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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 21st August 2014
  #391
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmiller View Post
We will deliver solid Windows drivers and are working hard to make sure we get them right. We're still coding so I don't feel comfortable making a prediction without being confident in its accuracy. That said, almost all current development efforts are cross-platform: everything in the web app control software, for instance.
Sorry to interrupt: I've got an open tech link #89308, describing a Win driver issue (that might damage health and equipment btw), confirmed by the tech support. However, there doesn't seem to be any improvement to the win drivers since nearly a year now.

Any statement on the issue please?
Old 22nd August 2014
  #392
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beau_mckee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabSel View Post
Sorry to interrupt: I've got an open tech link #89308, describing a Win driver issue (that might damage health and equipment btw), confirmed by the tech support. However, there doesn't seem to be any improvement to the win drivers since nearly a year now.

Any statement on the issue please?
Hmmmm these motu units have only been out for a few weeks. Maybe you're confused with an older product perhaps?
Old 22nd August 2014
  #393
Lives for gear
 
beau_mckee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabSel View Post
Sorry to interrupt: I've got an open tech link #89308, describing a Win driver issue (that might damage health and equipment btw), confirmed by the tech support. However, there doesn't seem to be any improvement to the win drivers since nearly a year now.

Any statement on the issue please?
Hmmmm these motu units have only been out for a few weeks. Maybe you're confused with an older product perhaps?
Old 22nd August 2014
  #394
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beau_mckee View Post
Hmmmm these motu units have only been out for a few weeks. Maybe you're confused with an older product perhaps?
I think he's referring to another MOTU product, probably the 828x. I reckon he's inquiring about MOTU support for Windows drivers in General.

I saw this user in the Cakewalk SONAR forum some months ago (over at the Cakewlak forums) and he wasn't happy with the Windows driver for a 828x unit he purchased. So since he's seen MOTU employees joining in the discussion here, I guess he's trying to take advantage of the opportunity to get an answer about his 828x Windows driver related experiences.
Old 22nd August 2014
  #395
Gear Head
 

Yes, correct. As said, I'm sorry when interrupting things here, but I don't know whome to address anymore. The support tells me since months that the tech department is informed and able to reproduce the issue, they are working on it, but ...

Meanwhile MOTU release a complete new batch of gear.

The issue is with the 828x producing harsh digital distortion on adat channels b5/6 when connected to the pc via USB and opening closing cuemix fx, or adjusting settings in the control panel. Connected to headphones I literally felt from my chair

Issue is reported and confirmed the beginning of this year I believe. Nothing's getting done about it yet.
Old 22nd August 2014
  #396
Gear Nut
 

I was keen 16a but now realised that you can't plug regular quarter-inch TS cables into the back? What a pain. It seemed so good!
Old 22nd August 2014
  #397
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperfuzz View Post
I was keen 16a but now realised that you can't plug regular quarter-inch TS cables into the back? What a pain. It seemed so good!
They are 1/4 in TRS (Balanced/Unbalanced), so should accept unbalanced TS no problem. Did MOTU say you can't?
Old 22nd August 2014
  #398
These look great!!! I've had my MOTU 828 MKII for such a long time now! I can't wait to upgrade.

Has anyone combined a 1248, and a 16A?
Old 22nd August 2014
  #399
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masaaki View Post
They are 1/4 in TRS (Balanced/Unbalanced), so should accept unbalanced TS no problem. Did MOTU say you can't?
the manual is very confusing in that respect, maybe it's just the outputs and not the inputs? can the MOTU man chime in?
Old 22nd August 2014
  #400
Gear Nut
 

"The 16A’s sixteen analog outputs are balanced TRS quarter-inch connectors that can also accept an unbalanced plug (with the ring disconnected).The output trim can be adjusted from the Output Setting section of the Device Tab in the MOTU AVB Control web app software."
Old 23rd August 2014
  #401
Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
There are a lot of people who found the Orion conversion quality to be around the level of RME or the Apollo. In general it's not been regarded as coming near the Symphony and the converter chips used are definitely a lower grade than those found in either the Symphony or the new Motu lineup.

Antelope has always been the subject of eye rolling with many people due to the snake oil vibe. Stuff like "Acoustically Focussed Clocking" and claims of "the most authentic analog sounding conversion on the market" are pretty dodgy. I don't think they make bad products, just stuff that's hyped and (sometimes) priced way beyond its merit. I'll bet these new Motu units will easily have better conversion. They're certainly higher spec'd.
Really, a LOT of people? The level of RME or the Apollo, snake oil, priced beyond its merit...

Have you used them both? I have and I do not agree. Several of my engineer friends have heard the differences and agree with me. I had a UFX for a year, I sold it an bought an Orion. It has made both my recordings and my mixes sound better. Frankly I think it's very well priced for its feature set.

As far as the new MOTU interfaces go, I like MOTU in general and we shall see as they get out there.
Old 23rd August 2014
  #402
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperfuzz View Post
"The 16A’s sixteen analog outputs are balanced TRS quarter-inch connectors that can also accept an unbalanced plug (with the ring disconnected).The output trim can be adjusted from the Output Setting section of the Device Tab in the MOTU AVB Control web app software."
Same is true on the 8M... MrMiller, what will happen if a TS plug is used?

Owners, has anyone tried this? MY first tests of my 8M were with TS cables to my monitors, and I noticed no ill effects. Generally I would use balanced cables, but what will happen with TS connectors, that makes the manual say this?

Fortunately the inputs are okay with unbalanced TS commectors...

Thanks,
<L>
Old 23rd August 2014
  #403
Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Same is true on the 8M... MrMiller, what will happen if a TS plug is used?

Owners, has anyone tried this? MY first tests of my 8M were with TS cables to my monitors, and I noticed no ill effects. Generally I would use balanced cables, but what will happen with TS connectors, that makes the manual say this?

Fortunately the inputs are okay with unbalanced TS commectors...

Thanks,
<L>
Using pure TS cables on the outputs might lead to distorted sound.
Old 23rd August 2014
  #404
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loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandvg99 View Post
Using pure TS cables on the outputs might lead to distorted sound.
I must say that is a defective design, and should be unecessary.

Mr Miller, can you explain why this is? Thousands of audio products have outputs that can be balanced or un with no ill effects... The only units I have seen that need the ring lifted are dbx 150s. And they are about 30 years old!

I use mainly balanced, but very curious why this impractical design?
Old 23rd August 2014
  #405
Again, this is a cost issue. Outputs that tolerate TS cables (=shorting neg/cold to ground) have more complex (expensive) circuits...

This is of no concern to me, and if it is to you, at least MOTU clearly states what to do, which is more than many other manufactures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
I must say that is a defective design, and should be unecessary.

Mr Miller, can you explain why this is? Thousands of audio products have outputs that can be balanced or un with no ill effects... The only units I have seen that need the ring lifted are dbx 150s. And they are about 30 years old!

I use mainly balanced, but very curious why this impractical design?
Old 23rd August 2014
  #406
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loujudson's Avatar
It is not a problem but I am very curious. Much less expensive units do not have this problem. I only am asking Mr Miller why it is... not anyone else!

I do have a long pair of insert cables that I rarely use, if I needed to use the analog outs. On remote recordings, I would be using a pair of outs to drive a headphone amp I have that has unbalanced inputs.

And to askkaereby RE: "Again, this is a cost issue. Outputs that tolerate TS cables (=shorting neg/cold to ground) have more complex (expensive) circuits..."
So do you think Mackie mixer outputs are more complex and expensive? Your answer is too general, and inaccurate.
Old 23rd August 2014
  #407
Well excuse me for adding my 2 cents to the forum thread

But in case anyone reads other posts than those of Mr. Miller:

Yes, Mackie (or any other TRS-outputs) that tolerate unbalancing by TS-cables are more complex than standard balanced (or unbalanced) outputs, this adds to the cost. (But of course there are other ways to make things expensive.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
It is not a problem but I am very curious. Much less expensive units do not have this problem. I only am asking Mr Miller why it is... not anyone else!

I do have a long pair of insert cables that I rarely use, if I needed to use the analog outs. On remote recordings, I would be using a pair of outs to drive a headphone amp I have that has unbalanced inputs.

And to askkaereby RE: "Again, this is a cost issue. Outputs that tolerate TS cables (=shorting neg/cold to ground) have more complex (expensive) circuits..."
So do you think Mackie mixer outputs are more complex and expensive? Your answer is too general, and inaccurate.
Old 23rd August 2014
  #408
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
But as I understand it, Mackies simply have a resistor-balanced single ended out put, and have been common (and cheap) for decades...
Old 23rd August 2014
  #409
That would make them pseudo-balanced (at best) and we're talking fully (electronic) balanced outs here, which is what I was referring to in my earlier post.
This was in the context of the thread, and your curiosity toward the MOTU
output design (on these specific products, which are balanced), but perhaps this wasn't made clear enough from my side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
But as I understand it, Mackies simply have a resistor-balanced single ended out put, and have been common (and cheap) for decades...
Old 23rd August 2014
  #410
Gear Addict
MOTU's drivers and software have been so stable and painless for me that I've found myself using their interfaces exclusively. I've been looking to upgrade my mobile interface from the 828 and was excited to see the 1248 … however …

