The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface Audio Interfaces
Old 16th July 2017
  #3181
Gear Maniac
 

If anyone needs help with MOTU and Thunderbolt on Windows drop me a PN. I had some niggles when I bought mine last November but since then it is a Workhorse.

Im also downscaling my recording set up from a 1248 to a 624 to be more portable. If anyone in Europe is interested I'm selling mine for 25 % off.
Old 16th July 2017
  #3182
Here for the gear
 

MOTU has now blamed Lemur and TouchOSC as to why OSC isn't working... I can prove with wireshark and pure data that lemur and touchosc send out OSC when targeting my PC yet when targeting the MOTU 624 it sends out nothing... they sent me non working tutorials/instructions as well. Can anyone properly explain how to use OSC to control the 624?
Old 16th July 2017
  #3183
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMouseNYC View Post
MOTU has now blamed Lemur and TouchOSC as to why OSC isn't working... I can prove with wireshark and pure data that lemur and touchosc send out OSC when targeting my PC yet when targeting the MOTU 624 it sends out nothing... they sent me non working tutorials/instructions as well. Can anyone properly explain how to use OSC to control the 624?
I have never tried it, when I've played with their AVB devices, but it's pity, it's not working..

Only document I found is their OSC quick reference
http://cdn-data.motu.com/downloads/a...0Reference.pdf
But that's likely what they already send to you.
There's description and troubleshooting section (it's important to realize, it's unidirectional and other OSC endpoint has to use UDP.. not sure about device uid, and how persistent it is across reboots, reconnections etc.)

There's also some older Lemur template for 1248.
https://liine.net/en/community/user-library/view/541/

But as I've mentioned, I currently don't have any AVB device to try it.

If OSC support will more complete (eg. bidirectional) with proper documentation and working examples, it could be also used to workaround missing MIDI controller support at AVB mixer. For instance with help of oscii-bot by Cockos, which can do nice bridge between MIDI and OSC.

Michal
Old 16th July 2017
  #3184
Here for the gear
 

Old lemur template explicitly states it needs osculator (mac only) to work. He was unable to get direct communication to the MOTU same exact issue in having. MOTU support been dry and generic. I'm ready to return for an RME with working OSC. Even the MOTU app sucks always crashing and disconnecting...
Old 16th July 2017
  #3185
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMouseNYC View Post
Old lemur template explicitly states it needs osculator (mac only) to work. He was unable to get direct communication to the MOTU same exact issue in having. MOTU support been dry and generic. I'm ready to return for an RME with working OSC. Even the MOTU app sucks always crashing and disconnecting...
Hmm.. that's unfortunate, they couldn't help you with that. Because otherwise, it's pretty interesting functionality.
Anyway, for what do you need MOTU app.. I though, it's just redirector to web control for discovered interface. IIRC if you create simple bookmark in web browser, it's not necessary to use it.
Similarly non-working OSC for use with some tablets or phones (Lemur, TouchOSC) might be possibly workarounded by direct use of their web app, when the interface will be connected to the same network.
I'm aware, it doesn't directly solve the issue and Lemur can also simultaneously control another other OSC devices in some more elaborate setup, but maybe it would be just another way for remote control of interface mixer.

Michal
Old 19th July 2017
  #3186
Gear Nut
Hi all,

Andrew in Tech Support and I were able to get Lemur set up with the 624 and can confirm that it works. We were able to make our tablet control the trim levels for the outputs on the device.
That being said, Lemur and OSC can get fairly in depth. We needed to work with engineering to get this set up, so it certainly helps to have a good handle on how to use Lemur to get this up and running.
Old 19th July 2017
  #3187
about AVB Mixer / remote control / OSC

Hello Folks, Just wanted to share some Joy with those, like me, were struggling for a real (I mean faders and pots) remote control for the powerful AVB Mixer. I am not a programmer, but I was able to build a simple OSC mixer, and it works! What you need is (obviously) a midi controller and a cheap app named Osculator (to transform your midi commands from midi cc - or notes - to OSC commands).

