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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface
Old 2nd August 2020 | Show parent
  #4051
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gravyface's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Budd View Post
They don't use CueMix - CueMix is for the previous generation of MOTU interfaces.

The settings of the AVB interfaces (including mixing) are controlled through a web browser, referred to as "Pro Audio Control"

When you have linked and configured two units together via AVB your DAW only recognises the unit that is connected via USB/TB. Channels on the "slave" unit are seen as additional inputs and outputs on the primary unit.
Ok, so I would see an aggregate number of inputs and outputs in the DAW, which would start incrementing from the master (inputs 1-14 would be the 1248 as master via TB, with inputs 15 to 22 the 828es, as slave)
Old 2nd August 2020 | Show parent
  #4052
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
MOTU tech support seemed to think it would be doable and straightforward, so fingers crossed.

I could keep the Qu-24 too, and just run outs from the MOTUs to the Qu stereo inputs, but I’d rather sell it.
As noted by Billy Budd, it's not CueMix anymore, but a new web browser based interface.

Regarding it's ease of use, there are 2 separate considerations:-

1) Managing the AVB device itself, routing, setting up mixes etc - there IS a learning curve here, but it's easy enough if you take it slow, and reference the manual and videos. Getting the routing panel nailed and how changes to the device translates to your DAW is critical here. Each device is a 48 channel DSP mixer so the screens can get a bit busy dependening on what you are trying to achieve - the bigger the session, the more there is to manage obviously.

2) Assuming you as main engineer have set up your all the routings correctly, and set up use of Cues etc, then for each performer, control of their own Aux mix is really easy, provided they get given the link and an overview of how to setup their cue mix for what they want to do.

Essentially it works as follows:-

i) Each aux/cue mix get's it's own browser URL
ii) Performer opens up 'their' cue mix on a tablet / fone - in my band i had 2 7" Android tablets that 2 guys used, and the singer brought his own Android tablet
iii) With each performer show em the basics of the cue mix - for a full band session there were usually 14 inputs that could be balanced - 10 drum channels, 2 guide guitars, guide vocals and guide bass. Obviously for foldback, these could be grouped if necesary and condensed down to a smaller number of channels. Our drummer was picky, and wanted complete control of his own drum monitor mix.
iii) what ever changes made are cached on the client device, so if session is over 2 days, it's all good

I wouldn't say my band were luddites, but they not silicon valley alumni either, and there weren't any issues, they were able to manage their own mixes easily enough with a basic overview of the aux mixer. The other bands i've had up didn't have any issues to speak of either, and were very happy with the monitor mixes they were able to pull together.


NB - I have the Monitor 8, and if you don't have that device as part of your AVB setup, then individual cues with 'more-me' won't be as easy to achieve - you will need to use dedicated outputs of your device and route to a headphone amp etc, but AFAIK, all Motu AVB devices have the core Aux / Cue functionality in the DSP mixer.
Old 2nd August 2020 | Show parent
  #4053
Lives for gear
 
gravyface's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave View Post
As noted by Billy Budd, it's not CueMix anymore, but a new web browser based interface.

Regarding it's ease of use, there are 2 separate considerations:-

1) Managing the AVB device itself, routing, setting up mixes etc - there IS a learning curve here, but it's easy enough if you take it slow, and reference the manual and videos. Getting the routing panel nailed and how changes to the device translates to your DAW is critical here. Each device is a 48 channel DSP mixer so the screens can get a bit busy dependening on what you are trying to achieve - the bigger the session, the more there is to manage obviously.

2) Assuming you as main engineer have set up your all the routings correctly, and set up use of Cues etc, then for each performer, control of their own Aux mix is really easy, provided they get given the link and an overview of how to setup their cue mix for what they want to do.

