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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 5th August 2018
  #3601
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gradivus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Guts of a 1248 for those interested in such things:

1248 — imgbb.com
Cool.

Anyone ever get one modded by Black Lion? Would be nice to hear some files to compare. I did some searches but came up with nothing.

I saw your other post about it. If there was any difference it could make some sense for those not wanting to head to the ~$3k realm of an RME interface and others—IF there was a significant difference that warranted the $750 price tag.

P.S. Those are some tiny ass surface mount caps near the analog I/O as you mentioned (if I'm seeing correctly through the blur). Someone skilled could swap them out using a hot air station but not sure of the tech as to what change it would have and what caps they would use.
Old 5th August 2018
  #3602
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gradivus View Post
Cool.

Anyone ever get one modded by Black Lion? Would be nice to hear some files to compare. I did some searches but came up with nothing.

I saw your other post about it. If there was any difference it could make some sense for those not wanting to head to the ~$3k realm of an RME interface and others—IF there was a significant difference that warranted the $750 price tag.

P.S. Those are some tiny ass surface mount caps near the analog I/O as you mentioned (if I'm seeing correctly through the blur). Someone skilled could swap them out using a hot air station but not sure of the tech as to what change it would have and what caps they would use.
I haven't made any comments about black lion mods. I am happy with this unit I got used--not gonna double my investment on the off chance that replacing a bunch of parts is going to be a big improvement over the motu engineering.

But, sure, if someone has something to report, I will read with interest.
Old 5th August 2018
  #3603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
I haven't made any comments about black lion mods. I am happy with this unit I got used--not gonna double my investment on the off chance that replacing a bunch of parts is going to be a big improvement over the motu engineering.

But, sure, if someone has something to report, I will read with interest.
Not you?

MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface
Old 5th August 2018
  #3604
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Given the awesome spec's of the 1248 and 16A's analogue performance, I doubt there'd be much improvement, and if there was, it'd surely be practically-imperceptible at best considering where it's already at.
Old 5th August 2018
  #3605
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gradivus View Post
I forgot about those remarks from last year. Looks like my opinion has not changed, though. Not going to mod my motu.
Old 5th August 2018
  #3606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
I forgot about those remarks from last year. Looks like my opinion has not changed, though. Not going to mod my motu.
Good decision.
Old 6th August 2018
  #3607
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCMarkus View Post
TS connected at unbalanced end.

TRS at MOTU output end with ring floated.

You can simply use TRS cables (TRS at both ends) to accomplish the same thing. At the unbalanced jack, no contact will be made with the ring, essentially floating the ring conductor at both ends. Whether that opens up potential for RF interference is another question.

Think about how a TS 1/4" jack contacts a TS or TRS plug (no difference) then how a TRS jack contacts a TS or TRS plug.. big difference! When TS plug is inserted in a TRS jack, the sleeve shorts the ring and sleeve contacts. By using a TRS plug with floated ring, this is avoided.

Sound System Interconnection
If I understand right - I believe I disagree.

TRS plug in unbalanced jack will very likely short the ring to ground. The receiving jacks sleeve is all ground. Its not for certain but I'd wager 98% chance.

PS - of course this only matters if the output is Driven Balanced - impedance balanced outputs can ground the ring with no loss of signal to the receiver unit. The 1248 spec says "Balanced - DC coupled" which doesn't make it clear what type of balanced output it is.

Last edited by ProPower; 6th August 2018 at 06:23 AM..
Old 6th August 2018
  #3608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
I forgot about those remarks from last year. Looks like my opinion has not changed, though. Not going to mod my motu.
Wouldn't be my first choice either. Just curious.

I'm leaning toward a 1248 for my new interface based on the price, features and I/O. Has anyone here done any RTL tests with the 1248 on Mac? I'll be using it with High Sierra over TB3.

If not, TAFKAT posted a 64-bit OS X RTL utility recently. If anyone has the time to do RTL tests, it would be appreciated. Others have only tested the smaller models. Lynx, RME and Presounus Quantum seem to be the lowest that were tested (I didn't see any tests for Lynx Aurora (n) but that's beyond my budget anyway).

