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Nebula: is it any good? Equalizer Plugins
Old 18th March 2014
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
do what you like regarding your plan for nebula 4. But you cherry picked one post (responding to a trivial comment) out of a 9 page thread
Not in my opinion. Look just to be clear i am not here to offend anyone. I was searching for Nebula 4 and first thread on the first page where they mentioned N4 is short and developer said he can't disclose anything - which is fine with me.

I didn't tried to pick any kind of cherry - by some kind of inertion or something i jumped to that thread and i was reading it all the way to the bottom. OP doesn't seem like a novice, he isn't aggressive at all, from what i understand he did quite a lot of research before he even posted about issue.

Yet after he posted his detailed spec, even audio examples - all he got from main developer (i can point you) is - it's aliasing or it's your fault - because- surprise surprise - noone mentioned it before. Come on. Even most respected Nebula program developer confirmed it, some other people confirmed it and if you are not finding his attitude weird it's fine with me. But don't tell me that Zaphod comments about aliasing is something "insightful". From what i can see OP session is in 96khz range. Aliasing should be way bellow known treshold. If someone was insightful there then it's users like Cupwise.

Anyway or other i am not attacking anyone. It's just that from my experience in past, i can claim that dealing with people which have problems in accepting that they did something in the wrong way - is setting myself for a failure.

In short - what goes around - comes around. Really that simple.

And for sure in 2014 one can't say that every algorithmic plugin released at KVR is causing something weird to mixes. That's just plain bull***. Totally there.
Old 18th March 2014
  #92
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ultra171's Avatar
 

There was a lengthy discussion on AA forums with graphs on the all which showed how the aliasing pretty much disappears completely when switching even to 48kHz or and/or TIMED kernels.

Oh yeah, The Drum Compressor from CDS is sick!. Because the times are fixed, it can really do the compression it's supposed to. The FET comps sound nothing like I've ever heard ITB. Crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpod View Post
I still didn't get answer on Nebula 4. Anyone with any clue? Will it address inconvenient delay. Yes i am aware of XML tuning for less delay but i want even less delay..Can anyone point me to official Nebula 4 highlights...Zaphod?
The guys are super-secretive about it, apparently there will be some more info in a few weeks.. for FAIK now, the N4 should be out at the end of the year, so there's obviously some mad tweaking going on.
Old 18th March 2014
  #93
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpod View Post
Not in my opinion. Look just to be clear i am not here to offend anyone. I was searching for Nebula 4 and first thread on the first page where they mentioned N4 is short and developer said he can't disclose anything - which is fine with me.

I didn't tried to pick any kind of cherry - by some kind of inertion or something i jumped to that thread and i was reading it all the way to the bottom. OP doesn't seem like a novice, he isn't aggressive at all, from what i understand he did quite a lot of research before he even posted about issue.

Yet after he posted his detailed spec, even audio examples - all he got from main developer (i can point you) is - it's aliasing or it's your fault - because- surprise surprise - noone mentioned it before. Come on. Even most respected Nebula program developer confirmed it, some other people confirmed it and if you are not finding his attitude weird it's fine with me. But don't tell me that Zaphod comments about aliasing is something "insightful". From what i can see OP session is in 96khz range. Aliasing should be way bellow known treshold. If someone was insightful there then it's users like Cupwise.

Anyway or other i am not attacking anyone. It's just that from my experience in past, i can claim that dealing with people which have problems in accepting that they did something in the wrong way - is setting myself for a failure.

In short - what goes around - comes around. Really that simple.

And for sure in 2014 one can't say that every algorithmic plugin released at KVR is causing something weird to mixes. That's just plain bull***. Totally there.
Nebula can get artifacts and ailiasing - if its not used correctly. Did you read Giancarlos analogy of using Melodyne? The OP of that thread did find an issue - and many people explored it - that is how the nebula community is - people are calm and did explore. Cupwise found that if you change some settings in his program - the artifacts go away. Nebula is a complex technology that is used to cover lots of different styles of processing. It does sometimes have issues when it is used in certain ways.
Aliasing in Nebula may not be the same as other plugins due to the way the Nebula engine works.
Cupwise was able to repeat the issue on his program, but another user tried to repeat it on all of his other programs and could not.

