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Metric Halo announces new technologies and upgrade path Audio Interfaces
Old 31st August 2014
  #181
lxm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz View Post
Windows is coming. I don't think you have to convert to a Hackintosh, but a Mac Mini or something similar might work out for a while in the meantime (I found a Mac Pro 1,1 in a recycle bin that is working out quite well for me, although it doesn't run the latest OS. Can't beat the price!).

It depends on what you want to do with it, for simple capture and basic mixing, etc., you don't need a very powerful machine. For lots of VIs, well, I don't do that myself, but I would imagine it might be a bit pricier.

We're all waiting on the edge of our seats for the new cards! It would be great if BJ could give us an update.

Edwin
I use ALOT of VI's. My sessions are huge. Yikes. This is a bit of a nightmare for me I emailed support. No timeline for release.
Old 1st September 2014
  #182
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Sanchez's Avatar
You don't live in one of those countries where you have a 30-day return policy? We're sooooo far from that in Japan, I can't even imagine what it's like to basically try-before-you-buy.
If not maybe have a chat with your vendor, at least try get a credit note if they won't go the full refund. If it's unopened I'm sure you can move it at very minimal loss, no?
Old 1st September 2014
  #183
Or if you could just continue what you are doing now until the new cards come out. Hopefully it will be out by the end of the year and in the long run, that's not a crazy amount of time. But sorry for your situation. It's too bad to have such a great sounding unit in your hands and not being able to use it. Is VEP cross platform? If so, you could use VEP to run the VIS on a Windows machine and get a very basic mac for audio I/O, etc. Just guessing here, as I have no experience with it.
Old 1st September 2014
  #184
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Musician's Avatar
MH should update us with some schedule on the roll out of the upgrade. We are kept in the dark.
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Old 1st September 2014
  #185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
MH should update us with some schedule on the roll out of the upgrade. We are kept in the dark.

I agree, it would be nice for them to give us an update, but on the other hand, if they do that, then they might be stuck being held to what people infer to be promises that they can't keep and then the negative energy spirals out of control. So many companies run into trouble with this, so I have to respect their desire to keep things under wraps until it's delivered.

I'm sure they're not slacking.
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Old 1st September 2014
  #186
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I watched that kinda awkward tech talk with the German Fella and they said by the end of the year. It was a working concept when they announced it and I belive that included the 3D card or whatever they call it.
By the end of the year. After that ill get a bit toey
Old 2nd September 2014
  #187
lxm
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz View Post
Or if you could just continue what you are doing now until the new cards come out. Hopefully it will be out by the end of the year and in the long run, that's not a crazy amount of time. But sorry for your situation. It's too bad to have such a great sounding unit in your hands and not being able to use it. Is VEP cross platform? If so, you could use VEP to run the VIS on a Windows machine and get a very basic mac for audio I/O, etc. Just guessing here, as I have no experience with it.
Its nobodys fault but my own but thanks I have decided im going to just build a hackintosh 8 core monster. My i7 950 is getting a little long in the tooth anyway. The ol pocket book is not happy to say the least but so is life.
Old 2nd September 2014
  #188
Quote:
Originally Posted by lxm View Post
Its nobodys fault but my own but thanks I have decided im going to just build a hackintosh 8 core monster. My i7 950 is getting a little long in the tooth anyway. The ol pocket book is not happy to say the least but so is life.
I'd love to hear how that goes! My Mac Pro 1,1 is a bit long in the tooth, as well.
Old 2nd September 2014
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lxm View Post
just build a hackintosh 8 core monster.
LOL. Advise you buy a used i7 Mac Mini to work with until Windows support comes and then sell the mini for little if any loss...
Old 2nd September 2014
  #190
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zephonic's Avatar
I kind of wonder if MH is in trouble or something? It's not like them to be this far behind the curve.
Old 3rd September 2014
  #191
Here for the gear
 

I'm using a legacy 2882 at the moment and was looking at getting a 2d card, then I saw this thread.
Am I right in thinking I could upgrade straight to the new release like I would of done with the 2d card?
Old 3rd September 2014
  #192
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Sanchez's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
I kind of wonder if MH is in trouble or something? It's not like them to be this far behind the curve.
I very much doubt it, they seem to be going from strength to strength and AFAIK just moved to a larger facility. Good things take time and as someone said they mentined by the end of the year, still 4 months left.

Bounty I'd just drop them a line and ask. It's not like it's under wraps or anything, we know what it basically is, it's just a matter of waiting for the thing to appear.
Old 5th September 2014
  #193
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Am waiting patiently for this. Was about to go for a ULN-8 but will probably wait until news on their new products firms up!
Old 13th September 2014
  #194
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junior's Avatar
 

Was just checking my email and saw this:

Quote:
The Best Interfaces on the market are about to get better...
You may have heard about the upgrade we announced at Musikmesse, and are wondering if it would be better to wait until the upgrade is released.

Metric Halo is currently finalizing the implementation of our next generation of core digital interfacing technologies called the 3d Card. The 3d Card will be available as an upgrade for all Mobile I/O, ULN and LIO devices.

The 3d Card upgrade includes the ultra-low latency MHLink Gigabit Ethernet based box-healing backplane, which allows you to interact with multiple boxes as if they were one.

The upgrade provides significantly more DSP power and a massive increase in available memory for more delays, reverbs and processing in general. Finally, the upgrade transitions the hardware’s computer interface to USB3 (and USB2) for future-proof, high-bandwidth and class-compliant connectivity to your computer and other USB Audio hosts.

There’s No Reason To Wait...
While we are still hard at work putting the finishing touches on the 3d Card, we are pleased to announce that any Metric Halo Hardware product purchased after March 2014 is eligible for a discounted upgrade for only $99 when the 3d Card upgrade ships.

For units purchased before March 2014, the MSRP for the 3d Card upgrade will be $599.

Save Now, Upgrade Later
All units purchased now are upgradable with the 3d Card, and a unit purchased today + the upgrade when it becomes available will cost less than a new unit purchased later — and you will have the benefit of being able to use your interface right away.
Looks like we're getting closer…
Old 13th September 2014
  #195
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior View Post
Was just checking my email and saw this:



Looks like we're getting closer…
Closer is good news, but that price, ouch...

I only got into MH gear post-2d card, can anyone comment as to what that upgrade cost looked like back then? Curious if I just have unrealistic expectations on the price or if it really is as high as it feels. Not that I'm not into it, of course. USB3, inter-box routing and linking with Ethernet and upgraded DSP all sound fantastic and make it worth my while to stay in Metric Halo-ville!
Old 13th September 2014
  #196
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulrk View Post
Closer is good news, but that price, ouch...

I only got into MH gear post-2d card, can anyone comment as to what that upgrade cost looked like back then? Curious if I just have unrealistic expectations on the price or if it really is as high as it feels. Not that I'm not into it, of course. USB3, inter-box routing and linking with Ethernet and upgraded DSP all sound fantastic and make it worth my while to stay in Metric Halo-ville!
I feel your pain. That's a tough price for me as well. There are some dealers who I expect will have it for less than the full MSRP.

The 2d card for the 2882 was $400 (I bought two of them) and for the ULN-2 it was $550.

I'm wondering how two LIO-8s, one upgraded and one not, will work together. Will I need to upgrade both boxes or can I stagger it? Hm.
Old 13th September 2014
  #197
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Yeah, six bills seems a little steep. But, I guess it's a big upgrade. According to MH's website, the field install 2D upgrade was $329 (for the 2882) and $439 (for the ULN-2.) I wonder if the 3D field install will have a different price for the 2882 as opposed to the ULN-2? And, what about all the other models?

https://www.mhsecure.com/mhdirect/home.php?cat=258

Last edited by junior; 13th September 2014 at 05:24 AM.. Reason: Added link
Old 13th September 2014
  #198
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior View Post
Yeah, six bills seems a little steep. But, I guess it's a big upgrade. According to MH's website, the field install 2D upgrade was $329 (for the 2882) and $439 (for the ULN-2.) I wonder if the 3D field install will have a different price for the 2882 as opposed to the ULN-2? And, what about all the other models?

https://www.mhsecure.com/mhdirect/home.php?cat=258
Good question. Maybe this is somewhat related to different boards interconnecting to the motherboards in different fashions? The MH references to First, Second, Third Generations would seem to indicate relatively major changes so maybe this translates to the #d boards also?

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz View Post
I feel your pain. That's a tough price for me as well. There are some dealers who I expect will have it for less than the full MSRP.

The 2d card for the 2882 was $400 (I bought two of them) and for the ULN-2 it was $550.

I'm wondering how two LIO-8s, one upgraded and one not, will work together. Will I need to upgrade both boxes or can I stagger it? Hm.
Ooh that would be neat. Hoping for that as well. Would be great if the upgrade is in keeping with apparent MH tradition and is field-upgradeable!

My assumption is that the only way to make an upgraded and non-upgraded box work together is via a Core Audio aggregate device, and obviously nobody can say yet if that will work. I feel like I recall MH folks saying the 3d card will remove FireWire capability?

EDIT: Oh, duh, you will likely be able to just dump one LIO's AES outputs into the other's inputs! One would hope the new MIO console will support 2d and 3d boxes both. Or maybe you'll be able to run both software versions?
Old 13th September 2014
  #199
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Quote:
Finally, the upgrade transitions the hardware’s computer interface to USB3 (and USB2) for future-proof, high-bandwidth and class-compliant connectivity to your computer and other USB Audio hosts.
I find this the most remarkable bit, a Mac-centric company like MH opting out of ThB and going straight for USB3. Wise move, probably.
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Old 13th September 2014
  #200
Strange, all the talk was originally about usb2 and why they had chosen not to use USB 3... I wonder what they actually mean by usb3 in this context?

BJ's earlier post on the topic:

The USB 2 is what we consider to be the baseline for the upgrade and future products. There are a few important points as to why we choose USB2 as the baseline:

1) Every single device you would want to use these with supports USB2 and USB2
Class audio.
2) Neither USB 3 nor Thunderbolt have class implementations for audio - so that
means that custom drivers are required, and for the platforms that do not
support custom drivers, that means that you simply cannot interoperate.
3) We have been able to implement an exceptionally capable transport layer on top
of USB2; we can do 96 channels in and out at 48k (192 channels total) which
far exceeds the needs of most of our customers.
4) We have this all working now.
Old 13th September 2014
  #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by method1 View Post
Strange, all the talk was originally about usb2 and why they had chosen not to use USB 3... I wonder what they actually mean by usb3 in this context?

BJ's earlier post on the topic:

The USB 2 is what we consider to be the baseline for the upgrade and future products. There are a few important points as to why we choose USB2 as the baseline:

1) Every single device you would want to use these with supports USB2 and USB2
Class audio.
2) Neither USB 3 nor Thunderbolt have class implementations for audio - so that
means that custom drivers are required, and for the platforms that do not
support custom drivers, that means that you simply cannot interoperate.
3) We have been able to implement an exceptionally capable transport layer on top
of USB2; we can do 96 channels in and out at 48k (192 channels total) which
far exceeds the needs of most of our customers.
4) We have this all working now.
I dunno, makes sense to me. I think the key term is 'future-proof'… but, what do I know?
Old 13th September 2014
  #202
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior View Post
I dunno, makes sense to me. I think the key term is 'future-proof'… but, what do I know?
What I don't get is the contradiction between the newsletter stating that the upgrade is usb3 when BJ had previously gone to great lengths explaining that it is usb2.
Old 15th September 2014
  #203
Just saw these - a lot of similarities between the new motu and forthcoming MH stuff! Ethernet, MIO-esque mixer, usb2 class complaince as well as thunderbolt, multiple device options with a 16/16 interface too!

MOTU.com - Products
Old 15th September 2014
  #204
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
I find this the most remarkable bit, a Mac-centric company like MH opting out of ThB and going straight for USB3. Wise move, probably.
The future formerly Mac-centric company! I would imagine they will be able to ramp up production considerably.
Old 15th September 2014
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by method1 View Post
What I don't get is the contradiction between the newsletter stating that the upgrade is usb3 when BJ had previously gone to great lengths explaining that it is usb2.
Where is the contradiction? I said that USB2 is the baseline and that we were not ruling out USB3 at all or for any specific product. We have determined that we can provide USB3 for the 3d Upgrade, so we are doing that. It still has USB2 class audio support. But with custom drivers we can support the full-channel count of MHLink…

Hope that this clears it up...
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Old 15th September 2014
  #206
Gear Head
 

Hello B.J.,

I am a PC user and interested in buying a ULN-2 in order to upgrade to 3d, but don't want to buy into speculation and promises. So, concerning your current sale:

Can you anyhow detail what PC support will definitely mean? ASIO drivers? Multiclient ASIO drivers? Changing SR, Buffersize, Clock source on the fly, as with RME drivers? Will there be a PC ConsoleConnect Plugin? Which format? VST2/VST3/Rack Extension, x32/x64?

1) Does the ADAT I/O support SMUX audio and clocking? Your official webpage/documentation say it doesn’t, the german support (Stephan Bahr) says it does. What is true? Can I run 4 ADAT ch @ 96KHz and clock my HDSP Digiface via ADAT and clock the ULN-2 via ADAT from the RME HDSP ADAT @ 96KHz?
2) can the 3d upgraded ULN-2 be bus powered via USB3, or is external power supply obligatory?
3) will the PC ConsoleConnect Plugin work without the ULN-2 ASIO driver being used by the hosting DAW? (the ULN-2 connected via ADAT to the HDSP Digiface, with anothher devices ASIO driver used by the host DAW and the ULN-2 recalled via ConsoleConnect)
4) does the Production Bundle contain 3d board plugins only, or does it contain native PC VST/Mac AU plugins?

Thanks for answering.
Old 15th September 2014
  #207
Quote:
Originally Posted by mh_bj View Post
Where is the contradiction? I said that USB2 is the baseline and that we were not ruling out USB3 at all or for any specific product. We have determined that we can provide USB3 for the 3d Upgrade, so we are doing that. It still has USB2 class audio support. But with custom drivers we can support the full-channel count of MHLink…

Hope that this clears it up...
Super awesome. This is excellent news!

Can you give us any info on MIO Console-esque control via applications running via standard USB class audio i.e. iOS/Android? Or will the only new platform supported be Windows?

Can't wait for this upgrade. Not quite what I hoped it would cost, but this will take my ULN-8s to a whole new level of functionality for me!
Old 15th September 2014
  #208
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tomteontour's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mh_bj View Post
Where is the contradiction? I said that USB2 is the baseline and that we were not ruling out USB3 at all or for any specific product. We have determined that we can provide USB3 for the 3d Upgrade, so we are doing that. It still has USB2 class audio support. But with custom drivers we can support the full-channel count of MHLink…

Hope that this clears it up...
Hej BJ,

really cool! Looking forward to it.

Not sure if you can answer to it but just curious :

1. Are there Plans you might offer OP Amp Upgrades on 2882 circuits as well ?
Would really like to bump my 2882 with the 3d to the future and would be
lovely if there was the chance to ramp up the I/O as well

2. As MH is going to offer Win Support : Will you offer your Plug In Suite in
VST as well ? ( Owning +DSP and MH Suite.. really happy with both )

Cheers
Old 16th September 2014
  #209
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hank alrich's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
MH should update us with some schedule on the roll out of the upgrade. We are kept in the dark.
Metric Halo does not provide schedules for upgrade developments or deliveries, and for very good reasons: they don't talk about stuff that isn't yet fully operational, at least in their own development labs, and they release stuff that works because instead of releasing a product to meet an upgrade schedule they bring it to market when it works like it's supposed to work
Old 16th September 2014
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hank alrich View Post
Metric Halo does not provide schedules for upgrade developments or deliveries, and for very good reasons: they don't talk about stuff that isn't yet fully operational, at least in their own development labs, and they release stuff that works because instead of releasing a product to meet an upgrade schedule they bring it to market when it works like it's supposed to work
well thats right - so in this case youll know that this was a fully working concept when they released the first details. So theyve had this working for quite some time
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