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MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 6th May 2018
  #3481
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
The technical design of the system should guarantee very low added latency over AVB: “Low, fixed network latency. Standard AVB network latency is fixed at 2 ms. MOTU AVB network latency is an astonishing 0.625 ms (fixed), even over 7 ‘hops’ (switches) and hundreds of meters of cable. That's only 30 samples when the system is operating at 48 kHz.”

Unlike a round trip through your computer, there’s no extra driver overhead or other operating system variance.
Old 6th May 2018
  #3482
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
The technical design of the system should guarantee very low added latency over AVB: “Low, fixed network latency. Standard AVB network latency is fixed at 2 ms. MOTU AVB network latency is an astonishing 0.625 ms (fixed), even over 7 ‘hops’ (switches) and hundreds of meters of cable. That's only 30 samples when the system is operating at 48 kHz.”

Unlike a round trip through your computer, there’s no extra driver overhead or other operating system variance.
thanks, I read the manual but the info is not there if my memory is working. it was written something like "negligible latency" or something like that. thanks
Old 6th May 2018
  #3483
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaeltn86 View Post
how much of added latency are u getting when u connect the 2nd avb unit through CAT5/CAT6 cable? are u running it stable? how do you like it?

Currently I'm using a Motu 1248 and a Motu 828X via 2 thunderbolt ports. I'm considering replacing my 828x for another 1248, to use only 1 thunderbolt port and connect them via CAT5/CAT6.

if other users can share experience I would be very grateful. thanks!
As Lady Gaia said it's extremely low latency over AVB / back to back cables.. I've had far more issues with firmware / USB drivers than anything else.
Old 9th May 2018
  #3484
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
Well I finally updated the FW / Drivers as my audio interface mixer is falling to pieces (not having much luck lately) and it seems ok, it did BSOD my machine and searching around I'm not the only one.. Which is quite an achievement as I use this machine for dev'ing and constantly run it through the ringer and this is the first time it's ever happened.

Not been able to consistantly get it under 128 samples without a slurry of ASIO errors, would of run the oblique RTL tester on it but it just crashes when I select the MOTU.. (yes I know this is nothing to do with the interface, it's just an app)..

Not sure about it's reliability ultimatley but I've booked some time in to record and I just need to get on with it at this point.. RME or Lynx could be in the near future though..
Old 22nd May 2018
  #3485
Hello. I'm considering buying the 8a for my mobile rig, but would like to use it in the studio in stand alone mode via adat, and use it to connect to hardware signal processors for hybrid mixing. I know sometimes certain interfaces are calibrated a different way, or have some driver limitations... would there be any issue in doing this with the 8a? I might also go for the 828es since the prices are quite similar ( and lose the small form factor that would be cool for mobile ).

Also, curious if anyone is using the Motu 828es with the 8a or 624 via AVB in the studio, and how it's working out?

thanks
Old 24th May 2018
  #3486
Gear Nut
 
wilkinsi's Avatar
I sync my 8D to my 112D via AVB without any issues. Only the 112D is connected to the Macbook via Thunderbolt. I'm gonna add an 828es and AVB Switch. I also have 2 hard disk recorders. Everything needs to be sync'd. I'm hoping I can still sync all the MOTU gear via AVB and have one of those send Wordclock to the two hard disk recorders in series (the first recorder has a WC THRU port as well as in and out, whereas the last recorder only has Wordclock In).
Old 25th May 2018
  #3487
Gear Maniac
 

What kind of motherboard should I buy to use thunderbolt with these interfaces in windows?

I don´t know anything about thunderbolt...is a mother with usb-c and a thunderbolt2 adapter a solid choice?
Old 25th May 2018
  #3488
Gear Nut
 
wilkinsi's Avatar
Whilst I appreciate its not a MOTU Product, will my MOTU interfaces work with a Presonus SW5E AVB Switch? I can't get hold of a MOTU AVB Switch in the UK.
Old 25th May 2018
  #3489
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkinsi View Post
Whilst I appreciate its not a MOTU Product, will my MOTU interfaces work with a Presonus SW5E AVB Switch? I can't get hold of a MOTU AVB Switch in the UK.
AVB is an IEEE standard, just like Ethernet itself. It is designed for interoperability, so any AVB compliant switch is intended to work. It’s also a relatively recent specification so there’s always a possibility that someone will have an imperfect implementation of the spec, but if that’s the case you should certainly be able to return their product.
Old 25th May 2018
  #3490
Gear Nut
 
wilkinsi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
AVB is an IEEE standard, just like Ethernet itself. It is designed for interoperability, so any AVB compliant switch is intended to work. It’s also a relatively recent specification so there’s always a possibility that someone will have an imperfect implementation of the spec, but if that’s the case you should certainly be able to return their product.
Thanks, I will ask the dealer about returns.
Old 5th June 2018
  #3491
Gear Nut
 
wilkinsi's Avatar
My MOTU AVB Switch keeps moving about and my 8D is only attached by one rack ear. I don't have any other half rack gear.