I need low latency for all the VIs I use. Hoping a new iMac Pro with a 1248 & DP can handle a decent amount of VIs at 24/96, 64 buffer with some plug-ins running. I may also transition to VEP to lighten the CPU load.
Old 6th August 2018
  #3609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower View Post
If I understand right - I believe I disagree.

TRS plug in unbalanced jack will very likely short the ring to ground. The receiving jacks sleeve is all ground. Its not for certain but I'd wager 98% chance.

PS - of course this only matters if the output is Driven Balanced - impedance balanced outputs can ground the ring with no loss of signal to the receiver unit. The 1248 spec says "Balanced - DC coupled" which doesn't make it clear what type of balanced output it is.
I'm gonna contact MOTU about this and see what they say.
Old 6th August 2018
  #3610
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower View Post
If I understand right - I believe I disagree.

TRS plug in unbalanced jack will very likely short the ring to ground. The receiving jacks sleeve is all ground. Its not for certain but I'd wager 98% chance.
Take a look at a TS 1/4" jack that is not installed in a piece of gear, note how a TRS plug mates with that jack and let me know if you change your mind.

The TRS ring will short only momentarily, while the plug is being inserted into the TS jack. The TRS ring lies out of reach of the TS jack sleeve when the plug is fully inserted. Although theoretically possible, I have never seen a TS jack with a sleeve long enough to short the ring. Love to see a photo of such a jack if anyone has run into this.
Old 6th August 2018
  #3611
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Correct weight I believe, Sir Markus.
Old 7th August 2018
  #3612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCMarkus View Post
Take a look at a TS 1/4" jack that is not installed in a piece of gear, note how a TRS plug mates with that jack and let me know if you change your mind.

The TRS ring will short only momentarily, while the plug is being inserted into the TS jack. The TRS ring lies out of reach of the TS jack sleeve when the plug is fully inserted. Although theoretically possible, I have never seen a TS jack with a sleeve long enough to short the ring. Love to see a photo of such a jack if anyone has run into this.
Heard back from MOTU:

Quote:
When connecting the 1248's balanced outputs to an unbalanced input, you'll want to use a TRS --> TRS cable with the ring floated on the unbalanced end.
I asked about other connectors such as RCA but they didn't answer. Guessing the wire connecting to the ring just never gets connected on the other side.
Old 7th August 2018
  #3613
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by studioman22 View Post
Looking at a MOTU 24Ao- primarily for breakout back to my Midas Venice F32 for OTB summing. Also looking at an Orion 32. What I am wondering is, considering this is just for OTB mixing, is the difference in sound and conversion quality between the two for this application worth the extra $2k+?

Would be nice to have the Orion 32 of course, gives me the full 32 outs back to the board, instead of 24, but 24 will suit my needs fine I think (capturing master outs on the board with separate system). IF the sound is SO much better with the Orion 32, I might still do it, but from what I am reading in this thread and the recordings posted, seems like I might be fine with the 24 Ao, and save a wad of cash. My recordings are mostly rock and fusion stuff, all real drums, bigger kit, about 14 inputs. Real happy with the Venice F32 to computer chain for tracking at 44.1/48 Khz.

Now why would I bother when I got all 32 back to the board already via the Midas FW interface? Because I wanna be able to push those inputs more is really why. More analog mojo on mix, basically. Sort of an experiment, but so happy with the analog mojo from this board already, can't help myself. If it seems excessive, then i might not. So go ahead, talk me out of it. I am always open to saving some $1.5k, with the DB25 cables and all I will need for the upgrade.
I have a 24ao that was feeding a dangerous 2bus lt and is now feeding a soundcraft delta. I think the DA is good enough for summing (there are better, but if everything is spread out it might not be noticable). What is more important here IMO is the AD conversion. I capture the mix with a BLA White Sparrow which is very transparent. Here is an old mix I made sending stems out via the 24ao (keep in mind the mastering engineer changed the tone quite a bit and im not super happy with the high frequencies)