Maybe you can understand, that if a person starts to believe the entire Nebula engine is faulty when you have designed it and its been used by many many people without problems like this - you might also react like Giancarlo does. The dynamic Volterra kernals model it runs on is very complicated. Dealing with people who get upset about a perceived problem when they dont fully understand must be hard. Even you are questioning Giancarlos words by stating how aliasing should be below a certain level when running at 96k - but do you really know how this technology works?

Your protests about his comment on most plugins released not sounding good...when you compare a stack of plugin processing to an analogue chain - you can understand what he is talking about. The application of processing with algorithmic plugins very rarely enhances the audio signal to my ears. At best they sound ok.
Old 18th March 2014
  #94
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
Nebula can get artifacts and ailiasing - if its not used correctly. Did you read Giancarlos analogy of using Melodyne? The OP of that thread did find an issue - and many people explored it - that is how the nebula community is - people are calm and did explore. Cupwise found that if you change some settings in his program - the artifacts go away. Nebula is a complex technology that is used to cover lots of different styles of processing. It does sometimes have issues when it is used in certain ways.
Aliasing in Nebula may not be the same as other plugins due to the way the Nebula engine works.
Cupwise was able to repeat the issue on his program, but another user tried to repeat it on all of his other programs and could not.

Maybe you can understand, that if a person starts to believe the entire Nebula engine is faulty when you have designed it and its been used by many many people without problems like this - you might also react like Giancarlo does. The dynamic Volterra kernals model it runs on is very complicated. Dealing with people who get upset about a perceived problem when they dont fully understand must be hard. Even you are questioning Giancarlos words by stating how aliasing should be below a certain level when running at 96k - but do you really know how this technology works?

Your protests about his comment on most plugins released not sounding good...when you compare a stack of plugin processing to an analogue chain - you can understand what he is talking about. The application of processing with algorithmic plugins very rarely enhances the audio signal to my ears. At best they sound ok.
This. Plus, your previous statement. It's very much cultural thing. Methinks it has to do with some deep differences regarding what consumers are... let's say "entitled to" or "responsible for" in different countries.
Old 19th March 2014
  #95
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MusicJesus's Avatar
 

Even though I have been highly critical of Nebula - I have to disagree strongly with anyone referring to them as arrogant or rude. Even when answering very pointed problems I brought up, they never came off as this way, or having anything but a helpful attitude.

I can't say the same for some of the other lameasses on here, but then, they aren't actually professionals.
Old 19th March 2014
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post

Maybe you can understand, that if a person starts to believe the entire Nebula engine is faulty when you have designed it and its been used by many many people without problems like this - you might also react like Giancarlo does. The dynamic Volterra kernals model it runs on is very complicated. Dealing with people who get upset about a perceived problem when they dont fully understand must be hard. Even you are questioning Giancarlos words by stating how aliasing should be below a certain level when running at 96k - but do you really know how this technology works?
Point taken. I do not know how his technology work and i see why he could react in the way he did. However more people confirmed issue so it's not "one guy" only. And if well known library developer confirm it i guess it's not isolated issue and should be investigated more. But that's just me and my opinion. Like i said when i look it from that perspective i think i see why he reacted that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
Your protests about his comment on most plugins released not sounding good...when you compare a stack of plugin processing to an analogue chain - you can understand what he is talking about. The application of processing with algorithmic plugins very rarely enhances the audio signal to my ears. At best they sound ok.
Oh no no no. Wait at second. At first let's make it clear. The fact that i am rich or poor and from which country i am coming from does not make a difference(not pointing this to you). This was totally ****** comment trying to marginalize Zaphod incident.

If you are a sort of well known developer and you are going to make a claim in 2014 that all plugins released are making garbage to tracks - for Christ sake go back up your arguments. Here i will quote him again - read it again and carefully - Each time a new plugin is announced on kvr I start testing it (hoping it is good in some way) and I discover after a while I'm adding garbage to my tracks, as long as the plugin count increases. I'm surprised few ones are speaking about this, because guys, I find it everywhere.

That is plain bull**. Total lie - literally

Example: I can easily add 20 tracks, 20 instances of Equilibrium with bell boost of +4db, i can then easily add another 20 instances with the same bell -4db, that is like 40 instances, i can then compare that mix steam with the original non processed with phase reversed and it will null. Telling me that 40 instances are doing exactly what they where advertised for (equalizing), not doing any garbage as plugin count increase. It's total lie what he claim above.

