my 896mk3 now).

Now, in a different location in my studio, I's like to use the 1248 for a different rack of equipment.

Am I understanding this correctly that I can use the AVB router and attach both the 16A and 1248 to this, and then I can hook to either interface through thunderbolt (Using a mac pro trashcan) And I can access ALL the I/O of all the interfaces through the thunderbolt?

Before I drop down $3500 I want to make sure I understand that this is possible.
Old 8th October 2014
  #564
Lives for gear
 
beau_mckee's Avatar
Now we are starting to see new converters filling the awkward void in the prosumer market place such as the motu & new apogee ensemble. Keen to learn people's thoughts with these two units being discussed.

The motu units pricing among other features still look quite appealing even after apogees latest release, but all new interfaces of course are welcome
Old 8th October 2014
  #565
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grimepoch View Post
One thing is unclear to me, maybe someone here can help. In station one of my studio I'd like to use (1) 16A with 2 OctoPre (focusrite) coming through ADAT. (This is what I do with my 896mk3 now).

Now, in a different location in my studio, I's like to use the 1248 for a different rack of equipment.

Am I understanding this correctly that I can use the AVB router and attach both the 16A and 1248 to this, and then I can hook to either interface through thunderbolt (Using a mac pro trashcan) And I can access ALL the I/O of all the interfaces through the thunderbolt?

Before I drop down $3500 I want to make sure I understand that this is possible.
Actually, it sounds like if I am only using two MOTU interfaces, I do not need the AVB router, I just hook them together with CAT5e or CAT6. Anyone try this?
Old 8th October 2014
  #566
nms
Lives for gear
 
nms's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau_mckee View Post
Now we are starting to see new converters filling the awkward void in the prosumer market place such as the motu & new apogee ensemble. Keen to learn people's thoughts with these two units being discussed.

The motu units pricing among other features still look quite appealing even after apogees latest release, but all new interfaces of course are welcome
I have a hunch Apogee may have the edge for latency, as their new TB only Ensemble bests their Thunderbridge in that regard and has no FX or onboard USB. It could be a negligible amount though.

For conversion you're comparing one company's flagship model with one company's second tier model. The Motu have DC coupled converters (like Hilo & Symphony) where the Ensemble does not. Motu AVB series uses the Sabre32 converters for DAC/ADC where Ensemble uses the Sabre32 for DAC only. With the AVB series I'd say you get more for your money than anything else in its class by a good margin.

The Ensemble has 2 TB ports instead of just one, but no networking.
Old 8th October 2014
  #567
The 16a looks very appealing to me but judging that my old 828 mk3 conversion was muffled crap I pretty weary about anything motu these days
Old 8th October 2014
  #568
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimepoch View Post
One thing is unclear to me, maybe someone here can help. In station one of my studio I'd like to use (1) 16A with 2 OctoPre (focusrite) coming through ADAT. (This is what I do with my 896mk3 now).

Now, in a different location in my studio, I's like to use the 1248 for a different rack of equipment.

Am I understanding this correctly that I can use the AVB router and attach both the 16A and 1248 to this, and then I can hook to either interface through thunderbolt (Using a mac pro trashcan) And I can access ALL the I/O of all the interfaces through the thunderbolt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimepoch View Post
Actually, it sounds like if I am only using two MOTU interfaces, I do not need the AVB router, I just hook them together with CAT5e or CAT6. Anyone try this?
Yup, absolutely! You can route any of the ins or outs over the network from the remote box as needed, up to 128 ins and 128 outs per interface. You're completely in control of that routing, too. You only need a switch if you're using more than two interfaces or need to cover more than 100 meters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
I have a hunch Apogee may have the edge for latency, as their new TB only Ensemble bests their Thunderbridge in that regard and has no FX or onboard USB. It could be a negligible amount though.
The latency numbers are pretty similar, with a slight edge for Apogee as you say: 1.1ms vs 1.3ms at 96khz/32 sample buffers. That difference becomes pretty negligible at higher buffer sizes and lower sample rates, however. The mixer and DSP only add 6 samples of latency total. As well, the option of USB doesn't affect the latency when using Thunderbolt.
Old 8th October 2014
  #569
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyjneilson View Post
The 16a looks very appealing to me but judging that my old 828 mk3 conversion was muffled crap I pretty weary about anything motu these days
I'm sorry to hear about your experience with the 828 mk3. I will say that we completely redesigned these interfaces from the ground up, with new converters (Sabre32 Ultras), drivers, etc. They may look similar on the outside but looks can be deceiving: the inside is all new. We put a ton of work into these and we're really proud of the results. If you get a chance to check out a 16A, I'd love to hear what you think, especially given your past experience.

Last edited by mrmiller; 8th October 2014 at 07:38 PM.. Reason: Typo
Old 8th October 2014
  #570
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
I'm sorry to hear about your experience with the 828 mk3. I will say that we completely redesigned these interfaces from the ground up, with new converters (Sabre32 Ultras), drivers, etc. They may look similar on the outside but looks can be deceiving: the inside is all new. We put a ton of work into these and we're really proud of the results. If you get a chance to check out a 16A, I'd love to hear what you think, especially given your past experience.
Well that is good news then because the 828mk3 was the worst conversion I had ever heard the lack of clarity was unbelievable. I went to an Echo after that and was very please with what my money got me. Better imaging, better quality conversion. If this can offer me the same quality or better conversion that my Audiofire12 gave me then I just may give MOTU another chance.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump