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Metric Halo announces new technologies and upgrade path Audio Interfaces
Old 16th September 2014
  #211
Quote:
Originally Posted by mh_bj View Post
Where is the contradiction? I said that USB2 is the baseline and that we were not ruling out USB3 at all or for any specific product. We have determined that we can provide USB3 for the 3d Upgrade, so we are doing that. It still has USB2 class audio support. But with custom drivers we can support the full-channel count of MHLink…

Hope that this clears it up...
Great stuff in that case!
Old 16th September 2014
  #212
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hank alrich View Post
Metric Halo does not provide schedules for upgrade developments or deliveries, and for very good reasons: they don't talk about stuff that isn't yet fully operational, at least in their own development labs, and they release stuff that works because instead of releasing a product to meet an upgrade schedule they bring it to market when it works like it's supposed to work
Which makes it difficult to take advantage of the current sale, without knowing what and how I might sometime in the future actually use my purchase.

And without a sale when ever PC support is released, it makes it difficult to actually buy into MH, as the prices are much higher regarding the knowledge of the current sale prices.

So, in order for MH to gain customers, it wouldn't be too bad to provide SOME insights what a PC user most possibly get somewhere when he now buys an interface.
Old 16th September 2014
  #213
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I can understand marketing, but it seems to me there will be a lot more units sold if there was a sale when the 3d cards come out (with it installed already in the new units).
At least from a consumer and convenience standpoint this would make a lot more sense, and avoid an unnecessary transaction in the future.

Is this an attempt to try to sell as many of the old stock?
Old 16th September 2014
  #214
lxm
Gear Addict
 

Defiantly too much money IMO. The upgrade dosent make sense financially. Its puzzling to me why a company would not make drivers to begin with. Or now! Just make a Windows firewire driver to not lose countless customers who like a Windows machine. Frustrating
Old 17th September 2014
  #215
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Sanchez's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Is this an attempt to try to sell as many of the old stock?
Of course! Win-win situation, they shift more stock of the current model and you get a great deal plus immediate use. There are no 'perfect' answers to keep upgraders, new customers AND the business happy in this kind of situation and IMHO this is about as practical as you can get. Of course rolling out the Windows driver ahead of the new hardware would probably net them more immediate sales but I'm sure there's a reason why they don't/can't. MH are smart, pragmatic and integrated ie hardware dept. isn't a slave to the marketing and sales dept. and for that we should be thankful.Yes you might have to wait a little for info/release but as someone said, when it comes to market you can be sure it'll be ready and will still be working/supported a decade later. Can ANY other company say that in the PC-based music tech world?
Old 17th September 2014
  #216
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Love all the second guessers and hand wringers <DELETED BY MODERATORS>. If you can't look at what this company has done with it's products over the last 15 years and buy in, go see what Apogee is churning this year and let me know how that Ensemble used sale is going. While your buying your new device that will be obsolete in a few years, I'll be upgrading one of the ones I've had for 8 years.
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Old 17th September 2014
  #217
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+1
Old 17th September 2014
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swafford View Post
Love all the second guessers and hand wringers - you people are pathetic. If you can't look at what this company has done with it's products over the last 15 years and buy in, go see what Apogee is churning this year and let me know how that Ensemble used sale is going. While your buying your new device that will be obsolete in a few years, I'll be upgrading one of the ones I've had for 8 years.
Using RME Digifaces since 12 years or so. Some months ago they releases the new TotalMix Fx GUI for these old things...

Nobody doubt MH past, but do you have experience with their PC platform support...?

I just want to know which software will be available and how it's supposed to work (ASIO multiclient or not, ConsoleConnect VST2/3 x32/64), and wether the ULN-2 3d will support adat smux (audio and clock), as the 2d seems to only support clock @ 96Khz, but no audio (4ch I/O @ 96Khz, afaik

As soon as I get an official statement I'm ready to buy...
Old 18th September 2014
  #219
Not hardware related, but I just noticed MH quietly updated the production bundle to v2, including VST for Mac and Win, and a new delay plugin. Lots of GUI improvements too!
Old 19th September 2014
  #220
Quote:
Originally Posted by method1 View Post
Not hardware related, but I just noticed MH quietly updated the production bundle to v2, including VST for Mac and Win, and a new delay plugin. Lots of GUI improvements too!
And it's a free update!
Old 19th September 2014
  #221
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junior's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by method1 View Post
Not hardware related, but I just noticed MH quietly updated the production bundle to v2, including VST for Mac and Win, and a new delay plugin. Lots of GUI improvements too!
They're starting to step it up!
Old 19th September 2014
  #222
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Yea, the new plugin looks nice
Old 19th September 2014
  #223
Windows VST performance is as good as the AAX i.e. great performance, light and stable. Awesome news!
Old 19th September 2014
  #224
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MoTech's Avatar
 

2d vs software plugins

Anybody knows how MH built-in specialized 2d semi-hardware effects compare to their full-software-based equivalents. I.e. the Production Bundle? 2d vs AU/VST/AAX versions of similar-purpose plugins.