Does anybody here use an AVB Switch and/or half rack MOTU interface, and been able to secure them to a rack tray? Which tray did you use? Web link please!
Old 5th June 2018
  #3492
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkinsi View Post
My MOTU AVB Switch keeps moving about and my 8D is only attached by one rack ear. I don't have any other half rack gear.

Does anybody here use an AVB Switch and/or half rack MOTU interface, and been able to secure them to a rack tray? Which tray did you use? Web link please!
Maybe something like this?

Clamping Rack Shelves - Full Compass

Have you checked to see if MOTU offers ears for their half rack stuff? Many do.
Old 5th June 2018
  #3493
Gear Nut
 
wilkinsi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
Maybe something like this?

Clamping Rack Shelves - Full Compass

Have you checked to see if MOTU offers ears for their half rack stuff? Many do.
The 8D comes with detachable rack ears, but its the only half rack device I have. The AVB Switch is too small. If was the same size, I could've racked them together.
Old 5th June 2018
  #3494
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkinsi View Post
The 8D comes with detachable rack ears, but its the only half rack device I have. The AVB Switch is too small. If was the same size, I could've racked them together.
I thought maybe they'd offer ears for a full rack setup as an accessory. Some manufacturers do.

RME: Accessories - Rackmounts
Old 7th June 2018
  #3495
Gear Maniac
I'm a bit confused about the whole AVB lineup... I assumed every interface employs the same preamps and ESS32 Sabre DAC's. Why then does the dynamic range given on the website differ from different interfaces? For example the Ultralite AVB is specified with 117 db dynamic range, while the Ultralite Mk4 is specified to have 123 db dynamic range. Do they differ in terms of preamp quality and DAC or are they the same in the whole lineup?
Old 7th June 2018
  #3496
Quote:
Originally Posted by pablo1980 View Post
What kind of motherboard should I buy to use thunderbolt with these interfaces in windows?

I don´t know anything about thunderbolt...is a mother with usb-c and a thunderbolt2 adapter a solid choice?
I went with a Asus x99 deluxe II. It comes with a thunderbolt card. Its tricky to enable the card but once you do its pretty awesome
Old 10th June 2018
  #3497
Gear Addict
 

I've been getting along very well with my 1248 since I got it a few months ago, so no major complaints. BUT there is one rather small point that is mildly annoying, and I'd like to see if there is a way to fix it through some setting I may have missed. When I mute an output (Main, Mon, Phones) on the front panel by double clicking the knobs, it doesn't always return back to where it was before muting, and I have to turn it back up from -120db. This happens every time it is powered down with a mute in effect. Is there a way to get it to remember a default unmuted db setting?
Old 10th June 2018
  #3498
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ponzi's Avatar
Because of problems I have had with computers getting confused when booting and the sound module is not powered on, I leave my 1248 on all the time. I think windows gets confused after those twice a year updates are applied, but no big thing to get that back on track.
Old 10th June 2018
  #3499
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirky View Post
I'm a bit confused about the whole AVB lineup... I assumed every interface employs the same preamps and ESS32 Sabre DAC's. Why then does the dynamic range given on the website differ from different interfaces? For example the Ultralite AVB is specified with 117 db dynamic range, while the Ultralite Mk4 is specified to have 123 db dynamic range. Do they differ in terms of preamp quality and DAC or are they the same in the whole lineup?
I don't think they have identical parts nor identical specs. I imagine whatever is headlined on the website refers to the product on that splash page. I had an ultralite avb and it speced with less signal to noise than the 1248 I am using now. I knew that before I bought it.

The page for each product should be accurate for that product.

The specs are very high even on the ultralites--far exceeding the signal to noise of many hardware outboard units--and I wonder how many people are able to notice the difference.
Old 10th June 2018
  #3500
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

I can't speak for the "mini" interfaces, but there seemed, last time I checked, to be two tiers.

Both employ the same-brand convertors but the model #s are slightly-different. The sound is apparently the same; only the dynamic range and noise spec's differ IIRC.

In the real world, for all intents and purposes, the results will be identical for both tiers.
Old 11th June 2018
  #3501
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loopy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
I don't think they have identical parts nor identical specs. I imagine whatever is headlined on the website refers to the product on that splash page. I had an ultralite avb and it speced with less signal to noise than the 1248 I am using now. I knew that before I bought it.