Anyway i see where this is going. I am not going to derail thread anymore. If you guys feel happy by listening and worshiping your developer with by your standards right attitude - be happy. I guess rest of the world is crazy. We are adding garbage to our tracks so be it..
Old 19th March 2014
  #97
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I can also be as critical as anyone else.

Personally ... I have zero interest in what any developer says or attitude displayed. I'm evaluating the product under consideration ... that is all that I'm looking/ listening too. If I feel a product can help me do a better job. then I consider purchasing. period.

As to sound quality or issues raised in questioning said quality ...

Name me one tool that cannot be mis-used. Algo plugins are not immune either.

As for this 'world ending' report on a Nebula preset ... something to keep in mind ... some Devs are pushing this Nebula technology to extremes. By expanding the 'boundaries' is what drives new innovation.

The concept of 'convolution' is not one that is typically connected to the process of 'compression' or 'limiting'. This is a much different operation than tracking a Preamp or equalizer ... or the common 'reverb'.

The people that use Nebula regularly will definitely question every library we have available. If a problem surfaces, these Devs put their heart and soul into these creations.

Nobody is 'drinking the kool-aid, or kissing some Devs butt ... Those are the type of comments that come from those that either don't use Nebula, or have a need to promote only what they use as the best their is. I don't know the reasoning ... and really, could care less. All my 'sonic' decisions are made in my mastering suite. After 30 years in the Profession and survived ... I can have an attitude if I want ... but I decide if something reaches my expectations.

When someone submits an 'issue', they should be the one to provide the proof analysis. I've read comments here that use a reversed logic, and want everyone else to supply proof to the contrary. If you have time for that, go ahead.

I think Nebula technology is still evolving. From discussions with the Devs there is a 'riding' awareness that computer horsepower is the throttle.
Ask anyone that has tried to string a chain of TIMED inserts into their project. You will hear a whimper that your 'super-computer' didn't even know it could make. There is a practicality that must be reckoned with.

Does this make Nebula bad, or a failure. If so, then to those who purchased a FairChild 660 and spend the fortune to maintain must surely be throwing money at a loser.
Old 19th March 2014
  #98
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norbury brook's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
Im trying to understand how the term arrogance has been applied to the developers of Nebula - because in all of my interactions since the beta days - they have seemed like the friendliest most humble group of people. Arrogance is defined as "offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride."

Then it has occurred to me - perhaps it is the nature of the AA business, alongside the language barrier, italian nature (vs american consumer culture) that has caused this perception.

Nebula has not been developed like a typical plugin business. It really was developed by Giancarlo as a way to try to get better sound for those who could not afford hardware. I remember even having to make a strong request publicly for Giancarlo to develop a Mac version - because in their eyes - Macs were higher cost computers and Nebula was for the broke PC guys who could not afford studios and hardware. But, because they are cool - they listened to the requests and in the end they made it for Mac also. In the early days it very much had a 'Robin Hood' take from the rich give to the poor style feel. As it gained popularity it sort of has grown into a business - but not in the most essential capitalist way. That is why some people who expect anything to be milked for every last drip of that capitalist dollar - might be confused by AA. Even they have said for a while their instructions and website were not ideal and they didnt even want to hugely encourage users to join because for a time it was a developing technology, and they had limited support resources - that they were letting others get in on. People could use this technology but at the cost of time, CPU, workflow etc. The actual money cost tho was always low considering what you got. It was sometimes a frustrating club to be a member of - but a friendly one - because people were always keep to help out and generally just pleased you can get a program for an API 5500 which was indistinguishable from the hardware unit - for €20. I know for a lot of guys in the early days c2008 it was the first time they heard a really nice quality EQ or reverb not from the hardware which they could never afford - but from a Nebula program.

The only problems with support I ever see, is when the support or developers missed a post asking for help and someone does not know whats going on, but as soon as they see - they get a reply. Ok sometimes the organisation structures left a bit to be desired - but for me because the costs were low and technology advanced - I thought it was an amusing idiosyncrasy. Now perhaps from a raw consumer standpoint - it might be seen as arrogant if a group of people set up their business and dont trip over themselves to make the perfect consumer experience and make themselves slaves to the bottom line - but sometimes there is more going on in life than making the maximum - and instead building and doing things your own way to your own set of principals.

Now they are putting proper time into the business and tidying up some of these aspects, quicker automated licenses, support tickets etc. They do listen and I hope people are pleasantly surprised by the new releases...
I would agree 100% with all that, and add it's been my experience too.



MC
Old 19th March 2014
  #99
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Ok so this is weird. I'm migrating to ml on a snow lep/Mountain lion partition and upgrading everything to 64 bit as all my plugs are now 64bit so it's time.
Logged into my dashboard, downloaded the installers, ran them, nothing - won't show up in live 9 nor logic x - no idea and this is where it's a little frustrating. Has aanyone else experienced this upgrading to 64 bit?
Old 19th March 2014
  #100
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andiw's Avatar
 

On Mac only VST(Cubase, Reaper, Studio One) is 64bit, AU (Logic, Live) is still 32bit.
Old 19th March 2014
  #101
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Thanks but live can use both vst and au and I have a wrapper as well but it's not showing up. One thing that I'm not sure on is the .ser file. As I'm updating after a hdd crash I'm pretty sure I might need a new .ser file., then again I read that the whole dashboard was to get rid of later activation but on the dashboard it reads like you still need authorisation...
Old 19th March 2014
  #102
Gear Nut
 
arnew's Avatar
I find Acustica - Audio`s new 4 band Trinity EQ very promising after a day of testing. I am tempted to like it :-)

The forthcoming Cooltek EQP1 V2 might be worth a consideration as well. Is this Nebula? Yes it is. Cool interface, very vintage sounding and with multiband GUI beautifully made by CDSOUNDMASTER




Also, the AlexB MFC console is absolutely in a different league compared to other console emulations. I guess MFC is an emulation of the NEVE 88RS console. I`ve heard he is also working on the EQ from 88RS - soon to be released....hopefully!

Last edited by arnew; 19th March 2014 at 01:07 PM.. Reason: Adding info
Old 19th March 2014
  #103
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kai handberg's Avatar
Got Trinity yesterday. After 3-4 hours use; I like it. The UI is sorta awful, but it sounds pretty good.
Old 19th March 2014
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai handberg View Post
Got Trinity yesterday. After 3-4 hours use; I like it. The UI is sorta awful, but it sounds pretty good.
Chuckles candy comes to mind when I look at those knobs!
Old 19th March 2014
  #105
Quote:
Originally Posted by kai handberg View Post
Got Trinity yesterday. After 3-4 hours use; I like it. The UI is sorta awful, but it sounds pretty good.
yes - an EQ in the box you can boost and it sounds good
Old 19th March 2014
  #106
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junior's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogma View Post
Ok so this is weird. I'm migrating to ml on a snow lep/Mountain lion partition and upgrading everything to 64 bit as all my plugs are now 64bit so it's time.
Logged into my dashboard, downloaded the installers, ran them, nothing - won't show up in live 9 nor logic x - no idea and this is where it's a little frustrating. Has aanyone else experienced this upgrading to 64 bit?
Could it be installing to the wrong path? Just a thought… Good luck.
Old 20th March 2014
  #107
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ultra171's Avatar
 

BTW, nobody's stopping of using the CDSM TDC on the master buss.. there's probably some settings there that will suit the master. The FET adds saturation, balls and clarity like you wouldn't believe, stuff like Softube has nothing on this (as much as I enjoy their plugins), not even close. Amazing sound.

Probably the best sound compressor I've tried yet when you get it right.
Old 20th March 2014
  #108
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultra171 View Post
BTW, nobody's stopping of using the CDSM TDC on the master buss.. there's probably some settings there that will suit the master. The FET adds saturation, balls and clarity like you wouldn't believe, stuff like Softube has nothing on this (as much as I enjoy their plugins), not even close. Amazing sound.

Probably the best sound compressor I've tried yet when you get it right.
yes it has real tone to the signal not like any other plugin Ive heard. However I do find there are just so many programs and the organisation its strange...and its not always easy to find the right program for the source...
Old 20th March 2014
  #109
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Genuine yet sincere question : I don't own Nebula yet but keep reading about the complexity of setting it to sound at its best. So, how tedious it to set it to get the most out of hmm lets say AlexB's MFC programs ?
Besides, if Nebula 4 is around the corner, wil it be a paiying update ?
Sorry for the noob questions and thanks !
Cheers !
Old 20th March 2014
  #110
Gear Maniac
 
kai handberg's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
yes it has real tone to the signal not like any other plugin Ive heard. However I do find there are just so many programs and the organisation its strange...and its not always easy to find the right program for the source...
I agree, its tedious and confusing, but much of the blame lies in Nebula's horrible preset management.
Old 20th March 2014
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nil hartman View Post
Genuine yet sincere question : I don't own Nebula yet but keep reading about the complexity of setting it to sound at its best. So, how tedious it to set it to get the most out of hmm lets say AlexB's MFC programs ?
Besides, if Nebula 4 is around the corner, wil it be a paiying update ?
Sorry for the noob questions and thanks !
Cheers !
Don't know about the update, I'm guessing it won't be released for months??
MFC is a simple setup but there are settings & tweaks with Nebula that you need to be aware of that aren't always made clear.

MFC from the manual;

Modern Flaghship Console reproduces the sound of classic recording console using a library programs consisting of channels input, group bus and mixbus. To faithfully reproduce into the DAW the analog console signal chain and workflow, we recommend using the Modern Flagship Console in one of two following session setup configurations.

1. As a virtual summing box : Input Channel is inserted on the last insert of the DAW audio tracks, like a direct out routed to an summing box. The MixBus is placed on the first insert of the master track, just as the stereo return would be routed from the analog console back to the DAW.

2. To simulate a console : Input Channel is inserted on the first insert of the DAW audio tracks, the MixBus is placed on the last insert of the master track. If you group channels in your DAW, i.e. drums elements, you can insert the GroupBus as last insert in the submix group bus to achieve the classic bus coloration.

I'd suggest reading manuals & visit the forum to get sense of
what's up.
Old 20th March 2014
  #112
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Thanks Telluride for your answer. Sorry I wasn't clear enough, I was thinking more about the DSP part, with TIME Kernel mode, .xml editing and such. I demoed Neb a while ago, and gave up also because of the different possible settings and (back then) lack of consensus on that matter. Reading recent Neb thread here on GS doesn't always help
Old 21st March 2014
  #113
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nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultra171 View Post
BTW, nobody's stopping of using the CDSM TDC on the master buss.. there's probably some settings there that will suit the master. The FET adds saturation, balls and clarity like you wouldn't believe, stuff like Softube has nothing on this (as much as I enjoy their plugins), not even close. Amazing sound.

Probably the best sound compressor I've tried yet when you get it right.
Yea but what is it? Hardware?
Old 21st March 2014
  #114
Gear Nut
 
arnew's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelironsteel View Post
Yea but what is it? Hardware?
CD SOUNDMASTER "THE DRUM COMPRESSOR"
It is a Nebula library made by CDSOUNDMASTER
Old 22nd March 2014
  #115
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Benprogfuse's Avatar
Does the Nebula Fee version allow for importing Impulses?
Old 22nd March 2014
  #116
Gear Maniac
 
marcpl's Avatar
 

no version of nebula can import impulses. nebula only works with nebula program files (.n2p) and their corresponding vector files (.n2v).

regards,
marco
Old 22nd March 2014
  #117
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junior's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benprogfuse View Post
Does the Nebula Fee version allow for importing Impulses?
Marcpl is right. However, a few third-party developers do offer demos of their libraries that'll work with Nebula Free. I can't remember off hand, but you may want to start here:

Cupwise
http://www.cupwise.com/cup/

CDSM
CDSoundMaster Audio Software

Good luck!
Old 22nd March 2014
  #118
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..and here's a great resource for Nebula programs

Nebula Universal Program Explorer
Old 22nd March 2014
  #119
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junior's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by telluride View Post
..and here's a great resource for Nebula programs

Nebula Universal Program Explorer
Good call. Just wish there was a column for demos...
Old 22nd March 2014
  #120
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nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnew View Post
CD SOUNDMASTER "THE DRUM COMPRESSOR"
It is a Nebula library made by CDSOUNDMASTER
What hardware does it capture?
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