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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 8th September 2014
  #451
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPl View Post
Would the 16A work out daisy chained to a Hilo TB?
We haven't tested it with that interface specifically but it should work. Part of getting Thunderbolt-certified by Apple and Intel involves rigorous testing with very long daisy chains and varied configurations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenone View Post
I'm in the market for and upgrade. I currently run a Metric Halo 2882, and a BLA modified ADA8000. My goal is to get 32 analog in/out. My original plan was to either replace my current set up with an Orion 32, or add a Lynx 16, or UA 16. Then I saw saw the 16A. My concern is MOTU conversion/sound quality. I sold my 828MKII for the Metric Halo, and was blown away by the difference in quality. For anyone who has heard these, how does the 16A compare to the 828MKII, if its in the same league, not interested. If it's at least as good as my current setup, I'd be interested. How does it compare to the ones I've mentioned?
The AVB interfaces all have newer and better converters (Sabre32 Ultras). From my (clearly biased) perspective, these are the best-sounding interfaces we've made. For more objective measurements, emrr has posted some pretty graphs and results back on page 12 (e.g., here). As for the subjective... I'd say give it a try yourself and see how it sounds. Definitely let us know what you think, positive or otherwise. We're always looking to make things better!

As well, a lot of users have already given their feedback earlier in this thread. I don't want to speak for them but hopefully you can get a sense of things from their experiences so far.
Old 9th September 2014
  #452
Gear Nut
 

my 16a should arrive friday. going to be using it conjunction with my 896mk3, which i think i'll eventually replace if they bring out an AVB ultralite as the brains of the operation with portable functionality.
Old 9th September 2014
  #453
Gear Nut
Quote:
Be sure to listen at all sample rates. I seem to remember my MOTU 8M sounding really muffled at 96KHz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
This is curious to me. If you look at my response plots earlier in the thread, there's no obvious reason for this. I would suspect possible sample rate conflict in the setup that wasn't obviously glitching.
Yeah, it did seem... not what I expected. Your plots are what I would hope to see. But I heard a distinct rolloff running at 96KHz, and when I check it with RMAA, the high end was down 14dB at 20KHz, starting at 10KHz! Not a sample rate thing. Maybe an impedance thing since the outputs aren't truly balanced? 48KHz was spot-on. Weird.

I'm becoming a converter geek
Old 9th September 2014
  #454
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beau_mckee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
Good thing you mentioned! I have no recollection of it but I see it there now. I'll run it through RMAA when I get a moment and post in the next 24h. Thanks.
Hey there NMS, any more news on this?
Old 9th September 2014
  #455
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Cornvalley's Avatar
Anyone else having problems with the Web Browser connecting with the interface? Sometimes it's there and then you come back after some sleep mode and it just does not want to connect. Interface is still operative but no web app. Brings everything to a halt nicely! Any advise from MOTU would be appreciated.
Old 9th September 2014
  #456
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emrr's Avatar
Every now and then I have to close the browser window and reopen because it's disconnected. Never while working, only after I've gone to lunch, or some other long break.
Old 9th September 2014
  #457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornvalley View Post
Anyone else having problems with the Web Browser connecting with the interface? Sometimes it's there and then you come back after some sleep mode and it just does not want to connect. Interface is still operative but no web app. Brings everything to a halt nicely! Any advise from MOTU would be appreciated.
Does refreshing the page fix things or does it take a restart of the interface?
Old 9th September 2014
  #458
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTools View Post
Maybe an impedance thing since the outputs aren't truly balanced? 48KHz was spot-on. Weird.
Just to clarify since there was a lot of discussion about this recently: the outputs on the interfaces are indeed fully differential balanced outputs. Are you referring to different outputs?
Old 9th September 2014
  #459
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emrr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldTools View Post
Yeah, it did seem... not what I expected. Your plots are what I would hope to see. But I heard a distinct rolloff running at 96KHz, and when I check it with RMAA, the high end was down 14dB at 20KHz, starting at 10KHz! Not a sample rate thing. Maybe an impedance thing since the outputs aren't truly balanced?
That has to be some other physical problem. I'd run the test again if I saw that result. Wouldn't be related to the output structure, and the test should be the same connection scheme and same cabling at all rates, nothing changed but the rate itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
Does refreshing the page fix things or does it take a restart of the interface?
Here it just requires a page refresh via the 'MOTU AVB Devices' window.
Old 9th September 2014
  #460
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Cornvalley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
Does refreshing the page fix things or does it take a restart of the interface?
Not always, that is what's frustrating. I'll refresh and wait while the graphic does it's little dance, then wait, and wait. How long should wait before I restart the browser or restart the interface or restart the computer? I have found restarting the computer clears things up so maybe the network connection times out or something like that. With the SSD boot drive it's a quick task to restart and be up and running again.
Old 9th September 2014
  #461
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emrr's Avatar
5, maybe 10 seconds here for page refresh. It's faster than the 16A boot. TB connection and fusion drive here.
Old 10th September 2014
  #462
Here for the gear
 

