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Sonimus Satson vs Sonimus Britson Saturation Plugins
Old 20th July 2014
  #1
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BasariStudios's Avatar
Sonimus Satson vs Sonimus Britson

Hi All,
its not ONE OF THOSE AGAIN but what i am trying to find out is what is the
difference, not the sonic difference but the application difference.
Can you use them together? If so, which one goes first which one next?
In reality i know what Britson is but i do not know what Satson is.
If its just Saturation, do you really need it next to Britson in the Chain?
Is it a Tape Emulation? Which then needs to be first in the chain.

Thanks
Old 20th July 2014
  #2
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A Fak's Avatar
Both are console emulations with HP/LP filters for the channels. The difference being the console they emulate:

Satson = SSL
Britson = Neve

Do you NEED both probably not but it's nice to have options. IMO one is more than enough for a mix because you can get color from other gear (EQ\COMP\ETC) but I have read about people stacking them.

As far as which to use first I would use the GS cliche of "use your ears". Do you want a it to sound like was tracked threw a SSL then run threw a Neve or the opposite? I don't own Britson but it seems it has a little more color than Statson so take that for what its worth.
Old 20th July 2014
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Poster above me seemed to nail it.

They are the same KIND of tool, but different versions of it.

I only have the full version of Britson, and I love it, use it on every mix. I also have the Satson Channel plug from CM magazine, and I had an 80's hair metal song that I mixed thru that, but with Britson Buss on all busses still.

I'd say it's up to you whichever you want, unfortunately no demos. Maybe just read/research the Neve and SSL characteristics, and see which one 'speaks' to you. They're both good, just different colours
Old 20th July 2014
  #4
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BasariStudios's Avatar
Thanks guys, now i understand. I actually like Britson a little more and its a little more Gritty.
I think Satson distorts a little more then Britson but Britson has a little more MoJo.
Old 20th July 2014
  #5
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BasariStudios's Avatar
This is a little comparison i did today, it includes Briston, Satson, 112db Redline Preamp and ReelBus.
More info is in the Playlist information:
https://soundcloud.com/basaristudios...oles-emulation
Old 20th July 2014
  #6
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To my ears Briston gives a little 3D lift to a track.

Old 20th July 2014
  #7
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The lack of a steeper hp filter on the Brit is a major difference. As are the variations on the Brit bus.

I find sat to have a creamy top. The Brit is a tad buzzy.

Either can be better or worse than the other depending in need.

My fastest version of when is best:

Sat- for taming, fixing, making room

Brit- for enriching, texturing, glueing
Old 20th July 2014
  #8
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BasariStudios's Avatar
Thanks David, i just also added a Bypased version with no FX at all, check it out again.
I like the Redline Preamp and Briston more then the others.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #9
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Boreal's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fak View Post
Both are console emulations with HP/LP filters for the channels. The difference being the console they emulate:

Satson = SSL
Britson = Neve

Do you NEED both probably not but it's nice to have options. IMO one is more than enough for a mix because you can get color from other gear (EQ\COMP\ETC) but I have read about people stacking them.

As far as which to use first I would use the GS cliche of "use your ears". Do you want a it to sound like was tracked threw a SSL then run threw a Neve or the opposite? I don't own Britson but it seems it has a little more color than Statson so take that for what its worth.
Interesting, never thought to stack them. I think I may start doing this on many of my channels!
Old 2nd August 2014
  #10
I compared both the britson and satson on a few of my mixes with equal amounts of gain (+8).

Briston :
Really oved the sweetened saturation which this plugin gives especially could feel it in the high mids and up. I think this will be awesome for rock music and blues. It sounded a bit narrower compared to satson.

Satson:
This sounded a bit darker in comparison but not in a bad sense at all. The sounds appeared deeper and more intimate but not as sweet as britson. My mixes which I ran through satson sounded huge. Everytime I clicked the bypass button and listened to the raw track , the sound lacked a lot of depth.

I really cant pick one. Really depends on the mix and both have a really great sound. The raw tracks seem to sound 'plasticky and lifeless' in comparison . I think you should get both
Old 3rd August 2014
  #11
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Thats so funny I had Britson as the SSL sound. Shows how much I don't know.