Essentially it works as follows:-

i) Each aux/cue mix get's it's own browser URL
ii) Performer opens up 'their' cue mix on a tablet / fone - in my band i had 2 7" Android tablets that 2 guys used, and the singer brought his own Android tablet
iii) With each performer show em the basics of the cue mix - for a full band session there were usually 14 inputs that could be balanced - 10 drum channels, 2 guide guitars, guide vocals and guide bass. Obviously for foldback, these could be grouped if necesary and condensed down to a smaller number of channels. Our drummer was picky, and wanted complete control of his own drum monitor mix.
iii) what ever changes made are cached on the client device, so if session is over 2 days, it's all good

I wouldn't say my band were luddites, but they not silicon valley alumni either, and there weren't any issues, they were able to manage their own mixes easily enough with a basic overview of the aux mixer. The other bands i've had up didn't have any issues to speak of either, and were very happy with the monitor mixes they were able to pull together.


NB - I have the Monitor 8, and if you don't have that device as part of your AVB setup, then individual cues with 'more-me' won't be as easy to achieve - you will need to use dedicated outputs of your device and route to a headphone amp etc, but AFAIK, all Motu AVB devices have the core Aux / Cue functionality in the DSP mixer.
Right on.

Yeah I have 4 Behringer PowerPlay P1 personal headphone amps. Dual XLR for stereo input, 9V battery or adapter for power and has a mic threading so I have them mounted on straight stands. One of Behringers unheralded products for sure.
Old 5th August 2020 | Show parent
  #4054
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travisvictor View Post
ponzi,

This can be done, but likely not with the cable you found. I've tested a variety of adapters that work well for this. The Apple Type C (Thunderbolt 3) to Thundebolt 2 adapter should work. As should the Startech Thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapter.
i have a new mcbook pro with only 4 usb-c connections. been using a usb-c to usb 2 tree fine, but wanted get a more direct link to the 16A.

I got a USB-c cable to the thunderbolt/minidisplay port connection. motui discovery does not find the thunderbolt connection.

only sees the jimmied usb link..

any thoughts on how to get the usb-c to minidisplay port cable to be recognized and work?
Old 5th August 2020
  #4055
Gear Maniac
 
You need an adapter to go from Tbolt 3 to 2.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207266 Then a Thunderbolt 2 cable.
Old 5th August 2020 | Show parent
  #4056
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKahuna View Post
You need an adapter to go from Tbolt 3 to 2.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207266 Then a Thunderbolt 2 cable.
it says in spec:

"This adapter is not compatible with USB-C ports that don't support Thunderbolt 3, such as USB-C hubs or the USB-C port on MacBook models from 2015 or later."

i've a 2017 touchbar mbp
Old 5th August 2020 | Show parent
  #4057
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbang View Post
it says in spec:

"This adapter is not compatible with USB-C ports that don't support Thunderbolt 3, such as USB-C hubs or the USB-C port on MacBook models from 2015 or later."

i've a 2017 touchbar mbp
So that shouldn't be problem, because the incompatible lineup is MacBook (the weakest ones with single USB-C connector without TB support), you have a MacBook Pro, which has TB.

Michal
Old 10th August 2020 | Show parent
  #4058
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Some things just seem like they're not meant to be, and require heroic effort if they can be made to work at all. My 828es works great with usb 2. It may be that I need super low latency to record singing, but I have not tried that yet. I think guitar can handle 20ms latency no prob as that is like being 10 feet in front of the amp. Thunderbolt on a pc is another heroic effort type thing and I will not do it as long as usb works.

Next gen of motu will have usb c or 3 or whatver all names this has been given. I will be interested how those work. I think the 828 could do the job more than 10 yrs as it does such a good job.
Yes, I'll take stability over latency any day anyways. But, I don't have a need for monitoring through the DAW since I have a console. Also, using the routing in the Motu software allows you to have very low latency within the unit and send it out wherever you want.
Old 11th August 2020 | Show parent
  #4059
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by evoltap View Post
Yes, I'll take stability over latency any day anyways. But, I don't have a need for monitoring through the DAW since I have a console. Also, using the routing in the Motu software allows you to have very low latency within the unit and send it out wherever you want.
I am trying a setup with a digital recorder instead of using a separate computer plus DAW to recird. I can monitor at the 8pre-es headphone at low latenfy and not worry anymore about what is happening on the Mac unless I need to create a muktitrack recording for some reason which is seldom at the moment.
Old 15th August 2020
  #4060
Here for the gear
Guys 2x question about AVB ultralite.

1. Are there on internet any presets to find for the motu mixer for the EQ/ Reverb etc.. I mean a complete voice presets, guitar presets etc..

2. AVB have ADAT in/out. Can i connect another audio interface on another machine together to get the sound signal? Such as on Motu route From Computer 1-2 to ADAT 1 output. On the another machine ADAT 1 in? Should that be work?
Old 15th August 2020 | Show parent
  #4061
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by seirsoba13 View Post
Guys 2x question about AVB ultralite.

1. Are there on internet any presets to find for the motu mixer for the EQ/ Reverb etc.. I mean a complete voice presets, guitar presets etc..

2. AVB have ADAT in/out. Can i connect another audio interface on another machine together to get the sound signal? Such as on Motu route From Computer 1-2 to ADAT 1 output. On the another machine ADAT 1 in? Should that be work?
I have my pc feeding ADAT audio through the PCIE audio interface a ADAT out, into my Motu AVB interface. Works fine.
Old 15th August 2020 | Show parent
  #4062
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by gminorcoles View Post
I have my pc feeding ADAT audio through the PCIE audio interface a ADAT out, into my Motu AVB interface. Works fine.
And do you experince any latency or is it in your situation only to play music?
Old 15th August 2020 | Show parent
  #4063
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by seirsoba13 View Post
And do you experince any latency or is it in your situation only to play music?
I am mostly monitoring directly from my 8pre-es and my music is generated by a combination of my playing a synth or midi sequences. My DAW runs in a pretty fast PC and sequenced MidI comes out through An RME pcie interface.

I run my DAW at 32 samples so I am getting pretty low latency.

I don’t really perceive any latency when i play or in the sequencing. I record in a different place than my DAW, either another DAW or a digital recorder. I don’t monitor through the recording device,so what I hear is from the monitor, and i simply trust that what is recorded is pretty close to what I hear. Which is true, since it’s all digital. If the monitored mix sounds good, the recording will.

I am not good at this engineering stuff, I just cobbled it together, like buying wine, spend as much as I can afford and trial and errors.
Old 16th August 2020
  #4064
Lives for gear
 
Has anyone compared the little 8A to the 1248? I'm currently using the latter and am happy, but will need something more portable in the near future.

I believe the converters are the same, and I am just using line inputs rather than the built-in pres, so are there are any hidden compromises under the hood in the smaller one? How is the headphone amp?
Old 16th August 2020 | Show parent
  #4065
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by gminorcoles View Post
I am mostly monitoring directly from my 8pre-es and my music is generated by a combination of my playing a synth or midi sequences. My DAW runs in a pretty fast PC and sequenced MidI comes out through An RME pcie interface.

I run my DAW at 32 samples so I am getting pretty low latency.

I don’t really perceive any latency when i play or in the sequencing. I record in a different place than my DAW, either another DAW or a digital recorder. I don’t monitor through the recording device,so what I hear is from the monitor, and i simply trust that what is recorded is pretty close to what I hear. Which is true, since it’s all digital. If the monitored mix sounds good, the recording will.

I am not good at this engineering stuff, I just cobbled it together, like buying wine, spend as much as I can afford and trial and errors.
Tested!! I get really zero latancy... so happy as a crying child after getting some Car gadget... ADAT out from Motu and then ADAT in to motu. Thank you for your advice.
Old 16th August 2020
  #4066
Here for the gear
I have Ultralite AVB with just 1x phone output.

My second phone is on analog out 1-2

My target is:

1. Listen the phones together to hear same Mix.
2. Get the sound to the 2 different Speakers to compare mix. In this case Main Output and Analog Out 3-4
3. Listen the track coming out from DAW with EQ's enabled in Motu and without EQ.

What should be the best routing for that, should i use groups for that also? The second phone which is on the Analog out 1-2 give me what problems on my target i thing.
Old 27th September 2020 | Show parent
  #4067
Here for the gear
 
Are there any new developments on the horizon in connecting avb to a Mac via ethernet cable?
I know it's been unstable with recent releases of macOS.
Thank you!
Old 30th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4068
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by infindebula View Post
@ Monkey Man et al, Ethernet AVB latency on computers is of great interest to me - you’re saying around 8 ms but I’m wondering if anyone has done any real-world tests lately, like on Catalina.
I'm about to do so.

Have an 828es and an Audient ASP800 on the way. I have 2 DAWs both sharing an iConnectivity interface so they lock via MTC and MMC quite tightly. Been sending audio from the second to the first (mostly 2 channel for VI playback) via its 828mk2 -> ADAT -> Apogee Element 88. But the Element is not that great and Sweetwater swapped it out for me.

I plan on doing AVB between the two DAWs with the 828es. I'll also have them joined via ADAT as well. As a third test I will be doing Logic's AUnetSend and receive between DAWs.

I have a Netgear GS48Tv5 network switch and just ordered the AVB license for it. Hopefully it will do the trick without needing to get a MOTU switch.
Old 30th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4069
Here for the gear
 
Oh man I have the same horrible distortion. Did you get rid of it? Was it clock-sync related? I don’t understand that stuff at all, how do I set master and slave on them if that’s what I need to do?

Really hope you can help me, the motu’s are great I think except for this horrible distortion.
I have a 16A and 828es connected over AVB.
Thanks!
Old 30th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4070
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ModularOverkill View Post
I finally have my system all setup (1248, 24ai, 16A) and it's definitely...cumbersome? Managing all the different inputs/outputs while constantly clicking back and forth (with associated latency to get the screen state) isn't terribly ergonomic.

However, my bigger issue is that right now I'm getting intermittent high pitched squealing/distortion -- it comes and goes, and I'm having a hard time isolating it. It's not limited to a specific instrument, so I'm wondering if it's either my patchbays (Switchcraft) or if there might be something else going on that would allow for intermittent squeals/distortion to sneak through? This is with a 100% dry synth patch playing into my 24Ai then using AVB to send it to the 1248 which in turn has Focal monitors attached.

I have all three devices to clocking internally -- should I be setting one as the clock master instead? The docs sort of indicated that this wasn't necessary, but upon rebooting I found that one of the devices set itself to 44.1 vs. 48 on the others and I was getting horrific distortion.
Oh man I have the same horrible distortion. Did you get rid of it? Was it clock-sync related? I don’t understand that stuff at all, how do I set master and slave on them if that’s what I need to do?

Really hope you can help me, the motu’s are great I think except for this horrible distortion.
I have a 16A and 828es connected over AVB.
Thanks!
Old 30th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4071
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trifonius View Post
Oh man I have the same horrible distortion. Did you get rid of it? Was it clock-sync related? I don’t understand that stuff at all, how do I set master and slave on them if that’s what I need to do?

Really hope you can help me, the motu’s are great I think except for this horrible distortion.
I have a 16A and 828es connected over AVB.
Thanks!
Can you post an audio example? I've had various stuff like that over the years. Sometimes its intermodal ground loop stuff between connected devices. Noise from the data streams in devices, like Thunderbolt, USB, FIreWire, MIDI. Had it with an Apogee Duet 2 breakout box but not the breakout cable. Think it was due to poor shielding in the breakout box cable. Picked up PCM like chatter from the electronics in the vicinity.

Last edited by trakzero; 30th October 2020 at 03:01 PM.. Reason: I suck at typing.
Old 13th December 2020
  #4072
Gear Addict
 
hi guys, I'm enjoying trying out a new set of motu interface but the dreaded routing matrix is even worse than I imagined, it makes no intuitive sense at all.

can someone tell me how to route, let's say, an instrument on input 1 to a processor, let's say a compressor, on ins/outs 15/16? no daw involved, just for monitoring? if I use the daw, it's easy enough, but without it?

is the only way to do this with the 7 aux sends of the interface's mixer? is there some way to route any given analog in to any given analog out (and then back in) in the grid that I can't seem to quite figure out?

this simple task is much, much easier on literally any other interface on the market.
Old 13th December 2020 | Show parent
  #4073
Gear Head
Can you post a screenshot of your routing with some lines drawn to show how you’d like it to be? Commenting against that would help out others too.
Old 13th December 2020
  #4074
Gear Addict
 
if I knew how to route it, I wouldn't be asking!