I'm eager to purchase a 1248 but I'm a little hesitant with thunderbolt 3 about a year out and USB 3.1 just around the corner. Can anybody comment on the MOTU refresh cycle? Is it yearly or less frequent?

mrmiller would you be able to provide a rough ETA for the Windows drivers? Weeks? Months? Years? Thanks for your contributions to this thread.
Old 10th September 2014
  #463
Here for the gear
 

I wondering if I can use the 16a with my danger music d box?
Old 12th September 2014
  #464
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
It works standalone with all ins/outs routing as discrete channels to your computer, it's one of the presets. If you need specific routings not covered in the presets, you have to build them using the app, it's far too complex for me to imagine full routing control from the front panel. At least not without it driving you crazy! At any rate, it's not an option currently.

If you have an iPhone or iPad, you could hook up a wireless router to the MOTU unit and set up routing via wifi, no wired connection to a computer. It shows up in your browser when you search the address of the unit.

You should have no problem connecting it via ADAT to RME 9652 right now, that's what I'm doing currently with a MOTU 2408mkIII.
Hi EMRR: I have a 2408 mk3 and I want to conect the adat outputs from it to adat inputs of the 16a to gwet analog outputs Is that possible ?
How you do this ?
Old 12th September 2014
  #465
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emrr's Avatar
2408mkIII can only have digital OR analog input, so can’t go both directions in standalone mode.

At 44K1/48K, any single ADAT input (A, B, or C) passes audio out the analog connectors.
Selecting A/B/C ADAT input does not pass output audio.

As a result, 8 channel analog output at 88K2/96K is not possible, 4 channel is.

8 channel analog input will pass to ADAT outputs at all sample rates.


I have a 2408mk3 PCIe card in a G5 which is slaved via word clock to a 16A on an iMac. That way I can use routing in the G5 to have both inputs and outputs on the 2408 transfer via ADAT to/from the 16A. This is not considered 'standalone' mode.
Old 13th September 2014
  #466
Is there a big difference between these new MOTU thunderbolt interfaces and the 828x.

I need a minimum of 8 ins to accommodate 3 stereo signal synths and one mono. Obviously I'll be adding more but going above 8 costs a lot.

Also, not gonna lie, my monitoring is ****e. I use a Scarlett 2i4 with KRK Rokit 5s and 10" sub. I live in an apartment and my studio is in a loft with only a partial wall on one side, not ideal, so I usually track and partially mix on cans. I use the monitoring to zero in the low end mostly. Despite these limitations my mixes are always getting better and are pretty good. So I need to make a decision, and these MOTUs seem to make the most sense. I'm a Mac-Logic X user. If considering that I will be adding at least 4 more in over the next year , are there any other options I should be considering? Or should I just be looking at going ADAT with a lesser smaller interface to bring in a couple more synths? Just trying to plan accordingly, thanks.
Old 13th September 2014
  #467
Okay, so it appears the 16A is just straight up a bunch of I/O. That's great, but would need to add something else for D/A monitoring? Maybe a little Apogee or RME for that job.