I am hearing what ^ he hears over here.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #12
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BasariStudios's Avatar
Thanks Guys...and i got both, including the SonEQ Pro too. What a great Bundle.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #13
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Little David's Avatar
I was surprised at how much I liked Britson, considering I couldn't tell the difference in posted examples I heard before buying it. It gives me so much wiggle room on mixes in the high end! It's almost like a halo on the sound of the track.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #14
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BasariStudios's Avatar
Keep in mind that this kind of plugins are very strict on Gain Staging,
i don't think they will work properly on just any kind of Input.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #15
what would be the proper gain staging for them ?
Old 3rd August 2014
  #16
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BasariStudios's Avatar
Satson and Britson work at 0DbVU, on Britson all you have to do is use the Fader for proper staging.
Place a good VU Meter as the first plugin on every insert and start from there, everything has to
usually be 0dbVU as it was meant to be in the real Analog world.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #17
sorry if i sound dumb , but doesnt 0dbvu mean the signal is at the peak limit? if i add further gain on the satson , wont it clip?
Old 3rd August 2014
  #18
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BasariStudios's Avatar
Cubase or any DAW meters are Peak Meters, a VU Meter is different, it shows what
the actual Loudness is, not the peaks. I am not fully literate about all this but i know
the basics on how to get proper gain staging and mix. So, lets say in Cubase you see
a 0 reading on the meter, on a VU the needle will be all the way in red without even
probably moving. If you Peak in Cubase somewhere in -10 then the VU Meter might
read somewhere around 0, before red starts. So if you hit at 0VU on your VU Meter
then you are safe. Also, VU Meters have to be calibrated, that's another topic.
I usually calibrate mine at -18 or 20dbFS.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monitorlove View Post
sorry if i sound dumb , but doesnt 0dbvu mean the signal is at the peak limit? if i add further gain on the satson , wont it clip?
The default in Britson is -18 dbfs = 0VU. You can switch to different calibrations with the plugin. Get your pre-fader/pre-plugin levels hitting 0vu and you are set. For drums aim lower on the vu, say -6 vu. Cymbals even lower.

I use a trim plug in (if necessary) front of Britson to get them to 0vu. Otherwise just use the fader on the Britson. Set it and forget

Try not to stray from that level throughout your plugin chain.
Old 4th August 2014
  #20
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BasariStudios's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by los marbles View Post
The default in Britson is -18 dbfs = 0VU. You can switch to different calibrations with the plugin. Get your pre-fader/pre-plugin levels hitting 0vu and you are set. For drums aim lower on the vu, say -6 vu. Cymbals even lower.

I use a trim plug in (if necessary) front of Britson to get them to 0vu. Otherwise just use the fader on the Britson. Set it and forget

Try not to stray from that level throughout your plugin chain.

+1
Old 4th August 2014
  #21
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rogernotroger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by los marbles View Post
The default in Britson is -18 dbfs = 0VU. You can switch to different calibrations with the plugin. Get your pre-fader/pre-plugin levels hitting 0vu and you are set. For drums aim lower on the vu, say -6 vu. Cymbals even lower.

I use a trim plug in (if necessary) front of Britson to get them to 0vu. Otherwise just use the fader on the Britson. Set it and forget

Try not to stray from that level throughout your plugin chain.
Indeed. I am doing the same in Ableton, using "utility" to set -18dbfs as the default for every track.

Then I am finding that I don't necessarily want Britson on every channel.

I might actually use Britson on groups instead.

Then on the pre-mix busses I'll use Satson.

On the master buss, maybe Britson Buss.

I've realised there isn't anyone standing over my shoulder checking my work. I can do what I want!!! Ahhahaaahahaha ahahahaaha ahhaha ha ha ha ha haaaahaahahhahhhH!!!!!!
Old 4th August 2014
  #22
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rogernotroger's Avatar
 

Just a quick observation or two on Britson vs Satson:

Britson has a looser feel. The low end "un-knits" itself. Kicks sound flappier. Hi end seems to get spread around a bit, smeared maybe? However, there is a musicality to the overall feel. Works great for acoustic or vintage style tracks.

Satson has a tighter feel. It seems to tidy up the low end. Highs aren't smeared as with Britson. I prefer this for harder material that doesn't need so much retro vibe.

Britson buss - vintage mode gives loose, woolly low end. Modern mode pulls low end into the centre (to my ears) and controls the looseness.

To be honest, I don't like having these on every track, even though I know that is the initial design concept. I prefer to use them on my mix busses or groups, and keep each individual track a little cleaner, using a basic trim utility to set -18dbfs etc.

I think putting Britson Buss on the master makes a big difference, and that's all I really use it for at the moment.

Both Britson and Satson fit well into my workflow, but they are still just a part of a larger arsenal of tools that are working for me at the moment.
Old 4th August 2014
  #23
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogernotroger View Post
Just a quick observation or two on Britson vs Satson:

Britson has a looser feel. The low end "un-knits" itself. Kicks sound flappier. Hi end seems to get spread around a bit, smeared maybe? However, there is a musicality to the overall feel. Works great for acoustic or vintage style tracks.

Satson has a tighter feel. It seems to tidy up the low end. Highs aren't smeared as with Britson. I prefer this for harder material that doesn't need so much retro vibe.

Britson buss - vintage mode gives loose, woolly low end. Modern mode pulls low end into the centre (to my ears) and controls the looseness.

To be honest, I don't like having these on every track, even though I know that is the initial design concept. I prefer to use them on my mix busses or groups, and keep each individual track a little cleaner, using a basic trim utility to set -18dbfs etc.

I think putting Britson Buss on the master makes a big difference, and that's all I really use it for at the moment.

Both Britson and Satson fit well into my workflow, but they are still just a part of a larger arsenal of tools that are working for me at the moment.
Interesting, I wonder if it's the crosstalk spreading something that should be in mono(like <200 on a guitar or something) thats making it 'wooly' to you
Old 4th August 2014
  #24
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rogernotroger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotJimmyBuffet View Post
Interesting, I wonder if it's the crosstalk spreading something that should be in mono(like <200 on a guitar or something) thats making it 'wooly' to you
Very possibly. By the way, I wasn't necessarily using "woolly" etc as negative terms; it's a pleasant sound, just not always what I want to hear.
Old 5th August 2014
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

you guys talk about using trim "pre" brit/satson, to get to 0dbVu first... so you are saying then, that its not okay to set Brit or Sat to 0dbVu itself?.. what I mean... is, instead of using a pre-trim, just use Brit or Sat as first plugin in chain, and then use it's own trim to set the sound to 0dbVu (on Sat or Brits Vu-meter that is)?

now, I'm assuming that your response will have something to do with making sure to not supply Brit/Sat with an input that is already "too hot" i.e. over 0dbVu... but, what if you supply Brit/Sat with a sound that is NOT over 0dbVu, wouldn't it be okay to NOT use a pre-trim?.. and to just possibly boost signal to 0dbVu with Brit/Sat's trims?

does my question make sense?
Old 5th August 2014
  #26
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BasariStudios's Avatar
Yes your question makes sense and yes, exactly as you said. I use a different Method but
as you described works too, i already bring the signal to Brit/Sat already at 0dbVU.
Sometimes i make it a little hotter in Brit/Sat on purpose just to get some color.
Old 5th August 2014
  #27
Gear Nut
 

No no, you use Britson/Satson AS the trim knob. You can still over drive it, but the plug itself is the trim knob.
Old 5th August 2014
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotJimmyBuffet View Post
No no, you use Britson/Satson AS the trim knob. You can still over drive it, but the plug itself is the trim knob.
That's the idea, but I believe you can use a trim beforehand if the signal is right out of wack or if you want to use Britson to drive the signal, thus using the sonic qualities of the plug as a saturation tool by lowering a pre-Britson trim plug below -18 and driving the Britson a little harder. I guess you could use output compensation as well to achieve this, I'm still experimenting with that option.

I can hear the difference using the plug in these different ways. Whether it's "proper" or not! I dunno, but it does give different colors when you hit it at different amounts of gain.

I like having a PPM in there as well.

This is a new approach for me too, still evolving the idea of using a console emulator, but I'm liking what I hear so far.
Old 5th August 2014
  #29
Gear Nut
 

Nope, doesnt work like that. Britson does not add saturation with the fader, it only affects gain, and saturation is done internally based on gain level. Meaning if you bring a signal down by 10db before britson, then put it up 14 DB with the fader, it would be the same as just pushing Britson 4db.

You're ears are wrong, sorry. Look at the signal flow structure provided in the manual.
Old 5th August 2014
  #30
Gear Maniac
 
rogernotroger's Avatar
 

I'm not getting into "wrong" or "right" methodology, so...

I don't want Britson on every channel, so I use Ableton 'utility' to set -18dbfs, then adjust the clip level, then if I want to add Britson, I add it for the characteristics, and don't worry about using it as a trim.

Might not be "right", but it works for me, and - here's the thing - nobody else will know either way when they hear the mix! It either sounds good, or it doesn't.
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