YouTube
Old 10th August 2018
  #3614
Gear Nut
 
wilkinsi's Avatar
Not actually tried this yet. I assumed it wasn't possible. If I have an effect processor in inputs 1 & 2 and outputs 1 & 2 on my 828es, appropriately routed so I can use that effect in the hardware insert plugin, can I use an identical hardware insert plugin in another channel and assign the same input and output channels, thus use the same external effect?
Old 10th August 2018
  #3615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkinsi View Post
Not actually tried this yet. I assumed it wasn't possible. If I have an effect processor in inputs 1 & 2 and outputs 1 & 2 on my 828es, appropriately routed so I can use that effect in the hardware insert plugin, can I use an identical hardware insert plugin in another channel and assign the same input and output channels, thus use the same external effect?
I'm not all that clear on how you have things configured now, but you can definitely set up an effects bus that multiple inputs can share. Either an Aux or Group bus can be used for the purpose, giving every input channel its own independent level for the bus which is then routed to the outputs you use as the send. The inputs carrying the return can in turn be sent to any desired mix, typically the main mix, but the exact routing is up to you.
Old 13th August 2018
  #3616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy View Post
Windows 1803 and MOTU Ultralite AVB. Anyone having problems with the 1803 update to Windows 10 Professional? My box updated the other day and ever since I have been getting intermittent, weird distortion from the MOTU. It sounds like too low a buffer setting but using higher buffer/safety buffer settings doesn't help. Nothing else in my system has changed. Unplugging and re-plugging the USB cable or POR the unit fixes the problem until it happens the next time. This is just playing Youtube, streaming Amazon Prime music or playing local files. I haven't been recording lately so I don't know if ASIO is also effected.
I am at the latest firmware and driver levels for the MOTU.

I reverted back to the 1709 version and all has been well for a day so something is sick with the 1803, my system and MOTU.

Anyone else?
So I did a little experimentation this past weekend. I removed the MOTU drivers completely and then downloaded and installed the 1803 update and all was well for about a day or so. No distortion, buzzing etc as mentioned above.

So I checked the "Power Management" settings for the USB Root Hubs and like the previous time, they were set to "Allow This Computer To Manage Power etc".
So I unchecked all the boxes once again and proceeded to test.

Within one hour the intermittant distortion was back again!
So the problem is related to USB port power management.
BTW, I had this turned off in the 1709 version with no troubles. I'm also running "High Power Scheme" with nothing suspending. Same as 1709.

So.... to further test, I enabled the "Power Management" for the USB Root Hubs and I have not had a problem since.

Conclusion: At least on my box, The USB Power Management disabled causes problems with my MOTU Ultralite AVB. I will continue to test and report back.
Old 14th August 2018
  #3617
Quote:
Originally Posted by gradivus View Post
heard back from motu: I asked about other connectors such as rca but they didn't answer. Guessing the wire connecting to the ring just never gets connected on the other side.
You should be able to use a standard TRS>TRS cable to connect the MOTU outputs to unbalanced gear.* As noted above, unless your unbalanced equipment has an unusually configured TS jack (I've never seen such a jack), the ring will float (not be connected to anything) on the unbalanced end. If you float (don't connect) the TRS ring on the balanced end of a custom cable, you can use TS plug on the other end to connect unbalanced equipment. Same for RCA, as RCA = TS

*channel insert (send/receive TRS) jacks are an exception. Use a TRS>TRS custom cable. The TRS end connected to the MOTU output is wired Tip and Sleeve only, with the Tip connected to the Ring on the TRS plug to be connected to the insert jack. The Sleeves on either end are connected. Float the Ring on the MOTU end and the Tip on the Insert end.

Last edited by HCMarkus; 14th August 2018 at 01:18 PM.. Reason: added info on Send/Receive Jack Connection
Old 14th August 2018
  #3618
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8thwave's Avatar
 

I’m a long-time user of the 1248, however, I haven’t needed to use an adat in/out before.

I’m considering getting one or two 8x input Mic Pre’s which I imagined I’d hook up via the adat connector and sync via wordclock.