The 1248 probably makes the most sense for me. Is the headphone out amplified? All this extra DSP-Fx....does anyone use that stuff? I guess if you're a guitar player or you're recording your band. I'm all electronic stuff.
Old 13th September 2014
  #468
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
Okay, so it appears the 16A is just straight up a bunch of I/O. That's great, but would need to add something else for D/A monitoring? Maybe a little Apogee or RME for that job.
Why?
Old 13th September 2014
  #469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Why?
The other unit has dedicated outs for monitoring (main out 1&2)......not this one. Are you saying you just use any of the analog outputs as monitoring and route accordingly?.....not trying to put words in your mouth

I hate this crap. There are so many options, I just want something that works well, and that I barely realize is there.

I ask because a lot of people seem to maybe use another interface for monitoring entirely. Perhaps one with top o' the line convertors, like a Hilo, ......just a small unit. Although, I only have one thundebolt deal. I suppose USB would do fine for monitoring. IDK, like I said, I don't think investing in world class D/A conversion will help me much because of my situation.
Old 13th September 2014
  #470
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
The other unit has dedicated outs for monitoring (main out 1&2)......not this one. Are you saying you just use any of the analog outputs as monitoring and route accordingly?.....not trying to put words in your mouth

I hate this crap. There are so many options, I just want something that works well, and that I barely realize is there.

I ask because a lot of people seem to maybe use another interface for monitoring entirely. Perhaps one with top o' the line convertors, like a Hilo, ......just a small unit. Although, I only have one thundebolt deal. I suppose USB would do fine for monitoring. IDK, like I said, I don't think investing in world class D/A conversion will help me much because of my situation.
A few thoughts;

- Yes, what I was thinking/saying. Why not? What most people do.

- USB won't sound different.

- I'd expect if you had a 16A as main outs to mix/monitor with that it would definitely not be your weakest link. If anything, get better speakers first or you might not actually hear much difference anyway, Hilo or otherwise.

- if you have several converters you get several latencies, which is a little tedious if you reprint stuff and/or use them both for recording.

Old 13th September 2014
  #471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
A few thoughts;

- Yes, what I was thinking/saying. Why not? What most people do.

- USB won't sound different.

- I'd expect if you had a 16A as main outs to mix/monitor with that it would definitely not be your weakest link. If anything, get better speakers first or you might not actually hear much difference anyway, Hilo or otherwise.

- if you have several converters you get several latencies, which is a little tedious if you reprint stuff and/or use them both for recording.

Got it, I hear ya. I will be adding mid-range monitors too, and I'm really not concerned with having the best of everything. I mean my
mixes keep getting better and I get a lot of compliments using high-end dj cans and the rokits, so whatev. I know I will hear more, guess I'll find out.

What do you mean multiple convertors? You mean the Motu for synths/outboard, another interface for my monitoring, and say a third connected via ADAT. All those convertors are different and at different latencies, things will be a mess, huh?

This is where I'm at. Going from a very basic home studio, to more serious amateur. I have some reading to do. I just hate talking to my sweetwater rep who guides me to the priciest option, or my guitar center salesman who usually knows even less that I do.

These new MOTU thunderbolt deals seem like a good fit offering plenty of I/O, and better convertors than my Focusrite. The Scarlett is rock solid though and latency is miniscule. Never had an issue with it for even a second. Good strong headphone amp too. Maybe I'll get an 18i20 and the MOTU 1248 and compare some things.

When you work at 44.1, does it really matter if you have the best D/A convertors ever, hearing all the detail possible if you're just gonna record at 44.1?

Thanks
Old 13th September 2014
  #472
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
edit - I have some reading to do. I just hate talking to my sweetwater rep who guides me to the priciest option, or my guitar center salesman who usually knows even less that I do.

edit

When you work at 44.1, does it really matter if you have the best D/A convertors ever, hearing all the detail possible if you're just gonna record at 44.1?

Thanks
I have had excellent responses from MY sweetwater rep, and I always deal with the same guy, Jeff Barnett. Once I asked him not to call me out of the blue, he stopped. And I am not a high spender... Hope it is okay to recommend him:

"If you have questions about your current equipment or need professional advice on selecting new gear, please give us a call right away at (800) 222-4700. Jeff's extension is 1283. You can also e-mail Jeff at [email protected] "

And it doesn't matter what SR you record at, and in fact *I* feel that the lower the rate the more important good A/D can be. It is my feeling, but with the business name of Intuitive Audio, feelings and hunches are part of how I do life and business!

Best luck,
L
Old 13th September 2014
  #473
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emrr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
- I'd expect if you had a 16A as main outs to mix/monitor with that it would definitely not be your weakest link. If anything, get better speakers first or you might not actually hear much difference anyway, Hilo or otherwise.
Yeah, it definitely won't be your weakest link. The 16A sounds better than anything I've ever owned in the past, last thing being 2408mkIII and 24i/o. The Alesis HD24XR converters sounded a little better than the old MOTU.

I use pairs of the 16A for mix input and monitor playback.

Looking back at the 2408, there was a separate main output pair, but they are just an extra set of connectors for outputs 1-2, with a volume control. That volume control was dangerous because it had no headroom past 0dBFS, AND it has additional gain past unity. In other words, you can bump the volume knob slightly above 70% and a FS output will clip the analog master output section. Really not a good design, AND it's not really a dedicated master output, since 1-2 are the same outputs; it's not 1-8 out AND master out.
Old 13th September 2014
  #474
nms
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nms's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
The 1248 probably makes the most sense for me.
The 1248 is easily your best bet, and no you would not use any other interfaces with it. Take Hilo off the table completely as you need more I/O and would be better off saving the rest of your cash towards proper monitors.

I've been busy on a studio build (and the last rays of summer!) so I haven't posted the RMAA results yet. I need to reinstall the version used to generate the test sweeps I sent Doug to get it analyzing 100% properly, but what I'm seeing is that these units are amazingly clean. Definitely beyond anything in the RME lineup and around the next best thing to a Symphony.
Old 14th September 2014
  #475
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emrr's Avatar
Thanks, that confirms what my ears are telling me. It seems crazy, but there is newfound clarity in the character of various external noise floors that you wouldn't think were appreciable based on the numbers. A new 'blackest black' for me.
Old 14th September 2014
  #476
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

I bet these things rock. Pretty tempting at some point soon......

Anyone using one of these over USB, and how are you finding it?
Old 14th September 2014
  #477
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
Just wanted to let everyone know that we just released our first driver update (1.0.1)! For those of you with the Mac AVB Discovery app installed, you should be seeing a notification soon. It includes a bunch of bug fixes as well as improved round-trip latency—now down to 135 samples at 32 sample buffers over Thunderbolt.
Hi Mr Miller. What's the USB latency on a mac with the new driver, please?
Old 15th September 2014
  #478
Gear Nut
 



Sounding good so far
Old 15th September 2014
  #479
Gear Head
 
martin909's Avatar
AVB? Bad choice. Should have been Audinate's Dante. With Dante you can use your regular network switches.
Old 15th September 2014
  #480
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by martin909 View Post
AVB? Bad choice. Should have been Audinate's Dante. With Dante you can use your regular network switches.
...at a much higher latency...

However, with the upcoming Dante Via, you should be able to integrate any audio interface, like the 1248, into a Dante network (with higher latency as AVB, though)

So it's more like a bonus with the new Motu interfaces to support low latency AVB
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