The page for each product should be accurate for that product.

The specs are very high even on the ultralites--far exceeding the signal to noise of many hardware outboard units--and I wonder how many people are able to notice the difference.
There is a post somewhere in the bowels of GS or maybe one of the other forums documenting the various chips used in the different AVB models. They are different although like others have said hearing a difference in real life is up for discussion.

Going from a Delta 1010 to an Ultralite AVB was like going from a Sears "all in one" stereo to a McIntosh based system.
It was like night and day and even a person like me who usually doesn't pick up the difference between boutique converters could easily hear the difference.

Everything is relative.
Coming from tape with dbx noise reduction, ANYTHING is going to be an improvement on a massive level for me
Old 11th June 2018
  #3502
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
I agree. I have had a lot of dacs since the advent of digital--some of them audiophile, and I did have a 1010 back in the day as well. I feel like the motu 1248 is the best sounding one I have had. Most of its use is me listening to music on it and I think it actually sounds sweet on many songs. I have decided that some digitization of some songs, whether due to mastering limiting or bad transfers or what have you, just are going to sound harsh and digital and there is nothing that can be done to save them. For instance, Chris Izak's Wicked Game sounds as good as things can get. However, my zeppelin stuff, no matter how many times re-mastered, has some sort of irritating distortion that limits how loud I can play it. Brothers in Arms is another one that sounds very nice, so I think my playback system is capable of some very nice sounds, but not all the source material is up to the job.

One thing that I do for my own listening pleasure is to use the equalizer built into the 1248 and take down the highest frequencies a bit. Maybe its due to hearing damage or who knows what, but the highest frequencies don't typically bring things I like to hear. My home stereo in the 70s probably didn't reproduce the highest frequencies very well either, and I enjoyed listening to that quite a bit as well--though doubtless id didn't spec like audiophile stuff I had later that cost more but maybe I didn't enjoy commensurate with the high expense.

I keep an eye for new motu products, but I am very pleased with my 1248.

There has been a lot of talk about the dac chips. As I have said before, the surrounding circuitry is very important to get the best sound, so I see the dac as determining the maximum possible sound quality, but the surrounding circuitry determines whether the dac will reach its highest potential or not. So, Looking at the dac chip alone does not guarantee the sound quality, and thinking too much about the chips alone might not lead to the best purchase. A lesser dac with better support circuitry might sound better.

The ultralite models are both built to a price point--and a great value at that price point, and also to a portability point as well. So, very nice units, but it is possible to spend more and get more--IMHO.
Old 12th June 2018
  #3503
Here for the gear
 

2018 Windows w motu

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablo1980 View Post
What kind of motherboard should I buy to use thunderbolt with these interfaces in windows?
Win10Home(1703 build[no update]) with Asus Tuf z270 mk1 MoFo and TBex3 pcie card w Motu16A[1 week old] connected via apple TB2 cable thru apple TB2>TB3 adapter into the TB3 usb-c in-port of the ATBex3 pcie card. Works fine.
The cables set you back more than the TB pcie card itself ...TB is exxy-isht! TB card 95 bucks. Cable and adapter - 69 and 59. Sheesh!

No dramas here with set up, every thing works well.

You have to tinker with your MB uefi TB settings and enable alot of things before your OpSys will "see" your TB set up[refer to poohtube gamer install tuts, they will walk you through any thing you need to know].

Once that is done and TB software is installed, it's all stable

Be warey of updates though.. Install all the factory drivers first which you receive with the HW before worrying about updates. People have had troubles "jumping-the-gun". I just installed everything supplied, it works. I'm recording. Pretty cautious before installing new fandango stuff unless I'm already having drama with supplied cds and what not. 16A firmware update is safe!

Latency I/O from cubase is still a little large ATM. RTL approx 6ms over TB. I'm pretty confident I can lower that once i properly wrap my head around the routing ins and outs of the 16A avb web app and tinker w win10/daw/avb settings. It's so simple[avb routing scheme] that it's quite complex!!

Also, 16A is so versatile, it's a little confusing at first. YOU have to choose what you are going to use as your Main Bus IN and OUT from your DAW and or 2-track editing Apps.

The only real thing which is hard and fast set [I might be wrong...], is PC global OUT to the16A is "Analog 1-2" which shows up in System "Sound" as "Speakers, Motu[2- Pro Audio]" the rest is flexible and pretty much up to the person configuring the set up.

It's good if you have clear cut ultra-specific needs for your I/O which, like me, if you haven't had the luxury of this flexibility, it really makes you think good and hard about how you really want to use up and organise your I/O.

Another thing to consider with regards to the 16A, is it does not have any physical controls on the unit, so, a passive control is a must. Eventually with out it, you blow the roof off of your room!!

EG. Say you are running either Outs 1-2 or 15-16 as Main/Monitor outs plugged straight into powered monitors and those monitors are pegged at a decent level, the only control you have over volume is the rear pots on your monitors or MOTU's webapp's mixer main fader.

If you fire everything up except the webapp and press play, you can guess what happens...

I'm using a UR44 as a passive vol control feeding my (A/B)powered/passive set up until I can get a nano passive or something to control room vol setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablo1980 View Post
I don´t know anything about thunderbolt...is a mother with usb-c and a thunderbolt2 adapter a solid choice?
Don't get it twisted, I did... A USB-C port is not a TB port, unless specified. Rather, TB3 standard has chosen to use USB-C connection as it's I/O choice. This can be misleading and mis-informing to the customer.

There is a motherboard by Asus avail now with TB capability built in to the rear USB-C 3.1 port. Can't remember the model though...

Make sure you read up on all things before committing to a particular purchase...

Do a search for "which motherboard should I choose" on google or the Asus motherboard section on there site, there is a comprehensive list, the MoFo's which do have TB included, actually state this in the product overview. The ones that don't include TB don't state anything at all other than TB capable. Like the Tuf z270 mk1...

Hope all this helps, I took me around a month of research to get it all right. When you do, it's heaven!!
Old 12th June 2018
  #3504
Gear Maniac
 

Thanks so much everybody, I will start researching my options!!
Old 16th June 2018
  #3505
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
I just updated the firmware in my 1248 to the latest beta version build 1392 dated april 27. I don't have touch screen, so can't really test the new features, but just wanted to get the latest and greatest. So far, so good. No problems.
Old 20th June 2018
  #3506
Lives for gear
 

New driver version out today. Seems OK so far. Has an improved Discovery app. I think my 16A might also be starting up a bit quicker with the new firmware?
Old 20th June 2018
  #3507
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Better yet, this isn’t a new beta but rather the final official firmware update. And you buried the lede a little, because as I expected it’s arrival is timed with new hardware as well: the new 8pre-ES looks like it uses the new preamp designs introduced with 828es, but with eight combo XLR/TRS connectors and corresponding pre amps.

Contrary to my initial impressions, it’s a very different beast than the 828es in other respects. No XLR main outs, MIDI, timecode, or coaxial S/PDIF, just a healthy mix of microphone inputs, line outputs, and optical I/O in addition to AVB Ethernet, USB, and Thunderbolt for connectivity.
Old 20th June 2018
  #3508
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Thanks for the heads-up. I installed this update. Went fine, no noticable difference at this point. Now that I know the update process, it goes pretty well. Hint: hook up the network cable with a switch to the computer and internet, get the ip address of the motu from front panel, connect browser to that ip address and let the screen tell you how to apply the update. I found I don't need to disconnect the usb, just can't use it to apply the update.

The new product looks interesting, but not a fit for my limited needs--and its not clear to me its an upgrade sonically from the 1248. I imagine it will work well for those who need more channels.
Old 21st June 2018
  #3509
Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer View Post
New driver version out today. Seems OK so far. Has an improved Discovery app. I think my 16A might also be starting up a bit quicker with the new firmware?
MOTU Release Notes for 828es:

Quote:
v1.3.4+159 (Release Date 2018-06-20)
Introduces new Touch Console™ comment: as noted, no longer Beta
Improves audio startup timing comment: could this mean "Starts up quicker"?
I tried the Beta Touch Console; worked OK, but I'm not a huge fan... I liked the original interface better for client musicians creating monitor mixes on their iDevices.

I'd like to see some documentation from MOTU on the new functionality before I install, as, at least in the Beta, the Touch Console replaced the original Aux screen completely.
Old 25th June 2018
  #3510
Gear Nut
 
wilkinsi's Avatar
I see MOTU have made another "ES" AVB interface, the 8Pre-ES:

MOTU.com - Overview

I don't see any mention of the "V-Limit", which is found in the 8M. I was hoping it would have it.

Oh. I found I had to connect my 828es via USB, because unlike the 8D and 112D, it doesn't update via Ethernet. Not sure why this is. I bought the AVB Switch so I could update all my AVB interfaces at the same time (as well as route audio between them). Its done now anyway.

Last edited by wilkinsi; 25th June 2018 at 06:18 PM..
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