However, I have heard that the adat port can carry it’s own sync signal, so what method would you suggest for sync given that I may be using 16x inputs at 44.1?

Thanks for any advice…
Old 14th August 2018
  #3619
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gradivus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8thwave View Post
I’m a long-time user of the 1248, however, I haven’t needed to use an adat in/out before.

I’m considering getting one or two 8x input Mic Pre’s which I imagined I’d hook up via the adat connector and sync via wordclock.

However, I have heard that the adat port can carry it’s own sync signal, so what method would you suggest for sync given that I may be using 16x inputs at 44.1?

Thanks for any advice…
From what I got from MOTU, if they are all AVB interfaces you can connect 2 over the ethernet port, 3 or more you'd need to use a hub.

Without AVB I think you'd use optical. Others who do this can speak toward clocking aspect.
Old 14th August 2018
  #3620
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8thwave View Post
I’m a long-time user of the 1248, however, I haven’t needed to use an adat in/out before.

I’m considering getting one or two 8x input Mic Pre’s which I imagined I’d hook up via the adat connector and sync via wordclock.

However, I have heard that the adat port can carry it’s own sync signal, so what method would you suggest for sync given that I may be using 16x inputs at 44.1?

Thanks for any advice…
I'm pretty sure the ADAT can carry word clock? you can set ADAT for the clock source
Old 14th August 2018
  #3621
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Well, I've confirmed with Christoph Kemper himself that a hardware limitation means that the unit will never be able to be updated to slave to clock. Sending S/PDIF to a 1248 won't be a problem, but receiving it therefrom would require manual switching of the source for the AVB setup every time I switch the Kemper on and again upon power-down.

Now that I know this after creating a thread at the Kemper forum, the question remains, therefore, as to why I can't set a 1248 to slave to S/PDIF clock and have it revert to internal sync whenever the source is powered down and resume syncing to the source when it's switched back on. IOW, revert to internal clocking when signal fails to appear, and re-sync to it when it reappears.

Most other interfaces work this way, even el-cheapo ones. I'd like MOTU to inform us as to whether it will implement this behaviour in a FW update as it's central to my decision between a 1248 and 16A as the primary interface in an AVB setup.

Please, MOTU, tell me something; I'd very-much appreciate this.
Old 15th August 2018
  #3622
tft
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8thwave View Post
I’m a long-time user of the 1248, however, I haven’t needed to use an adat in/out before.

I’m considering getting one or two 8x input Mic Pre’s which I imagined I’d hook up via the adat connector and sync via wordclock.

However, I have heard that the adat port can carry it’s own sync signal, so what method would you suggest for sync given that I may be using 16x inputs at 44.1?

Thanks for any advice…
i am using an rme interface (fireface uc) into a motu 112D (and vice versa) via adat optical. the clock-sync is done via the optical connection, the rme is slaved to the motu.
in the rme interfaces settings-dialog, i have set the clocksource to "optical in".

this works reliable and stable, no dropout or sync-issues.
the motu device can be set to internal or clocked from another outside-source, the rme just follows along.

as you want to add a mic pre for additional inputs, it will probably only have optical-out, which means, you have to slave the motu to the micpre via adat in. this should work, but i would try with the device you have in mind and get a deal, where you can send it back, if it fails.
the other option would be to get a device that also has optical in and allows for clock-sync via optical in.

Edit 1:
when your mic pre only has optical out, it would be good if it had wordclock in (/out). this way you've got the option of clocking it from the motu. you can try both ways then and see what works best for you.
Old 15th August 2018
  #3623
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellofishy View Post
I'm pretty sure the ADAT can carry word clock? you can set ADAT for the clock source
Yes, but I prefer the Wordclock connection whenever possible. Bob Katz has advised signal can interfere with clock signal traveling on the same connection, and therefore word clock cable is superior for carrying sync. Truth or Myth? Regardless, I've always used Wordclock, and it works perfectly.
Old 15th August 2018
  #3624
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCMarkus View Post
Yes, but I prefer the Wordclock connection whenever possible. Bob Katz has advised signal can interfere with clock signal traveling on the same connection, and therefore word clock cable is superior for carrying sync. Truth or Myth? Regardless, I've always used Wordclock, and it works perfectly.
In that case you can clock the Motu to one of the external pres with a word clock cable. And then using the Moto word clock output (set to thru) you can pass that signal along via word clock cable to the other external preamps
Old 15th August 2018
  #3625
Gear Head
 
