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The Ultimate Piano Shootout Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 3rd August 2014
  #61
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I don't see any mention of the 430GB Production Grand Piano which ships on a USB 3.0 hard drive. Eight microphone perspectives

Also, how about the 128GB Garritan Yamaha CFX. It pretty much needs to be installed on a SSD drive and ships on a USB thumb drive.

Both pianos are in the $300 price range.

Dig deep friends.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #62
Tui
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The Production Grand sample I posted were made with the "Gold" edition which operates at 24 bit 44.1 kHz and also has all 8 mic positions.
Old 6th August 2014
  #63
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feck's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlanephil View Post
I don't see any mention of the 430GB Production Grand Piano which ships on a USB 3.0 hard drive. Eight microphone perspectives

Also, how about the 128GB Garritan Yamaha CFX. It pretty much needs to be installed on a SSD drive and ships on a USB thumb drive.

Both pianos are in the $300 price range.

Dig deep friends.
I own both and posted both. There were some glitches due to some Studio One beta version errors, but the tone was apparent. I highly recommend them both - along with Vienna Imperial, they are getting used most often in my productions these days.
Old 6th August 2014
  #64
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I didn't hear anything that would have me jumping up and down. They all sounded boring and uninvolving, and none of them had the size/ power...of the real thing, or the bell like tones of the high end of a fine grand piano.

Odd that it is so hard to capture this.

Especially within a pop track, I think I would get results just as
"impressive" with a 20 year old Kurzweil PX1000 module as any of these.

OK maybe not THAT module... but..some Kurzweil thing anyway

JMHO.

TH
Old 6th August 2014
  #65
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I read that you still needed Ivory American Concert D. I downloaded your MIDI file, but the program I use (Reaper) won't accept the .midi extension. Only .mid
Old 6th August 2014
  #66
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JNPRWT View Post
I read that you still needed Ivory American Concert D. I downloaded your MIDI file, but the program I use (Reaper) won't accept the .midi extension. Only .mid
What happens if you remove the last 'i'?
Old 6th August 2014
  #67
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Ivory American Concert D
Attached Files
Old 6th August 2014
  #68
mixmixmix
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This Ivory Library in previous clip - that hurts my ears, so hard and percussive on Forte passages. Would be a torture to use library like this.
Old 6th August 2014
  #69
Gear Maniac
 

Anyone here with Imperfect Samples pianos such as the Braunschweig (or the big Steinway Walnut Concert Grand /complete) and the AcousticSamples OldBlackGrand Pleyel for a 'possibly' more intimate sound?... would be nice.
Great thread!

regards,
Old 6th August 2014
  #70
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixmixmix View Post
This Ivory Library in previous clip - that hurts my ears, so hard and percussive on Forte passages. Would be a torture to use library like this.
It's not the library.... and (sorry for being the bringer of a critical comment about the validity in terms of the 'ultimateness" of this shootout) I don't think the original MIDI file is optimal for such a test. To use the American Steinway D as an example, it sounds brilliant in eg these examples (see below), but hard and and almost thin when using the MIDI file this thread uses.

Ivory II American Concert D -- Sampled Steinway Piano - YouTube
Synthogy | Ivory II American Concert D Demos

As an example, there are very few 'rich' chords in this MIDI file, and few chords in the lower register. There are also few complex chords in general, and few chords played with low velocity. I have listened to a lot of American Steinway D demos, and plan to go for that particular library because it seems to be the best of them all especially when it comes to *not* being too percussive/hard etc.
Old 6th August 2014
  #71
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ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post

OK maybe not THAT module... but..some Kurzweil thing anyway

JMHO.

TH
Yeah, but Kurz pianos have always been something special, even since the days of very limited memory! Those Kurz guys just had it down to an art form. It's part science and part being able to listen.

Even the MicroPiano still sounds great to this day.

Regards,
Frank
Old 6th August 2014
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
I didn't hear anything that would have me jumping up and down. They all sounded boring and uninvolving, and none of them had the size/ power...of the real thing, or the bell like tones of the high end of a fine grand piano.

Odd that it is so hard to capture this.

Especially within a pop track, I think I would get results just as
"impressive" with a 20 year old Kurzweil PX1000 module as any of these.

OK maybe not THAT module... but..some Kurzweil thing anyway

JMHO.

TH
Why not record an old Kurzweil playing this Midi file then and upload the mp3? Would be interesting to see how it holds up. Personally I sold my old Kurzweil stage piano ages ago and for the first time in 20 years of playing electric pianos I like what I hear from the new libraries but taste differs I guess.
Old 2nd September 2014
  #73
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Vienna Imperial?

Did we ever get a bounce of that for comparison?
Old 2nd September 2014
  #74
Old 2nd September 2014
  #75
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Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrockJon View Post
@Arksun With all due respect, I mostly disagree with you. I agree it's important to be comfortable playing whichever library upon which you settle. That said, I think a lot can be distinguished simply by listening to the differences between them. The MIDI file here most certainly was not prepared with any particular library in mind. As stated in the OP, it's dynamic and covers a majority of the piano's range and was selected for that reason alone.

More, I've not driven anyone toward one library over another. While I suspect a discussion will eventually ensue, I expect everyone will draw their own conclusions. The furthest extent to which I'm interested in others' opinions is helping me hear things that aren't readily apparent to me. That said, I have yet to be compelled to share my options with others. I think with a test like this, the evidence speaks for itself.
I know I`m late to the party. Most of the samples I`ve listened to sound pretty good but what really sets one library apart from another is how the samples respond to my touch. I didn`t listen to every sample but one thing I find very interesting is how Komplete`s Giant sounds so phenomenal in the demos and then when you actually sit down to play it, it sounds nothing like the demo. Its very disappointing. Its definitely an interesting library but the way the Giant responds to my touch is really unnatural. Just wondering if anyone else has had similar feelings?

So what I`m getting at is, and I`m coming at this from a pianists perspective is, which library felt most natural? That to me is a huge part of how I play and how the piano will sound because most of them sound pretty darn good.
Old 2nd September 2014
  #76
Tui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixmixmix View Post
This Ivory Library in previous clip - that hurts my ears, so hard and percussive on Forte passages. Would be a torture to use library like this.
Forte is still a big problem with practically all libraries... I think one of the main reasons might be the ridiculously restrictive midi protocol. Imagine a real piano with only 127 velocity variations.
Old 2nd September 2014
  #77
Tui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley View Post
So what I`m getting at is, and I`m coming at this from a pianists perspective is, which library felt most natural? That to me is a huge part of how I play and how the piano will sound because most of them sound pretty darn good.
I agree. How a library sounds and feels to me, is one thing. However, how it sounds within the context of a recording is yet another. Some libraries can "feel" great, but they sound less convincing when used for recording.
Old 2nd September 2014
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrockJon View Post
Damn... thank you.

Really like the Vienna player perspective.
Old 2nd September 2014
  #79
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Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
I agree. How a library sounds and feels to me, is one thing. However, how it sounds within the context of a recording is yet another. Some libraries can "feel" great, but they sound less convincing when used for recording.
Don`t get me wrong, I really like how the Giant allows for so much "tweaking" but what I`m really after is a good piano sound on its own. When I have that, I can fit it in the mix with EQ.
Old 3rd September 2014
  #80
Here is the Pianoteq Bluthner, player perspective and completely clean/dry.
Attached Files

Bluthner.mp3 (6.11 MB, 2291 views)

Old 4th September 2014
  #81
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy View Post
Great thread! IMHO though the big problem with playing the same MIDI file through different VSTi is that you are not really playing the piano. The expression, style, velocity, etc is all based upon the particular VSTi that the performer was using during the creation of the MIDI file.
For example, when I play Ivory American D I play differently than when I choose say PianoTeq or Ivory Italian Grand.
They are all different instruments and all react differently to playing style.

Just a thought.
As others have said, there's no real way around this here, but you are absolutely correct. I would play each VST piano differently, as I play real pianos differently.

Also, this is a nice piece, but it is kind of long for these purposes, and generally mellow. But you cannot please everyone all the time, so thanks for doing this.
Old 7th September 2014
  #82
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Nothing new in my post here ... these shoot outs are very much appreciated for one reason if no other ... I agree with the post a few above that, to me, the Ivory sounds really intense and brittle, and then again the pianoteq just a couple above sounds nothing like a real piano to me, but the lesson is that these are my ears - I really believe that unlike any sense I have been able to share with others before - we are all listening to the same sound waves but perceiving very different things in the way ... and bear with me here ... a bat "sees" the surface of a lake through sonar and perceives 'a good hunting ground for insects', whereas a human may perceive a gentle, rippling pond in which to dive and have a swim, or drink, just because we're programmed for that, but a bat really isn't. IMHO perception is everything, so we all have to try for ourselves, because there is no best. I also love lightweight low powered sports cars where others love high powered heavy beasts, but ultimately for the purpose of getting form A to B pleasurably ... this might sound like naive sophistry, or cliche, but the more I listen, the more it seems the only answer to variety of opinions on every preference. Hey, that's going to seem wishy washy to most, but it makes the most sense to me ... IMHO ...
Old 7th September 2014
  #83
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Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_Jezz View Post
Nothing new in my post here ... these shoot outs are very much appreciated for one reason if no other ... I agree with the post a few above that, to me, the Ivory sounds really intense and brittle, and then again the pianoteq just a couple above sounds nothing like a real piano to me, but the lesson is that these are my ears - I really believe that unlike any sense I have been able to share with others before - we are all listening to the same sound waves but perceiving very different things in the way ... and bear with me here ... a bat "sees" the surface of a lake through sonar and perceives 'a good hunting ground for insects', whereas a human may perceive a gentle, rippling pond in which to dive and have a swim, or drink, just because we're programmed for that, but a bat really isn't. IMHO perception is everything, so we all have to try for ourselves, because there is no best. I also love lightweight low powered sports cars where others love high powered heavy beasts, but ultimately for the purpose of getting form A to B pleasurably ... this might sound like naive sophistry, or cliche, but the more I listen, the more it seems the only answer to variety of opinions on every preference. Hey, that's going to seem wishy washy to most, but it makes the most sense to me ... IMHO ...
I`m not following you but I`ll just say that the way a library responds is just as important (to me) as the sound.
Old 7th September 2014
  #84
It's worth noting that removing the reverb on Pianoteq is the equivalent of hearing the piano in an anechoic chamber, which is a very unnatural listening environment. All the piano sample libraries are likely to naturally have some element of reverb from the room or studio they are recorded in. It's not really an apples to apples comparison, but it's what was asked for in this thread.
Old 7th September 2014
  #85
Quote:
Originally Posted by bestbeforetoday View Post
Here is the Pianoteq Bluthner, player perspective and completely clean/dry.
For comparison with the painfully dry Bluethner, here is the Bluethner Studio Recording preset, but with the default room sound setting dialled back 6db to keep it pretty well dry.
Attached Files

Bluethner Studio.mp3 (5.84 MB, 2240 views)

Old 7th September 2014
  #86
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Old 20th September 2014
  #87
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Anyone have Orchestral Tools Stenway D Piano? I made this video last year and won't have time to do a comparison test. The only issue is the upper range of OT piano is harsh.

Joe Hisaishi - Silence - YouTube
Old 20th September 2014
  #88
Here is a copy from the cubase project... with Ravenscroft. I have all mic positions on and tweaked things a bit.




http://adriaantaylor.com/files/ravenscroft.mp3
Old 10th October 2014
  #89
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Looks like I have a LOT of listening to do. Maybe you guys can help narrow it down? I'm after a piano mostly for jazz improv, but also some pop and alt rock. Aftertouch/release sounds are very important to me as is a naturally tight decay. Cheers
Old 11th October 2014
  #90
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syncussion's Avatar
 

Cool comparison!
But the Production Grand was put in a pretty bad light here.
It sounds MUCH better than in the video in real use. (found this thread through youtube)
The computer couldn't handle the load in real time causing delay in microphone perspectives.
And it's not a good mix of microphone perspectives, seemingly simply putting all perspectives at equal volume which gives a pretty bad sound.
Production Grand is capable of a great variety of sounds and has details unavailable in other libraries (like pre-attack).
Also worth noting is that it is a particularly dry sample library which benefits from additional reverb, something which was put on the CFX in this comparison for instance.
And lastly, the MIDI velocities seem like a bad match for the Production Grand, it is beeing played too loud with this MIDI.

I've downloaded the MIDI file and will do a proper render later (don't have time now).
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