I use a Novation Launch Control USB MIDI Controller (but you can use any) to send MIDI to OSCulator and then convert the MIDI to OSC and send that to Motu AVB 16A Interface Mixer.
Motu AVB 16A use OSC commands like /mix/main/<index>/matrix/fader, where <index> means your channel of choice.
Motu AVB 16A use a UDP port as receive port for OSC (it has no send, so keep in mind you don’t get a visual feedback, just a dumb mixer. (I am thinking about a workaround, and if anyone would help, is very welcome).
What You have to do:
Look at your AVB interface browser page and, on the device panel, take note of your IP Address (like 192.168.1.137) and OSC UDP port (es. 47514).
Open Osculator and first thing first set up your devices as midi input sources in midi input ports.
In Osculator create a new command map list. (This is the most difficult step, but once you get it, it’s simple).
Use MOTU OSC Quick Reference to locate the command You need to control.

http://cdn-data.motu.com/downloads/a...0Reference.pdf

As a sidetone I have to say that a couple of details are important (to save time struggling): AVB channel 0 is Channel 1 of the mixer in general. So If You want to map, say, Channel 1 of the (matrix) mixer, You’ll have to insert this kind of string:
/mix/chan/0/matrix/fader
Note that you have to put "/" as begin of the string, otherwise nothing will happen. This was not specified in the Manual.
Some things don’t work properly (reverb time) and I’d need some further command or in depth exploration, but for a simple fader / mute and send configuration it is pretty straightforward.
If You set things properly, the magic happens!


EDIT
I was able to make Reverb Time to work, and doing so I learned something new about OSC language. Cool! Now I think AVB remote mixer is going to become reality.

Last edited by sigmatibet; 21st July 2017 at 07:01 PM..
Old 20th July 2017
  #3188
Here for the gear
 

MOTU did not get lemur working with the 624. I specifally asked to control the trim for phones and main and the first time you send me instructions for a phase button, the second time you send me instructions for controlling a fader, and now this third time you send me instructions to control mic trim. I need PHONES trim. My current work around was to send daw master output to mix in 1/2 then route the main/monitors to respective phone/main analog outs. I'm under the impression phone/main trim can't be controlled in this manner. Would be nice if they just showed me how to control phone/main trim instead of everything else. Also on a side note albeit related. Controlling a fader in lemur does not give linear control. It starts with excessive movement and moves less the more you try and move it. But yeah PHONE/MAIN trim...
Old 23rd July 2017
  #3189
Lives for gear
 
ModularOverkill's Avatar
 

Revisiting an older topic regarding taking TRS outputs into a TS device. The main suggestions to deal with this were:

* create a custom cable where RING is floated (NOT shorted to sleeve). This is fine if you have the ability and inclination to custom make your own cables.
* modify an existing TRS cable by just cutting the RING connection on one end
* buy a TRS insert cable and use the TIP side into your TS device (and just cut off the RING side).

None of those are super great for a lot of people, but I THINK I found the solution -- grab a direct out cable (HOSA DOC-106), and just snip the jumper from RING to TIP (assuming the connector unscrews)? Then I'd have a general TRS to TS cable that I could use on any MOTU outputs.

(Backstory for those just reading this -- MOTU outputs aren't cross coupled, so if you do MOTU TRS OUT -> device TS IN, you will potentially get noise and distortion)
Old 23rd July 2017
  #3190
Lives for gear
 

@ModularOverkill I'm not sure, what will be exact benefit of the "solution".
It requires cutting of ring wire at TRS side anyway, there's no jumper inside.
http://hosatech.com/wp-content/uploa...106_Pinout.pdf

Mod of existing TRS cable is easiest solution even for someone, who despise all the cable work (otherwise he would either desolder or make own TRS-TS patch ).
Getting some cheap non-molded TRS patch cable and ten seconds with cutting pliers.
You have dedicated single interconnection cable without additional adapters connectors and contact surfaces in the path. Only remaining thing is to properly mark such modified cable to avoid its misuse with another balanced device.

Michal
Old 23rd July 2017
  #3191
Lives for gear
 
ModularOverkill's Avatar
 

The benefit is that I can use these as adapters and if I rearrange my studio, I don't need to modify cables all over again. I already have some modified cables that I made, and when I changed configuration I had to find more and then modify those. Having one set of adapters and then being able to use any TS cables on hand is much more convenient.
Old 23rd July 2017
  #3192
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ModularOverkill View Post
The benefit is that I can use these as adapters and if I rearrange my studio, I don't need to modify cables all over again. I already have some modified cables that I made, and when I changed configuration I had to find more and then modify those. Having one set of adapters and then being able to use any TS cables on hand is much more convenient.
O.K. makes sense, if you want to have it as handy "troubleshooter" for non-typical connections.
Personally I have absolutely minimal count of unbalanced devices here or TS cables by hand (except of guitar cords), but hey I'm not a ModularOverkill :D
So I would tend to make pair of those TRS-TS cables as a special accessory for each particular device.