8thwave's Avatar
 

Thanks guys - I'll post my final setup when I'm everything is all connected and working...
Old 18th August 2018
  #3626
Gear Maniac
Anybody else having issues with their interfaces on the newest 2018 macbook pros? Connected per USB and I get digital noise for like 10 seconds every 30-60 minutes or so. Pain in the ass. I have a 8M and an Ultralite AVB. Bought a thunderbolt adapter today and will try if the problem persists, but for the ultralite AVB thunderbolt is no option and that's the interface I'm using live.
Old 18th August 2018
  #3627
Gear Head
 

10Gb AVB Ethernet for MacPro! Finally!

Something we have been waiting for years has finally arrived:
10Gb AVB ethernet PCIE-card for a MacPro.

As we are using the Motu's @ 192kHz, we are limited by 64-channels per 1Gb ethernet connection. For many applications this may not be a problem, but we are running outside broadcast recordings that far exceed the limit (we are running productions up to 192-channels). Adding multiple (Sonnet) 1Gb interfaces kinda works, but is cumbersome in configuration and setup.

I was already very happy when (years ago) we found the Sonnet 1Gb-AVB-ethernet card, that is natively supported by OSX. But finding a OSX supported 10Gb-AVB was a no go, as AVB support was very limited in available 10Gb interface cards and OSX does not support them.
We became hopeful that there was 'light at the end of the tunnel' when the iMac-Pro was released with a 10Gb interface (that supports AVB). The first native 10Gb ethernet interface in a Mac..! (its about time..)
When Sonnet released their 'Solo 10G Thunderbolt-3 edition' (that carries the same ethernet chipset as the iMac-Pro) we prayed that they would release an PCIE edition as well. Emails to Sonnet returned initial vague answers.
But here it is :
Solo10G PCIe Card | Sonnet
It is natively supported from macOS 10.13.4, plug and play.

I orded 2 cards today and will report back on our testing. We will be using an Extreme Networks X620-16t as a 10Gb-AVB-switch and 2x MacPro-5.1/[email protected]
MacPro's will live on!
Old 18th August 2018
  #3628
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loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirky View Post
Anybody else having issues with their interfaces on the newest 2018 macbook pros? Connected per USB and I get digital noise for like 10 seconds every 30-60 minutes or so. Pain in the ass. I have a 8M and an Ultralite AVB. Bought a thunderbolt adapter today and will try if the problem persists, but for the ultralite AVB thunderbolt is no option and that's the interface I'm using live.
I'm on Windows 10 x64 1803 but I noticed if I run 64/64 rather than 64/16 I get bursts of digital noise as well.
Something is funky here.

I have an Ultralite AVB via USB.
Old 19th August 2018
  #3629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balijon View Post
As we are using the Motu's @ 192kHz, we are limited by 64-channels per 1Gb ethernet connection.
Would 96kHz therefore mean a max of 128 simultaneous I/O channels, balijon?

I don't plan to go that high SR-wise, but it'd be good-to-know. IIRC you told me a while back that at "regular, 1x" rates such as 44.1 and 48kHz, you weren't sure what the simultaneous-I/O-channel limit would be with the 1Gb card.

Any thoughts appreciated, mate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by balijon View Post
I orded 2 cards today and will report back on our testing... MacPro's will live on!
Thank you, mate. I take it they'll work with MOTU's "switch box" as well?
Old 19th August 2018
  #3630
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Thank you, mate. I take it they'll work with MOTU's "switch box" as well?
AVB support is prominently described for the product, so it would seem so. It would be overkill for that particular use since the MotU AVB Switch only supports gigabit speeds, but presuming you’re occasionally connecting the port to other destinations it should work fine. Experimental confirmation would be welcome.
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