I can't help but notice that every MOTU interface I own that's more than a few years old has a few problems, mostly in the preamps — phantom-power-related noise, digital clicks, or the occasional whine. It hasn't been much of an issue, especially since all of mine have been fairly inexpensive, but at $1400 I hope the long-term quality of the new MOTUs are an improvement.
Old 23rd August 2014
  #411
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by askkaereby View Post
That would make them pseudo-balanced (at best) and we're talking fully (electronic) balanced outs here, which is what I was referring to in my earlier post.
This was in the context of the thread, and your curiosity toward the MOTU
output design (on these specific products, which are balanced), but perhaps this wasn't made clear enough from my side.
Excellent post ^^^
Yes most Mackie outputs are impedance balanced (not all - main outs are often fully driven) making them fairly decent as far as rejection goes on the receiving end of balanced inputs (~30dB to 40dB Common mode noise rejection). Full electronic balanced outputs are not necessarily much better at CM rejection once the signal gets to the next stage but present a 6dB hotter signal yielding better S/N - and hopefully CM rejection.

For interfacing fully electronic balanced outputs to unbalanced inputs the Long story short is to hook it up the way recommended. Ring open (or with 10K to sleeve) is the way to go. Shorting a driven output to ground is not advised (unless its designed to work that way). Us people with AVID i/o's have had to deal with this when interfacing with consumer equipment for years.
Old 23rd August 2014
  #412
Gear Nut
 

more worried about the inputs than the outputs... the 8M seems to have a different input design than the 16a. thoughts?
Old 24th August 2014
  #413
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emrr's Avatar
The inputs can take bal or unbal no problem.

Output:
Plug in a TS cable which shorts the R to S, and you will have higher distortion, I don't know how much.
Plug in a TRS cable and plug that into an unbalanced input, and you will probably be fine in most cases because most receiving equipment won't bother to use a TRS jack for a TS connection, thus the R will be floating.
Some things (Mackie 8 bus for one) do use TRS connectors for some unbalanced inputs so that transformer coupled outputs will be properly connected to ground on one side and thus function properly. You float half a transformer winding, you get no sound, so that's another problem to consider.

I imagine the chosen circuit was picked because it yielded the highest headroom for the dollar. I would alway prefer something like THAT output drivers that compensate for either bal or unbal, but they definitely cost more too. Impedance balanced work fine, but it's harder to get higher headroom numbers with it. I don't know where the dollar balance shakes out in mass production. Higher headroom may have been the trump card here, given the networking capabilities and likelihood that many of these will end up in large installations that also have very long analog lines.
Old 25th August 2014
  #414
Gear Addict
 
Lolo22's Avatar
 

Any more reviews on this?

Last edited by Lolo22; 29th August 2014 at 01:30 AM.. Reason: Dup
Old 25th August 2014
  #415
Gear Maniac
 
cioto's Avatar
 

I love the 16A for 32 channels of live recording, but I would miss the headphone out so much...
Old 25th August 2014
  #416
Loving my 8m. Great flexibility. Using my 828 MK3 as an optical expander and my MacBook pro for FX and recording.
Old 27th August 2014
  #417
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emrr's Avatar
Tonight I tracked a 2 gtr/bass/drums band that I've recorded twice previously, 16 live inputs.

The 16A still continues to sound a large step up from what I've heard coming out of 24i/o's and 2408mkIII's. The additional analog headroom is also really nice.
Old 28th August 2014
  #418
Here for the gear
 

Hi Guys!
I'm new to the forum but a long time user of MOTU interfaces (1x 2408MKI, 2x 2408MKIII, 1x 24i/o, 1x8Pre, 1x Ultralite Hybrid). They have all served me very well but I need to upgrade my sound "quality". So far, very few interfaces in the market were offering the amount of i/o as the MOTU PCIe range, which I require. This new set of interfaces (1248, 8M, 16A) is very promising but I really need to know about bench marking these to other well established players in the market - I'm not interested in specs but real listening performance. Has any one already made listening comparison tests with these interfaces? Can you share your findings? Thanks!
Old 29th August 2014
  #419
Gear Addict
 
Lolo22's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
care to remove your two duplicate posts?
Will do. Just away on work and struggling to delete from phone. GS should sort this dup out
Old 29th August 2014
  #420
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DougS's Avatar
 

I like the way the software works on these. If I'm reading the website right - instead of installing something on your computer and having this connect through the computer to the device - these new Motu's work like a network appliance (like a firewall or router). To access and manipulate the internal mixer, FX, Dynamics and setup screens, the device acts like a webserver that serves up web-pages. It looks like all the setup screens and mixers are HTML 5 pages that can be access from any browser on your computer, tablet or smartphone over a traditional LAN - this includes a wireless network (assuming you have wireless router). Allowing you to sit in a prime listening spot to mix a live production from a tablet - without being constrained by cables.

Looks like you can bring one of these Motu units and a small wireless router to a live gig. Connect it to the router with a short CAT5 line (no computer needed). Then go to your iPad or android tablet, punch in the device's URL, login and start mixing in real time from anywhere in the building. Very nice.
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