Besides of pinout, interfacing of various unbalanced devices sometimes requires also level adjustment.. it's good, MOTU AVB series has individual trims for line I/Os. However we use Orion 32 as a main converter, which has one global sensitivity calibration setting, so its adjustment messes up with whole box. So it's still feasible to go through some line stage with level adjustment.. besides of various passive and active DIs, we happen to also have one older bidirectonal 4 channel Tascam interface box, where is possible to switch individual sensitivity, ground-lift, mult input signal etc. Its quite handy.

Michal
Old 23rd July 2017
  #3193
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ModularOverkill View Post
...(Backstory for those just reading this -- MOTU outputs aren't cross coupled, so if you do MOTU TRS OUT -> device TS IN, you will potentially get noise and distortion)
If you have time, I could use an explanation of what 'cross coupled' outputs are. I am not familiar with that concept.
Old 23rd July 2017
  #3194
Lives for gear
 

@ponzi
You can check some introduction documents about various type of balanced topologies by Rane or Presonus for example..
https://www.presonus.com/learn/techn...ced-unbalanced

Basically from operational point of view, when "unbalancing" cross-coupled output you can (and should) short negative signal (-, cold) to the ground, which is exactly what happens, if you plug TS cable to TRS output socket. Also this output topology has same signal level for balanced and unbalanced connection. Whereas "normal" fully differential output stage has 6dB level drop, if you take unbalanced output signal from hot against the ground.

Technically, stage is done either with use of three standalone opamps or more commonly with single dedicated balanced line output IC for instance by Analog Devices or THAT.

Michal
Old 23rd July 2017
  #3195
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Ok, so I am working on getting the various balanced topologies sorted out. I have a motu 1248, and I wonder if it has the same non-cross coupled topology as the poster mentioned for other motu devices. I can't find a schematic on line, so if someone from motu wants to address that question, it would be very nice. Thanks.
Old 23rd July 2017
  #3196
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Ok, so I am working on getting the various balanced topologies sorted out. I have a motu 1248, and I wonder if it has the same non-cross coupled topology as the poster mentioned for other motu devices. I can't find a schematic on line, so if someone from motu wants to address that question, it would be very nice. Thanks.
I'd guess, it would be the the same across whole line-up, so like 16A, which ModularOverkill mentioned.
Fully differential (non cross-coupled stage with that level drop) is the most common type, you can find at audio interfaces.
Anyway, if you're interested about that in general, then check the linked article, it's worth of read, there is one section, where are described very easy methods for identify output stage type without any measurement device.
Although you don't necessarily need that knowledge for fixing something in current setup and you should use proper balanced connection, where possible. It's IMO just good to be aware of the topic, because you might need to interface various devices in the future.

Michal
Old 23rd July 2017
  #3197
Lives for gear
 
subspace's Avatar
The simple solution if you use a patchbay is a few patch cords with nothing tied to ring at one end. So the MOTU TRS output feeds a top jack, you're unbalanced input is fed from a bottom jack with ring tied to sleeve, and the 'special' cord is patched between them with the floated ring connection at the MOTU end. The MOTU's negative side will be left floating whereas it's ground connection ends up on the ring and sleeve at the unbalanced end.
Old 24th July 2017
  #3198
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
I'd guess, it would be the the same across whole line-up, so like 16A, which ModularOverkill mentioned.
Fully differential (non cross-coupled stage with that level drop) is the most common type, you can find at audio interfaces.
Anyway, if you're interested about that in general, then check the linked article, it's worth of read, there is one section, where are described very easy methods for identify output stage type without any measurement device.
Although you don't necessarily need that knowledge for fixing something in current setup and you should use proper balanced connection, where possible. It's IMO just good to be aware of the topic, because you might need to interface various devices in the future.

Michal
Thanks much. I will dig into this.
Old 25th July 2017
  #3199
Here for the gear
 

Please guys is the 8a better than the UA Apollo twin mk2....... Talking about sound quality and converters..
Thanks
Old 25th July 2017
  #3200
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordGabrielz View Post
Please guys is the 8a better than the UA Apollo twin mk2....... Talking about sound quality and converters..
Thanks
"Better" is so subjective that it is becoming a useless question. Take a look at the specs first. They are different animals.
Old 8th August 2017
  #3201
Here for the gear
 

How do people feel about the 624s headphone outputs? They don't seem to be driving my Audio Technica r70x's very well. They are 470 ohms, anyone else have experience with high resistance cans? Thinking of getting a Schiit Magni Uber 2 as a headphone amplifier, unless I'm missing an element here.
Old 8th August 2017
  #3202
Lives for gear
 
ModularOverkill's Avatar
 

hmmm, now I'm confused about the right cabling for unbalanced.