I just want to apply external processors to instruments, and monitor it. so let's say that instruments are coming on any given set of inputs, call them 1-16, and processors in/out on the next bank, 16-32. how do I route any given instrument to any given processor, like on an analog patchbay?

I would have imagined you'd just be able to place a tile at the intersections of those connections, in a simple routing matrix, to establish that patch, but that doesn't work at all. I have no idea how to accomplish this in motu's grid, and so a picture would be useless. It should be as easy as patching instrument X to processor Y, and processor Y back to the monitor path, which is what I'd like to do, but it isn't, unless I'm missing something.

This task, using the interface as a (digital) patchbay, is pretty easy even on Antelope's software, which is saying something, because it's not exactly...great. On most of the rest it's a piece of cake. I'm baffled as to why this routing grid was made so confusing.
Old 13th December 2020 | Show parent
  #4075
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by neonrider View Post
hi guys, I'm enjoying trying out a new set of motu interface but the dreaded routing matrix is even worse than I imagined, it makes no intuitive sense at all.
It’s intimidating and not entirely self-explanatory, but I found that once I had taken a little time to understand what it’s for? It suddenly snapped into focus and I’ve learned to appreciate just how incredibly powerful and flexible it is.

The key takeaways for me were:

1) “Inputs” and “Outputs” aren’t the best descriptive terms. They’re really “Sources” across the top, only some of which are physical inputs, and “Destinations” along the side, only some of which are physical outputs.

2) Each source can be routed to any number of destinations, but a destination can only be connected to one source.

3) If you want to mix signals you have to route those sources to the mixer, and then route a mixer output (which is a source!) to wherever you want the mixed signal to go. This means that most signals go through the matrix two or more times.

Quote:
can someone tell me how to route, let's say, an instrument on input 1 to a processor, let's say a compressor, on ins/outs 15/16? no daw involved, just for monitoring? if I use the daw, it's easy enough, but without it?
You can do this by clicking in the intersection between Input 1 and Output 15, which routes the signal directly to the compressor, and then again at the intersection of the compressor return, say from Input 15 to one of the mixer inputs, maybe Mix In 1.

Quote:
is the only way to do this with the 7 aux sends of the interface's mixer?
It’s not the only way, as noted above, but using the Aux busses gives you a lot more flexibility - panning mono signals in stereo sends, mixing multiple inputs to share one send, applying EQ or level changes to the input before the send, etc.
Old 13th December 2020 | Show parent
  #4076
Gear Head
For analog effect insert, you’d need a PAIR of tiles:
- SEND: I1-to-O1: physical analog in routed to a physical analog out to your effect
- RETURN: I2-to-m.O1 or c.O1: effected input to a motu mixer channel or straight to computer DAW so you can hear it.

Otherwise, you’d just use a SINGLE tile
- I1-to-m.O1 or c.O1

Last edited by vromr; 13th December 2020 at 07:45 PM.. Reason: Clarity
Old 13th December 2020 | Show parent
  #4077
Gear Addict
 
thanks, I think that should solve it.

I still think these arbitrary rules (source to n destinations, destinations to only 1 source, sources and destinations not really those) make this WAY more confusing than it has to be.

the interface sounds very very good, better than I expected, but the routing and mixer are just way way behind the competition. they may be "flexible" but they just seem to get in the way of most tasks you'd need to accomplish quickly.
Old 13th December 2020 | Show parent
  #4078
Gear Head
Agreed. They need to Piet Mondrian-ize that matrix. Symbolicate & color matrix regions.
Old 14th December 2020
  #4079
Here for the gear
 
TimRideout's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I have found that every company has their own take on the MATRIX concept - and I prefer MOTU's to (for example) RME's. What helped me a great deal was watching the videos at the bottom of this page:

https://motu.com/proaudio/index.html
Old 14th December 2020 | Show parent
  #4080
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by neonrider View Post
I still think these arbitrary rules (source to n destinations, destinations to only 1 source, sources and destinations not really those) make this WAY more confusing than it has to be.
There will always be limitations and rules defining how a piece of gear works, but I get that these feel unintuitive here. From a computational point of view they make sense, and indeed as soon as you have two sources for one output it really is rational that you need to provide some control over how they are mixed - and the extensive mixer controls do a good job of exactly that.
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