For my ear it seems the internal MH's 80bit processor renders sonically better (or say more ear-pleasing) results than the in-computer plugins that run off from computer's CPU, but I haven't done any direct comparison.

Anyone done any more detailed research on this?


In this light I'm also wondering how the new 3d will work and will it have it's own specialized processor in hardware or will it be more computer-CPU dependent software cheat?
Old 19th September 2014
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoTech View Post
For my ear it seems the internal MH's 80bit processor renders sonically better (or say more ear-pleasing) results than the in-computer plugins that run off from computer's CPU, but I haven't done any direct comparison.

Anyone done any more detailed research on this
I also wonder the same thing.
I might send them and email and ask, because MIO mixer plugins that run on DSP sound smoother to me as well. Something like, There's more
Detail, more focused sound.
Old 21st September 2014
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lxm View Post
Good to know I'm pathetic. Thanks for the life lesson.
Well, Swafford is correct - blunt, and brutally honest - but essentially correct. If you do just a little bit of research, you will discover that your purchases of MH products are really lifetime investments. MH is not bulls**ting when they say "future proof". They do not abandon their customers or their products. My ULN8 and ULN2 are the wisest investments I ever made for my studio...period. Plus, their units are absolutely the best sounding and most flexible interfaces I have ever used. Sorry to sound like a fanboy, but it's hard not to be
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Old 22nd September 2014
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lxm View Post
Defiantly too much money IMO. The upgrade dosent make sense financially. Its puzzling to me why a company would not make drivers to begin with. Or now! Just make a Windows firewire driver to not lose countless customers who like a Windows machine. Frustrating
Nope. Here is your post above. "too much money", "doesn't make sense financially", "why a company would not make drivers to begin with. Or now!" "Frustrating".

I'd say swafford is correct. The above quotes speak for themselves.
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Old 22nd September 2014
  #228
Quote:
Originally Posted by planck View Post
I also wonder the same thing.
I might send them and email and ask, because MIO mixer plugins that run on DSP sound smoother to me as well. Something like, There's more
Detail, more focused sound.
Would love to know what MH has to say about this.
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Old 23rd September 2014
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planck View Post
I also wonder the same thing.
I might send them and email and ask, because MIO mixer plugins that run on DSP sound smoother to me as well. Something like, There's more
Detail, more focused sound.
Per end user emails, the +DSP plugs are getting a makeover and the new delay will be added to the +DSP suite when the new 3D card ships. The reason being the 3D card has on the tons more processing power.

The +DSP plugs have lot's more head room in the 80 bit environment. I don't think MH has ever acknowledge beyond head nodding to a lot of end users who have felt the MIO console sounds better and it's easier to pull mixes together faster. Personally, though I have moved away mixing in it back to Logic because it's less time consuming with the box routing and +DSP limitations, I think it does also.

With the new card, the fairly recent I/O plug (love that one, what a time saver in console set ups) maybe it's time to move back into the MIO for mixing.
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Old 23rd September 2014
  #230
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MoTech's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by swafford View Post
Per end user emails, the +DSP plugs are getting a makeover and the new delay will be added to the +DSP suite when the new 3D card ships. The reason being the 3D card has on the tons more processing power.

The +DSP plugs have lot's more head room in the 80 bit environment. I don't think MH has ever acknowledge beyond head nodding to a lot of end users who have felt the MIO console sounds better and it's easier to pull mixes together faster. Personally, though I have moved away mixing in it back to Logic because it's less time consuming with the box routing and +DSP limitations, I think it does also.

With the new card, the fairly recent I/O plug (love that one, what a time saver in console set ups) maybe it's time to move back into the MIO for mixing.
Sounds cool and looking forward to this. Future Proof indeed. I guess this is why the current +DSP package price is reduced to $400 now, vs $550-600 it normally costs.

Do you know if the coming new +DSP plugin versions will work with the old 2D card?

I hope they work, at least in smaller numbers (due to 2D's less processing power vs 3D). I'm thinking on upgrading with the new +DSP software if it works with my current 2D.

Being happy with the old 2D and I don't use tonz of plugins per track anyways so I don't want or need to buy 3D card yet, maybe in a couple of years. As said, the +DSP plugins just sound fantastic and per average sonically definitely beat any conventional software plugin to my ears. In this sense I'm really looking forward to the new coming +DSP package.
Old 30th September 2014
  #231
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Just ordered a 2882 and will likely order the +DSP package this week too. Super excited for all of this!
Old 23rd October 2014
  #232
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Rumi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoTech View Post
For my ear it seems the internal MH's 80bit processor renders sonically better (or say more ear-pleasing) results than the in-computer plugins that run off from computer's CPU, but I haven't done any direct comparison.

Anyone done any more detailed research on this?
To my ears, summing in the MIO mixer sounds quite a bit better than Logic Pro, and also Reaper. I have made quite some direct comparison files that I might upload to gearslutz one day, if I find the time.
It's another cloudy and fake sounding layer taken off the signal.

To me it's definitely worth it to sum everything in the MIO mixer. It's actually the main reason to keep an MH box for me. I have better converters and better mic pres than the ULN-8, but the MH summing is just great (and you can of course use a 2882 for the summing, you don't need the more expensive ULN-8).

I don't have that much experience with the MH plugins.
Old 23rd October 2014
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumi View Post
To my ears, summing in the MIO mixer sounds quite a bit better than Logic Pro, and also Reaper. I have made quite some direct comparison files that I might upload to gearslutz one day, if I find the time.
It's another cloudy and fake sounding layer taken off the signal.
Yeah I started doing this this week. It's so much clearer and tighter than the pro tools summing it's kind of crazy. Everything seems wider too. Do you run everything out individually or just stems? I'm doing stems at the moment and using the plugs in mio console, then recording the mixdown with the record panel.
Old 23rd October 2014
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty_Zoltan View Post
Yeah I started doing this this week. It's so much clearer and tighter than the pro tools summing it's kind of crazy. Everything seems wider too. Do you run everything out individually or just stems? I'm doing stems at the moment and using the plugs in mio console, then recording the mixdown with the record panel.
I do stems, though since I often mix rather minimalistic aucoustic music, there are often not much more than 8 channels (then again, I often use multiple mics). Even with stems the benefit is clear.
Of course you could sum single channels in pairs of 8, and then sum those sums. Or use multiple boxes. But even thogh I have a ULN-8 and a 2882, I've never used them both together for summing so far. 8 channels seems enough for me.

It simply sounds more real. Dynamics are better, and the instruments are more "here", playing to you directly and more lively. Really like a fog or an artificial coating having been removed.
Old 23rd October 2014
  #235
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Mighty_Zoltan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumi View Post
It simply sounds more real. Dynamics are better, and the instruments are more "here", playing to you directly and more lively. Really like a fog or an artificial coating having been removed.
Yeah it does, it really sounds way more punchy, separated and like you say "here".
Old 23rd October 2014
  #236
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Rumi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty_Zoltan View Post
Yeah it does, it really sounds way more punchy, separated and like you say "here".
Yes, the separation you mention is a good point - it's more separated, and at the same time the instruments seem to "talk with each other" more, it's more lively, there seems to be more interaction between the instruments. In comparison, the DAW sums are flatter (both dynamically and spatially) and more "frequencies of instruments" instead of instruments, especially in Logic.

Okay, I'll stop now!
Old 23rd October 2014
  #237
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Stiz's Avatar
 

I've heard several times before, that summing in the MIO Console sounds better than summing in a DAW.
I can't test it as I have no MH Interface at home (maybe in the future).
But if this is the case, whats the reason for it?
I thought a digital addition is a very simple operation and should be equal in different environments.
The only difference I can think of is that the 80 bit depth in the MH Interfaces cause less rounding errors.
Can someone explain this? Maybe BJ?
Old 23rd October 2014
  #238
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Im not going to embarrass myself here but I do remember that the 80bit thing is a marketing more than a technical one. I think it uses a 64 bit max process and the rest of the bits are there as headroom but never used.
Old 26th October 2014
  #239
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MoTech's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogma View Post
Im not going to embarrass myself here but I do remember that the 80bit thing is a marketing more than a technical one. I think it uses a 64 bit max process and the rest of the bits are there as headroom but never used.
As I understand it for single channel this is true, but they are used if you use MIO mixer in larger form - mix through MIOs multiple channels and then makes difference in accumulation precision - those bits are used for extra precision which is around double precision of most other accumulation standards as I understand it. So in mixing-through-MIO terms they are used.

MH 80 bit SHARC engine info:

"This is a 40 bit floating point processor which can also do 32 bit fixed point with 80 bit accumulation. For large MAC (multiply accumulate) loops, like summing in a large mixer, wide fixed point processing can provide better results, but for most applications, wide floating point is the way to go.

The nice thing about the SHARC is it gives you the freedom to use the best arithmetic system for a given processing application."
Old 26th October 2014
  #240
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At no point is there any 80 bit processing - in any real meaningful sense.
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