I have some cables that have the ring floating on one side -- I should plug THAT side into the MOTU? I've been doing it the opposite this whole time (TRS to MOTU, and TRS w/ R cut to the unbalanced inputs on other gear).
Old 8th August 2017
  #3203
Lives for gear
 
ModularOverkill's Avatar
 

Also, anyone seeing the Motu Discovery app being super buggy on windows? It crashes on me a lot of times just launching. Or after I close a browser window to the mixer it just disappears.
Old 8th August 2017
  #3204
Gear Nut
 
tagpass's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ModularOverkill View Post
Also, anyone seeing the Motu Discovery app being super buggy on windows? It crashes on me a lot of times just launching. Or after I close a browser window to the mixer it just disappears.
Also buggy on the Mac. I get intermittent freezing meters, the disappearing mixer, and other random freezes. Most lockups occur when switching from my "standalone" studio preset to my recording setup or when switching devices (I am running an 8A as a master and a 16A as an expander connected via Ethernet). So if I make changes on one device, or rename a channel or something and then switch back to the other device, the Discovery app can no longer find either. Remedy usually involves hard booting the devices and/or restarting the computer.
Old 9th August 2017
  #3205
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ModularOverkill View Post
Also, anyone seeing the Motu Discovery app being super buggy on windows? It crashes on me a lot of times just launching. Or after I close a browser window to the mixer it just disappears.
I've had quite a few issues, the latest driver caused a lot of pops and crackles after 5 minutes or so? I couldn't even get access to the I/O routing page, it just woudn't work and yes I have had the MOTU disc app crash..

I reverted back to an older version and I've not had any issues (from a recording side at least).
Old 10th August 2017
  #3206
Lives for gear
 
emrr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tagpass View Post
Also buggy on the Mac. I get intermittent freezing meters
I reported that one long ago, has been consistently a problem when switching desktops over the last several updates. Did not happen before then. MOTU could not duplicate my experience.
Old 11th August 2017
  #3207
Gear Nut
 
Rafter Man's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ModularOverkill View Post
Also, anyone seeing the Motu Discovery app being super buggy on windows? It crashes on me a lot of times just launching. Or after I close a browser window to the mixer it just disappears.
I’ve been having that occur on Mac with far greater frequency since the last update. The toolbar icon will frequently become grayed out, making it to where I would have to access the avb home screen via the browser.

Should also add that even when the icon intermittently disappears, the unit is still otherwise working normally. I find that restarting the interface and/or the computer will usually fix it for a while.

I’m connected by Thunderbolt 2, btw, and keep two (2) 16A’s connected by ethernet.
Old 11th August 2017
  #3208
Lives for gear
 
thismercifulfate's Avatar
I just got my new MOTU 16A up and running today. I upgraded from an Apogee Duet 2, which has served me very well. The Duet is a sold interface and I was not expecting much of a difference on the monitoring end, but when I A/B'd them the difference was obvious. The 16A has better separation, more clarity in the bass and best of all the midrange in the center of the stereo image sound like a blanket was removed. I've never heard such amazing midrange bloom and clarity in my room!

I'm really excited to be adding more preamp flavors to my rig and also expanding into a hybrid setup.
Attached Thumbnails
MOTU 1248, 8M, 16A Thunderbolt interface-img_5882.jpg  
Old 11th August 2017
  #3209
Lives for gear
 
allstar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
I reported that one long ago, has been consistently a problem when switching desktops over the last several updates. Did not happen before then. MOTU could not duplicate my experience.
Yes, seeing that quite frequently here too ( 16A / USB / Chrome / OSX 10.10.5 ).
Quite a disconcerting bug when the chips are down on a busy session and you need to verify signals.

To get them working again in a hurry, on Chrome, I zoom in and out using cmd+ and cmd - and then refresh the page. No method to that madness, it just seems to get it going again.

Last edited by allstar; 11th August 2017 at 09:34 PM..
Old 11th August 2017
  #3210
Lives for gear
 
allstar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thismercifulfate View Post
I just got my new MOTU 16A. . .
Just figured, I only ever post here about things that I don't like about my 16A. They are far outweighed by things I do like and yes, the sound quality is great. Haven't regretted getting this for the studio once.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump